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Post by abaris on Jun 2, 2017 22:56:06 GMT
Where can you tell the Catalyst "You're solutions are bullsh*t." "Your logic is flawed" "You have become what you were designed to stop" The closest we get is Refusal, and that simply leads to Bioware's tantrum about ending-haters Which should have been an option, based on previous choices. Truth is, they painted themselves into a corner and couldn't be arsed to provide different solutions to different playthroughs, which more or less rendered all your choices obsolete. But that's water under the bridge. At least they didn't screw up MEAs ending. I'm pretty content if they don't do a second MEA, and if they're continuing the series, they can just as well find another new approach, just as they did with the DA series.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 3, 2017 0:07:13 GMT
I have no idea what you mean by that. You can tell Saren he's indoctrinated, that you'd "rather die than live as a slave" You can't tell TIM (eventually) that you won't follow his lead, and will save the galaxy your own way. You can even spout defiance at Harbinger in the Arrival DLC Where can you tell the Catalyst "You're solutions are bullsh*t." "Your logic is flawed" "You have become what you were designed to stop" The closest we get is Refusal, and that simply leads to Bioware's tantrum about ending-haters As often happens, I regret not being more verbose there. I should have said that I don't see how the "disbelief isn't meaningful" conclusion could possibly follow from the premise. ( Moving from "X isn't meaningful" to "X doesn't exist" isn't legit either, but I admire rhetorical sleight-of-hand.) Of course, "your solutions are bullshit" wouldn't make for a very satisfying argument anyway. The Catalyst could just reply "Don't look at me; you guys built the Crucible, not me."
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Post by Iakus on Jun 3, 2017 0:34:20 GMT
You can tell Saren he's indoctrinated, that you'd "rather die than live as a slave" You can't tell TIM (eventually) that you won't follow his lead, and will save the galaxy your own way. You can even spout defiance at Harbinger in the Arrival DLC Where can you tell the Catalyst "You're solutions are bullsh*t." "Your logic is flawed" "You have become what you were designed to stop" The closest we get is Refusal, and that simply leads to Bioware's tantrum about ending-haters As often happens, I regret not being more verbose there. I should have said that I don't see how the "disbelief isn't meaningful" conclusion could possibly follow from the premise. ( Moving from "X isn't meaningful" to "X doesn't exist" isn't legit either, but I admire rhetorical sleight-of-hand.) Of course, "your solutions are bullshit" wouldn't make for a very satisfying argument anyway. The Catalyst could just reply "Don't look at me; you guys built the Crucible, not me." Because I don't think we were meant to disbelieve. I think we were supposed to lap up Starbrat's "solutions" and not question their logic or validity. Thus SHepard's disbelief didn't exist, even if the players did. And thus no meaningful way to express it. And I think Bioware took umbrage at the audience for daring to question them.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 3, 2017 1:28:13 GMT
The refusal ending was everything i was hoping it was. Win lose or draw at least we challenged them.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jun 3, 2017 1:39:13 GMT
The farts BioWare were smelling when they made it.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 3, 2017 4:55:14 GMT
As often happens, I regret not being more verbose there. I should have said that I don't see how the "disbelief isn't meaningful" conclusion could possibly follow from the premise. ( Moving from "X isn't meaningful" to "X doesn't exist" isn't legit either, but I admire rhetorical sleight-of-hand.) Of course, "your solutions are bullshit" wouldn't make for a very satisfying argument anyway. The Catalyst could just reply "Don't look at me; you guys built the Crucible, not me." Because I don't think we were meant to disbelieve. I think we were supposed to lap up Starbrat's "solutions" and not question their logic or validity. Thus SHepard's disbelief didn't exist, even if the players did. And thus no meaningful way to express it. And I think Bioware took umbrage at the audience for daring to question them. Yeah, I remember that you had hurt feelings about Refuse. I still don't see why Bio shouldn't have given us a Refuse option, even though you don't like it. You were still exactly where you were before, except for having an additional option. The rest is a bit meta for me. I'm as willing to speculate about design intent as anybody, but it's got nothing much to do with playing my characters. (Except in the sense that I know Bio won't do certain things, like having a race against time actually be a race against time.) Even if I shared your feeling there, it wouldn't have anything to do with my Shepards' belief or lack thereof. Or is the real question what counts as "meaningful"? That's so subjective I don't know what to do with it.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jun 3, 2017 8:48:12 GMT
I would hope this game is not physically "AIMED" at anyone.
That said I believe the game was most likely had things gutted to make it viable for as big a crowd as possible. Incoherence was the byproduct of those gut-ments.
Like the old Babylon 5 series that some say had horrible CGI & the stories were compelling enough. Which by comparison to the opponent series of ST DS9 that some say had good CGI overload & the story many times fell flat. And there counter parts that say the opposite... it simply comes down to: You can try but many times you can't please everyone.
Worse thing ever is if you try to please all like combining the two shows above together then you get the Andromeda Ascendant fiasco. One proof that it does not always work.
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Post by abaris on Jun 3, 2017 9:00:32 GMT
Worse thing ever is if you try to please all like combining the two shows above together then you get the Andromeda Ascendant fiasco. One proof that it does not always work. Normally any company developing a new product has a certain target audience in mind. But I'm not sure with Bioware anymore. Not sure because DAI was a very good game in my mind, which I replayed numerous times without getting bored. So I certainly fit the audience they had in mind, whatever that may have been. While I still consider MEA a good game, I don't feel the same itch replaying it. It feels bland in comparison. Also as compared to ME3. I'm pretty sure they tried to please as broad a base as possible, without really exciting a great many people.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 3, 2017 14:47:22 GMT
Worse thing ever is if you try to please all like combining the two shows above together then you get the Andromeda Ascendant fiasco. One proof that it does not always work. Normally any company developing a new product has a certain target audience in mind. But I'm not sure with Bioware anymore. Not sure because DAI was a very good game in my mind, which I replayed numerous times without getting bored. So I certainly fit the audience they had in mind, whatever that may have been. While I still consider MEA a good game, I don't feel the same itch replaying it. It feels bland in comparison. Also as compared to ME3. I'm pretty sure they tried to please as broad a base as possible, without really exciting a great many people. The question, then, is what caused the blandness. What's your guess? Just poor execution, or is there something wrong in the design intent?
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Post by abaris on Jun 3, 2017 15:15:40 GMT
The question, then, is what caused the blandness. What's your guess? Just poor execution, or is there something wrong in the design intent? I said it in different threads already. For me it boils down to the companions. With DAI I pretty much liked them all and had a hard time figuring out who to take on the next mission. With MEA I find myself mainly using Drack and Cora. Drack may be the only character I really like, but that's not the main reason for taking him. It's that he actually makes a difference in a fight, same as Cora. I also never had that feeling of not wanting to talk to any companion. Neither with the Normandy crew nor with the ones residing at Skyhold.
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Post by armass81 on Jun 3, 2017 15:50:23 GMT
Normally any company developing a new product has a certain target audience in mind. But I'm not sure with Bioware anymore. Not sure because DAI was a very good game in my mind, which I replayed numerous times without getting bored. So I certainly fit the audience they had in mind, whatever that may have been. While I still consider MEA a good game, I don't feel the same itch replaying it. It feels bland in comparison. Also as compared to ME3. I'm pretty sure they tried to please as broad a base as possible, without really exciting a great many people. The question, then, is what caused the blandness. What's your guess? Just poor execution, or is there something wrong in the design intent? Too many similar things with OT. Same conflicts in different light. Even the characters are kinda repeats, you have a young asari looking for ancient stuff and a krogan badass (again). Whats next game gonna have? A salarian scientist, a drell assassin, quarian exile? So original? The new aliens are boring and theres too few of them. There should have been at least 6 new races, which wwould be different from one another, including a truly primitive one where you could have had a true first contact with all the great and morally difficult stuff. Instead we get the draenavi and bony klingon covenant, and some random killbots. Angara are not fully realized, and the kett come of just as a bland enemy. Theyre like klingons, but even the klingons in Star Trek Tos were at least written better and had great characters like Kang and Kor. And th remnant are just robots you shoot, theyre not half as intresting as geth, theyre more like the mechs from ME2, or the mechs from Halo (seriously never again take a Halo writer in Mass Effect, let them fuck up their own series, i dont care.). Recycled things, enemies, animals and quests on the planets. And did i mention the boring villain, even 30 years ago this villain would have been cliche. Something you see in the cartoons. And the pay off of all that exploring is what? You get a planet named after you? What about the plot threads? What happened to jardaan, why did they create the angara? Who created the scourge and why? Whats the deal with the primus? At least ME1 answered something, it didnt just elave us in the dark mostly, at the end of MEA youre pretty much "Thats it? Thats all there was to this one damn cluster in Andromeda? What the hell?", oh yeah buy dlc.... If its even coming now. This game is still ME tough, like the trilogy(or at least 2 latter games of it), it screams "lost potential".
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Post by beholderess on Jun 6, 2017 15:26:04 GMT
To me, the laidback tone and likeable characters in this game is exactly what I adore about it. I am 28
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Post by CHRrOME on Jun 6, 2017 16:39:27 GMT
For the original question, I have a very easy answer: a wider audience. I dare to say that 99% of the companies these days try to appeal to the "wider audience" . Casuals and veterans alike. Please everyone a little bit, piss everyone a lot, that's how it ends up working often times unfortunately. Fallout 4 did it, Skyrim technically did it too, Witcher 3 did it on a smaller degree. They all try to appeal to as many people as possible, it translates into sales.
Problem with that is that you need to work even harder if you want to make the game just as good for everyone. Dumb something down, the casuals may agree, but the veterans wont. Improve a complex mechanic, veterans would love it, but casuals will feel overwhelmed. I'd like companies to stay truth to their franchises instead to try to bring more people into the fold. But from a sales standpoint they want as many people buying their games as possible, even if that means selling the game's/franchise soul on the process.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 6, 2017 18:05:02 GMT
To me, the laidback tone and likeable characters in this game is exactly what I adore about it. I am 28 34 here and I agree.
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Post by abaris on Jun 6, 2017 18:23:25 GMT
Fallout 4 did it, Skyrim technically did it too, The difference being, if you're on the PC at least, you have more than 17.000 mods to choose from. Many of them high quality works of passion, without any money involved, which really make these games so much better by adding what should have been in it right from the start and ironing out the flaws the company never bothered to patch.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 6, 2017 18:55:16 GMT
I dunno.... don't you have to actually like Skyrim to want more Skyrim?
I played it --$5 on Steam, so why not? -- and had an OK tine. But to actually spend tine looking through those 17000 mods.....
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Post by CHRrOME on Jun 6, 2017 21:10:57 GMT
Fallout 4 did it, Skyrim technically did it too, The difference being, if you're on the PC at least, you have more than 17.000 mods to choose from. Many of them high quality works of passion, without any money involved, which really make these games so much better by adding what should have been in it right from the start and ironing out the flaws the company never bothered to patch. I'm not defending this practice (casualization of games), mind you. Just saying how I feel things are these days in this industry. That being said, I totally agree. For Bethesda games, is always up to the community to fix (when possible) their mistakes. Witcher 3 also has quite a few mods that fix crap mechanics in the game like the potion mechanic.
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Post by abaris on Jun 6, 2017 21:18:04 GMT
I'm sure you didn't defend it. My point was rather the difference between what you see is what you get and what you see will be improved over time. That is the main difference between Bethesda games, being on the PC, and Bioware games. With Bethesda, unless they change their policies of moddability or switch to not moddable engine, that's a selling point for me. It's also not so much that I didn't get what I expected with Andromeda. It's that it was delivered in a more boring way than in previous games. DAI also didn't reinvent the RPG wheel, but the presentation was much more engaging than with this one.
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Post by laudable11 on Jun 6, 2017 21:52:41 GMT
As far as the original question is concerned. This game as made for ill adjusted weebs who die their hair pink, blue and green.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 6, 2017 21:59:44 GMT
As far as the original question is concerned. This game as made for ill adjusted weebs who die their hair pink, blue and green.
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Post by sevalaricgirl on Jun 6, 2017 23:39:55 GMT
The writing and characters are so infantile anyone over the age of 13 would not find them acceptable but the level of language and sex in the game make it inappropriate for kids. The tone and content of this game are like oil and water. LGBTQ though I don't know wha the Q stands for.
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Post by shechinah on Jun 6, 2017 23:59:33 GMT
LGBTQ though I don't know wha the Q stands for.Queer or Questioning.
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Post by ozzie on Jun 7, 2017 14:42:50 GMT
To me, the laidback tone and likeable characters in this game is exactly what I adore about it. I am 28 To me it's exactly the opposite, I like my Sci-fi gritty and serious and I prefer characters to be dull or flawed but to grow on you over time. My favourite Sci-fi characters are a veritable rouges gallery of sociopaths, cowards and spiteful alcoholics. (something I only just realised that's pretty f**ked up)
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 7, 2017 15:01:24 GMT
To me, the laidback tone and likeable characters in this game is exactly what I adore about it. I am 28 To me it's exactly the opposite, I like my Sci-fi gritty and serious and I prefer characters to be dull or flawed but to grow on you over time. My favourite Sci-fi characters are a veritable rouges gallery of sociopaths, cowards and spiteful alcoholics. (something I only just realised that's pretty f**ked up) I can take either. I like both BSG and Guardians, but not all at the same time. The setting, the narrative, and the characters all have to fit together and make sense. MEA tried to mix things together too much, a serious setting, a gritty narrative, and funny happy go lucky characters. You know why the characters in GotG work? Because the rest of the setting supports that. You have a demi-god planet dad space surfing and blowing up whole fleets of ships while your cartoon sidekick dances to 70's music during a space monster fight montage. They didn't just drop Peter into the middle of Return of the Jedi as the protagonist and say "yeah that worked".
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Post by ozzie on Jun 7, 2017 15:31:54 GMT
I can take either. I like both BSG and Guardians, but not all at the same time. The setting, the narrative, and the characters all have to fit together and make sense. MEA tried to mix things together too much, a serious setting, a gritty narrative, and funny happy go lucky characters. You know why the characters in GotG work? Because the rest of the setting supports that. You have a demi-god planet dad space surfing and blowing up whole fleets of ships while your cartoon sidekick dances to 70's music during a space monster fight montage. They didn't just drop Peter into the middle of Return of the Jedi as the protagonist and say "yeah that worked". Agree, I haven't see the new GotG yet, I liked the previous one and it's characters, however I approached it as a comic book hero movie set in space rather than a sci-fi or space opera, so got pretty much what I expected.
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