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Zip has left the building.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 23, 2017 4:01:26 GMT
I would like us to consider five things.
1. Quality.
2. Time and resources spent.
3. Overall impact of the scenes themselves.
4. Presentation vs Alternative options such as fade to black.
5. Does it get in the way of story telling and can be a distraction.
So basically is the story/the game overall, better, or worse off for having detailed sex scenes.
Keeping in mind most people will not romance more than 1-2 LI's (No, not you specifically MOST PEOPLE.) I think the fade to black after a brief scene is the way to go.
It allows the story to continue without the romance becoming the cinematic focus towards the final moments.
Also frees up time and resources.
A mix of both.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 23, 2017 4:05:11 GMT
I really don't care about sex scenes. I'm a much bigger fan of lots of dialogue and certain lines that are "colored up" that makes the romance apparent.
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Post by Element Zero on May 23, 2017 4:12:40 GMT
The ever more involved romance arcs are a drain on creative energies. Fans demand to be catered to, and it creates needless feelings of obligation on the part of the writers. I'm not opposed to their inclusion; but I think they've become too big a focus for a portion of the BioWare fan base. Knowing how much some vocal fans are invested in these arcs, I think it's very difficult for BioWare to step away from them. I truly believe that some parts of the audience would not buy a game that didn't have romance arcs. Here's an interesting take from David Gaider, in the post-DA2 days, along with a link to my (secondhand) source. It's a quote of a quote, but it's accurate to the best of my knowledge. His feelings largely align with my own. (The specific question he was addressing was in regard to whether all characters should be "player-sexual". That's tangential to the focus of my post.) " Actually, I would not.
Surprising? Perhaps. If we had more resources, I suppose I wouldn’t mind allowing the player to try romancing every follower, but to allow them to successfully do so? No, I can’t say that appeals to me very much for two main reasons:
1) Romances are a side show, not the main game. Yes, some people like them a lot, and I have absolutely no beef with them doing so. In fact, it’s very gratifying. While I suppose a game could be made where the romantic plot takes a level of importance equal to that of the critical path, that has never been the case with the games BioWare makes. These plots are tertiary, optional content… something to add to your enjoyment, and add to your level of emotional investment in the characters… and that seems to get forgotten when people discuss it at length.
Such is the case whenever any piece of content gets discussed online. Under a microscope, whatever you’re discussing seems like all there is… and thus is clearly the most important thing ever. I cannot do that. I always have to keep my eye on the bigger picture, and there is an entire rest of the game that needs to be contended with… which includes a lot of elements that have much more pertinence to the game than who someone does or doesn’t get to have sex with. Romances are a nice extra, and naturally we’re always going to struggle with how to do them right, but they’re well down the list on things I need to concern myself with. I could, in fact, happily have a game without any romances at all… or spend an equal amount of time developing relationships with followers that are non-romantic.
Occasionally the focus on romances reaches such a fever pitch that idea seems rather attractive, actually. But only occasionally. [...]" Source: www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19213
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
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Post by kino on May 23, 2017 4:19:17 GMT
No? Well, maybe? I don't know, it sounds like a personal preference thing. I know some people, and I mean I actually know them in the world, for whom sex scenes in a game make them a little uncomfortable. A couple of them are parents, so I think that might be the biggest thing.
For others, though, it's a tangible culmination of pursuing a relationship in a game. Seems silly, when it's put in the context of a video game, but depending on how emotionally invested they are in the characters it can be a meaningful experience for them.
Personally, I'm okay with it either way. Do or don't, implied or realized, as long as I'm enjoying the game and it's a good fit to the story.
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Papa Franku
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Saving the Omniverse
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Papa Franku on May 23, 2017 4:22:07 GMT
Trying to force your alien friend to mate will only piss them off... Believe me I've tried to set up a mating program for the salarians after they've lost a lot of people, but nooo the cry about it being private and awkward 'n shit!
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Post by themikefest on May 23, 2017 4:22:26 GMT
For me, fade-to-black would be enough. Let the player imagine what happens.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 23, 2017 4:25:38 GMT
The scenes aren't that big of a deal but stop trying to cater every fucking different type of person out there just so they feel "included". No one is against whatever the hell you identify with but that doesn't mean the rest of the world has to cater to abnormalities. Just respect them.
I say that boldly bc this is where most of the whining comes from.
And if we want true equality as opposed to just getting "our way", yes get rid of the sex scenes all together. Because at this point there are a ton of variables to account for considering so many people are wired differently.
Which means someone will complain about quality which will lead Bioware to focus more resources towards this
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Post by KaiserShep on May 23, 2017 4:25:57 GMT
For me, fade-to-black would be enough. Let the player imagine what happens. I thought Isabela's dagger stripping was better than most if not all scenes across both franchises. But then, Izzy is the best LI, so no surprise there
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 4:32:35 GMT
I like romances and romantic and/or friendly banter between characters in the game. I like to be able to switch up the characters being romanced and the option to have the romance go smoothly or badly.
The sex scenes, however, are neither here nor there when it comes to all of that and I would prefer a good fade to black than a poorly choreographed sex scene or one that tries to get too explicit (and then generally just comes off as rather "forced" or "fake" or to seeing the characters lying stiff as boards in full armor on a bed).
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 4:34:43 GMT
A lot of the appeal of BioWare games is the characters - primarily followers and other team members - and the relationships developed with them and between them. I appreciate the fact that some of those relationships can take the form of romance.
That said, a few conversations that can take a romantic, rather than merely friendly, turn along with a bit of cuddling that fades to black would suffice for me. The sex scenes can die in a fire.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 23, 2017 4:40:59 GMT
A lot of the appeal of BioWare games is the characters - primarily followers and other team members - and the relationships developed with them and between them. I appreciate the fact that some of those relationships can take the form of romance. That said, a few conversations that can take a romantic, rather than merely friendly, turn along with a bit of cuddling that fades to black would suffice for me. The sex scenes can die in a fire. I would have easily traded Cora's scene for more dialogue all around (probably doesn't work that way, but I'd still make the trade dagnabbit) for the characters in general. Like, despite being relatively anemic compared to the squad options, I actually like Suvi's the best, which I didn't expect at all since it's just a handful of scenes.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on May 23, 2017 4:51:43 GMT
The ever more involved romance arcs are a drain on creative energies. Fans demand to be catered to, and it creates needless feelings of obligation on the part of the writers. I'm not opposed to their inclusion; but I think they've become too big a focus for a portion of the BioWare fan base. Knowing how much some vocal fans are invested in these arcs, I think it's very difficult for BioWare to step away from them. I truly believe that some parts of the audience would not buy a game that didn't have romance arcs. Here's an interesting take from David Gaider, in the post-DA2 days, along with a link to my (secondhand) source. It's a quote of a quote, but it's accurate to the best of my knowledge. His feelings largely align with my own. (The specific question he was addressing was in regard to whether all characters should be "player-sexual". That's tangential to the focus of my post.) " Actually, I would not.
Surprising? Perhaps. If we had more resources, I suppose I wouldn’t mind allowing the player to try romancing every follower, but to allow them to successfully do so? No, I can’t say that appeals to me very much for two main reasons:
1) Romances are a side show, not the main game. Yes, some people like them a lot, and I have absolutely no beef with them doing so. In fact, it’s very gratifying. While I suppose a game could be made where the romantic plot takes a level of importance equal to that of the critical path, that has never been the case with the games BioWare makes. These plots are tertiary, optional content… something to add to your enjoyment, and add to your level of emotional investment in the characters… and that seems to get forgotten when people discuss it at length.
Such is the case whenever any piece of content gets discussed online. Under a microscope, whatever you’re discussing seems like all there is… and thus is clearly the most important thing ever. I cannot do that. I always have to keep my eye on the bigger picture, and there is an entire rest of the game that needs to be contended with… which includes a lot of elements that have much more pertinence to the game than who someone does or doesn’t get to have sex with. Romances are a nice extra, and naturally we’re always going to struggle with how to do them right, but they’re well down the list on things I need to concern myself with. I could, in fact, happily have a game without any romances at all… or spend an equal amount of time developing relationships with followers that are non-romantic.
Occasionally the focus on romances reaches such a fever pitch that idea seems rather attractive, actually. But only occasionally. [...]" Source: www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19213Thread DONE.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
Prime Likes: 376
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Top
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Post by bshep on May 23, 2017 5:07:50 GMT
No need to. The game main focus is exploration and narrative, not being a dating sim/eroge. Relationships (either friendship/romance etecetera) are just a part of said narrative.
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gplayer
N3
I love nailing asari. So ageless and superior -- then you get them and they squeal like school girls
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Post by gplayer on May 23, 2017 5:12:56 GMT
I have mixed feelings on this. I appreciated the more detailed scenes of the OT and DAO, but are they really necessary? I don't know. I did like that those games were easier to mod and thus people were able to customize the scenes the way they wanted. My femRyder roped Reyes in to make certain there is every incentive to look after the outpost. But with the fade out you dont really know what happened, did they just make out? How about an erupting volcano cutscene or the nomad going through a tunnel.So I don't need a 5 minute soft core production, but I do need something. I hear Cora's scene is amazing, but I have not seen it. I had one playrthough where I romanced no one, and 2 where I romanced Reyes.
Of course fade to black is good for situations where the mechanics of mating is just too awkward. If in the future there is a maleRyder-femSalarian romance, will she lay her eggs and Scott has to aim to make sure he only hits 10% of them? What about with a Krogan? Fade to black sometimes is the best option!
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Kabraxal
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on May 23, 2017 5:13:45 GMT
No. If I can see these people kill and die and roleplay within that, I want the same for sex and romance. Does that mean every romance needs skin? No, but I actually found Cora's scene quite powerful and moving because it felt natural. And the post sex convo was one the best conversations in the franchise.
Felt the same with Inquisition. The scenes only added to the world. I would not trade them.
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Post by clips7 on May 23, 2017 5:29:07 GMT
I have no issues with detailed sex scenes...as long as they're done with some class...and for the most part the franchise has handled them quite well...Cora's Romance wasn't too bad. The full body naked shot was ok. I don't think we need to see characters actually engaging in the actual act itself tho....quick camera shots of the individuals kissing, rolling around and then fading works for me....
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Warrior DM
N3
The morning is for coffee and contemplation.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Warrior DM
Posts: 296 Likes: 536
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Warrior DM
The morning is for coffee and contemplation.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Warrior DM on May 23, 2017 5:39:41 GMT
I think sex scenes are perfectly fine if they aren't gratuitous.
"Romance" shouldn't really be an excuse for straight up porn.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 5:54:36 GMT
A lot of the appeal of BioWare games is the characters - primarily followers and other team members - and the relationships developed with them and between them. I appreciate the fact that some of those relationships can take the form of romance. That said, a few conversations that can take a romantic, rather than merely friendly, turn along with a bit of cuddling that fades to black would suffice for me. The sex scenes can die in a fire. I would have easily traded Cora's scene for more dialogue all around (probably doesn't work that way, but I'd still make the trade dagnabbit) for the characters in general. Like, despite being relatively anemic compared to the squad options, I actually like Suvi's the best, which I didn't expect at all since it's just a handful of scenes. I'm also very fond of Suvi's romance. It's really sweet, mostly because of their special meetings and conversations. I have mixed feelings on this. I appreciated the more detailed scenes of the OT and DAO, but are they really necessary? I don't know. I did like that those games were easier to mod and thus people were able to customize the scenes the way they wanted. My femRyder roped Reyes in to make certain there is every incentive to look after the outpost. But with the fade out you dont really know what happened, did they just make out? What actually happened is entirely up to you. Personally, I like it when RPGs don't make everything explicit, because it leaves me the opportunity to fill in the blanks, which greatly enhances my role-play.
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kalasaurus
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 519 Likes: 1,171
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Post by kalasaurus on May 23, 2017 6:16:18 GMT
Ehh, I have mixed feelings on this. I thought ME1's scenes were a happy medium, while the rolling around in underwear/underwear showers in ME3 were kind of comical. And, too much detail has the possibility of taking away from the romance itself, in my own opinion. When I got to Jaal's sex scene in the game, I was honestly expecting (and wanted) a fade to black after they hugged in the water. *puts on flame shield*... I laughed uncomfortably during that scene. It got weird.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Element Zero on May 23, 2017 6:23:27 GMT
Ehh, I have mixed feelings on this. I thought ME1's scenes were a happy medium, while the rolling around in underwear/underwear showers in ME3 were kind of comical. And, too much detail has the possibility of taking away from the romance itself, in my own opinion. When I got to Jaal's sex scene in the game, I was honestly expecting (and wanted) a fade to black after they hugged in the water. *puts on flame shield*... I laughed uncomfortably during that scene. It got weird. Agreed. The two explicit scenes, in my opinion, were Cora's and Jaal's. Cora's likely showed more than I needed to see; but the writing and animation were exceptional, so it was okay. Jaal's scene got very weird toward the end. It was too much. I don't want to see anything like that, again, in a video game.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 519 Likes: 1,171
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Post by kalasaurus on May 23, 2017 6:36:21 GMT
Ehh, I have mixed feelings on this. I thought ME1's scenes were a happy medium, while the rolling around in underwear/underwear showers in ME3 were kind of comical. And, too much detail has the possibility of taking away from the romance itself, in my own opinion. When I got to Jaal's sex scene in the game, I was honestly expecting (and wanted) a fade to black after they hugged in the water. *puts on flame shield*... I laughed uncomfortably during that scene. It got weird. Agreed. The two explicit scenes, in my opinion, were Cora's and Jaal's. Cora's likely showed more than I needed to see; but the writing and animation were exceptional, so it was okay. Jaal's scene got very weird toward the end. It was too much. I don't want to see anything like that, again, in a video game. I just looked up Cora's scene on YouTube since I likely won't get to it in the game anytime soon (I prefer playing female protagonists *shrug*), and I agree with you there. It was nicely and pretty tastefully done. I don't mind nudity in games, but not when things get into weird territory.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
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Post by wright1978 on May 23, 2017 8:23:58 GMT
No romances aren't a bad thing for the story.
Fade to black is utterly cheap immersion breaking.
I propose that every time a combat situation happens the screen should fade to black. That would free up time and resources to be devoted to the conversations & the sex scenes.
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NRieh
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Shine on!
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Post by NRieh on May 23, 2017 8:38:02 GMT
I really don't care about sex scenes. I'm a much bigger fan of lots of dialogue and certain lines that are "colored up" that makes the romance apparent. Actually, I think MEA did good about it. Plenty of romance-sensitive moments and lines, with even more lines and moments PRETENDING to be romance-sensitive. E.g. Gill helping Ryder to suit up before the certain mission or Liam commenting on SAM's 'solution to a problem' on a Kett's flagship - they work ok\neutral if not in the romance, but they also work with the romance arcs perfectly well.
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kumazan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 772 Likes: 1,553
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Post by kumazan on May 23, 2017 8:55:21 GMT
I'd rather they free up resources from "fetch 10 lyrium potions to the mage collective" type quests than from romances. Sex scenes are OK as long as they don't feel cheap/gratuitous.
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kumazan
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 772 Likes: 1,553
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by kumazan on May 23, 2017 9:12:34 GMT
I'd rather they free up resources from "fetch 10 lyrium potions to the mage collective" type quests than from romances. Sex scenes are OK as long as they don't feel cheap/gratuitous. The main reason for why fetch quests of this type exist, is that they cost almost no resources to make, and can be used to as time-wasters and padding for the game. I know. It's still a non-zero amount thay could be better used though.
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