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Post by ozzie on Jun 10, 2017 17:06:00 GMT
So I will say it again, the worlds and hubs in Mass Effect Andromeda are LIFELESS and feels like a movie set with stationary NPCs who have no individual routines other than to serve as visual props to make it seem like certain locations are populated. Majestic, I got what you meant on your OP, but beside that, who made the creative decision that they were going to move ME to a new galaxy and then make the new galaxy dead? You would have thought that as soon as the project director said "And its going to be set in a new galaxy..." all the creative types would have scampered off, locked themselves away with a sketchpad and coffee IV jammed into their veins and emerged about a week later, dishevelled, pasty with bloodshot eyes gibbering like maniacs about the new worlds and species they had created.... this would be about the point where the project director made sure his path to the fire escape was clear and announced, "This is all great, but we have made an artistic decision to go with desert, mesa desert and polar wastes, for the alien life we feel pretty confident we can get away with gorilla, velocoraptor, dog." before grabbing a chair and backing toward the door.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 17:39:25 GMT
Very well laid out post OP, and accurate on all points. I would imagine all veteran Bioware fans who have been there from when Bioware took it's first shaky steps would agree.Not this veteran. Also, why would that have anything to do with anything? Not this one either. Played and modded Bio game and I specifically appreciate it that Andromeda is a return to those very shaky roots. Montreal is the closest to the legendary basement-made BG1 in its spirit, and to the last game before BioWARE's start exploded into a supernova, the Jade Empire. It also have plenty in common with DA:O that I am replaying in parallel with another run of Andromeda. You can absolutely criticize BioWARE for not quite boarding the current bandwagon of dark'ish games with a fixed angsty protagonist and Bad Old Times glorification and not staying in tune with whatever makes the most of the demographics now, not being sensitive enough to the vagaries of modern taste and stumbling on the tight-rope of mores, or for not allocating enough resources to support the project of that size, but not for delivering something that is not as essentially BW as Candlekeep.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jun 10, 2017 17:45:27 GMT
Not this veteran. Also, why would that have anything to do with anything? Not this one either. Played and modded Bio game and I specifically appreciate it that Andromeda is a return to those very shaky roots. Montreal is the closest to the legendary basement-made BG1 in its spirit, and to the last game before BioWARE's start exploded into a supernova, the Jade Empire. It also have plenty in common with DA:O that I am replaying in parallel with another run of Andromeda. You can absolutely criticize BioWARE for not quite boarding the current bandwagon of dark'ish games with a fixed angsty protagonist and Bad Old Times glorification and not staying in tune with whatever makes the most of the demographics now, not being sensitive enough to the vagaries of modern taste and stumbling on the tight-rope of mores, or for not allocating enough resources to support the project of that size, but not for delivering something that is not as essentially BW as Candlekeep. Funny how you say Bioware is not boarding the current bandwagon of darkish games but yet it was Bioware that admitted to jumping onto the Skyrim/open world band-wagon with DAI because they wanted to ride the success wave of open world that Skyrim created. Point is, this is a business and appealing to the demographics that will lure in the greater return on investment is a BUSINESS decision that will be made by EA. Gamers got tired of the futuristic shooters....so EA gave us Battlefield 1 set in WWI and now we are getting a WWII Call of Duty Game. It isn't a fluke why Horizon and TW3 are viewed as great games while MEA is seen as below the standard and average at best.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 17:51:40 GMT
Likewise, except I thought Andromeda was trash. G ood post OP - lotta people feel like you, but they aren't on this forum which is more about circle jerking Andromeda.
"Like a blind man at an orgy, we're going to have to feel things out." - Frank Drebin I wouldn't say this place is about circle jerking Andromeda, but I have noticed that it has become somewhat of an echochamer of positive MEA thought which isn't a bad thing, but it is interesting to come here and see how 90%+ of the discussion is more positive about MEA and any prospects of future ME titles while everyone else outside this forum tends to be more critical of MEA. I am not looking to start any fights. All I want to do is offer my opinions as to why MEA does not live up to what I expect today in 2017 from a AAA WRPG especially after playing Witcher 3 which IMO raised the bar for non JRPG gaming and I believe that when Cyberpunk 2077 comes out, it will be a product full of quality that will once again raise the bar for RPGs. Bioware used to be that developer that would raise the bar and set the standards, now it seems like they are trying to catch up with others seeing how DAI was an attempt to ride the coats of the Skyrim success. I am not saying MEA was a failure, but it is telling that after 3 months of being released, EA has yet to say ANYTHING about any success (financial or critical) about MEA and yet only 2 months after the release of DAI, EA was making it known just how will DAI sold and the records it broke. If I had to be honest, the future for ME is more bleak than positive. I feel that Bioware will continue to patch the game and release a story DLC or two, and then after than let the IP finally rest after a long 10-year run and then focus on DA4 and new IPs. But yeah, it is a bit hard here to be criticle about Andromeda cause this place has become a save haven for all people who enjoy Andromeda and any critical discussion about the game is always met with disdain. It is almost the reverse of the old BSN where most of the talk was negative and any positive discussion was met with disdain. Are we reading the same forum - 90% positive discussion going on here... what I see are people starting negative thread after negative thread (like this one). The few positive ones get drowned out to page 2 pretty quickly or get overrun with negative discussion. We had 2 threads started in the last couple of days with the express purpose of thanking Bioware for the game... and both were overrun by critics of the game basically objecting to people expressing their gratitude for the game. I don't see how that adds up to being anywhere near 90% positivism. This forum is a sea of negativity with a few people trying to inject some positive balance into the mix.
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Post by kino on Jun 10, 2017 17:56:49 GMT
Not this veteran. Also, why would that have anything to do with anything? Not this one either. Played and modded Bio game and I specifically appreciate it that Andromeda is a return to those very shaky roots. Montreal is the closest to the legendary basement-made BG1 in its spirit, and to the last game before BioWARE's start exploded into a supernova, the Jade Empire. It also have plenty in common with DA:O that I am replaying in parallel with another run of Andromeda. You can absolutely criticize BioWARE for not quite boarding the current bandwagon of dark'ish games with a fixed angsty protagonist and Bad Old Times glorification and not staying in tune with whatever makes the most of the demographics now, not being sensitive enough to the vagaries of modern taste and stumbling on the tight-rope of mores, or for not allocating enough resources to support the project of that size, but not for delivering something that is not as essentially BW as Candlekeep. Nor this one. I can appreciate what BioWare was attempting to achieve here and strongly believe they've set up a helluva framework for the franchise.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 18:00:26 GMT
Not this one either. Played and modded Bio game and I specifically appreciate it that Andromeda is a return to those very shaky roots. Montreal is the closest to the legendary basement-made BG1 in its spirit, and to the last game before BioWARE's start exploded into a supernova, the Jade Empire. It also have plenty in common with DA:O that I am replaying in parallel with another run of Andromeda. You can absolutely criticize BioWARE for not quite boarding the current bandwagon of dark'ish games with a fixed angsty protagonist and Bad Old Times glorification and not staying in tune with whatever makes the most of the demographics now, not being sensitive enough to the vagaries of modern taste and stumbling on the tight-rope of mores, or for not allocating enough resources to support the project of that size, but not for delivering something that is not as essentially BW as Candlekeep. Funny how you say Bioware is not boarding the current bandwagon of darkish games but yet it was Bioware that admitted to jumping onto the Skyrim/open world band-wagon with DAI because they wanted to ride the success wave of open world that Skyrim created. Point is, this is a business and appealing to the demographics that will lure in the greater return on investment is a BUSINESS decision that will be made by EA. Gamers got tired of the futuristic shooters....so EA gave us Battlefield 1 set in WWI and now we are getting a WWII Call of Duty Game. It isn't a fluke why Horizon and TW3 are viewed as great games while MEA is seen as below the standard and average at best. And once they make it, there will be no more games left to play for someone who prefers something different, all games will be the same stuff set against the different backdrop. Somehow, we manage to read all kinds of books, watch all kind of movies. You are literally attempting to say that to sell they should comply. I have no quarrel with your tastes or your disappointment. I however disagree with the directive for Bio to turn into CDPR. After all, CDPR fought hard its own battle to be CDPR, not BioWARE 2. So did Obsidian, and it even had a small triumph last year of keeping what made it Obsidian, and being celebrated for it. Copying someone else's success may seem like wisdom, but it really is not. And, as consumers, in the end, we benefit from diversity of offerings, rather than distinctive "sameness". And, imo, Inquisition is a very sad story of BioWARE trying to be someone else, winning critical acclaim for it, but starting to lose its identity in the process. Andromeda is a step in direction of regaining it.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jun 10, 2017 18:10:19 GMT
Funny how you say Bioware is not boarding the current bandwagon of darkish games but yet it was Bioware that admitted to jumping onto the Skyrim/open world band-wagon with DAI because they wanted to ride the success wave of open world that Skyrim created. Point is, this is a business and appealing to the demographics that will lure in the greater return on investment is a BUSINESS decision that will be made by EA. Gamers got tired of the futuristic shooters....so EA gave us Battlefield 1 set in WWI and now we are getting a WWII Call of Duty Game. It isn't a fluke why Horizon and TW3 are viewed as great games while MEA is seen as below the standard and average at best. Copying someone else's success may seem like wisdom, but it really is not. And, as consumers, in the end, we benefit from diversity of offerings, rather than distinctive "sameness". Again, funny because with Mass Effect 2, Bioware was very clear that they wanted to imitate the combat from Gears of War for Mass Effect 2. In the end, ME2 is viewed by many as the best Mass Effect title. Funny isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 18:24:56 GMT
Copying someone else's success may seem like wisdom, but it really is not. And, as consumers, in the end, we benefit from diversity of offerings, rather than distinctive "sameness". Again, funny because with Mass Effect 2, Bioware was very clear that they wanted to imitate the combat from Gears of War for Mass Effect 2. In the end, ME2 is viewed by many as the best Mass Effect title. Funny isn't it? ME2 is primarily remembered for its combat? And those "many" specifically liked the fact that they have copied another developer? So, you are championing even further the uniformity among all game titles. (Shrug) Well, this is not the first and the last time when someone tried to regulate the arts, and tell what is "beautiful" and what is not; or in your case, what will sell. But popularity is short lived. After all, you have not even played Baldur's Gate. And neither should you, its time has passed. But it's 2017, and we can still play a game with a customization for a protagonist, party, hopeful setting and have fun. Or some other game that has different set up, and have fun. Perhaps, in the future, the games will not be as expensive to make, so the pressure to sell massive amounts will be less, so we will see games that can more and more afford to speak to its own audience, not try to please an edgy teen with zip to his name, and a sweet grayhaired lady who is bored with prosperity and quietude alike, an old boy ripping his shirt over his chest in his nostalgia for old values and an up and coming libertarian looking ahead to something different.
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Post by ozzie on Jun 10, 2017 18:30:10 GMT
And once they make it, there will be no more games left to play for someone who prefers something different, all games will be the same stuff set against the different backdrop. Somehow, we manage to read all kinds of books, watch all kind of movies. You are literally attempting to say that to sell they should comply. I have no quarrel with your tastes or your disappointment. I however disagree with the directive for Bio to turn into CDPR. After all, CDPR fought hard its own battle to be CDPR, not BioWARE 2. So did Obsidian, and it even had a small triumph last year of keeping what made it Obsidian, and being celebrated for it. Copying someone else's success may seem like wisdom, but it really is not. And, as consumers, in the end, we benefit from diversity of offerings, rather than distinctive "sameness". And, imo, Inquisition is a very sad story of BioWARE trying to be someone else, winning critical acclaim for it, but starting to lose its identity in the process. Andromeda is a step in direction of regaining it. I don't think anybody would have complained, let alone noticed if BioWare had taken on some of CDPR's attention to detail and worldcrafting... but the similarities between the Omnitool in ME:A and Geralts witcher senses seemed a bit on the nose to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 18:37:05 GMT
And once they make it, there will be no more games left to play for someone who prefers something different, all games will be the same stuff set against the different backdrop. Somehow, we manage to read all kinds of books, watch all kind of movies. You are literally attempting to say that to sell they should comply. I have no quarrel with your tastes or your disappointment. I however disagree with the directive for Bio to turn into CDPR. After all, CDPR fought hard its own battle to be CDPR, not BioWARE 2. So did Obsidian, and it even had a small triumph last year of keeping what made it Obsidian, and being celebrated for it. Copying someone else's success may seem like wisdom, but it really is not. And, as consumers, in the end, we benefit from diversity of offerings, rather than distinctive "sameness". And, imo, Inquisition is a very sad story of BioWARE trying to be someone else, winning critical acclaim for it, but starting to lose its identity in the process. Andromeda is a step in direction of regaining it. I don't think anybody would have complained, let alone noticed if BioWare had taken on some of CDPR's attention to detail and worldcrafting... but the similarities between the Omnitool in ME:A and Geralts witcher senses seemed a bit on the nose to me. Sure, I agree, it's better to let Witcher be the Witcher, and not copy over. Better do their own thing as much as possible.
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Post by abaris on Jun 10, 2017 18:37:29 GMT
Again, funny because with Mass Effect 2, Bioware was very clear that they wanted to imitate the combat from Gears of War for Mass Effect 2. In the end, ME2 is viewed by many as the best Mass Effect title. Funny isn't it? Seeing as combat never was a selling point for me with any game, I don't see how it makes a difference. Yes, combat in MEA is superior to ME2. But the rest, or better the part really interesting me, is worse.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jun 10, 2017 18:48:17 GMT
Again, funny because with Mass Effect 2, Bioware was very clear that they wanted to imitate the combat from Gears of War for Mass Effect 2. In the end, ME2 is viewed by many as the best Mass Effect title. Funny isn't it? ME2 is primarily remembered for its combat? And those "many" specifically liked the fact that they have copied another developer? So, you are championing even further the uniformity among all game titles. (Shrug) No, I am not championing anything. I am only countering what you said earlier about it not making sense when developers imitate other developers. I countered your argument by bringing up the fact that ME2 which is seen as the most popular ME title, actually imitated the combat style from Gears of War. At the end of the day, ME2 was still Mass Effect and still a Bioware-style title despite the fact that they took ideas/concepts from other games. Horizon: Zero Dawn and Witcher 3 have both raised the bar for non-JRPG games. Both of those games were financial successes. If Bioware wants future ME titles to be financial successes, they cannot continue to go about things the way they currently do.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jun 10, 2017 18:51:46 GMT
Again, funny because with Mass Effect 2, Bioware was very clear that they wanted to imitate the combat from Gears of War for Mass Effect 2. In the end, ME2 is viewed by many as the best Mass Effect title. Funny isn't it? Seeing as combat never was a selling point for me with any game, I don't see how it makes a difference. Yes, combat in MEA is superior to ME2. But the rest, or better the part really interesting me, is worse. The combat in ME2 was not a selling point, but it was a focal point....there is a difference. Remember, ME1 was never intended to be an all out RPG but rather an ACTION-RPG. With ME1, it was priased on all fronts and one of the few critical areas was it's combat. With ME2, the team decided that to bring up the combat to the same level as their story/characters, they needed to use a combat style that was popular at the time.....which was the cover based combat of Gears of War. Yes, MEA has better combat than ME2, but MEA lacks in many other areas like story and characters. ME2 on the other hand was a better game cause it was a more balanced game. It had great combat, great story, great characters and so on.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Jun 10, 2017 18:53:19 GMT
Again, funny because with Mass Effect 2, Bioware was very clear that they wanted to imitate the combat from Gears of War for Mass Effect 2. In the end, ME2 is viewed by many as the best Mass Effect title. Funny isn't it? ME2 is primarily remembered for its combat? And those "many" specifically liked the fact that they have copied another developer? So, you are championing even further the uniformity among all game titles. (Shrug) Well, this is not the first and the last time when someone tried to regulate the arts, and tell what is "beautiful" and what is not; or in your case, what will sell. But popularity is short lived. After all, you have not even played Baldur's Gate. And neither should you, its time has passed. But it's 2017, and we can still play a game with a customization for a protagonist, party, hopeful setting and have fun. Or some other game that has different set up, and have fun. Perhaps, in the future, the games will not be as expensive to make, so the pressure to sell massive amounts will be less, so we will see games that can more and more afford to speak to its own audience, not try to please an edgy teen with zip to his name, and a sweet grayhaired lady who is bored with prosperity and quietude alike, an old boy ripping his shirt over his chest in his nostalgia for old values and an up and coming libertarian looking ahead to something different. It's combat and corridor style approach aka I call it the gears of war bullshit is most definitely what I remember from it. It was a 180 from ME1s focus and it streamlined the experience into action focus which naturally grabs more of the general crowds attention. Considering there are people here today who don't give a damn about story or characters so long as combat is great I'd say ME2+3 did its job.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 19:03:37 GMT
Seeing as combat never was a selling point for me with any game, I don't see how it makes a difference. Yes, combat in MEA is superior to ME2. But the rest, or better the part really interesting me, is worse. The combat in ME2 was not a selling point, but it was a focal point....there is a difference. Remember, ME1 was never intended to be an all out RPG but rather an ACTION-RPG. With ME1, it was priased on all fronts and one of the few critical areas was it's combat. With ME2, the team decided that to bring up the combat to the same level as their story/characters, they needed to use a combat style that was popular at the time.....which was the cover based combat of Gears of War. Yes, MEA has better combat than ME2, but MEA lacks in many other areas like story and characters. ME2 on the other hand was a better game cause it was a more balanced game. It had great combat, great story, great characters and so on. Ah, but that's where the subjective PoV comes in. I like all four ME games. They are obviously different, and that's how I like it. If I did not want to play something else, I'd still be playing BG1. And, tbh, I went through the phase when I played only BG1 for many years. Now, there are lots of games to chose from, and I don't see the point of harping on not liking one of them if others that are different being available t me. I don't want to be left out of the market, and just as much I don't want other people to not have their cravings left unsatisfied. So, yah, play witcher if you want witcher, play andromeda if you want andromeda, perfect situation as far as I am concerned. The only problem is that there is not enough game to have a new one every year or so that you personally like. Well, maybe in the future there will be more. You, guys, who have consoles ave more choices anyway.
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Post by cobalt72 on Jun 10, 2017 19:03:46 GMT
Eh while I did enjoy ME2 I did find something absurd about it. The idea of loyalty missions during a suicide mission. It's odd that if I don't do your loyalty mission you'd most likely die. But we're on a suicide mission.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jun 10, 2017 19:19:25 GMT
The combat in ME2 was not a selling point, but it was a focal point....there is a difference. Remember, ME1 was never intended to be an all out RPG but rather an ACTION-RPG. With ME1, it was priased on all fronts and one of the few critical areas was it's combat. With ME2, the team decided that to bring up the combat to the same level as their story/characters, they needed to use a combat style that was popular at the time.....which was the cover based combat of Gears of War. Yes, MEA has better combat than ME2, but MEA lacks in many other areas like story and characters. ME2 on the other hand was a better game cause it was a more balanced game. It had great combat, great story, great characters and so on. Ah, but that's where the subjective PoV comes in. I like all four ME games. They are obviously different, and that's how I like it. If I did not want to play something else, I'd still be playing BG1. And, tbh, I went through the phase when I played only BG1 for many years. Now, there are lots of games to chose from, and I don't see the point of harping on not liking one of them if others that are different being available t me. I don't want to be left out of the market, and just as much I don't want other people to not have their cravings left unsatisfied. So, yah, play witcher if you want witcher, play andromeda if you want andromeda, perfect situation as far as I am concerned. The only problem is that there is not enough game to have a new one every year or so that you personally like. Well, maybe in the future there will be more. You, guys, who have consoles ave more choices anyway. Sigh.... This isn't about Andromeda vs Witcher or you vs me. This is about will EA allow Bioware to stay current course or get in and suggest Bioware adapt more onto what is selling today. Like I said before, EA could careless about your feelings or my feelings, they care about $$$$ and if they feel that they can make more $$$$ by forcing Bioware to adapt more features from games like Witcher 3 and Horizon, then Bioware will do so. If EA feels that they will lose $$$$ by seeking another ME title, then MEA will be the last ME game, regardless of your feelings or my feelings. So when I say that Bioware could or should adapt to a more modern approach to videogame story-telling instead of the archaic "I am so special" approach of the past, then it will be done based on $$$$, not what you want or what I want.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 19:26:51 GMT
Ah, but that's where the subjective PoV comes in. I like all four ME games. They are obviously different, and that's how I like it. If I did not want to play something else, I'd still be playing BG1. And, tbh, I went through the phase when I played only BG1 for many years. Now, there are lots of games to chose from, and I don't see the point of harping on not liking one of them if others that are different being available t me. I don't want to be left out of the market, and just as much I don't want other people to not have their cravings left unsatisfied. So, yah, play witcher if you want witcher, play andromeda if you want andromeda, perfect situation as far as I am concerned. The only problem is that there is not enough game to have a new one every year or so that you personally like. Well, maybe in the future there will be more. You, guys, who have consoles ave more choices anyway. Sigh.... This isn't about Andromeda vs Witcher or you vs me. This is about will EA allow Bioware to stay current course or get in and suggest Bioware adapt more onto what is selling today. Like I said before, EA could careless about your feelings or my feelings, they care about $$$$ and if they feel that they can make more $$$$ by forcing Bioware to adapt more features from games like Witcher 3 and Horizon, then Bioware will do so. If EA feels that they will lose $$$$ by seeking another ME title, then MEA will be the last ME game, regardless of your feelings or my feelings. So when I say that Bioware could or should adapt to a more modern approach to videogame story-telling instead of the archaic "I am so special" approach of the past, then it will be done based on $$$$, not what you want or what I want. Well, we'll see. Games comes out, each person chooses to play it or not. In the end it's as simple as that. JE was the first and the last, and not having a sequel... well, what happens, happens. If they do put one out, I'll buy it. Unless they do turn it into Witcher, lol.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 10, 2017 19:28:05 GMT
I have to say very well thought out review. Now I agree that everything is subjective as I too loved MoS and Batman v Superman (btw you've got to see WW it is amazing.) Anyway I wouldn't call the worlds lifeless. There is a reason they mostly stay at the camps. I hear what you are saying about being special but that is pretty much the case in most games except the Witcher as Geralt just don't give a fuck and of course GTA. As far as the Kett well I don't agree I think it was proper to introduce them when they did. As far for it not feeling alien enough I see your point but I disagree. Also imagine the internet if none or very few MW races were represented. Not a pretty picture.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Jun 10, 2017 19:28:12 GMT
Ah, but that's where the subjective PoV comes in. I like all four ME games. They are obviously different, and that's how I like it. If I did not want to play something else, I'd still be playing BG1. And, tbh, I went through the phase when I played only BG1 for many years. Now, there are lots of games to chose from, and I don't see the point of harping on not liking one of them if others that are different being available t me. I don't want to be left out of the market, and just as much I don't want other people to not have their cravings left unsatisfied. So, yah, play witcher if you want witcher, play andromeda if you want andromeda, perfect situation as far as I am concerned. The only problem is that there is not enough game to have a new one every year or so that you personally like. Well, maybe in the future there will be more. You, guys, who have consoles ave more choices anyway. Sigh.... This isn't about Andromeda vs Witcher or you vs me. This is about will EA allow Bioware to stay current course or get in and suggest Bioware adapt more onto what is selling today. Like I said before, EA could careless about your feelings or my feelings, they care about $$$$ and if they feel that they can make more $$$$ by forcing Bioware to adapt more features from games like Witcher 3 and Horizon, then Bioware will do so. If EA feels that they will lose $$$$ by seeking another ME title, then MEA will be the last ME game, regardless of your feelings or my feelings. So when I say that Bioware could or should adapt to a more modern approach to videogame story-telling instead of the archaic "I am so special" approach of the past, then it will be done based on $$$$, not what you want or what I want. Biowares already partaking in borrowing features/ideas off others. They've specifically said skyrim influenced them to try open world since DA:I, gears has already influenced the combat long ago, and they've said they'd take some influence from TW3. It's an industry where it amounts to who can do it better cause copying will happen regardless what people want.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jun 10, 2017 19:32:55 GMT
Sigh.... This isn't about Andromeda vs Witcher or you vs me. This is about will EA allow Bioware to stay current course or get in and suggest Bioware adapt more onto what is selling today. Like I said before, EA could careless about your feelings or my feelings, they care about $$$$ and if they feel that they can make more $$$$ by forcing Bioware to adapt more features from games like Witcher 3 and Horizon, then Bioware will do so. If EA feels that they will lose $$$$ by seeking another ME title, then MEA will be the last ME game, regardless of your feelings or my feelings. So when I say that Bioware could or should adapt to a more modern approach to videogame story-telling instead of the archaic "I am so special" approach of the past, then it will be done based on $$$$, not what you want or what I want. Biowares already partaking in borrowing features/ideas off others. They've specifically said skyrim influenced them to try open world since DA:I, gears has already influenced the combat long ago, and they've said they'd take some influence from TW3. It's an industry where it amounts to who can do it better cause copying will happen regardless what people want. If MEA features any influence from TW3 I sure as hell didn't notice it. If the developers took some influence from TW3 then the side missions would have been more aspiring and the would would not have been so lifeless.
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Post by abaris on Jun 10, 2017 19:35:51 GMT
Biowares already partaking in borrowing features/ideas off others. They've specifically said skyrim influenced them to try open world since DA:I, gears has already influenced the combat long ago, and they've said they'd take some influence from TW3. It's an industry where it amounts to who can do it better cause copying will happen regardless what people want. There's a reason why open world works with Bethesda games and not with Bioware games. It's Bethesda's strength. Including Day/Night cycles as well as weather effects and worlds tha seem to come alive with NPCs moving all over the maps. They have 15 years of experience doing that, and while there are other weaknesses to their games, it's their strong suit, not Bioware's as is glaringly obvious with their static approach. You can't take something from another game in hopes it would work for you also if you aren't even able to provide for the basics. Bioware's strong suit has always been the character writing and the story element. With everything else they're just amateurs or mainstream at best.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Jun 10, 2017 19:36:46 GMT
Biowares already partaking in borrowing features/ideas off others. They've specifically said skyrim influenced them to try open world since DA:I, gears has already influenced the combat long ago, and they've said they'd take some influence from TW3. It's an industry where it amounts to who can do it better cause copying will happen regardless what people want. If MEA features any influence from TW3 I sure as hell didn't notice it. If the developers took some influence from TW3 then the side missions would have been more aspiring and the would would not have been so lifeless. Well borrowing from one game doesn't mean it'll be as good, supposedly they were wanting to draw influence from TW3 side missions but I don't see it either. I can see influences from other things like the scanner but there's nothing really big that's noticeable. open works itself always has the risk of a lifeless world, its inquisitions issue as well and honestly I'd say the same for TW3 unless you're in the cities. There really isn't a lot of good open worlds that have life in them.
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Post by clips7 on Jun 10, 2017 20:02:19 GMT
The problem with the Kett wasn't that they were introduced to early, it was that they weren't built into anything that you would fear. In ME:1 you had fodder enemies and then you rolled out Sovereign, which was when everything really got real, and then after Sovereign attacked the Citadel, it was a man, if one reaper can do this what would hundreds or thousands do. In ME:2, right out of the gate Collectors destroyed your ship and killed you. Then took over entire colonies with advanced tech that you had to prepare for. You had mercs for the most part as fodder enemies, and the collectors even when you fought them, you never went into a collector base and just overrun it. You snuck on their ship and escaped. They were built up as something bigger than you. ME:3 Reapers require no explanation. Now ME:A. First scene you walk into a Kett controlled facility and take it over. On Kadara, exiles with limited supplies, running from the Initiative eradicate the Kett presence on the planet and put their heads up as trophies. This is the race that has this vast galaxy-wide Empire. Really? Nothing about the Kett screamed fear us. So at the end, when the new Kett Commander or whoever that was turns and walks from the window, who cares, I didn't feel threatened. Now in the first scene had you found the facility with the remnant tech first and then the Kett came to claim it, showing up with some advanced tech forcing you to flee. Then you have an entirely different view of the Kett. They could have even made this how Alec was killed, sacrificing himself to make sure you got out OK. I didn't read the other pages in this thread, but when I read this...I absolutely agreed! The Kett did not feel like they was a huge threat in Andromeda. They felt like any other generic cannon-fodder in whatever game you want to mention. Like you mentioned, the threat felt real and organic with the Reapers and the Collectors. The way the Collectors ravaged human colonies had you on edge every time you fought them and their encounters with them in ME2 made it seem like they was so much more your superiors. The threat just felt more organic and urgent. Andromeda also suffers from familiarity. What the Kett was doing to the Angarians, felt pretty much like what the Reapers was doing to other races, except the Kett did not give off a presence of superiority or a sense of fear, instead in a lot of scenarios you was easily steam-rolling them off the map. That intro with the Collectors in ME2 had you thinking wtf?... .....they felt superior on every level. The Reaper threat in ME3?....you felt helpless in the opening stages of ME3 and the screenplay and the sense of dread and hopelessness was felt...the sound of the Reaper lasers pulverizing the earth's defenses and major cities around the world? Yes people was upset about the ending's, but ME3 from beginning to end was thrilling...nobody had issues with characters or storylines or petty love interests on the level that we are seeing with Andromeda....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 20:44:21 GMT
Very well laid out post OP, and accurate on all points. I would imagine all veteran Bioware fans who have been there from when Bioware took it's first shaky steps would agree. Are we allowed to call ourself veteran now? Ok then. As a Bioware veteran, sounds like i work for Bioware - Mass Effect Andromeda is only ok. Which is something i never thought i would say about a Bioware game.
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