Reorte
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 172 Likes: 144
inherit
7714
0
144
Reorte
172
Apr 16, 2017 15:08:37 GMT
April 2017
reorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Reorte on May 28, 2017 11:08:55 GMT
I consider Habitat 7 and Remnant Vaults as the best in terms of level design in MEA. Also kett bases on Voeld and Eos, but these two are focused purely on combat. What's great about the vaults? Solve a few riddles or look them up on youtube, use your jumpjets, fight a few remnants, repeat. That's all there is to it. As generic as they come. Agreed. They're also so samey that it's easy to get turned around, and the whole layout screams "video game level!" rather than anything anyone would've ever built. I've got a degree of willing suspension of disbelief in that area but they took it too far. I was rather releaved that only the Eos one was the size it was.
|
|
bizantura
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 407 Likes: 411
inherit
1133
0
Nov 23, 2024 16:41:26 GMT
411
bizantura
407
Aug 22, 2016 17:45:56 GMT
August 2016
bizantura
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by bizantura on May 28, 2017 12:48:22 GMT
For me, the open world = the saving grace of MEA. So no, keep it in and weave an interesting story around it. Well written characters are a bonus but the RPG system around them in this weak cast is so gutted, I wonder what their function is. A first person shooter would be cheaper to make lesser VA's needed.
|
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on May 28, 2017 13:19:52 GMT
I wonder what their function is. Apart from Drack, Peebee or Cora, I keep wondering myself. These three at least kill the occasional enemy. Which is even more important, since most enemies make a beeline for the player. A nuisance that's not a Bioware exclusive, but prevalent in many games these days. Probably to create some false sense of urgency that reduces companions to window dressing.
|
|
auu
N2
Posts: 178 Likes: 203
inherit
3043
0
203
auu
178
Jan 28, 2017 16:18:30 GMT
January 2017
auu
|
Post by auu on May 28, 2017 13:51:36 GMT
I liked the exploration in ME1 for the first few play throughs. After that I just drove from the drop point to wherever the side mission was.
When ME2 (and 3) came along, I got attached to the mission structure. People use corridor shooter as an insult, but I enjoy them. It makes missions feel more like a puzzle you have to solve. Not only that but there's more character in these missions. You're not just coming across a group of randoms on a map doing god knows what--everything lends itself to story.
|
|
thedarkprince
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: xxPSCxx
Posts: 198 Likes: 313
inherit
1931
0
313
thedarkprince
198
November 2016
thedarkprince
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
xxPSCxx
|
Post by thedarkprince on May 28, 2017 15:37:57 GMT
Yes. I am currently replaying the original trilogy, and shocked by how much Andromeda doesn't feel like a Mass Effect game. The series should not be open world, because it those off the pacing of the plot and general feel of the story.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
Nov 27, 2024 22:08:05 GMT
9,680
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,065
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on May 28, 2017 16:22:39 GMT
I wonder what their function is. Apart from Drack, Peebee or Cora, I keep wondering myself. These three at least kill the occasional enemy. Which is even more important, since most enemies make a beeline for the player. A nuisance that's not a Bioware exclusive, but prevalent in many games these days. Probably to create some false sense of urgency that reduces companions to window dressing. Am I right that companion weapon damage is nerfed in MEA, the same as it was in earlier ME games?
|
|
Reorte
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 172 Likes: 144
inherit
7714
0
144
Reorte
172
Apr 16, 2017 15:08:37 GMT
April 2017
reorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Reorte on May 28, 2017 16:31:04 GMT
Apart from Drack, Peebee or Cora, I keep wondering myself. These three at least kill the occasional enemy. Which is even more important, since most enemies make a beeline for the player. A nuisance that's not a Bioware exclusive, but prevalent in many games these days. Probably to create some false sense of urgency that reduces companions to window dressing. Am I right that companion weapon damage is nerfed in MEA, the same as it was in earlier ME games? It certainly feels like it. The most use I've had with companions in Andromeda is if I manage to get a shield boost from Cora. I've always viewed them as being there more for the company than aiding the fight in any way, although biotic combos provide a bit of an exception. The biggest exception though was back in ME1 on Novaria, on the drive to Peak 15. I had Tali with me, and I was getting out of the Mako to shoot everything on foot for the extra XP. She went charging off after the geth, I was grumbling about companions going down in no time, except that time she tore through them all before I'd got more than a couple of shots off with my sniper rifle. I never did manage to get a repeat of that unfortunately.
|
|
Dabrikishaw
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
Posts: 182 Likes: 204
inherit
1347
0
204
Dabrikishaw
182
Aug 29, 2016 20:21:41 GMT
August 2016
dabrikishaw
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
|
Post by Dabrikishaw on May 28, 2017 16:32:52 GMT
Bioware and Bethesda make functionally different and incompatible Western RPG's. People like Bethedsa games (and New Vegas) because their games allow an incredible amount of interaction within their everchanging world, which in turns makes them more immersed in the grand sandbox they're given to roleplay in. Bioware gained a fandom entirely due to their NPC and party member character writing, and their roleplaying is based about character interaction as a result. I like Inquisition and Andromeda, but I see that Bioware's strengths aren't being served well by following in Bethesda's footsteps.
|
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on May 28, 2017 16:45:31 GMT
I like Inquisition and Andromeda, but I see that Bioware's strengths aren't being served well by following in Bethesda's footsteps. Their weaknesses are more showing with the open world approach. Yet it had always been there. The statuesque NPCs, not moving one bit throughout the whole game. It was the same on the Citadel in ME2 and 3, it's more obvious with MEA, or DAI for that matter. The worlds they created are sterile and don't even rise up to Morrowind level, which was pretty static. It may have been even more obvious with DAI where your camp guards didn't even react when there was a fight right under their noses. Bethesda has other weaknesses, such as the NPC population not reacting to your achievements, but at least the NPCs pick up arms when there's an obvious threat.
|
|
inherit
3122
0
1,921
projectpatdc
1,811
January 2017
projectpatdc
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
projectpat06
|
Post by projectpatdc on May 28, 2017 16:51:34 GMT
I like Inquisition and Andromeda, but I see that Bioware's strengths aren't being served well by following in Bethesda's footsteps. Their weaknesses are more showing with the open world approach. Yet it had always been there. The statuesque NPCs, not moving one bit throughout the whole game. It was the same on the Citadel in ME2 and 3, it's more obvious with MEA, or DAI for that matter. The worlds they created are sterile and don't even rise up to Morrowind level, which was pretty static. It may have been even more obvious with DAI where your camp guards didn't even react when there was a fight right under their noses. Bethesda has other weaknesses, such as the NPC population not reacting to your achievements, but at least the NPCs pick up arms when there's an obvious threat. So improve the open world features as opposed to going back to boring linear levels with no replay value. By replay value I mean being able to jump in and enjoy the gameplay mechanics. Not replaying the same story levels over and over again. That's beyond boring and poor gameplay design when there's no freedom
|
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on May 28, 2017 16:57:51 GMT
So improve the open world features as opposed to going back to boring linear levels with no replay value. By replay value I mean being able to jump in and enjoy the gameplay mechanics. Not replaying the same story levels over and over again. That's beyond boring and poor gameplay design when there's no freedom I have as little hope of Bioware doing that as I have of Bethesda finally creating a NPC population not insulting you every step of your way. Bioware never had mobile NPCs. They always resembled telegraph poles. Bethesda always had NPCs not reacting to player achievements. I admit that the exploration element in recent Bioware games adds a new level to the game, but I'm not holding my breath for them improving on that element.
|
|
inherit
3122
0
1,921
projectpatdc
1,811
January 2017
projectpatdc
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
projectpat06
|
Post by projectpatdc on May 28, 2017 17:39:49 GMT
So improve the open world features as opposed to going back to boring linear levels with no replay value. By replay value I mean being able to jump in and enjoy the gameplay mechanics. Not replaying the same story levels over and over again. That's beyond boring and poor gameplay design when there's no freedom I have as little hope of Bioware doing that as I have of Bethesda finally creating a NPC population not insulting you every step of your way. Bioware never had mobile NPCs. They always resembled telegraph poles. Bethesda always had NPCs not reacting to player achievements. I admit that the exploration element in recent Bioware games adds a new level to the game, but I'm not holding my breath for them improving on that element. Bioware has also never made an open world mass Effect game nor a game of this size before. It was also done by their Bteam with a plagued development cycle. Just because they had very static NPCs doesn't mean they should just throw in the tower on open world. Make NPCs more dynamic. Have more bounty quests like Witcher 3. Give your side quests proper conclusions. Have rare rewards for doing missions. Focus a little more on the smaller details that brings worlds alive like more diverse wildlife, dynamic land vehicles, vehicle combat, and more overworld bosses. Go back to giving people more renegade options as an older Scott or Sara and build upon the decisions made in the first game to give those decisions more weight increasing replay value. And fine tune the writing and animations and polish. It's really not all doom and gloom like people say. And there's no reason to get rid of exploration or their current model. Build upon and perfect, don't gut it. That's how you make a masterpiece game instead of just another good game. ME2 is a great game for its core story and decent combat but it's far from ever being a masterpiece compared to the likes of Red Dead Redemption, Zelda BOTW, Horizon Zero Dawn, and Witcher 3. It doesn't even hold up to the linear masterpieces like Uncharted 2 or the last of us If you're going to make a space epic about exploring new worlds, you need exploration. Not linear levels playing space cop
|
|
Reorte
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 172 Likes: 144
inherit
7714
0
144
Reorte
172
Apr 16, 2017 15:08:37 GMT
April 2017
reorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Reorte on May 28, 2017 17:41:18 GMT
Their weaknesses are more showing with the open world approach. Yet it had always been there. The statuesque NPCs, not moving one bit throughout the whole game. It was the same on the Citadel in ME2 and 3, it's more obvious with MEA, or DAI for that matter. The worlds they created are sterile and don't even rise up to Morrowind level, which was pretty static. It may have been even more obvious with DAI where your camp guards didn't even react when there was a fight right under their noses. Bethesda has other weaknesses, such as the NPC population not reacting to your achievements, but at least the NPCs pick up arms when there's an obvious threat. So improve the open world features as opposed to going back to boring linear levels with no replay value. By replay value I mean being able to jump in and enjoy the gameplay mechanics. Not replaying the same story levels over and over again. That's beyond boring and poor gameplay design when there's no freedom Difficult. The Bethesda approach is technically more difficult (probably why people go on about bugs in Bethesda games, and it's the reason they have much bigger save files). The more open world it is the harder it is to fit in anything that really needs tight scripting, especially if you're not going to rather artificially close off areas until it's convenient for the plot to take you there. The Witcher managed that to a degree, but still had relatively telegraph pole-like NPCs a lot of the time, and nowhere near the degree of interaction with the world. I'm sure it's all technically doable, but takes time and effort, and when you're owned by a company like EA who'd rather just crank something simple out frequently until it runs dry... Quality doesn't pay off well enough, alas. Every now and then something raises the bar enough (otherwise we'd still be playing games with low res 8 bit sprites), no doubt to the curse of some companies like EA who now have to put some effort in to stay in the race, and to the delight of others who relish the new opportunities, although the more complex things get the bigger you need to be to even stand a chance of exploiting them.
|
|
inherit
3122
0
1,921
projectpatdc
1,811
January 2017
projectpatdc
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
projectpat06
|
Post by projectpatdc on May 28, 2017 17:47:14 GMT
So improve the open world features as opposed to going back to boring linear levels with no replay value. By replay value I mean being able to jump in and enjoy the gameplay mechanics. Not replaying the same story levels over and over again. That's beyond boring and poor gameplay design when there's no freedom Difficult. The Bethesda approach is technically more difficult (probably why people go on about bugs in Bethesda games, and it's the reason they have much bigger save files). The more open world it is the harder it is to fit in anything that really needs tight scripting, especially if you're not going to rather artificially close off areas until it's convenient for the plot to take you there. The Witcher managed that to a degree, but still had relatively telegraph pole-like NPCs a lot of the time, and nowhere near the degree of interaction with the world. I'm sure it's all technically doable, but takes time and effort, and when you're owned by a company like EA who'd rather just crank something simple out frequently until it runs dry... Quality doesn't pay off well enough, alas. Every now and then something raises the bar enough (otherwise we'd still be playing games with low res 8 bit sprites), no doubt to the curse of some companies like EA who now have to put some effort in to stay in the race, and to the delight of others who relish the new opportunities, although the more complex things get the bigger you need to be to even stand a chance of exploiting them. Well considering MEA is an EA game, I would say it's pretty damn good. I'm never going to expect the games to be Rockstar quality because it's rare for companies to want that level of detail. But I also don't want to a gutted, streamlined mass effect ever again. Just build upon the current MEA assets. The world, ship, armor, and combat design is amazing. They really just need to put that effort into the alien wildlife, side quests, dynamic NPCs, and vehicle combat and we would have a really fun game. Writing is subjective
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
457
0
Nov 27, 2024 22:39:44 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 27, 2024 22:39:44 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 20:51:23 GMT
I'm not a fan of open world concept. Huge empty spaces that get filled with mostly second rate content. MEA doesn't do it better or worse than any other game, in my limited experience. So much time wasted in traveling
|
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on May 28, 2017 20:58:34 GMT
MEA doesn't do it better or worse than any other game, in my limited experience. So much time wasted in traveling It certainly has one of the more boring approaches as compared to other open world games. There's virtually nothing to discover, no NPCs roaming the land, no peple to meet and no development. Other games using open world show that something has changed since your last visit on the particular map or cell. It's not entirely fair, but since Bioware has chosen to introduce the outpost system, let's have a look at FO4 vs MEA. In FO4 people are actually toiling the land, manning the shops and are everything but static. In MEA, your outpost pops out of thin air and stays that way till the end of the game. No development, no option to add something to it. The NPCs not moving an inch.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
47
0
Nov 27, 2024 22:39:44 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 27, 2024 22:39:44 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 10:46:56 GMT
As with everything the extremes are always wrong. Outright eliminating open-world would deny us of the exploration element and would reduce the game to the shooting galleries of ME2 and ME3. I really don't want those back. I admit though that also the open-world result in a loss of focus on the mains storyline and many players tends to become burned out and fatigued.
The best approach is something in the middle a sort of semi-open world which ME1 was.
ME1 made a clear cut separation between plot worlds (Noveria, Eden Prime, Feros etc.) and secondary quests worlds (all the others).
In the first type of worlds you really don't have open world exploration. You could of course explore hubs and the levels which were big, doing secondary quests in them connected with the main plotline and driving the Mako in some portion of it but ultimately the levels were still quite focused on your objectives.
The second type of world instead opened up and you could explore them at your pace doing the secondary quests and find random things, minerals and events to spice up the exploration there.
In conclusion they should do the exact same thing. Have specific designed plot worlds with focused narrative and limited exploration while on the other hand have a couple of optional worlds filled with secondary quests and narratives not related with the main plot. These worlds can be dedicated to resource gathering, full exploration and secondary questing.
This is my recipe to better integrate open-world in this game. We need it but it should serve the narrative and not viceversa.
|
|
CriticalFailure
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: CriticalFailure0
Posts: 80 Likes: 62
inherit
1661
0
Sept 23, 2016 16:57:53 GMT
62
CriticalFailure
80
Sept 23, 2016 16:42:49 GMT
September 2016
criticalfailure
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
CriticalFailure0
|
Post by CriticalFailure on May 29, 2017 11:46:26 GMT
So improve the open world features as opposed to going back to boring linear levels with no replay value. By replay value I mean being able to jump in and enjoy the gameplay mechanics. Not replaying the same story levels over and over again. That's beyond boring and poor gameplay design when there's no freedom What does the format have to do with replay value? You end up doing the same things over and over regardless. I'm happier watching a cutscene I've already seen before, rather than driving around a desert or travelling all around the galaxy looking for turian popcorn again. And what's freedom anyway? Driving to point A by yourself instead of just showing up there? Personally, I couldn't care less about open vs closed world, as long as it's fun. And Bioware's model of open world isn't. It's easy to ask for improvements, but if you keep proving that you suck at something... maybe move on?
|
|
kumazan
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 772 Likes: 1,553
inherit
2088
0
1,553
kumazan
772
Nov 14, 2016 19:51:29 GMT
November 2016
kumazan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by kumazan on May 29, 2017 12:06:20 GMT
MEA doesn't do it better or worse than any other game, in my limited experience. So much time wasted in traveling It certainly has one of the more boring approaches as compared to other open world games. There's virtually nothing to discover, no NPCs roaming the land, no peple to meet and no development. Other games using open world show that something has changed since your last visit on the particular map or cell. It's not entirely fair, but since Bioware has chosen to introduce the outpost system, let's have a look at FO4 vs MEA. In FO4 people are actually toiling the land, manning the shops and are everything but static. In MEA, your outpost pops out of thin air and stays that way till the end of the game. No development, no option to add something to it. The NPCs not moving an inch. That's not a problem with open world per se, but with how BioWare have designed their worlds, no matter how open or narrow they were, since at least Jade Empire. Everything is static, and you don't get to see much development no matter whether some of the events of the game would justify such development. It was one of my concerns before release and it turned out to be warranted. For some reason, BioWare struggles to bring their (otherwise immersing and extremely interesting lorewise) worlds alive.
|
|