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Post by henkiedepost on May 15, 2017 23:19:34 GMT
Open World in itself isn't a mistake. In fact, if Bio manages to pull if off it's a goldmine and rightfully so. When done wrong however it can kill a game. Bioware's track-record when it comes to Open Worlds in ME:A and DA:I places them somehwere in the middle of these extremes, with a slight leaning towards the negative side. Bio's Open Worlds so far just have a really big MMO feel to them. (And I hate MMO's.) I would therefore argue that in the case of ME:A and DA:I, Open World was a mistake. For the future however, I would say that things can change. Bioware needs to think really hard about the place Open World has in their games. Does everything resolve around exploring this World or is the World there to support the grand narrative? The first option is more in the line with DA:I and ME:A. The worlds are big but they are filled with very basic and repetitive content which have nothing to do with the story. The second option is what I would like to see. An Open World doesn't have to hold infinite amounts of content in order to work. In fact, that is when I think Open World becomes a burden instead of a pro. I want to see smaller, handcrafted worlds where things are able to change thanks to the players actions and where sidecontent fluently connects with the story. No more 'could you please scan 5 terminals for me pathfinder because I'm retarded and can't do it myself' bulls@#$. No more I want 16 types of minerals scattered over the cluster quests. No more unresponsive NPC's. It's no problem if one or two fetchquests find themselves in a game but I just have the feeling that every minute spend developing these things is a waste of time compared to expanding on quests and details which actually matter. Bioware should just ignore these fillers and design the world in a 'less is more' type of philosophy.
So this is what I think about Open Worlds:
Meh Open World - Extremely big world but devoid of content - Content that's there is MMO-tier. Fetchquests (collect minerals, scan terminals), repetitive quests (vaults, placing the outpost, receivers), quests with no actual consequence (water or oil decision on Eos, military or scientific outpost), etc. - Inactive NPC's just standing around forever. Some are literally standing still. Others are typing for eternity in a console (completely missing the keys by the way), others are bugged in a T-position. - repetitive enemies. Not only in the way of animals and factions, but even in the way of bosses and mini-bosses. (I'm looking at you architect.)
Awesome Open World - Smaller word where effort has been put into details. Just like when you go on a holiday, the best things to see are often the ones you don't expect. Same goes for exploring. Make places unique, create vistas to visit, scatter lore over the place and most of all: make everything as dynamic as possible. The players actions should have lasting consequences. Placing an outpost should change things. Activating a vault idem dito. - Sidecontent should serve the main story and should tie in with the status of the protagonist. Important decisions made there which change the world around you should play out in new options opening up in the world. I really hate the fact that after placing an outpost you're just... done. It just instantly spawns and that's it. Building the place would have actually been the coolest part for me. Making decisions about resource- and workforce allocations and dealing with the issues coming from these would have been infinitely more interesting than activating another vault for the 4th time. Also, by making the protagonist important, like the inquisitor or pathfinder, it's just silly to add so many quests which other, more specialised, people could simply have done for you. As an example I'd like to use the game Spore. I love the Space Age in that game but it gets boring really quick. Why? Because you're the only person in your entire empire getting shit done. Starting a war? It's only your ship against an entire civilisation. Ecological disaster? You have to fix it, no matter where you are. Otherwise everything goes to shit. Spice trade? No-one wants to trade except you it seems. DE-LE-GATE is the keyword here. No more shearing sheep or collection rocks. You have people for these things. Use them. - NPC's which actually feel alive. So no more idle animations which make NPC's look like they're the protagonist in a Bethesda game whilst waiting. We need people walking around. People having conversations or reacting to the protagonist. Day/Night cycle activities, more random encounters, crowds in busy spaces, work and progress etc. Make the world feel alive and interactive. Everything in my new outposts feels so sterile. I hate being there. There's nothing to do and everyone is just... standing there. I would love to see them actually work on establishing a home but whenever I check the outposts out I just get greeted by vacant stares from people standing in the exact same spot as the last time I visited the place. - Take the time to craft enemies for specific locations. Especially more bosses and minibosses. Why should I explore when I get a really big 'been there done that' feeling from taking one single look at the biodiversity of a new planet? Why are there literally no unique enemies in normal gameplay? The most 'unique' enemy you fight is an upped variant of a creature you've killed a dozen times before. A good Open World uses unique designs to catch players off-guard. Making the player adapt to new situations and enemies keeps everything fresh and interesting.
These are just my two cents on Open World but I really hope that Bioware can do something with these 'tips' (not that I'm an expert on anything here so hence the quotation marks) in the future.
EDIT: Removed some grammar mistakes and overal sloppyness in the post. Also added a few more sentences to elaborate on certain aspects of my post. The central theme, however, stays the same.
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havard
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Post by havard on May 15, 2017 23:22:46 GMT
Yeah. I have actually. Add in the obvious omissions of skin tone/face structure too while you're at it. That's what they are working on now, along with m/m romance improvements. Oh, I don't actually have a problem with M/M romances. I do have a problem with every Asari being a clone except for Shrek, and the 'other Asari' having shoulders 3 times wider than Ryder's. (Her horrible, uninspired, one-dimensional dialogue aside.) "I'm a Commando, I love Commandos, Commandos 4 lyfe, oh shit rose gardens! Nevermind, Commandos!"
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 23:25:54 GMT
That's what they are working on now, along with m/m romance improvements. Oh, I don't actually have a problem with M/M romances. I do have a problem with every Asari being a clone except for Shrek, and the 'other Asari' having shoulders 3 times wider than Ryder's. (Her horrible, uninspired, one-dimensional dialogue aside.) "I'm a Commando, I love Commandos, Commandos 4 lyfe, oh shit rose gardens! Nevermind, Commandos!" Yeah some of the guys want Jaal and are hoping the m/m include him as an option for Scott. It's one of the biggest focuses BW is dealing with atm. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great BW is doing this stuff, I just wish the broken story triggers were fixed. lol I agree the clones are wrong and the Asari stuff in general is too much. Enough is enough imo.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 23:26:44 GMT
I think ME:A went back to the games like BG2 and JE in terms of structure, and it is a good move. I like that. Voeld had a good AI story, but needed more life brought to it. Eladeen and Kadara should have been one planet instead of two with the Slums and the Wild Frontier and krogans, and some of the hop-hop-hop missions should have been better integrated into the flow of the story, so they started and continued with the main story progression and left out 2+ hops (i.e. Krogan's BFF, PeeBees mission beginning, Salarian Inquest - all good solid quests, but just a touch overboard on go there for a chat, now go to the other place for a chat... they need to mostly to stay on the same planet, with no more than one other planet to visit with a rare exception, like the movie night that is made special by that easter egg hunt) it would have been just right imo.
It's more like growing pains of relearning how to make the games they used to make and probably looking at a quest in separation, not enough of reviewing the journal as player sees it on each play through. It's nowhere near as bad as Inquisition, and I have never really forgotten or lost the main story or felt that Ryder did not get enough development, but I would hope they sequence side-quests better next time, providing there is the next time.
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Post by R'Shara on May 15, 2017 23:33:37 GMT
Actually, I meant the people who say they didn't encounter very many bugs and that for them, Andromeda was great. That's the thing. MEA IS great! Yet the ones with the biggest complaints have't even properly played it or enjoyed it. That's why that stuff is ignored. Once I got into the new lore, read the datapads and did a few sidequests, it struck me how big this game actually is, and it's pretty dark too at times! Sorry, you're still misunderstanding me. I'm talking about people who have managed to somehow play this game all the way through without encountering continuity bugs like the Efvra-Jaal-Akksul one, or the many many many others, so had a great experience. Not sure how they managed that. Wish I had. I have/had huge complaints and I've certainly played through all of it and trying to work my way through a 2nd play through with all the new bugs.
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Post by R'Shara on May 15, 2017 23:36:17 GMT
Open World in itself isn't a mistake. In fact, if Bio manages to pull if off right it's a goldmine. When done wrong however it can literally kill a game and looking at the past achievements of Bioware when it comes to Open World makes me a little bit sceptical. Especially when your RPG about characters and story sometimes feels like a fetchquest MMO. (And I hate MMO's.) For ME:A, and Inquisition, I would argue Open World was a mistake. For the future however, I would say that Bioware needs to think really hard about the place an Open World has in their games. Does everything resolve around exploring the world or is the world there to support the grand narrative? The first option is more in the line with DA:I and ME:A. The worlds are big but they are filled with very basic and repetitive content. The second option is what I would like to see. An Open World doesn't have to hold infinite amounts of content with no connection to the story whatsoever in order to work. In fact, that is when I think Open World becomes a burden instead of a pro. I want to see a smaller, handcrafted worlds where things are able to change thanks to the players actions and where sidecontent fluently connects with the story. No more 'could you please scan 5 terminals for me pathfinder because I'm retarded and can't do it myself' bulls@#$. No more I want 16 types of minerals scattered over the cluster quests. It's no problem if one or two collectible quests find themselves in a game but I just have the feeling that every minute spend developing these things is a waste of time compared to expanding on quests and details which actually matter. So this is what I think about Open Worlds: Meh Open World - Extremely big world but void of content - Content that's there is MMO-tier. Fetchquests (collect minerals, scan terminals), repetitive quests (vaults, placing the outpost, receivers), quests with no actual consequence (water or oil decision on Eos, military or scientific outpost), etc. - Inactive NPC's just standing around forever. Some are literally standing still. Others are typing for eternity in a console (completely missing the keys by the way), others are bugged in a T-position. - repetitive enemies. Not only in the way of animals and factions, but even in the way of bosses and mini-bosses. (I'm looking at you architect.) Awesome Open World - Smaller word where effort has been put into details. Just like when you go on a holiday, the best destinations are often the ones you don't expect. Same goes for exploring. Make places unique, create vistas to visit, scatter lore over the place and most of all: make everything as dynamic as possible. The players actions should have lasting consequences. Placing an outpost should change things. Activating a vault idem dito. No more NPC's and Squadmate which act as if nothing's happened even though you've just turned on a giant terraformer. - Sidecontent should serve the main story and should tie in with the status of the protagonist. Important decisions made there which change the world around you should play out in new options opening up in the world. I really hate the fact that after placing an outpost you're just... done. It just instantly spawns and that's it. Building the place would have actually been the coolest part for me. Making decisions about resource- and workforce allocations and dealing with the issues which come from these would have been infinitely more interesting than activating another vault for the 4th time. Also, by making the protagonist important, like the inquisitor or pathfinder, it's just silly to add so many quests which other, more specialised, people could simply have done for you. As an example I'd like to use the game Spore. I love the Space Age in that game but it gets boring really quick. Why? Because you're the only one doing things. Starting a war? It's your ship against another civ. Ecological disaster? You have to fix it, no matter where you are. Spice trade? No-one wants to trade except you it seems. DE-LE-GATE is the keyword here. No more shearing sheep or collection rocks. You have people for these things. Use them. - NPC's which actually feel alive. So no more idle animations like the protagonist in bethesda game whilst waiting for 12 hours but actual movements. People walking around. People having conversations or reacting to the protagonist. Day/Night cycle activities, more random encounters, crowds in busy spaces, etc. Make the world feel alive and interactive. Everything in my new outposts feels so sterile. I hate being there. There's nothing to do and everyone is just... goofing around. I would love to see them actually work on establishing a home but whenever I check the outposts out I just get greeted by vacant stares from people standing in prefabs. - Take the time to specifically craft enemies for specific locations. Especially more bosses and minibosses. Why should I explore when I get a really big 'been there done that' feeling from taking one single look at the biodiversity of a new planet? These are just my two cents on Open World but I really hope that Bioware can do something with these 'tips' (not that I'm an expert on anything here so hence the quotation marks) in the future. Agree so much with all of this. Why are the same 4 animals on every single stinking planet no matter how different?
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 23:37:21 GMT
That's the thing. MEA IS great! Yet the ones with the biggest complaints have't even properly played it or enjoyed it. That's why that stuff is ignored. Once I got into the new lore, read the datapads and did a few sidequests, it struck me how big this game actually is, and it's pretty dark too at times! Sorry, you're still misunderstanding me. I'm talking about people who have managed to somehow play this game all the way through without encountering continuity bugs like the Efvra-Jaal-Akksul one, or the many many many others, so had a great experience. Not sure how they managed that. Wish I had. I have/had huge complaints and I've certainly played through all of it and trying to work my way through a 2nd play through with all the new bugs. I know what you are saying, but I'm saying that stuff like that won't even be noticed because it's not important to those who find it, or they don't have a loud enough voice if they do point it out. As for those who don't get it at all, they just probably play the game without paying attention or have a rare perfect game. Not to mention before the greyed-out bug was fixed, some had no idea of the all the extra convos you could have, so inconsistencies wouldn't be caught. Also I doubt many go back or talk with some of the NPC's again either.
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Post by R'Shara on May 15, 2017 23:38:37 GMT
That's probably true.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 15, 2017 23:42:09 GMT
That's the thing. MEA IS great! Yet the ones with the biggest complaints have't even properly played it or enjoyed it. That's why that stuff is ignored. Once I got into the new lore, read the datapads and did a few sidequests, it struck me how big this game actually is, and it's pretty dark too at times! You've gone and verified who has played the game, have you? What method did you use for that? I've played it through, did every sidequest, read just about everything...it's a decent game on its own, but pretty shit compared to any of the original trilogy games with the exception fo the gunplay. The first time seeing all the lore in ME1 - beats the crap out of ME:A. The buildup to the suicide mission in ME2 - beats the crap out of ME:A. The overall atmosphere of 3 with the suspense of the imminent conclusion - beats the crap out of ME:A. (The ending notwithstanding.) Are you going to claim that I haven't played the game, or haven't played it 'properly?' (Are you the authority on approved methods of playing ME:A?) May I suggest doing a new game plus after the next patch or even dlc but just focus on the main story, relationship, and a few Heleus missions. After knowing how the story progressed, I had a better experience with the pacing without getting bogged down in the weeds. Story may not have the same stakes as ME2 or ME3 but it does make a more complete experience
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Post by havard on May 15, 2017 23:48:44 GMT
You've gone and verified who has played the game, have you? What method did you use for that? I've played it through, did every sidequest, read just about everything...it's a decent game on its own, but pretty shit compared to any of the original trilogy games with the exception fo the gunplay. The first time seeing all the lore in ME1 - beats the crap out of ME:A. The buildup to the suicide mission in ME2 - beats the crap out of ME:A. The overall atmosphere of 3 with the suspense of the imminent conclusion - beats the crap out of ME:A. (The ending notwithstanding.) Are you going to claim that I haven't played the game, or haven't played it 'properly?' (Are you the authority on approved methods of playing ME:A?) May I suggest doing a new game plus after the next patch or even dlc but just focus on the main story, relationship, and a few Heleus missions. After knowing how the story progressed, I had a better experience with the pacing without getting bogged down in the weeds. Story may not have the same stakes as ME2 or ME3 but it does make a more complete experience Not going anywhere near NG+ until I've got confirmation that it isn't broken still.
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Post by cespar on May 15, 2017 23:50:35 GMT
Oh, I don't actually have a problem with M/M romances. I do have a problem with every Asari being a clone except for Shrek, and the 'other Asari' having shoulders 3 times wider than Ryder's. (Her horrible, uninspired, one-dimensional dialogue aside.) "I'm a Commando, I love Commandos, Commandos 4 lyfe, oh shit rose gardens! Nevermind, Commandos!" Yeah some of the guys want Jaal and are hoping the m/m include him as an option for Scott. It's one of the biggest focuses BW is dealing with atm. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great BW is doing this stuff, I just wish the broken story triggers were fixed. lol I agree the clones are wrong and the Asari stuff in general is too much. Enough is enough imo. Until the fanbase finds another crush, then asari will continue to be too much. Wasn't PB like #1 on that romance poll on Reddit? But yeah, I just noticed the clones while playing yesterday. Everyone has Lexi's face
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 23:52:03 GMT
Yeah some of the guys want Jaal and are hoping the m/m include him as an option for Scott. It's one of the biggest focuses BW is dealing with atm. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great BW is doing this stuff, I just wish the broken story triggers were fixed. lol I agree the clones are wrong and the Asari stuff in general is too much. Enough is enough imo. Until the fanbase finds another crush, then asari will continue to be too much. Wasn't PB like #1 on that romance poll on Reddit? But yeah, I just noticed the clones while playing yesterday. Everyone has Lexi's face Yeah you can't unsee it once you see it!
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Post by projectpatdc on May 15, 2017 23:53:19 GMT
May I suggest doing a new game plus after the next patch or even dlc but just focus on the main story, relationship, and a few Heleus missions. After knowing how the story progressed, I had a better experience with the pacing without getting bogged down in the weeds. Story may not have the same stakes as ME2 or ME3 but it does make a more complete experience Not going anywhere near NG+ until I've got confirmation that it isn't broken still. NG+ was fixed in the 1.06 patch
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Post by ShadowAngel on May 16, 2017 0:00:38 GMT
Actually, I meant the people who say they didn't encounter very many bugs and that for them, Andromeda was great. That's the thing. MEA IS great! Yet the ones with the biggest complaints have't even properly played it or enjoyed it. That's why that stuff is ignored. Once I got into the new lore, read the datapads and did a few sidequests, it struck me how big this game actually is, and it's pretty dark too at times! Why finish something you dislike? Or force yourself to do so? One doesn't need to finish the game to be taken seriously, and it's quite laughable if that's how people think it should be played out. Not to mention, just looking at your consoles achievements and looking at the % that beat the game will give you that data. 20-30% will be the average as well, so should 70% of the fan base not be taken seriously? honestly, you can say this game is great, I'll say it's mediocre, I'll assume neither of our opinions will change. note: I'm part of that 20-30% that has finished the game and I'm the biggest fan of this franchise (and I'm sure everyone says that).
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 0:02:27 GMT
That's the thing. MEA IS great! Yet the ones with the biggest complaints have't even properly played it or enjoyed it. That's why that stuff is ignored. Once I got into the new lore, read the datapads and did a few sidequests, it struck me how big this game actually is, and it's pretty dark too at times! Why finish something you dislike? Or force yourself to do so? One doesn't need to finish the game to be taken seriously, and it's quite laughable if that's how people think it should be played out. Not to mention, just looking at your consoles achievements and looking at the % that beat the game will give you that data. 20-30% will be the average as well, so should 70% of the fan base not be taken seriously? honestly, you can say this game is great, I'll say it's mediocre, I'll assume neither of our opinions will change. note: I'm part of that 20-30% that has finished the game and I'm the biggest fan of this franchise (and I'm sure everyone says that). Again my post is referring to those who won't even play it properly unless demands are met, so the BW team is working on that instead of fixing story errors.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 16, 2017 0:09:32 GMT
I would say people blaming open world on the faults of the narrative is a mistake.
The linear content in this game is more than anything we got in Mass Effect 1 and about on Par with Mass Effect 2. The rest is optional.
It's more on the gamer to decide whether or not to engage in the padding and exist in the same open world map for hours.
Having over dramatic reactions to optional content not just by BSN but by the internet in general is why we can't have nice things. MEA can be a 20-30 hours mostly linear game or 80-120 game with open world gameplay. Good story and having open world options is not mutually exclusive either. Just perfect the story telling next time.
But don't complain about small side quests when they are optional especially when MEA has everything that the old games had. Just more
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 0:11:53 GMT
I would say people blaming open world on the faults of the narrative is a mistake. The linear content in this game is more than anything we got in Mass Effect 1 and about on Par with Mass Effect 2. The rest is optional. It's more on the gamer to decide whether or not to engage in the padding and exist in the same open world map for hours. Having over dramatic reactions to optional content not just by BSN but by other communities especially is why we can't have nice things. MEA can be a 20-30 hours mostly linear game or 80-120 game with open world gameplay. Good story and having open world options is not mutually exclusive either. Just perfect the story telling next time. But don't complain about small side quests when they are optional especially when MEA has everything that the old games had. Just more I remember the devs said no one would ever manage to complete everything. That requires a lot of thorough exploring. I gave up trying and as I said a few posts back, only do side/fetch stuff I get emails about. That with the main story quests and the LM's make the game much more fun and less straining. Probably why I'm on my 8th playthrough. I am playing what I want and not what's being shown on the map, and just enjoying it.
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Daft Arbiter
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Post by Daft Arbiter on May 16, 2017 1:28:15 GMT
I would say people blaming open world on the faults of the narrative is a mistake. The linear content in this game is more than anything we got in Mass Effect 1 and about on Par with Mass Effect 2. The rest is optional. It's more on the gamer to decide whether or not to engage in the padding and exist in the same open world map for hours. Having over dramatic reactions to optional content not just by BSN but by the internet in general is why we can't have nice things. MEA can be a 20-30 hours mostly linear game or 80-120 game with open world gameplay. Good story and having open world options is not mutually exclusive either. Just perfect the story telling next time. But don't complain about small side quests when they are optional especially when MEA has everything that the old games had. Just more Why not complain about it? People have done that for pretty much every single open world game to ever hit the market. Side content is what makes an open world an open world. It's not about dropping a person in a big empty space and saying "Behold, a questline." You're given a story, you're given main quests and sidequests and dungeons and all sorts of other goodies. You mix all those elements together and the result is a modern open-world game. If they can't do the side content, they shouldn't bet everything on running an open world.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 16, 2017 1:48:49 GMT
I would say people blaming open world on the faults of the narrative is a mistake. The linear content in this game is more than anything we got in Mass Effect 1 and about on Par with Mass Effect 2. The rest is optional. It's more on the gamer to decide whether or not to engage in the padding and exist in the same open world map for hours. Having over dramatic reactions to optional content not just by BSN but by the internet in general is why we can't have nice things. MEA can be a 20-30 hours mostly linear game or 80-120 game with open world gameplay. Good story and having open world options is not mutually exclusive either. Just perfect the story telling next time. But don't complain about small side quests when they are optional especially when MEA has everything that the old games had. Just more Why not complain about it? People have done that for pretty much every single open world game to ever hit the market. Side content is what makes an open world an open world. It's not about dropping a person in a big empty space and saying "Behold, a questline." You're given a story, you're given main quests and sidequests and dungeons and all sorts of other goodies. You mix all those elements together and the result is a modern open-world game. If they can't do the side content, they shouldn't bet everything on running an open world. I'm just contributing to the conversation. I agree that side content and tasks are very much part of the open world. I enjoy what we are given and I think it can also be improved. People are complaining that the optional side content and having an open world is holding the game back. I'm saying that MEA's main story content and main side missions are mostly linear and don't rely on the open world so open world is not the issue. People also complain about content that is optional when the main content is just as "meaty" and good as the OT games.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by kino on May 16, 2017 2:14:24 GMT
Find the middle ground. I love BioWare's "open world" concept and the idea of traveling around in them, exploring them. However, story and character development should also be a focus, which I feel handled pretty well in ME:A.
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Post by Furisco on May 16, 2017 2:39:05 GMT
Give us a bunch of planets like H-047c instead of planets like Eos.
That planet was the perfect middle ground.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on May 16, 2017 2:46:24 GMT
Give us a bunch of planets like H-047c instead of planets like Eos. That planet was the perfect middle ground. I say kadara is. H-047 was rather boring and nothing there. Havarl is too small and compact. I don't like how you have to travel on foot there. Kadara is the perfect middle ground of a planet for me.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 16, 2017 2:56:44 GMT
Give us a bunch of planets like H-047c instead of planets like Eos. That planet was the perfect middle ground. I say kadara is. H-047 was rather boring and nothing there. Havarl is too small and compact. I don't like how you have to travel on foot there. Kadara is the perfect middle ground of a planet for me. I've fallen for Voeld. Three friendly towns/bases in one map, multiple large Kett bases, Angaran Ruins, sliding across the ice, taking the cold into perspective when planning an attack. The only thing I wish is there were more crazy wildlife to encounter. I wish vehicle's and larger tanks or exotic animals would be involved in vehicle battles to fill in the gaps. I also wish the outposts gave new missions but as an overworld, it's really cool. I wish/hope Destiny 2 has maps with small Hub areas like Andromeda does. There's a lot that game could learn from this. But I also wish Andromeda had more overworld bosses like destiny does now besides just Architects I'm still hoping dlc will expand on the current game and allow us to visit Estraaja.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on May 16, 2017 3:05:52 GMT
Open World in itself isn't a mistake. In fact, if Bio manages to pull if off right it's a goldmine. When done wrong however it can literally kill a game and looking at the past achievements of Bioware when it comes to Open World makes me a little bit sceptical. Especially when your RPG about characters and story sometimes feels like a fetchquest MMO. (And I hate MMO's.) For ME:A, and Inquisition, I would argue Open World was a mistake. For the future however, I would say that Bioware needs to think really hard about the place an Open World has in their games. Does everything resolve around exploring the world or is the world there to support the grand narrative? The first option is more in the line with DA:I and ME:A. The worlds are big but they are filled with very basic and repetitive content. The second option is what I would like to see. An Open World doesn't have to hold infinite amounts of content with no connection to the story whatsoever in order to work. In fact, that is when I think Open World becomes a burden instead of a pro. I want to see a smaller, handcrafted worlds where things are able to change thanks to the players actions and where sidecontent fluently connects with the story. No more 'could you please scan 5 terminals for me pathfinder because I'm retarded and can't do it myself' bulls@#$. No more I want 16 types of minerals scattered over the cluster quests. It's no problem if one or two collectible quests find themselves in a game but I just have the feeling that every minute spend developing these things is a waste of time compared to expanding on quests and details which actually matter. --Cropped for Length-- I agree, I think BioWare has done semi open world well before with Mass Effect 1, but at the same time I think it was improved a lot with the Hammerhead missions in Mass Effect 2. Even though it had open world elements they were small enough to have some structure which with how open BioWare makes their stories you need the other areas of the game to have structure and open world games don't have any.
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Post by gel214th on May 16, 2017 3:31:11 GMT
Some areas on ME:A felt big for the sake of being big. There was a ton of repetition, every planet had you more or less doing the same thing over and over. This game felt more like a 1990s MMORPG than a 2017 story driven experience. It truly did not feel like it came from the same team that brought us ME 1-3, or DA:O. Even when it tried to be compelling, it just didn't feel as riveting as the other games in the series. I can't think of a quest that affected me the way Mordin's, or the choice of who dies by nuke, Or the quiet sadness of the sacrifice on Omega...Hell playing ME:A made me want to reinstall ME3 and give it another run through. And ME:A isn't a bad game at all. But in a way it feels like "Bioware-Lite" if you understand. I didn't do two planets before completing the main quest. And I'm thinking I will wait for some player mods to be released before I go back to complete them. I already bypass the tedium of mining and that boring excuse for "exploration" ( as gorgeous as the galaxy maps and planets are). I felt Strike Teams should allow us to go to a mission map with our team and fight. That would be DLC I'd pay for because right now, the best part of ME:A for me are the graphics and the combat. I'm thinking the next game that Bioware creates will skip everything else and just be a straight multiplayer only shoot em up, and at the end of each match you pull a handle to get loot. Or you can skip the matches and just pay to pull the handle at 10 bucks a pop Heeeey! Everyone's a winner heeeeyyy!!!
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