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Post by dm04 on May 16, 2017 21:38:43 GMT
Well... H-047c had a few cool and important quests there. The planet is beautiful, atmospheric and cool to explore. and it wasn't full of filler content. I was so happy while playing on that planet that it didn't even felt like i was playing the same game. Kadara was just like Eos but with a bunch of giant mushrooms. Hub worlds it is. I found the emptiness boring on H-047. I like the filler because it is entertaining to me to stop. Pop off a few rounds while taking a little outpost, then I move on. That is one of my complaints for the worlds in ME1. Most of the them were too boring and lifeless. I like having things to do that are not main quest related. H-047 have not enough. Everything else has too much. And well, I prefer the emptiness of H047 to this "hop out of Nomad every 5 yards", fight for 30seconds and hop back and continue the journey, because if you do not, the few enemies there will destroy the nomad with hand guns. Yay. Whatever, you prefer this few second interruptions, that is fine, but it has to be optional. You want to get out? Fine, but dont make me and let me just drive by. THAT would be the solution.
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Post by degs29 on May 17, 2017 5:16:37 GMT
That middle ground is a needle in the haystack. I was terrified when TW3 went open-world, but they nailed it (for the most part). Andromeda didn't, though it's not like they fell significantly short either. I just don't think the story carries momentum, and I fault mostly the open-world for that.
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Post by RamShep on May 20, 2017 5:30:35 GMT
My opinion on OP's question is that for the setting of ME, open world is not going to work. Why ? Because planets are too big - it's impossible to fill it up with meaningful content. Mostly boring scan/fetch quests and mooks to fight who are totally unrelated to any quests. Look at Skyrim and Fallout - both open world games but are limited to one map. For a space game, like ME with many planets, it's unreasonable to expect the same type of open world x6 (number of explorable planets).
I may be in the minority but I loved ME for its story/character development/companions/role-playing. I don't want it to become just another open world game, where the main attraction is leveling and griding.
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Post by Reorte on May 20, 2017 9:54:30 GMT
My opinion on OP's question is that for the setting of ME, open world is not going to work. Why ? Because planets are too big - it's impossible to fill it up with meaningful content. Mostly boring scan/fetch quests and mooks to fight who are totally unrelated to any quests. Look at Skyrim and Fallout - both open world games but are limited to one map. For a space game, like ME with many planets, it's unreasonable to expect the same type of open world x6 (number of explorable planets). I may be in the minority but I loved ME for its story/character development/companions/role-playing. I don't want it to become just another open world game, where the main attraction is leveling and griding. Six planets but they don't need to be as densely filled (probably why they went for ice and desert for three of the drivable ones) as Skyrim and Fallout, because you've got a much faster means of travel around them. The problem with them was that pretty much once you'd seen half a dozen points of interest you'd seen just about aeverything there was to see. It wasn't quite as bad as ME1's same three buildings but still suffered the same problem. The entire six planets had less non copy-paste content than Skyrim. It's not as if we got even a tiny bit close to being able to explore an entire planet. The main attraction of an open world game is exploring for me, not levelling and grinding, and with the "new galaxy" premise of Andromeda exploring should've been a key part of it. It doesn't have to get in the way of the story, and I don't think that it did.
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Post by griffith82 on May 22, 2017 3:32:32 GMT
I voted no. I like the open world design and enjoy the quests. I'd be fine with a middle ground but I'd prefer to stick with this design.
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Post by dm04 on May 22, 2017 7:50:57 GMT
"Magically find the perfect middleground"
I do not think it takes magic to find the perfect middleground. - reduce random encounters by at least 75% so we do not have to hop out the Nomad every 2 minutes - add some ME/H047 like planets with such encounters, tons of, only, so people who like it can have their continuous combat - make missions activable/deactivable like in Skyrim, so navpoints do not clutter our maps - split the maps into quadrants and let missions say, something like, go to Elaaden A5, without navpoint, we first have to move there before we see a navpoint, this way we are not distracted by sidemissions - improve conditionals for missions, so they only trigger when it is appropriate
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Post by SofaJockey on May 22, 2017 8:25:45 GMT
Of the 200 quests, it's probably the 60 'additional tasks' that I find most annoying (and not all of them).
In fairness, these are on a par with OT quests such as 'return locket' 'find Book of Plenix' etc etc
In MEA there were fewer 'jaw-dropping' quests at the top end of the quality scale, with real consequences that played out within the game.
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Post by force58 on May 22, 2017 11:30:59 GMT
Of the 200 quests, it's probably the 60 'additional tasks' that I find most annoying (and not all of them). In fairness, these are on a par with OT quests such as 'return locket' 'find Book of Plenix' etc etc In MEA there were fewer 'jaw-dropping' quests at the top end of the quality scale, with real consequences that played out within the game. I voted to keep the open world aspect as I enjoy the exploration between missions that I do without being bothered by the game itself. Linear games just don't do it for me anymore, well, except for Gears, and that's mainly because of the amazing characters in the game. I've finished the main story line in ME:A, and I love how the game adjusts the side missions knowing you've completed the main story. However, one side mission last night was seriously strange. It's the one where you meet Vetra on a planet, where I can't remember the name, and you simply have a moment talking about the vegetation and where Ryder pats her on the back at the end. Strange.
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Post by gplayer on May 22, 2017 12:13:50 GMT
When I replay ME1 nowadays I add the key binding that fastforwards at 10X speed. When do I use it? When I am in the Mako. If such a binding or mod were available in MEA, and someone created a mod to remove all laod screen and travel animations, I might just try playing it again. Dropping probes from orbit suited me just fine.
Now thats not to say I did not like open worlds in general. Trotting on my horse slowly through Toussaint taking in the sights and knowing the next adventure could be just round that bend in the road was amazing. Wasted many hours like that. But that was not ME. To me MEA is the result of some suit in an EA boardroom using buzzwords like 'open world' to gain approval without knowing what an open world needs to actually succeed.
Don't interpret this as me being TW3 fan. I liked their open world implementation but they had huge timesinks that served only to make the game much longer than it had to be. Making me put on a play. After I go through a week of missions to find Ciri I have to deal with the paranoid concerns of dwarven d-bags. It seemed like it would never end - everytime you think you are about to complete a task another contrived plot device slaps you in the face. Yes, I think their open world worked for them but TW3 is not a game MEA should have learned from.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 18:38:27 GMT
I personally love the open world formula, but it would be nice to see BioWare strike up that perfect balance between open-ended exploration and linear story-building and character development missions in ME:A2. I think they did pretty well with the balance already, as ME:A's characters and story are far more interesting and develop far more than ME1's cardboard cutout, static characters and tropy, done before, and fairly predictable main story arc, but its never bad to have perfect the balance whilst keeping the game fun and enjoyable. Complete abandonment of the open world system would not feel right for Andromeda, a game based so heavily on exploration. I mean, you are a damn Pathfinder after all. But then again, you can never please anyone. ME2 had too little exploration, now ME:A has too much.
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Post by SKAR on May 22, 2017 21:52:44 GMT
Open good.
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Post by colfoley on May 22, 2017 22:00:37 GMT
Of the 200 quests, it's probably the 60 'additional tasks' that I find most annoying (and not all of them). In fairness, these are on a par with OT quests such as 'return locket' 'find Book of Plenix' etc etc In MEA there were fewer 'jaw-dropping' quests at the top end of the quality scale, with real consequences that played out within the game. since you did seem to count that is still 140 quality quests. Which is well over fifty percent. And again the OT really had its fair share of fetching or mindless killing. But nope MEA is nothing but mmo fetch quests in an open world.
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Post by traks on May 22, 2017 22:15:24 GMT
I found the emptiness boring on H-047. I like the filler because it is entertaining to me to stop. Pop off a few rounds while taking a little outpost, then I move on. That is one of my complaints for the worlds in ME1. Most of the them were too boring and lifeless. I like having things to do that are not main quest related. H-047 have not enough. Everything else has too much. And well, I prefer the emptiness of H047 to this "hop out of Nomad every 5 yards", fight for 30seconds and hop back and continue the journey, because if you do not, the few enemies there will destroy the nomad with hand guns. Yay. Whatever, you prefer this few second interruptions, that is fine, but it has to be optional. You want to get out? Fine, but dont make me and let me just drive by. THAT would be the solution. You can just drive by. That being said, I agree that those random encounters are pretty useless. Mindlessly killing exiles without any story connection is not what going to a new galaxy should be about.
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Post by marshalmoriarty on May 23, 2017 2:35:42 GMT
You see, ordinarily I would have agreed since I disliked the move to more open world style in DAI and how terribly it was implemented there.
But in MEA, i feel like the open world questing and exploring was one of the game's great strengths. There was more attention paid to giving each quest NPCs to interact with, and just enough substance to make these things more than just 'go and pick up item, plant flag, kill enemies and read note on table that explains what was going on'. There's just more context, more backbone to the quests, even if they remain essentially minor affairs. And some do genuinely become interesting in a wider context which basically never happened in DAI. The Nomad's enjoyable handling and the increased use of traditional close up shots for dialogue etc also help greatly.
For me, it was the main missions and key areas like the vaults etc that were lacking. They often felt no different than the side missions, lacked the important feel they should have had. Not enough squad involvement, big decisions, and the major NPCs mostly disappointed and/or were underused. It had the feel of a Bethesda main plot, i.e awkwardly written and rushed like it was included more out of obligation than any great interest in telling a great story.
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Post by obatalaryder on May 26, 2017 10:24:16 GMT
Honestly the only gripe I had with the side quests/tasks was that towards the end of the game they really started throwing planet-hopping into every single one of them. It's pure annoyance if you're trying to complete a quest/task straight away.
I actually found exploring the open world very immersive and refreshing for a ME game.
I definitely wished the setup of the later planets were more like Habitat 7; carried more twists, etc. Getting to Elaaden you just knew Bioware was done.
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Post by fchopin on May 26, 2017 10:37:24 GMT
All they had to do was make the quests affect your colonies development. Have them grow and expand based off some of the quests instead of just giving AVP and viability. Colony expands you can open more cryo pods, it all would have tied together neatly and the quests would have been part of the colonization aspect of the story. People would have liked seeing their colonies grow, and would have wanted to do quests to see what effect they would have. Not saying every quest, but perhaps short questlines that culminated in improvements, or one longer quest that culminated in something. Would have also kept more quests contained to more planets, and cut down on the system hopping and cutscene watching. Just because something was implemented poorly doesn't make it a bad idea after the fact. They should have also added pockets like marshes, better caves, caverns to explore. Perhaps hints of what the planet used to look like, or will look like after the terraforming. Places you could get out of the Nomad and explore. I agree, you have good ideas that would have made the game better.
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Post by abaris on May 26, 2017 15:40:30 GMT
And well, I prefer the emptiness of H047 to this "hop out of Nomad every 5 yards", fight for 30seconds and hop back and continue the journey, because if you do not, the few enemies there will destroy the nomad with hand guns. Even in the first few levels I just hit the pedal and didn't take the bait of dropped in enemies every few yards. I simply refuse to do these useless generic fights whenever possible.
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Post by Pokemario on May 26, 2017 16:12:12 GMT
I think the open world was a good idea for the first game in the Andromeda galaxy. Still, I would have preferred it if they had invested more money on the writing team.
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Post by Ancient on May 26, 2017 17:25:40 GMT
My favorite open world games:
-The Witcher 3: obviously by far the best open world RPG with crazy amount of quality content. There is nothing even close to this game.
-Fallout New Vegas: not too big world, but big enough. But an amazing RPG.
-Gothic 3: quite big world with an excellent design. Too bad it was not finished, buggy. TW3 world design is influenced by this game.
-S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series: conceptually my favorite game. It has huge world (mainly SoC) divided into smaller maps. But different factions, mutants, anomalies, that realistic element, the best atmosphere ever. Completely unique game perfect for open world.
-Oblivion: it is repetitive like any Bethesda game, but still with decent amount of diverse content.
And no, open world is not a problem. Just need to be properly done, obviously. Like i already said, Andromeda problem is repetition. You already know what you are gonna do on the next planet.
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Post by dm04 on May 26, 2017 20:45:30 GMT
And well, I prefer the emptiness of H047 to this "hop out of Nomad every 5 yards", fight for 30seconds and hop back and continue the journey, because if you do not, the few enemies there will destroy the nomad with hand guns. Even in the first few levels I just hit the pedal and didn't take the bait of dropped in enemies every few yards. I simply refuse to do these useless generic fights whenever possible. Yah trying this as well, it is still anyoing when they shoot at the Nomad and the vehicle goes boom fast. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, then I got to fight this random generic trash.
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Post by finoderi on May 27, 2017 19:56:54 GMT
MEA was a mistake...
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Post by Hawke on May 27, 2017 21:30:15 GMT
I'd rather see large mission areas like in Dishonored or Thief (2014), instead of corridors or TES/Witcher open-world environment. It would allow to actually plan missions (currently it's running forward to the quest mark without thinking and watching a cut-scene/pressing "E") and let the game (environment, AI, etc.) to adapt to player's actions. I'd like to have less cut-scenes and more gameplay. If characters play a tabletop game, there should be a full simulation of it (like it was in Assassin's Creed III or The Witcher), if there's a bar fight, it shouldn't be a cut-scene or QTE, but a normal battle with specific weapon (or without it), etc.
I consider Habitat 7 and Remnant Vaults as the best in terms of level design in MEA. Also kett bases on Voeld and Eos, but these two are focused purely on combat.
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Post by abaris on May 27, 2017 22:14:01 GMT
I consider Habitat 7 and Remnant Vaults as the best in terms of level design in MEA. Also kett bases on Voeld and Eos, but these two are focused purely on combat. What's great about the vaults? Solve a few riddles or look them up on youtube, use your jumpjets, fight a few remnants, repeat. That's all there is to it. As generic as they come.
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Post by paradigm on May 27, 2017 22:50:28 GMT
I don't think you can accurately judge the impact of open world on the game without also factoring in the lack of a paragon/renegade system. Perhaps all those open world quests might not be so tedious or take the fun out of replays if you were given the opportunity to approach them differently or resolve them differently depending on the personality of the character you've chosen to play?
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Post by Hawke on May 27, 2017 23:51:37 GMT
I consider Habitat 7 and Remnant Vaults as the best in terms of level design in MEA. Also kett bases on Voeld and Eos, but these two are focused purely on combat. What's great about the vaults? Solve a few riddles or look them up on youtube, use your jumpjets, fight a few remnants, repeat. That's all there is to it. As generic as they come. Diversity of gameplay and non-linearity of progression, which I prefer to corridor-shooter-style of priority missions or simplicity of random encounters. Edit. Of course, it would be better with more responsive controls and stronger stealth and platforming elements.
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