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Post by griffith82 on May 17, 2017 17:16:18 GMT
I'm sorry I don't see anything there to verify your claim that Bioware or ME did poorly. Everything I see shows a upward income. Well,it's about Bioware trying to do it's thing with in the EA business model.As it stands,Bioware/EA have tried to implement the "online service" business model with both Mass Effect and the DAI franchises,the results have drastically changed Biowares whole approach to their game structure. EA generates 61% of it's earnings via digital sales.......EA's portfolio of games are all "online service" focused.........EA's future gaming line up are all "online" focused (including Biowares new IP)...........so common sense dictates the black sheep in the flock is.......Bioware's RPG's. EA's online games have a 2 or 3 year development cycle.......Andromeda had 5 years......EA's online games have basic stories to facilitate shooting stuff etc........Andromeda requires a team of writers,voice actors etc......the game boasts 1200 unique speaking characters........it should be common sense to see how developing a Bioware game just burns through money. At the end of the day though,YOU ARE RIGHT......nothing in EA's paper work states how poor (or how well) ME Andomeda has done.........but I don't see any indication of how MEA can be deemed a success for anyone. Ea won't cut the that out. They have different gaming audiences and they aren't strictly MP or FPS. A longer dev time for a quality game is a good thing. As long as it makes money they will keep it alive.
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Post by Melcara on May 17, 2017 17:19:50 GMT
How can you hate on Trespasser???I thought it was pretty engaging and for the first time I saw my Inquisitor show a bit of rage,quite refreshing....hell,I even lost my arm,different. I assume you were a Solas fan?? No, I am not a female that had hopelessly fallen in love with Solas, and build up a cloud-castle based off three dialogues over 100 hours of the gameplay if that's what you are implying. My full dramatic response over Trespasser is available in this thread and a variety of contemporary threads on the DA fora (I was posting as domi at the time):
bsn.boards.net/post/511684/thread
So... You didn't like Trespasser because you thought it was an underwhelming ending to the Inquisitor's story? How so? To me, it appeared as the beginning of a new story which may not belong to them, but in which the Inquisitor will play a big role. Based on the Inquisitor's final statement, I doubt that they are done saving the world just yet.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 17:22:30 GMT
No, I am not a female that had hopelessly fallen in love with Solas, and build up a cloud-castle based off three dialogues over 100 hours of the gameplay if that's what you are implying. My full dramatic response over Trespasser is available in this thread and a variety of contemporary threads on the DA fora (I was posting as domi at the time):
bsn.boards.net/post/511684/thread
So... You didn't like Trespasser because you thought it was an underwhelming ending to the Inquisitor's story? How so? To me, it appeared as the beginning of a new story in which may not belong to them, but in which the Inquisitor will play a big role. Based on the Inquisitor's final statement, I doubt that they are done saving the world just yet. That thread is not locked out It also has multiple posts by me on exactly that topic while I was still freshly passionate about it (along with my definitive and most awesome review of Inquisition). I would not want to reproduce a pale copy of them in this here "people taking "hiatus" on Andromeda the wrong way" thread in Andromeda forum
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Post by LogicGunn on May 17, 2017 18:50:50 GMT
There is literally no way to know what is going on unless Bioware release a statement or tweet or article or whatever. It's very easy to make assumptions based on rumour but it's not a good idea either way.
The lack of communication is the only thing we actually know at this point, and it could mean anything at all.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 18:57:02 GMT
To clear this up Mass Effect development is on Hiatus. as any game would be after development. when a game studio says that they mean that no new game under that property is currently under development. However, fixes, Patches, and DLC are part of what’s called extended support or after release support. I can see why Bioware is not ready to start on a ME:A 2 yet they have to fix this game. Plus this “Dylan” game they are pinning everything on and Dragon Age 4 is in a pre-production phase and Austin is always working on SWTOR content. So right now they don’t have the time or a studio to head up a new ME title. BioWare Montreal failed as a dev studio as a support studio will still be working on Andromeda but not at a fast clip Thank you! One would think that there are just haters out there that want to see it fail. Some of them troll the forums day and night. Sort of sad since it's not really a happy place to be when you seem to live for something failing. The rest of us that enjoy the game will be happy when the DLC is released and when we hear news of the next installment. I think Montreal would have been fine to handle parts of the game or certain aspects of it, but it seems like for the whole game it was just too much. Particularly all the animation related stuff. And the writing.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 19:13:18 GMT
But that's what I'm saying. EA knows how it appears to people. EA also knows the score when it comes to releasing games. EA also knows what happens next time they release a buggy product like this. And dude, since about 2011 ish, they have been working on a Mass Effect game. They went straight from ME3 directly into MEA. So this is like huge news. Actually not so. They said nothing until around 2013 or 2014 IIRC. I remember seeing people look for ME4 and for a long time they said nothing about if they were doing one and specifically said it might be this or that but they didn't know. They spent a LONG time deflecting or not giving any information at all. Then when they brought up possibilities some people would have fits over them. I don't think it was until maybe 2014 that we got anything even remotely concrete that they were looking at it. Maybe it was 2013 but ME3 came out in 2012 (march IIRC). And I think the last DLC was april 2013 just over a year later. During all that time they said nothing about a sequel other than maybe and bouncing some ideas. I'm sure they were not working on andromeda until at least late 2013. Bare minimum they were not working on it in 2011. They did not go straight from ME3 to MEA from all accounts in the news.
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Post by tantumdicverbo on May 17, 2017 21:01:15 GMT
I'm wondering if RPG's aren't headed toward a niche in which the visual production values fall off a bit in favor of story. If they can be made faster and at less cost, they wouldn't need as large a fanbase. I don't know the business very well, though, so I may be missing something. That's what Obsidian Revival is about in 2015-2017. They pushed out three titles in different settings on a twenty years old engine that completely bypasses animations and 3D art costs, and with limited investment in VA. The initial niche reception was fairily decent, but you sure won't find high traffic forums ablaze about it. The trade off is that it's THREE titles in different setting each in two years. I don't like two out of three by descriptions, but I can chose out of THREE. With AAA games, i am lucky to get one game every four years, and picking and choosing is not happening. If I did not like a game or the setting is meh, well, wait three years.... I must look into this Obsidian Revival. I'm not a huge gamer, but I like the idea of compact games with interesting stories that I can treat like books.
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Post by goishen on May 17, 2017 23:14:20 GMT
But that's what I'm saying. EA knows how it appears to people. EA also knows the score when it comes to releasing games. EA also knows what happens next time they release a buggy product like this. And dude, since about 2011 ish, they have been working on a Mass Effect game. They went straight from ME3 directly into MEA. So this is like huge news. Actually not so. They said nothing until around 2013 or 2014 IIRC. I remember seeing people look for ME4 and for a long time they said nothing about if they were doing one and specifically said it might be this or that but they didn't know. They spent a LONG time deflecting or not giving any information at all. Then when they brought up possibilities some people would have fits over them. I don't think it was until maybe 2014 that we got anything even remotely concrete that they were looking at it. Maybe it was 2013 but ME3 came out in 2012 (march IIRC). And I think the last DLC was april 2013 just over a year later. During all that time they said nothing about a sequel other than maybe and bouncing some ideas. I'm sure they were not working on andromeda until at least late 2013. Bare minimum they were not working on it in 2011. They did not go straight from ME3 to MEA from all accounts in the news. Srsly, dude. If I have to correct you, I'm just not going to. Plus, all the math is up there. [insult mod-redacted]
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Post by SofaJockey on May 18, 2017 4:21:10 GMT
Actually not so. They said nothing until around 2013 or 2014 IIRC. I remember seeing people look for ME4 and for a long time they said nothing about if they were doing one and specifically said it might be this or that but they didn't know. They spent a LONG time deflecting or not giving any information at all. Then when they brought up possibilities some people would have fits over them. I don't think it was until maybe 2014 that we got anything even remotely concrete that they were looking at it. Maybe it was 2013 but ME3 came out in 2012 (march IIRC). And I think the last DLC was april 2013 just over a year later. During all that time they said nothing about a sequel other than maybe and bouncing some ideas. I'm sure they were not working on andromeda until at least late 2013. Bare minimum they were not working on it in 2011. They did not go straight from ME3 to MEA from all accounts in the news. Srsly, dude. If I have to correct you, I'm just not going to. Plus, all the math is up there. [insult mod-redacted]Let's not insult other posters, please. Also, the first public pronouncement on MEA was June 9th 2014: Arguably far too early to say anything, this was before the Fallout 4 'surprise' launch which was praised as a new model of discussing launch only shortly before actual launch. Aside of this, how long BioWare worked on Mass Effect and with how large a team, remains speculative.
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Post by Eterna on May 18, 2017 6:20:47 GMT
Show me any other article that doesn't reference Kotaku, because if that's the only source of the rumor then I have serious doubts about it's veracity. I'm serious, all I can find are articles that all link back to Kotaku. Lol. Half the internet thinks Mass Effect is dead. If it wasnt BioWare would be in a rush to let people know DLC was still inbound and they should keep there wallets ready. You'd be surprised how little the real world actually cares about what Youtube users and forumites think.
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Post by griffith82 on May 18, 2017 12:48:08 GMT
Srsly, dude. If I have to correct you, I'm just not going to. Plus, all the math is up there. [insult mod-redacted]Let's not insult other posters, please. Also, the first public pronouncement on MEA was June 9th 2014: Arguably far too early to say anything, this was before the Fallout 4 'surprise' launch which was praised as a new model of discussing launch only shortly before actual launch. Aside of this, how long BioWare worked on Mass Effect and with how large a team, remains speculative. As much as I'm enjoying ME:A announcing it that early was a mistake. Looking at it now a lot has changed from that prototype and that always causes problems. Mostly "oh I like that design why'd it change" etc...
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Post by SofaJockey on May 18, 2017 13:54:51 GMT
As much as I'm enjoying ME:A announcing it that early was a mistake. Looking at it now a lot has changed from that prototype and that always causes problems. Mostly "oh I like that design why'd it change" etc... Yep, Pete Hines' 'rule of one E3' has been a useful innovation, I think...
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Post by slayer299 on May 18, 2017 14:18:21 GMT
To clear this up Mass Effect development is on Hiatus. as any game would be after development. when a game studio says that they mean that no new game under that property is currently under development. However, fixes, Patches, and DLC are part of what’s called extended support or after release support. I can see why Bioware is not ready to start on a ME:A 2 yet they have to fix this game. Plus this “Dylan” game they are pinning everything on and Dragon Age 4 is in a pre-production phase and Austin is always working on SWTOR content. So right now they don’t have the time or a studio to head up a new ME title. BioWare Montreal failed as a dev studio as a support studio will still be working on Andromeda but not at a fast clip I don't know about anyone expecting work on ME:A 2, but with the entire studio scaled down to barebones I don't know how you can expect lots of future content from Montreal, patches sure, maybe even DLC depending on how far it was, but pretty much nothing more and I don't see them putting out any major patches either. You yourself stated how all the other studios were working on other projects, so how would Montreal with a skeleton staff put out DLC for SP or MP? To me, hiatus, means permanent vacation for the foreseeable future, so that in 5 or more years Bioware will pull ME franchise of the shelf.
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Post by kelarqshah on May 18, 2017 15:06:54 GMT
Oh, I agree, none of this is how journalism works. I understand that you have to protect sources. But without naming their sources, if they want to keep them protected, then they have to do some investigative REAL journalism and find other people who would be willing to go on record, or any other actual evidence that the claim is true. Otherwise, it's just rumor and innuendo. That's not journalism. Journalists shouldn't get unnamed sources and then just publish what they were told. They need to find additional sources, evidence, stuff to make the claim seem more valid than "Well that's what I was told!" To be fair, I'm not really a Kotaku reader, but I think this particular journalist has a book coming out later in the year on game development and he has some scoop on DA2's cancelled expansion and DAI. Not suggesting this validates this particular article, but it would suggest he has had sources close to Bioware in the past. Plus at this point there's very little to verify. Anyone you quote from Bioware or EA before the company has made an official announcement risks jeopardizing their career. This guy's a journalist. Maybe he jumped the gun on a rumour in order to get clicks and satisfy deadlines. Or he couldn't come up with anything more concrete and ran the story before someone else could.
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Post by Fogg on May 18, 2017 15:14:49 GMT
If it's all normal, it wouldn't be news worthy. I know everyone starts to bash sites like Kotaku as soon there's news they don't like, but their reporting is pretty good. Better than buying into EA's corporate bullshit. This is why Americans have so much fake news, they want the facts to match their opinions/wishes.
Journalists aren't the ones bullshiting you for financial gain, everyone else is.
Anyway, keep denying and be heavily disappointed later on. Or accept something is up and there might not even be DLC and be happy if everyone is wrong about it.
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Post by griffith82 on May 18, 2017 16:32:49 GMT
If it's all normal, it wouldn't be news worthy. I know everyone starts to bash sites like Kotaku as soon there's news they don't like, but their reporting is pretty good.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 16:59:02 GMT
What Kotaku has done is tabloid journalism. They have taken something this is pretty much par for the course in game companies (moving people around to work on different projects) and blown it out of proportion so badly that they've had to redact or change their story or headline a few times. Meanwhile, every nitwit out there is referencing them or using them as the basis of all knowledge RE: all things MEA. And sadly, while it seems the haters are thrilled over this and having full on orgasms over it, the only people really and truly upset about this are the fans who love or like the game and want more. I didn't even know about this Kotaku gem until I decided to do a search on Andromeda DLC and found nothing but this hiatus Armageddon end for Andromeda almost as if it were being nuked from orbit. Then of course the more you read the more comments you find that are black/white. People hating it and having a song and dance over it, some of them never having even played it and clearly only been watching the bad vids hoping for some epic level failure which they feel this is it and the other side of that coin, the people who want more and are sorely disappointed.
Meanwhile, reality is that voice actors are working in the studio on DLC and I am sure it will do more than well enough to justify more of them. Remember, they are cheaper to make than the game and in shorter time. So in terms of profit, DLC is really where you get the best bank in any game. Less people to pay working on it, quicker to make, and each usually is about a third of the cost of a full game that took five years to make. Actually, it only took more like three or maybe four years because it's been five years since ME3 release.
Odds are we will see another one somewhere around 2020. They maybe have pushed Dylan back but I can't imagine them not having people work on titles that they know bring in revenue. They will without a doubt have people working on the next DA and ME titles because they are not one small studio and they know that is guaranteed revenue. They have shareholders to please so that drives them even harder to make profits. Dylan is new and unknown. Putting all their eggs in that basket while not investing some in other titles that have proven solid sales would be not the best business practice.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2017 12:45:38 GMT
I'm sorry I don't see anything there to verify your claim that Bioware or ME did poorly. Everything I see shows a upward income. Well,it's about Bioware trying to do it's thing with in the EA business model.As it stands,Bioware/EA have tried to implement the "online service" business model with both Mass Effect and the DAI franchises,the results have drastically changed Biowares whole approach to their game structure. EA generates 61% of it's earnings via digital sales.......EA's portfolio of games are all "online service" focused.........EA's future gaming line up are all "online" focused (including Biowares new IP)...........so common sense dictates the black sheep in the flock is.......Bioware's RPG's. EA's online games have a 2 or 3 year development cycle.......Andromeda had 5 years......EA's online games have basic stories to facilitate shooting stuff etc........Andromeda requires a team of writers,voice actors etc......the game boasts 1200 unique speaking characters........it should be common sense to see how developing a Bioware game just burns through money. At the end of the day though,YOU ARE RIGHT......nothing in EA's paper work states how poor (or how well) ME Andomeda has done.........but I don't see any indication of how MEA can be deemed a success for anyone. MEA has done plenty well. If it made more than they invested (and this will not be assessed until after all DLC is sold) then it's a win. They are a corporation that is in it for money. If they walk away with money they will make more. Development for MEA was not technically five years. That was simply how long it took since the last game. But they released DLC until april 2013. They did not begin working on it until at least that point. So four years at most. More likely 3-3.5 years which falls right in line with their time frame considering they had to come up with a new setting and story that could be feasible. Also, MP is online focused. That is a money maker for them and it made them a nice amount of money for this game. When the game first came out, you know how many characters I saw in bronze and silver toting high level weapons? Bronze and silver don't get that much money for the run. These characters were low level too. So people were sinking money into the MP to get better weapons. That's money that nobody has calculated that really didn't cost them a hell of a lot to put into. And more people will be using the MP. Nobody has factored in any of the profits they will get from MP which was a nice bit of cash for them. That MP will be going long after MEA is not even a thought in all this failure doomsaying but it's a fact nevertheless. Another fact, people were still playing and are still playing ME3. They might even be making money off ME3 which means they might be making money off of MEA long after everyone considers it done and dead. It has a solid two years minimum where people will buy the game to play that part of it and then probably have a few microtransactions to get some weapons , some different kits, stuff to give them more variety right out of the gate. Right now they are tweaking their bugs and issues with it, but as time progresses more people will play it and more money will be made on that end. And here's the thing, they kind of need to make a new MEA to make a new MP. Or they at least go hand in hand because they need to make the factions you fight and the maps and after they are done with all that they might as well make the whole game to get more sales to support it. So even if MEA is not sufficient in sales, MEAMP will shore it up and make it worth while between more sales for that and lots of microtransactions. Right not this isn't any different than how ME3 was received with its ending and in the end, they made another. The ending borked sales for that one too. And they still made another. Stop imagining you know the status of MEA and looking at it from a very limited perspective (your own of displeasure) and start seeing the reality that it did well enough to warrant continuation of the series because it is still making money. This group in this forum is a small part of it the player base. All the youtubers are another small part of it. Just because there are handful (seriously we aren't even talking hundreds) of naysayers shooting it down doesn't mean it did poorly. I've seen the comments and for every hate video right now that is talking trash about the death of MEA there are loads of commenters wanting more and upset that they might not get it. There is plenty of money to be made from MEA still and in the end, it will make more than enough to justify continuing to make more of them.
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Post by Ahriman on May 19, 2017 12:58:58 GMT
What's up with this "usual business"? Was Bioware Edmonton turned into support department after ME release or what?
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Post by linksocarina on May 19, 2017 14:08:25 GMT
Lol. Half the internet thinks Mass Effect is dead. If it wasnt BioWare would be in a rush to let people know DLC was still inbound and they should keep there wallets ready. You'd be surprised how little the real world actually cares about what Youtube users and forumites think. Hell, most forumites and insiders like us don't care either. It's why I abhor most youtube content, it's all the definition of clickbait in some instances with eye catching titles and proclaiming dominance and knowledge they barely understand. Very few people in the gaming community communicate nuance and respectable positions on topics. It sucks, frankly.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2017 15:58:19 GMT
>Trusting Loltaku articles...
ROTFLMFAO! ...That's all I got. :oki:
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Post by cooldude on May 19, 2017 16:24:59 GMT
You know, either way, if nothing new is said about it until Battlefront II is done and released, Alot of people are just not going to care unless they have nothing else to play.
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Post by darkway1 on May 19, 2017 19:17:19 GMT
Well,it's about Bioware trying to do it's thing with in the EA business model.As it stands,Bioware/EA have tried to implement the "online service" business model with both Mass Effect and the DAI franchises,the results have drastically changed Biowares whole approach to their game structure. EA generates 61% of it's earnings via digital sales.......EA's portfolio of games are all "online service" focused.........EA's future gaming line up are all "online" focused (including Biowares new IP)...........so common sense dictates the black sheep in the flock is.......Bioware's RPG's. EA's online games have a 2 or 3 year development cycle.......Andromeda had 5 years......EA's online games have basic stories to facilitate shooting stuff etc........Andromeda requires a team of writers,voice actors etc......the game boasts 1200 unique speaking characters........it should be common sense to see how developing a Bioware game just burns through money. At the end of the day though,YOU ARE RIGHT......nothing in EA's paper work states how poor (or how well) ME Andomeda has done.........but I don't see any indication of how MEA can be deemed a success for anyone. MEA has done plenty well. If it made more than they invested (and this will not be assessed until after all DLC is sold) then it's a win. They are a corporation that is in it for money. If they walk away with money they will make more. Development for MEA was not technically five years. That was simply how long it took since the last game. But they released DLC until april 2013. They did not begin working on it until at least that point. So four years at most. More likely 3-3.5 years which falls right in line with their time frame considering they had to come up with a new setting and story that could be feasible. Also, MP is online focused. That is a money maker for them and it made them a nice amount of money for this game. When the game first came out, you know how many characters I saw in bronze and silver toting high level weapons? Bronze and silver don't get that much money for the run. These characters were low level too. So people were sinking money into the MP to get better weapons. That's money that nobody has calculated that really didn't cost them a hell of a lot to put into. And more people will be using the MP. Nobody has factored in any of the profits they will get from MP which was a nice bit of cash for them. That MP will be going long after MEA is not even a thought in all this failure doomsaying but it's a fact nevertheless. Another fact, people were still playing and are still playing ME3. They might even be making money off ME3 which means they might be making money off of MEA long after everyone considers it done and dead. It has a solid two years minimum where people will buy the game to play that part of it and then probably have a few microtransactions to get some weapons , some different kits, stuff to give them more variety right out of the gate. Right now they are tweaking their bugs and issues with it, but as time progresses more people will play it and more money will be made on that end. And here's the thing, they kind of need to make a new MEA to make a new MP. Or they at least go hand in hand because they need to make the factions you fight and the maps and after they are done with all that they might as well make the whole game to get more sales to support it. So even if MEA is not sufficient in sales, MEAMP will shore it up and make it worth while between more sales for that and lots of microtransactions. Right not this isn't any different than how ME3 was received with its ending and in the end, they made another. The ending borked sales for that one too. And they still made another. Stop imagining you know the status of MEA and looking at it from a very limited perspective (your own of displeasure) and start seeing the reality that it did well enough to warrant continuation of the series because it is still making money. This group in this forum is a small part of it the player base. All the youtubers are another small part of it. Just because there are handful (seriously we aren't even talking hundreds) of naysayers shooting it down doesn't mean it did poorly. I've seen the comments and for every hate video right now that is talking trash about the death of MEA there are loads of commenters wanting more and upset that they might not get it. There is plenty of money to be made from MEA still and in the end, it will make more than enough to justify continuing to make more of them. Well,A lot of what you have mentioned actually adds weight to the points I've been making,MP is important,in fact,it's so important that it can salvage Andromeda's possible poor box sales........which highlights why EA has so much faith in the MP business model. Your ignoring EA's MP business model and how that business model affects the game design........it's an important point because Bioware fans expect a STORY/CHARACTER driven game because that's what Bioware and Mass Effect are all about,that's how the franchise and Bioware earn't it's fan base.......NOT it's Multiplayer or it's action/shooting focused openworld. If I were to put Mass Effect on "hiatus" it would be down to basic branding and a lack of direction......Mass Effect Andromeda offered a generic/lacklustre story experience at best and a MP experience that can't compete with EA's own MP titles.......resulting in an experience no one is totally happy with. I for one hope Mass Effect DOESN'T go into Hiatus,I hope BIOWARE will bounce back and show the world their true creative nature.........but I thought that after the Witcher3 got released and we ended up with Andromeda.
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