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Post by griffith82 on May 25, 2017 20:43:37 GMT
I'm not really impressed with the romances in general. Back in ME1 it was novel to me and they felt kind of immersive. I liked it for the novelty. Since then, they feel really more on the why bother side. I did a peebee one and was so unimpressed it was actually depressing (almost). I felt like I compromised who my character was in the game out of curiosity. And regretted it for being stuck with an emotional 13 year old. The sex scene, so not worth it to me personally. Reminded me of some kind of real life scenario. But in terms of looking at the romances critically and seeing how they have evolved from game to game, I have to wonder if people really get anything fulfilling out of them. After all, we RP for that feeling of immersion. This game, it feels like some flirts then you have sex. Zero immersion for me because I like that sense of getting to know someone, feeling that connection. It was more like a shitty porn from my perspective. And if that money could go for something better, I would think it would be well worth it. ME1 didn't really show that much more and it was more compelling. I got to know Liara a bit more. Not much. But I felt like I had some conversations with her. I played femshep and felt like Kaidan's was better in that respect since Liara really doesn't give you as many conversations. I know there are people that still enjoy them and I would not want the to lose something they love that they don't get elsewhere. But I have to wonder if even they have noticed how they seem to be written lazier and lazier as time passes for each game we get. For straight women, I feel truly bad. They got some shit-tastic choices this round. Liam who sounds like he has marbles in his mouth and is kind of a crisis in motion and Jaal who, I am sorry to say this, but those chest flaps and those legs, no. Just no. Angara are the most ridiculous looking race I have ever seen. Someone was high when they made that concept. High out of their minds. For sure.So I take it you aren’t fond of the weird looking half-cat, half-fish, half-human people. What was that fish like race from KOTOR? I bet he wasn't fond of that either.
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Post by Iakus on May 25, 2017 20:44:30 GMT
I thought the scenes in MEA were well done. For BW, making games that focus so strongly on characters and their interactions and relationships it would be more weird if we didn't have romances and if those romances didn't lead to sex. Having intimate scenes with the characters is a natural part of the experience. I don't think anyone wants, you know full interactive quicktime events or anything, but just having fade to blacks would(and does) feel underwhelming. People can have romantic relationships with someone that doesn't involve sex, either ever or at least not within the timeframe Bioware games take place in. Just because they don't doesn't make them weird, unnatural, or lesser to those that do. Example A: Planescape:Torment. The Nameless One can romance 2 characters (Annah and Fall-From-Grace) but, due to physical limitations, cannot physically be with either of them. And it's handled just fine, heck in the "good" ending, there's hope they may be together in the future.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on May 25, 2017 20:50:27 GMT
I would like us to consider five things. 1. Quality. 2. Time and resources spent. 3. Overall impact of the scenes themselves. 4. Presentation vs Alternative options such as fade to black. 5. Does it get in the way of story telling and can be a distraction. So basically is the story/the game overall, better, or worse off for having detailed sex scenes. Keeping in mind most people will not romance more than 1-2 LI's (No, not you specifically MOST PEOPLE.) I think the fade to black after a brief scene is the way to go. It allows the story to continue without the romance becoming the cinematic focus towards the final moments. Also frees up time and resources. A mix of both. I'm not really impressed with the romances in general. Back in ME1 it was novel to me and they felt kind of immersive. I liked it for the novelty. Since then, they feel really more on the why bother side. I did a peebee one and was so unimpressed it was actually depressing (almost). I felt like I compromised who my character was in the game out of curiosity. And regretted it for being stuck with an emotional 13 year old. The sex scene, so not worth it to me personally. Reminded me of some kind of real life scenario. But in terms of looking at the romances critically and seeing how they have evolved from game to game, I have to wonder if people really get anything fulfilling out of them. After all, we RP for that feeling of immersion. This game, it feels like some flirts then you have sex. Zero immersion for me because I like that sense of getting to know someone, feeling that connection. It was more like a shitty porn from my perspective. And if that money could go for something better, I would think it would be well worth it. ME1 didn't really show that much more and it was more compelling. I got to know Liara a bit more. Not much. But I felt like I had some conversations with her. I played femshep and felt like Kaidan's was better in that respect since Liara really doesn't give you as many conversations. I know there are people that still enjoy them and I would not want the to lose something they love that they don't get elsewhere. But I have to wonder if even they have noticed how they seem to be written lazier and lazier as time passes for each game we get. For straight women, I feel truly bad. They got some shit-tastic choices this round. Liam who sounds like he has marbles in his mouth and is kind of a crisis in motion and Jaal who, I am sorry to say this, but those chest flaps and those legs, no. Just no. Angara are the most ridiculous looking race I have ever seen. Someone was high when they made that concept. High out of their minds. For sure. See, romances are much more interesting when they are about the characters. Romances are opportunities to delver further into who they are and what motivates them, of bringing your character and the LI closer together emotionally. They shouldn't be about just getting through dialogue, hitting the Flirt options so we can get into their virtual pants.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 21:02:43 GMT
I'm not really impressed with the romances in general. Back in ME1 it was novel to me and they felt kind of immersive. I liked it for the novelty. Since then, they feel really more on the why bother side. I did a peebee one and was so unimpressed it was actually depressing (almost). I felt like I compromised who my character was in the game out of curiosity. And regretted it for being stuck with an emotional 13 year old. The sex scene, so not worth it to me personally. Reminded me of some kind of real life scenario. But in terms of looking at the romances critically and seeing how they have evolved from game to game, I have to wonder if people really get anything fulfilling out of them. After all, we RP for that feeling of immersion. This game, it feels like some flirts then you have sex. Zero immersion for me because I like that sense of getting to know someone, feeling that connection. It was more like a shitty porn from my perspective. And if that money could go for something better, I would think it would be well worth it. ME1 didn't really show that much more and it was more compelling. I got to know Liara a bit more. Not much. But I felt like I had some conversations with her. I played femshep and felt like Kaidan's was better in that respect since Liara really doesn't give you as many conversations. I know there are people that still enjoy them and I would not want the to lose something they love that they don't get elsewhere. But I have to wonder if even they have noticed how they seem to be written lazier and lazier as time passes for each game we get. For straight women, I feel truly bad. They got some shit-tastic choices this round. Liam who sounds like he has marbles in his mouth and is kind of a crisis in motion and Jaal who, I am sorry to say this, but those chest flaps and those legs, no. Just no. Angara are the most ridiculous looking race I have ever seen. Someone was high when they made that concept. High out of their minds. For sure. See, romances are much more interesting when they are about the characters. Romances are opportunities to delver further into who they are and what motivates them, of bringing your character and the LI closer together emotionally. They shouldn't be about just getting through dialogue, hitting the Flirt options so we can get into their virtual pants. And that's my point. The characters themselves are mostly uninteresting and I just don't care. Some aren't even likable. Then if you want to romance them, it's like four flirts and woohoo. It literally added absolutely nothing for this game in terms of depth to the relationship aside from getting that sex scene. So completely devoid of anything making it interesting that I was feeling like why did I bother? I felt so cheapened because it was basically nothing more that a few slightly different responses and then sex. Not fitting for my character at all.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 21:23:19 GMT
I'm not really impressed with the romances in general. Back in ME1 it was novel to me and they felt kind of immersive. I liked it for the novelty. Since then, they feel really more on the why bother side. I did a peebee one and was so unimpressed it was actually depressing (almost). I felt like I compromised who my character was in the game out of curiosity. And regretted it for being stuck with an emotional 13 year old. The sex scene, so not worth it to me personally. Reminded me of some kind of real life scenario. But in terms of looking at the romances critically and seeing how they have evolved from game to game, I have to wonder if people really get anything fulfilling out of them. After all, we RP for that feeling of immersion. This game, it feels like some flirts then you have sex. Zero immersion for me because I like that sense of getting to know someone, feeling that connection. It was more like a shitty porn from my perspective. And if that money could go for something better, I would think it would be well worth it. ME1 didn't really show that much more and it was more compelling. I got to know Liara a bit more. Not much. But I felt like I had some conversations with her. I played femshep and felt like Kaidan's was better in that respect since Liara really doesn't give you as many conversations. I know there are people that still enjoy them and I would not want the to lose something they love that they don't get elsewhere. But I have to wonder if even they have noticed how they seem to be written lazier and lazier as time passes for each game we get. For straight women, I feel truly bad. They got some shit-tastic choices this round. Liam who sounds like he has marbles in his mouth and is kind of a crisis in motion and Jaal who, I am sorry to say this, but those chest flaps and those legs, no. Just no. Angara are the most ridiculous looking race I have ever seen. Someone was high when they made that concept. High out of their minds. For sure. I like romances when they color the story of the game a certain way, and have interesting ideas.
Thane's romance starts as one between a dying man and a woman who'd died already. It gives ME3 a strong wuxia aspect as Shepard pursues personal revenge as the world burns, and then after is accomplished surrenders her consciousness for the betterment of the world, because her individuality is used up.
Anders vs Sebastian story and romances are intertwined, making DA2 an intensely personal experience.
I understand where Andromeda goes with Jaal - it is an inverse take on the trope where the human males get to explain the worthiness of humanity to aliens through love in stuff like Fifth Element or Kirk's many affairs or the like. It's an interesting idea, but it did not entertain me enough.
Reyes romantic subplot is far better executed providing you with an intriguing story that makes Kadara and the Exiles more relevant to Ryder.
So, Jaal vs Reyes vs Liam imo allows me to RP my Ryder's alliances. Is she someone who ventures froth with a dream to discover the new galaxy and is completely open and excited about the idea of an alliance with truly alien beings? Is she devoted to the Initiative and so Liam is her pick (it's a stretch, I know)? Or if things were different, would not she be leaving the station to fight for the livelihood on Kadara?
I do not need explicit sex scenes to accomplish my romantic goals
You can color your choice of a female mate in the same way if you wish.
Well, that's what I do when I play, and when playing as a straight female, I feel that I am luckier in Andromeda than I was in Inquisition, but not as awesome as I had it in DA2 and ME2/3.
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Post by Vortex13 on May 25, 2017 21:52:39 GMT
People can have romantic relationships with someone that doesn't involve sex, either ever or at least not within the timeframe Bioware games take place in. Just because they don't doesn't make them weird, unnatural, or lesser to those that do. Example A: Planescape:Torment. The Nameless One can romance 2 characters (Annah and Fall-From-Grace) but, due to physical limitations, cannot physically be with either of them. And it's handled just fine, heck in the "good" ending, there's hope they may be together in the future. See, now those are the types of 'romance' plots I could really immerse myself into. In a world supposedly filled with non-human perspectives and alien beings why are we just limited to what is "compatible" in terms of role playing who our character will romance? I've said it before along other topics, but I find it a bit hypocritical that for all of BioWare's parading of "inclusiveness" and "diversity" their worlds still operate on a foundation of: If you're not human, or near enough to pass as one in a rubber suit, you're either 1) a horrible monster we can kill without remorse, or 2) you're a comedic foil that we can make fun of for have the audacity of being 'different' from us. Why does romance have to equal compatible genitalia, or something cute we can cuddle up with at least? Are things completely divorced from normal human sensibilities to be excluded from any and all possible relationships? Why can't the PC "romance" that being comprised entirely of free floating neutrons? Is the only basis for a legitimate romance being able to see naked bodies on the screen? Etc. Think of a science fiction take on a person in a relationship with a quadriplegic in the real world. Physically, they can't really be intimate with each other, but surly there is ways that two people in that circumstance can express their love for each other. Just take that concept and apply it to some crazy 'alien' alien. Not only do you now have a compelling romance arc not built around a sex scene being the end goal, but you also have an opportunity to showcase to players something that takes them out of their comfort zone, something that exposes them the 'alien' side of the universe.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 21:55:56 GMT
See, romances are much more interesting when they are about the characters. Romances are opportunities to delver further into who they are and what motivates them, of bringing your character and the LI closer together emotionally. They shouldn't be about just getting through dialogue, hitting the Flirt options so we can get into their virtual pants. I mostly agree - but there's one issue I have with the bolded. There have been times when the only way for the PC to develop a close bond with a character is by engaging the romance, and that's a problem imho. I've seen quite a few forum discussions about things that LIs only reveal if romanced. In some cases, that might be very realistic and appropriate, in other cases I think they just didn't provide much in the way of a friendship path with the NPC. Garrus and Jacob are on opposite ends of that spectrum. Garrus is always keen to be best buds with Shepard, with or without romancing him, and femShep can't talk to Jacob without going into sultry flirt mode. So - I guess what I'm saying is, sure, let's have some extra pillow talk with a romanced LI but let's not deprive the non-romanced version of opportunities for closeness.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on May 25, 2017 22:33:53 GMT
Example A: Planescape:Torment. The Nameless One can romance 2 characters (Annah and Fall-From-Grace) but, due to physical limitations, cannot physically be with either of them. And it's handled just fine, heck in the "good" ending, there's hope they may be together in the future. See, now those are the types of 'romance' plots I could really immerse myself into. In a world supposedly filled with non-human perspectives and alien beings why are we just limited to what is "compatible" in terms of role playing who our character will romance? I've said it before along other topics, but I find it a bit hypocritical that for all of BioWare's parading of "inclusiveness" and "diversity" their worlds still operate on a foundation of: If you're not human, or near enough to pass as one in a rubber suit, you're either 1) a horrible monster we can kill without remorse, or 2) you're a comedic foil that we can make fun of for have the audacity of being 'different' from us. Why does romance have to equal compatible genitalia, or something cute we can cuddle up with at least? Are things completely divorced from normal human sensibilities to be excluded from any and all possible relationships? Why can't the PC "romance" that being comprised entirely of free floating neutrons? Is the only basis for a legitimate romance being able to see naked bodies on the screen? Etc. Think of a science fiction take on a person in a relationship with a quadriplegic in the real world. Physically, they can't really be intimate with each other, but surly there is ways that two people in that circumstance can express their love for each other. Just take that concept and apply it to some crazy 'alien' alien. Not only do you now have a compelling romance arc not built around a sex scene being the end goal, but you also have an opportunity to showcase to players something that takes them out of their comfort zone, something that exposes them the 'alien' side of the universe. This is why I thought the romance with Joker and EDI would be cool, exploring the idea of having a relationship with a being that doesn't have a humanoid form. Then she got a sexbot to remote control.
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Iakus
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on May 25, 2017 22:42:48 GMT
See, romances are much more interesting when they are about the characters. Romances are opportunities to delver further into who they are and what motivates them, of bringing your character and the LI closer together emotionally. They shouldn't be about just getting through dialogue, hitting the Flirt options so we can get into their virtual pants. I mostly agree - but there's one issue I have with the bolded. There have been times when the only way for the PC to develop a close bond with a character is by engaging the romance, and that's a problem imho. I've seen quite a few forum discussions about things that LIs only reveal if romanced. In some cases, that might be very realistic and appropriate, in other cases I think they just didn't provide much in the way of a friendship path with the NPC. Garrus and Jacob are on opposite ends of that spectrum. Garrus is always keen to be best buds with Shepard, with or without romancing him, and femShep can't talk to Jacob without going into sultry flirt mode. So - I guess what I'm saying is, sure, let's have some extra pillow talk with a romanced LI but let's not deprive the non-romanced version of opportunities for closeness. Well, sure, a certain amount of balance needs to be maintained for those who aren't going to romance the character. But the fun in following a romance, to me is in achieving a new level of understanding and rapport with the character. Not in "Report to my quarters. WE'll bang, okay?"
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 26, 2017 0:22:46 GMT
So I take it you aren’t fond of the weird looking half-cat, half-fish, half-human people. What was that fish like race from KOTOR? I bet he wasn't fond of that either. Selkath.
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Post by The_Smiling_Bandit on May 26, 2017 1:34:10 GMT
So I take it you aren’t fond of the weird looking half-cat, half-fish, half-human people. What was that fish like race from KOTOR? I bet he wasn't fond of that either. I believe that was the Selkath.
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