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Post by maximusarael020 on May 17, 2017 6:23:30 GMT
That's... not a good analogy. At all. Because currently MEA2 isn't a product to sell. It's not competing with anything. It's still at least 3-4 years before it would ever be released. No one is going to "source" Mass Effect from anyone else. And customers don't care about a product 3-4 years down the line. They care about the product out now. MEA. Which is why Bioware has been clear about the schedule for patches and what will be in them. That's the communication customers need currently. DLC will be communicated closer to when it's ready. It doesn't need to be advertised before. Fallout 4 didn't advertise "Nukaworld DLC" before it was almost ready for release. It just doesn't matter until it's ready. If nobody thinks its going to exist they'll never bother to check for it to see if they can buy it dude. Im glad you don't run a business. There's this thing called advertising? You do that when you want to sell a product. So if people are like "Oh, no! What if there's no MEA:2?" and then when it's closer to completion advertises it, then customers will know it exists. That's the entire purpose of advertising.
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Post by nastrodamus on May 17, 2017 7:33:52 GMT
To clear this up Mass Effect development is on Hiatus. as any game would be after development. when a game studio says that they mean that no new game under that property is currently under development. However, fixes, Patches, and DLC are part of what’s called extended support or after release support. I can see why Bioware is not ready to start on a ME:A 2 yet they have to fix this game. Plus this “Dylan” game they are pinning everything on and Dragon Age 4 is in a pre-production phase and Austin is always working on SWTOR content. So right now they don’t have the time or a studio to head up a new ME title. BioWare Montreal failed as a dev studio as a support studio will still be working on Andromeda but not at a fast clip
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 17, 2017 9:46:44 GMT
If nobody thinks its going to exist they'll never bother to check for it to see if they can buy it dude. Im glad you don't run a business. There's this thing called advertising? You do that when you want to sell a product. So if people are like "Oh, no! What if there's no MEA:2?" and then when it's closer to completion advertises it, then customers will know it exists. That's the entire purpose of advertising. So they havent shot down the Hiatus rumour because they want to surprise you later with Advertising? Thats either delusional or a really stupid plan.
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Post by abaris on May 17, 2017 9:51:55 GMT
So they havent shot down the Hiatus rumour because they want to surprise you later with Advertising? Thats either delusional or a really stupid plan. Apart from the fact that anything coming from any major company is screened by their PR departments. It will always be noncommital. And in this case it's done it's job. In my opinion, and having worked more than two decades in a field closely related to PR, the EA statements are pretty much confirming the rumors. At least for the time being and until they have a valid strategy where they want to go from here.
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Post by goishen on May 17, 2017 11:42:51 GMT
This is one area where I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle.
Kotaku might be trash, but still y'all endlessly bring up that it's trash, and thus are still reading it. Thus, EA/BioWare can hit that site at any time and say, "Hey, you remember that stuff we said about ME? It's back on." Then you'll have the people calling Kotaku hacks right now saying, "See?! I told you so!" and swearing by Kotaku like it was the bible.
So, I mean, I think it's time for EA to cool their jets on ME just to see where they stand, but where MEA left them standing, it's not in a great place. It's on an icy road with nothing around but a Tom Horton's that you just can't get into without slipping and busting your ass 17,000 times.
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Post by darkway1 on May 17, 2017 11:52:08 GMT
Lol. Half the internet thinks Mass Effect is dead. If it wasnt BioWare would be in a rush to let people know DLC was still inbound and they should keep there wallets ready. So nothing? Nothing that verifies the Kotaku article? As I thought. Look, here's the Q4 Earnings Report from EA. Money. Talks. More so than some speculation from Kotaku. Thanks for posting,it's plain to see the terrifying reality the Bioware brand faces. Digital sales (DLC/Map-pack,Micro-transactions etc) are the obvious driving force behind EA's business model,which is why EA's game portfolio is multi-player focused and hence why Bioware's future secret IP is described as an "online service". Story driven Bioware games COST too much to develop,require too much development TIME and don't bring in the type of MONEY EA wants (when compared to other EA franchises),which makes the concept of a franchise like Mass Effect being put on hiatus a real possibility.......it's sad that a story driven Bioware RPG can't compete with the likes of.........Madden,Fifa,Plants vs Zombies,Battlefield 2,Battlefront2,Titan Fall on and and on.
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Post by goishen on May 17, 2017 11:56:50 GMT
Right, two - three years, the time between ME1, 2, and 3, is way below five years.
Go team.
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Post by setokaiba on May 17, 2017 12:01:58 GMT
Right, two - three years, the time between ME1, 2, and 3, is way below five years. Go team. I mean games are harder to make today and this one was build from the ground up sooo
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Post by goishen on May 17, 2017 12:06:41 GMT
That is very true. Your point? I'm still missing it. So, what, you think that they were working on mechanics of the game up until launch? I can guarantee you they weren't.
If MEA had launched without a hitch you prolly wouldn't have heard about any of this. BioWare would've just gone along their merry way tweeting out "We just finished one!" whenever someone asked for more.
No, something happened.
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Post by Arcian on May 17, 2017 12:24:59 GMT
Until Kotaku gets named sources, their info is just as good as me saying "I have inside sources that say that President Trump eats goldfish crackers and frosting every day for breakfast. Five unnamed sources close to the White House confirm." Great journalism, there. That's not how journalism works.
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Post by maximusarael020 on May 17, 2017 12:44:36 GMT
There's this thing called advertising? You do that when you want to sell a product. So if people are like "Oh, no! What if there's no MEA:2?" and then when it's closer to completion advertises it, then customers will know it exists. That's the entire purpose of advertising. So they havent shot down the Hiatus rumour because they want to surprise you later with Advertising? Thats either delusional or a really stupid plan. They haven't shot down there rumor because they already voiced their support for the game, franchise, asks studio to the investors, and correcting the people who believe the rumor doesn't matter. They'll advertise DLC when it's ready to come out, so that'll squash the "no DLC" rumor, and then closer to MEA:2 release they'll announce that game's development, so that'll squash the rumor about no MEA:2. I think you are vastly overestimating how many people are following the story or what impact it has on the franchise.
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Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 17, 2017 12:54:50 GMT
This hiatus thing makes me laugh a lot, the game is barely 2 months old, still too early to announce dlc & defo too early to announce ME:A2, the fact that staff have been moved from this project to another, is just standard procedure, it happened when DA:I was completed & no-one raised a fuss, this is, in my opinion, nothing more than a storm in a tea cup & I'll just wait & see what happens. All I've got to say on this matter for now tbh this is how I' m handling it as well.
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Post by griffith82 on May 17, 2017 12:56:06 GMT
So nothing? Nothing that verifies the Kotaku article? As I thought. Look, here's the Q4 Earnings Report from EA. Money. Talks. More so than some speculation from Kotaku. Thanks for posting,it's plain to see the terrifying reality the Bioware brand faces. Digital sales (DLC/Map-pack,Micro-transactions etc) are the obvious driving force behind EA's business model,which is why EA's game portfolio is multi-player focused and hence why Bioware's future secret IP is described as an "online service". Story driven Bioware games COST too much to develop,require too much development TIME and don't bring in the type of MONEY EA wants (when compared to other EA franchises),which makes the concept of a franchise like Mass Effect being put on hiatus a real possibility.......it's sad that a story driven Bioware RPG can't compete with the likes of.........Madden,Fifa,Plants vs Zombies,Battlefield 2,Battlefront2,Titan Fall on and and on. I'm sorry I don't see anything there to verify your claim that Bioware or ME did poorly. Everything I see shows a upward income.
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Post by cypherj on May 17, 2017 13:16:03 GMT
So nothing? Nothing that verifies the Kotaku article? As I thought. Look, here's the Q4 Earnings Report from EA. Money. Talks. More so than some speculation from Kotaku. Thanks for posting,it's plain to see the terrifying reality the Bioware brand faces. Digital sales (DLC/Map-pack,Micro-transactions etc) are the obvious driving force behind EA's business model,which is why EA's game portfolio is multi-player focused and hence why Bioware's future secret IP is described as an "online service". Story driven Bioware games COST too much to develop,require too much development TIME and don't bring in the type of MONEY EA wants (when compared to other EA franchises),which makes the concept of a franchise like Mass Effect being put on hiatus a real possibility.......it's sad that a story driven Bioware RPG can't compete with the likes of.........Madden,Fifa,Plants vs Zombies,Battlefield 2,Battlefront2,Titan Fall on and and on. ME:A was conspicuous is its omission from the earnings call. It was the only major release in the last quarter but nothing is said about it. Not 'best launch for a Bioware game' like they said about DA:I on the earnings call when it came out. Not 'Best launch for an ME game' like they said about ME:3. Nothing about how many players were utilizing the MP, nothing. That alone spoke volumes to me. They made a statement supporting ME:A after they were asked it not being mentioned during the earnings report, and if its reception had anything to do with the new IP being pushed back. What else were they going to say, they were disappointed, it didn't turn out the way they expected. But at the same time, it cost 40 million to make IIRC, that's what, roughly 667,000 units at $60/each. So even if they didn't get the three million in the first week they expected, they aren't going to lose any money on it. Even if you throw the marketing money in, they probably starting making a profit past one million units sold, not counting deluxe packs or MP transactions. I'm sure the MP will get lots of support going forward, it's the SP content that may be scarce.
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Post by abaris on May 17, 2017 13:21:05 GMT
Digital sales (DLC/Map-pack,Micro-transactions etc) are the obvious driving force behind EA's business model,which is why EA's game portfolio is multi-player focused and hence why Bioware's future secret IP is described as an "online service". Which, if it's true, is the point of no return for me. I'm hard pressed to think of anything less appealing than something called "online service". I didn't even try the multiplayers in ME3, DAI or in MEA. There's zero interest on my part.
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Post by ShadowAngel on May 17, 2017 13:25:22 GMT
So nothing? Nothing that verifies the Kotaku article? As I thought. Look, here's the Q4 Earnings Report from EA. Money. Talks. More so than some speculation from Kotaku. Thanks for posting,it's plain to see the terrifying reality the Bioware brand faces. Digital sales (DLC/Map-pack,Micro-transactions etc) are the obvious driving force behind EA's business model,which is why EA's game portfolio is multi-player focused and hence why Bioware's future secret IP is described as an "online service". Story driven Bioware games COST too much to develop,require too much development TIME and don't bring in the type of MONEY EA wants (when compared to other EA franchises),which makes the concept of a franchise like Mass Effect being put on hiatus a real possibility.......it's sad that a story driven Bioware RPG can't compete with the likes of.........Madden,Fifa,Plants vs Zombies,Battlefield 2,Battlefront2,Titan Fall on and and on. What makes you think SP is more expensive than multiplayer? Multiplayer has to constantly do server work (especially if they're dedicated servers, and few games use them due to cost of maintaining). So besides servers what's next? Having to constantly rebalance weapons, abilities, yata Yates yata, it takes time and money. Then you have the maps and weapon packs that games like to sell. If a map is going to be handwritten, tested for months, and is paid for by RNG(almost every multiplayer game out there now) MicroT, it's not free. Then you have all the promotions people try to do for MP to get it hyped up to influence others to give it a go. MP isn't as big as SP ME, but it's big enough to where they aren't going to scrap it cause if the money it makes, not cause it's cheaper than SP. Regardless, I hope you don't think EA is doing this with bioware games do to cost, but more so with the money they can gain. Have you looked at how many exclusive single player franchises have a multiplayer tacked on? Or how each has some sort if microtransaction system? It has nothing to do with SP being more expensive and MP being cheaper, it's all about the gain MP brings money wise. Which is sad if you ask me cause so many games rehash bull shot where fans have shit taste in MP games (like Andromeda). It wouldn't be so bad if devs tried making their MP different than the others out there, instead so many people copy/paste off the each other where one game plays like another. I'd rather play gears of war over ME cause it's the top 3rd person shooter out there when it comes to multiplayer play and it's the original thing.
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Post by darkway1 on May 17, 2017 13:43:09 GMT
Thanks for posting,it's plain to see the terrifying reality the Bioware brand faces. Digital sales (DLC/Map-pack,Micro-transactions etc) are the obvious driving force behind EA's business model,which is why EA's game portfolio is multi-player focused and hence why Bioware's future secret IP is described as an "online service". Story driven Bioware games COST too much to develop,require too much development TIME and don't bring in the type of MONEY EA wants (when compared to other EA franchises),which makes the concept of a franchise like Mass Effect being put on hiatus a real possibility.......it's sad that a story driven Bioware RPG can't compete with the likes of.........Madden,Fifa,Plants vs Zombies,Battlefield 2,Battlefront2,Titan Fall on and and on. I'm sorry I don't see anything there to verify your claim that Bioware or ME did poorly. Everything I see shows a upward income. Well,it's about Bioware trying to do it's thing with in the EA business model.As it stands,Bioware/EA have tried to implement the "online service" business model with both Mass Effect and the DAI franchises,the results have drastically changed Biowares whole approach to their game structure. EA generates 61% of it's earnings via digital sales.......EA's portfolio of games are all "online service" focused.........EA's future gaming line up are all "online" focused (including Biowares new IP)...........so common sense dictates the black sheep in the flock is.......Bioware's RPG's. EA's online games have a 2 or 3 year development cycle.......Andromeda had 5 years......EA's online games have basic stories to facilitate shooting stuff etc........Andromeda requires a team of writers,voice actors etc......the game boasts 1200 unique speaking characters........it should be common sense to see how developing a Bioware game just burns through money. At the end of the day though,YOU ARE RIGHT......nothing in EA's paper work states how poor (or how well) ME Andomeda has done.........but I don't see any indication of how MEA can be deemed a success for anyone.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on May 17, 2017 14:00:39 GMT
To be fair it was going to take maybe 5-6 years anyway for a new Mass Effect game, considering the current scheduling of titles BioWare is working on anyway.
So yeah, I think people are blowing this out of proportion.
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Post by darkway1 on May 17, 2017 14:05:37 GMT
Thanks for posting,it's plain to see the terrifying reality the Bioware brand faces. Digital sales (DLC/Map-pack,Micro-transactions etc) are the obvious driving force behind EA's business model,which is why EA's game portfolio is multi-player focused and hence why Bioware's future secret IP is described as an "online service". Story driven Bioware games COST too much to develop,require too much development TIME and don't bring in the type of MONEY EA wants (when compared to other EA franchises),which makes the concept of a franchise like Mass Effect being put on hiatus a real possibility.......it's sad that a story driven Bioware RPG can't compete with the likes of.........Madden,Fifa,Plants vs Zombies,Battlefield 2,Battlefront2,Titan Fall on and and on. What makes you think SP is more expensive than multiplayer? Multiplayer has to constantly do server work (especially if they're dedicated servers, and few games use them due to cost of maintaining). So besides servers what's next? Having to constantly rebalance weapons, abilities, yata Yates yata, it takes time and money. Then you have the maps and weapon packs that games like to sell. If a map is going to be handwritten, tested for months, and is paid for by RNG(almost every multiplayer game out there now) MicroT, it's not free. Then you have all the promotions people try to do for MP to get it hyped up to influence others to give it a go. MP isn't as big as SP ME, but it's big enough to where they aren't going to scrap it cause if the money it makes, not cause it's cheaper than SP. Regardless, I hope you don't think EA is doing this with bioware games do to cost, but more so with the money they can gain. Have you looked at how many exclusive single player franchises have a multiplayer tacked on? Or how each has some sort if microtransaction system? It has nothing to do with SP being more expensive and MP being cheaper, it's all about the gain MP brings money wise. Which is sad if you ask me cause so many games rehash bull shot where fans have shit taste in MP games (like Andromeda). It wouldn't be so bad if devs tried making their MP different than the others out there, instead so many people copy/paste off the each other where one game plays like another. I'd rather play gears of war over ME cause it's the top 3rd person shooter out there when it comes to multiplayer play and it's the original thing. A story focused RPG that BIOWARE is famous for will cost far more than any multiplayer game........but it's not just about the core development cost of a game,it about on-going revenue streams,even IF multiplayer DID cost more,it's game structure facilitates an ongoing income via micro-transactions. A traditional RPG will get a few DLC's and that it. Battlefront,Overwatch,Destiney all have piss poor single player support......parts of the industry just aren't interested in single player,it doesn't pay.
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Post by darkway1 on May 17, 2017 14:15:25 GMT
Digital sales (DLC/Map-pack,Micro-transactions etc) are the obvious driving force behind EA's business model,which is why EA's game portfolio is multi-player focused and hence why Bioware's future secret IP is described as an "online service". Which, if it's true, is the point of no return for me. I'm hard pressed to think of anything less appealing than something called "online service". I didn't even try the multiplayers in ME3, DAI or in MEA. There's zero interest on my part. I pretty much feel the same way,Bioware's brand is all about the single player/story driven/RPG.......embracing the "online service" formula undermines what Bioware as a brand represents.
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Post by tantumdicverbo on May 17, 2017 14:16:00 GMT
What makes you think SP is more expensive than multiplayer? Multiplayer has to constantly do server work (especially if they're dedicated servers, and few games use them due to cost of maintaining). So besides servers what's next? Having to constantly rebalance weapons, abilities, yata Yates yata, it takes time and money. Then you have the maps and weapon packs that games like to sell. If a map is going to be handwritten, tested for months, and is paid for by RNG(almost every multiplayer game out there now) MicroT, it's not free. Then you have all the promotions people try to do for MP to get it hyped up to influence others to give it a go. MP isn't as big as SP ME, but it's big enough to where they aren't going to scrap it cause if the money it makes, not cause it's cheaper than SP. Regardless, I hope you don't think EA is doing this with bioware games do to cost, but more so with the money they can gain. Have you looked at how many exclusive single player franchises have a multiplayer tacked on? Or how each has some sort if microtransaction system? It has nothing to do with SP being more expensive and MP being cheaper, it's all about the gain MP brings money wise. Which is sad if you ask me cause so many games rehash bull shot where fans have shit taste in MP games (like Andromeda). It wouldn't be so bad if devs tried making their MP different than the others out there, instead so many people copy/paste off the each other where one game plays like another. I'd rather play gears of war over ME cause it's the top 3rd person shooter out there when it comes to multiplayer play and it's the original thing. A story focused RPG that BIOWARE is famous for will cost far more than any multiplayer game........but it's not just about the core development cost of a game,it about on-going revenue streams,even IF multiplayer DID cost more,it's game structure facilitates an ongoing income via micro-transactions. A traditional RPG will get a few DLC's and that it. Battlefront,Overwatch,Destiney all have piss poor single player support......parts of the industry just aren't interested in single player,it doesn't pay. I'd add that it's difficult to maintain the RPG audience as well. We story fans don't all like the same story. Every story and character decision made by a developer runs the risk of alienating a certain portion of the fanbase. I'm not interested in Bioware's narrative direction these days, and it's unlikely they'll produce something on which I'd spend time or money. If they tried to make me happy, though, there would be outcry from other quarters. I don't think there's a way to hold the RPG fanbase together. I hope I'm wrong, though. It's a great genre and approach to gaming.
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Post by darkway1 on May 17, 2017 14:31:58 GMT
A story focused RPG that BIOWARE is famous for will cost far more than any multiplayer game........but it's not just about the core development cost of a game,it about on-going revenue streams,even IF multiplayer DID cost more,it's game structure facilitates an ongoing income via micro-transactions. A traditional RPG will get a few DLC's and that it. Battlefront,Overwatch,Destiney all have piss poor single player support......parts of the industry just aren't interested in single player,it doesn't pay. I'd add that it's difficult to maintain the RPG audience as well. We story fans don't all like the same story. Every story and character decision made by a developer runs the risk of alienating a certain portion of the fanbase. I'm not interested in Bioware's narrative direction these days, and it's unlikely they'll produce something on which I'd spend time or money. If they tried to make me happy, though, there would be outcry from other quarters. I don't think there's a way to hold the RPG fanbase together. I hope I'm wrong, though. It's a great genre and approach to gaming. You make a good point and I do wonder if Bioware can actually tell a good story these day's in context of the EA game structure........the open world aspect for example isn't there for story or exploration reasons,it's a sand box made to shoot/kill stuff....so you can level up. Thinking of it I can't remember any real story branching in Andromeda,which is the bread and butter of any Bioware game.
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Post by maximusarael020 on May 17, 2017 14:42:36 GMT
Until Kotaku gets named sources, their info is just as good as me saying "I have inside sources that say that President Trump eats goldfish crackers and frosting every day for breakfast. Five unnamed sources close to the White House confirm." Great journalism, there. That's not how journalism works. Oh, I agree, none of this is how journalism works. I understand that you have to protect sources. But without naming their sources, if they want to keep them protected, then they have to do some investigative REAL journalism and find other people who would be willing to go on record, or any other actual evidence that the claim is true. Otherwise, it's just rumor and innuendo. That's not journalism. Journalists shouldn't get unnamed sources and then just publish what they were told. They need to find additional sources, evidence, stuff to make the claim seem more valid than "Well that's what I was told!"
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Post by maximusarael020 on May 17, 2017 14:50:48 GMT
Thanks for posting,it's plain to see the terrifying reality the Bioware brand faces. Digital sales (DLC/Map-pack,Micro-transactions etc) are the obvious driving force behind EA's business model,which is why EA's game portfolio is multi-player focused and hence why Bioware's future secret IP is described as an "online service". Story driven Bioware games COST too much to develop,require too much development TIME and don't bring in the type of MONEY EA wants (when compared to other EA franchises),which makes the concept of a franchise like Mass Effect being put on hiatus a real possibility.......it's sad that a story driven Bioware RPG can't compete with the likes of.........Madden,Fifa,Plants vs Zombies,Battlefield 2,Battlefront2,Titan Fall on and and on. ME:A was conspicuous is its omission from the earnings call. It was the only major release in the last quarter but nothing is said about it. Not 'best launch for a Bioware game' like they said about DA:I on the earnings call when it came out. Not 'Best launch for an ME game' like they said about ME:3. Nothing about how many players were utilizing the MP, nothing. That alone spoke volumes to me. They made a statement supporting ME:A after they were asked it not being mentioned during the earnings report, and if its reception had anything to do with the new IP being pushed back. What else were they going to say, they were disappointed, it didn't turn out the way they expected. But at the same time, it cost 40 million to make IIRC, that's what, roughly 667,000 units at $60/each. So even if they didn't get the three million in the first week they expected, they aren't going to lose any money on it. Even if you throw the marketing money in, they probably starting making a profit past one million units sold, not counting deluxe packs or MP transactions. I'm sure the MP will get lots of support going forward, it's the SP content that may be scarce. I think part of it might have to do with something I read recently. EA had to defer $54 million of Mass Effect sales outside of the last fiscal year/final quarter because of some law regarding special editions. I don't know if the $54 million is the total sales of special editions, or just part of it (the articles I read didn't specify), but that could be part of why they didn't talk about it at the earnings call. We pretty much know, based on physical game sales and the fact that EA's own data shows that digital sales make up more than 60% of their total sales (and I'm guessing for a PC-heavy game and one pushed hard on Origin that it's closer to other reports of being 75% digital) that the first week of sales was somewhere between 2.5-3 million copies.
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Post by maximusarael020 on May 17, 2017 14:53:01 GMT
I'm sorry I don't see anything there to verify your claim that Bioware or ME did poorly. Everything I see shows a upward income. Well,it's about Bioware trying to do it's thing with in the EA business model.As it stands,Bioware/EA have tried to implement the "online service" business model with both Mass Effect and the DAI franchises,the results have drastically changed Biowares whole approach to their game structure. EA generates 61% of it's earnings via digital sales.......EA's portfolio of games are all "online service" focused.........EA's future gaming line up are all "online" focused (including Biowares new IP)...........so common sense dictates the black sheep in the flock is.......Bioware's RPG's. EA's online games have a 2 or 3 year development cycle.......Andromeda had 5 years......EA's online games have basic stories to facilitate shooting stuff etc........Andromeda requires a team of writers,voice actors etc......the game boasts 1200 unique speaking characters........it should be common sense to see how developing a Bioware game just burns through money. At the end of the day though,YOU ARE RIGHT......nothing in EA's paper work states how poor (or how well) ME Andomeda has done.........but I don't see any indication of how MEA can be deemed a success for anyone. Remember, though, that Andromeda has an "online service" portion. The multiplayer fills that roll. And ME3MP was an unexpected cash-cow for Bioware and EA. So if that continues with MEAMP, they will continue making Mass Effect games.
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