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Post by Melcara on Jun 14, 2017 20:13:22 GMT
Seems to me like you had a really bad experience with DAI. I admit, I played the game on a PC at launch, and haven't encountered any of these issues, so I wouldn't know these things. I also don't remember an outrage happening because of that. Of course, no game is perfect at launch, and bugs are a given. I recognize that, and I wasn't claiming that DAI didn't have bugs upon release, even though I haven't encountered any of them. My original point was that DAI wasn't released in a half finished state like MEA. That's what I was talking about. It's a finished game with bugs vs. an unfinished game with bugs. That's why I consider them incomparable. As for the eyes - yeah, you're right, "just" asari and human eyes. The problem, though, is that you spend the majority of this game talking to humans, and those eyes were painfully noticeable, at least to me. The other aliens look fine, which is actually quite perplexing. The fact that they spent more time on the alien models than human ones is really puzzling. MEA wasn't released in a half-finished state. It's hyperbole like that that keeps some folks from taking you seriously. Yah, okay. It is hyperbole, you're right. And a justified one. Sorry, but having to dramatically rework cutscenes and change textures seems pretty unfinished to me. ...Not to mention having to improve CC and adding romance options 3 months after launch. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 20:13:56 GMT
No worse than anyone else. And the fact that there wasn't an 'outrage' is kind of the point Elfen was making. I mean, people complained, they were angry, the same crap about how Bioware is dead etc came up. But that was it - patches came out, stuff got fixed, and it eventually ended up in the state it is today. No massive bandwagon started with people making memes and reviewers going off on tangents as what has happened here, despite MEA's state on release being not particularly different. I'm not really sure what your own definition of 'finished with bugs' is vs 'unfinished with bugs', as the only things you've mentioned so far are simply bugs, and not even breaking ones at that. Hence I can't really say whether you're being unreasonable or not by saying their incomparable. Merely that one can only realistically nail MEA to the wall if they were equally put out at DAI's release (and Skyrim, for that matter, which was in an even worse state then either at release). But it was different. The majority of the intro sequences in MEA were reworked in future patches. Just take a look at unpatched cutscenes and the patched ones - the animations are much better and much more fluid, the hair textures/skin textures were touched upon, eye shaders were added, camera angles were changed etc. To me, that screams that they didn't have enough time to finish these very basic things and had to finish them in post-launch. As far as I remember, DAI didn't have any patches that fixed cutscenes or textures, because they didn't need fixing. But they did finish them, so what's the big deal? It's like crying over spilled milk. |
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Post by colfoley on Jun 14, 2017 20:15:17 GMT
MEA wasn't released in a half-finished state. It's hyperbole like that that keeps some folks from taking you seriously. Yah, okay. It is hyperbole, you're right. And a justified one. Sorry, but having to dramatically rework cutscenes and change textures seems pretty unfinished to me. ...Not to mention having to improve CC and adding romance options 3 months after launch. CDPR also changed their romances months after launch. |
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 14, 2017 20:17:10 GMT
MEA wasn't released in a half-finished state. It's hyperbole like that that keeps some folks from taking you seriously. Yah, okay. It is hyperbole, you're right. And a justified one. Sorry, but having to dramatically rework cutscenes and change textures seems pretty unfinished to me. ...Not to mention having to improve CC and adding romance options 3 months after launch. LoL, you just can't seem to help yourself. The internet seems to draw the drama queens. They didn't "have" to do anything, by the way. Neither the CC or romance options were bugs or plot holes. |
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Post by Melcara on Jun 14, 2017 20:17:35 GMT
But it was different. The majority of the intro sequences in MEA were reworked in future patches. Just take a look at unpatched cutscenes and the patched ones - the animations are much better and much more fluid, the hair textures/skin textures were touched upon, eye shaders were added, camera angles were changed etc. To me, that screams that they didn't have enough time to finish these very basic things and had to finish them in post-launch. As far as I remember, DAI didn't have any patches that fixed cutscenes or textures, because they didn't need fixing. But they did finish them, so what's the big deal? It's like crying over spilled milk. The problem is that they launched a game in that state and charged full price for it. It's nice they patched it later, sure, but most people who bought this game were already finished with it by then. I don't really want to argue over this. If you're okay with that, then I can't change your mind. |
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Post by LogicGunn on Jun 14, 2017 20:18:04 GMT
I think it's complicated. MAI is the next in a very popular series whose last game's ending had a literal internet movement in protest. It was always going to be judged harshly. It's fundamentally a good game premise with strong ideas, but it was released in a rushed, barely beta-test-worthy state. The original ideas got watered down along the way and while all games have some culling, the distances between what could/should have been and what is are vast. I love the game, more so post-patching, and I long for DLC. Fingers crossed.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 20:19:48 GMT
But they did finish them, so what's the big deal? It's like crying over spilled milk. The problem is that they launched a game in that state and charged full price for it. It's nice they patched it later, sure, but most people who bought this game were already finished with it by then. I don't really want to argue over this. If you're okay with that, then I can't change your mind. That's EA not BW. They were not able to get the extra 5 months they needed because EA wanted them game out in March. In 4 months they patched all the stuff they couldn't work on unless given those extra 5 months and now it's done. |
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 14, 2017 20:22:14 GMT
MEA wasn't released in a half-finished state. It's hyperbole like that that keeps some folks from taking you seriously. more like two-thirds  Considering I ran through the game twice before 1.05 came out, without any substantial bugs, and I had a lot of fun, I'd say no to the two-thirds as well. I'd say in my experience it was pretty much finished. The animations, while a few were wonky, were not bugs. Bioware didn't have to do anything to them if they didn't want to. As many have pointed out, the damage had already been done at that point. |
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 14, 2017 20:24:53 GMT
But it was different. The majority of the intro sequences in MEA were reworked in future patches. Just take a look at unpatched cutscenes and the patched ones - the animations are much better and much more fluid, the hair textures/skin textures were touched upon, eye shaders were added, camera angles were changed etc. To me, that screams that they didn't have enough time to finish these very basic things and had to finish them in post-launch. As far as I remember, DAI didn't have any patches that fixed cutscenes or textures, because they didn't need fixing. So is your logic that only changes to cutscenes or textures count in this comparison? And that changes to things like control schemes (such as mouse support, DAI's tactical mode etc) do not? Because frankly, of the two, I'd argue the latter would be more of an indication that a game was unfinished as that's core game design. None of MEA's issues actually required me to change what I was doing, while DAI's issues had me creating workarounds on my mouse mappings and ignoring tactical mode altogether until it was fixed. Having said all this, it doesn't actually matter. The distinction you're making between the two is arbitrary as there's no real way to quantify the effect of a bug if it doesn't actually crash the game. There's nothing wrong with being annoyed about a game releasing in rough state, but the stance ceases to be objective if you start handwaving away issues in one title but not the other. |
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 14, 2017 20:34:25 GMT
Yah, okay. It is hyperbole, you're right. And a justified one. Sorry, but having to dramatically rework cutscenes and change textures seems pretty unfinished to me. ...Not to mention having to improve CC and adding romance options 3 months after launch. CDPR also changed their romances months after launch. Can someone post a non-spoilery summary of what they changed and why they changed it? |
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 14, 2017 20:38:51 GMT
The problem is that they launched a game in that state and charged full price for it. It's nice they patched it later, sure, but most people who bought this game were already finished with it by then. I don't really want to argue over this. If you're okay with that, then I can't change your mind. That's EA not BW. They were not able to get the extra 5 months they needed because EA wanted them game out in March. In 4 months they patched all the stuff they couldn't work on unless given those extra 5 months and now it's done. I don't think we ought to let Bio off the hook here. Even if you think that EA should have taken the financial hit and let ME:A slip to the next FY, it's still Bio's mess for blowing their deadlines in the first place. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 20:39:56 GMT
That's EA not BW. They were not able to get the extra 5 months they needed because EA wanted them game out in March. In 4 months they patched all the stuff they couldn't work on unless given those extra 5 months and now it's done. I don't think we ought to let Bio off the hook here. Even if you think that EA should have taken the financial hit and let ME:A slip to the next FY, it's still Bio's mess for blowing their deadlines in the first place. They still brought out a complete game and patched it what they couldn't polish, so I am content with that. |
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 14, 2017 20:43:08 GMT
I don't think we ought to let Bio off the hook here. Even if you think that EA should have taken the financial hit and let ME:A slip to the next FY, it's still Bio's mess for blowing their deadlines in the first place. That. If Jason Schreier's article is to be believed (and I'm reasonably sure it's at least broadly true, his weird schoolyard response notwithstanding) then Bioware are at least half-responsible. |
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Post by colfoley on Jun 14, 2017 20:45:26 GMT
CDPR also changed their romances months after launch. Can someone post a non-spoilery summary of what they changed and why they changed it? they added a few romance scenes for triss because people were mad it didn't compare to Yens. |
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 14, 2017 20:50:13 GMT
Can someone post a non-spoilery summary of what they changed and why they changed it? they added a few romance scenes for triss because people were mad it didn't compare to Yens. Who'd pick triss over Yennefer? The humility....  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 20:51:45 GMT
I don't think we ought to let Bio off the hook here. Even if you think that EA should have taken the financial hit and let ME:A slip to the next FY, it's still Bio's mess for blowing their deadlines in the first place. That. If Jason Schreier's article is to be believed (and I'm reasonably sure it's at least broadly true, his weird schoolyard response notwithstanding) then Bioware are at least half-responsible. Oh yeah but they have made an effort to fix it, so I let it slide a bit. EA's marketing though I will never forgive. |
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 14, 2017 21:03:04 GMT
What settings are you playing on, if you don't mind sharing? I am curious, because I've never thought of dropping my settings, but maybe it's the thing to do with DA, and it will look better to me & not so irritating. Maybe I am just grasping at the straws, I dunno. I have everything on ultra. The textures still look wacky to me. I have ultra on everything and I can tell they are not. Mea does not have one flat texture. |
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 14, 2017 21:06:31 GMT
But it was different. The majority of the intro sequences in MEA were reworked in future patches. Just take a look at unpatched cutscenes and the patched ones - the animations are much better and much more fluid, the hair textures/skin textures were touched upon, eye shaders were added, camera angles were changed etc. To me, that screams that they didn't have enough time to finish these very basic things and had to finish them in post-launch. As far as I remember, DAI didn't have any patches that fixed cutscenes or textures, because they didn't need fixing. But they did finish them, so what's the big deal? It's like crying over spilled milk. I'm sorry but I atlas expect games to come out with proper animation. That is the minimum requirement. And bug should be game play bug that are overlooked not stuff if give more time can be fixed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 21:09:01 GMT
But they did finish them, so what's the big deal? It's like crying over spilled milk. I'm sorry but I atlas expect games to come out with proper animation. That is the minimum requirement. And bug should be game play bug that are overlooked not stuff if give more time can be fixed. And they couldn't finish it without the 5 month extension, but did so in 4 months with patches. All for free. *shrugs* I find the "but but but it wasn't done yet!!!  :sob: " reasoning petty and an excuse to complain. |
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 14, 2017 21:09:35 GMT
But it was different. The majority of the intro sequences in MEA were reworked in future patches. Just take a look at unpatched cutscenes and the patched ones - the animations are much better and much more fluid, the hair textures/skin textures were touched upon, eye shaders were added, camera angles were changed etc. To me, that screams that they didn't have enough time to finish these very basic things and had to finish them in post-launch. As far as I remember, DAI didn't have any patches that fixed cutscenes or textures, because they didn't need fixing. So is your logic that only changes to cutscenes or textures count in this comparison? And that changes to things like control schemes (such as mouse support, DAI's tactical mode etc) do not? Because frankly, of the two, I'd argue the latter would be more of an indication that a game was unfinished as that's core game design. None of MEA's issues actually required me to change what I was doing, while DAI's issues had me creating workarounds on my mouse mappings and ignoring tactical mode altogether until it was fixed. Having said all this, it doesn't actually matter. The distinction you're making between the two is arbitrary as there's no real way to quantify the effect of a bug if it doesn't actually crash the game. There's nothing wrong with being annoyed about a game releasing in rough state, but the stance ceases to be objective if you start handwaving away issues in one title but not the other. The kb and mouse fix was adding an auto attack and fixing the camera and you can work around it if you did not have it.mea change was about the experience that you can't work around and ignore. |
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 14, 2017 21:12:09 GMT
I'm sorry but I atlas expect games to come out with proper animation. That is the minimum requirement. And bug should be game play bug that are overlooked not stuff if give more time can be fixed. And they couldn't finish it without the 5 month extension, but did so in 4 months with patches. All for free. *shrugs* I find the "but but but it wasn't done yet!!! :sob: " reasoning petty and an excuse to complain. the cut.the animation department. The worked of a bad foundation and had horrible management. Yet after all that they still managed to fix all of it with in month of release? Please, do not tell me they did not have the time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 21:14:44 GMT
And they couldn't finish it without the 5 month extension, but did so in 4 months with patches. All for free. *shrugs* I find the "but but but it wasn't done yet!!! :sob: " reasoning petty and an excuse to complain. the cut.the animation department. The worked of a bad foundation and had horrible management. Yet after all that they still managed to fix all of it with in month of release? Please, do not tell me they did not have the time. It's fixed. So what's the big deal? That's where I don't get this logic. I have bought old games that went through nightmare patching and played a version many earlier players never saw. MEA is no different. Anyone who buys it now will see it as it was mean to be, so the past is the past. I would only complain too if they left it alone and just expected everyone to accept an un-polished game. Also when I beta tested SWTOR many of us said not to bring it out as it was because it was not a pretty sight, but they did, so nothing that's released is the end results. |
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jaegerbane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 14, 2017 21:19:00 GMT
The kb and mouse fix was adding an auto attack and fixing the camera and you can work around it if you did not have it.mea change was about the experience that you can't work around and ignore. For me it was setting up a rebind in my mouse software so that 'L' and 'K' were bound to MB 4 and 5 (i.e., keyboard keys that I never use in a game as they're too far from WSAD). The thing is, this was a AAA 2014 game. I shouldn't have to be messing around with ghetto engineering like this just to get my mouse to work. As for being 'unable to work around and ignore'... let's be honest, an issue with a cutscene is easy to work around and ignore. You literally do not have to do anything and the problem will pass. If issues like this stopped you playing the game then you'd have never gotten through the trilogy.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 21:22:32 GMT
Actually I think Skyrim was one of the biggest fails for a first launch game when many watched the horse and cart go loco in the opening scene.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 21:28:38 GMT
Can someone post a non-spoilery summary of what they changed and why they changed it? they added a few romance scenes for triss because people were mad it didn't compare to Yens. Wait people wanted more with Triss, who you could romance through 3 games and you only met Yen in one and they said it wasn't fair?  |
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:sob: " reasoning petty and an excuse to complain.
