Patch 1.08 notes and discussion (June 8, 8AM PDT)

Okay so should patch Suvi to be bi or Sera in DAI because they was bi options at first as well. I don't have a problem with Jaal being bi I have a problem with them addressing it over fixing stuff that effect far more people.

I'm still waiting for the CC improvments. I think Bioware forgot to add the rest of it the recent  patch lol. 

You're confused about the ROI metrics in play. Changing Jaal fixed a problem with the design vision not being implemented properly. Changing Suvi wouldn't fix anything like that, because straight male Ryders already got what Bio intended to deliver..

Also, when was Sera bi? She's got quite a few lines which make it clear that she's not really down with the whole penis thing. Were those added late in development?

They will never, ever be able to play that card again, that's for sure.

Hello just collecting salt, is my food  

My bad. I should have walked people through the debate rather than assume familiarity with it.

The vision I'm referring to has nothing much to do with Jaal, because it pre-dates him. The idea was that whatever your preferred gender or orientation for Ryder, you'd have equal romance options available. The main problem is that while the devs thought that squadmate and non-squadmate romances were equal in quality, many fans disagreed. (There were some amusingly confused conversations at cons about this.) The secondary problem was the achievement not working for players who only play gay male Ryders. Making Jaal bi fixes both of these issues.

I don't believe in the Word of God - the information is only canon if it's in the base game, at the release. The fans don't have to venture into twitter or anywhere else in order to learn the canon facts. The players who only started the game recently and/or don't go to twitter much would have a hard time discovering stuff like that. But I'm not trying to make Suvi bi - she's lesbian and should be kept as such, same as Jaal should have been kept straight. My point was that if in some fans' opinion Jaal should have been made bi because he had some code to support that, then Suvi should be no different. 

Could we get a source for that? Doesn't sound like any information I've heard about. If it's true, then I don't even know what to call the devs. How can gay players be happy with this treatment I have no idea. Now this is definitely the last Bioware game I spent money on.

But what "original intent" are we talking about if they basically had to rewrite Jaal to make him work for Scott? If they always had bi Jaal in mind as a backup in case of the fans' outrage, why would they even spend time on his flirts with other ladies if they knew they would most likely have to take them out? And what "new scenes and dialogues" if he was planned as bi from the start? Sorry, but that doesn't seem plausible to me, and if it is real, then these devs are even worse than I thought.

I know I keep saying this, but none of this stuff matters if it wasn't there at the release. What they did with Jaal is redesigning, not "patching" and I find it baffling that they spent so much time and effort - not to mention resources - on that and not on things that actually need fixing.

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But in case you do then I think you're missing what a lot of these posts are about. The negative reaction is not towards bisexuality: the negative reaction is towards a character being rewritten for meta reasons post-release. This reaction would remain regardless of what Jaal’s sexuality was and was changed to. This same reaction would exist if a gay character was rewritten to be straight. I've objected to that idea in the past just as I objected to this. If Jaal had been bisexual from the start then I, and I know others, would have been fine with it. 

I really don't think they thought this through. At least, not beyond 'it'll keep a portion of the fans happy! That's a win, right?'.

I would prefer if we bitched about the almost nonexistent improvement to CC personally. We all said what can be said about Jaal 20 pages and been running around in a circle since.

I started a new play through in DAI and even with a lack of black hair color(I have no idea how black didn't make it as a hair color option) it is light years ahead of MEA. They seriously should have just copy/paste it into the game.

Yeah would have been nice to see them spend more than a half hour worth of time on the CC updates.  At the very least a selection of new presets, skin complexions, and hairstyles would have added something that mod'ers hadn't already.