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Post by themikefest on Jun 23, 2017 20:05:42 GMT
What I wasn't isn't the issue though. They simply won't because it is their "art" That they set MEA in Andromeda rather than setting a canon pretty well demonstrates that. They are NOT going back to the Milky Way anytime soon. Not unless there's some serious turnover among the Powers that Be. They can go back to the Milky Way, if they choose. It wouldn't be hard. EA could bring in another team to make a game that takes place in the Milky Way while the current team working on Andromeda, continues in Andromeda.
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Post by abaris on Jun 23, 2017 20:29:47 GMT
Is the setting really that important?
What's important is fleshing out whatever setting they choose. One of the problems of Andromeda is that you have exactly two new races. The Angarans and the Kett and the mysterious race that created the vaults. Obviously moonlighting as Protheans. Everything else are the old races brought from the Milky way.
So that's what I would want them to do. It's not important where the story takes place but how the story takes place.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 23, 2017 20:51:39 GMT
What I wasn't isn't the issue though. They simply won't because it is their "art" That they set MEA in Andromeda rather than setting a canon pretty well demonstrates that. They are NOT going back to the Milky Way anytime soon. Not unless there's some serious turnover among the Powers that Be. They can go back to the Milky Way, if they choose. It wouldn't be hard. EA could bring in another team to make a game that takes place in the Milky Way while the current team working on Andromeda, continues in Andromeda. That's just it. They won't choose to. Not for a long time.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 23, 2017 21:05:34 GMT
Had Mass Effect 3 taken the Dragon Age Origins approach to its endgame and faction fates, it wouldn't be that way. Dragon Age is doing the exact same thing on a smaller scale, limiting the events to a single nation, rather than an entire galaxy. Sooner or later, we will run out of places in Thedas to visit. How is it exactly the same? In Origins, the darkspawn are always defeated the same way, and the rest are essentially NPC or name swaps in dialogue. Nothing that happened so far comes close to the galaxy-spanning changes made in the end. Heck, the only factions you've been able to wipe out so far were small, isolated and perfectly interchangeable with other factions elsewhere, like the Dalish. You can destroy a dozen of those and another will pop up eventually. Heck, destroying Dalish clans is a DA tradition.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 23, 2017 21:16:22 GMT
Dragon Age is doing the exact same thing on a smaller scale, limiting the events to a single nation, rather than an entire galaxy. Sooner or later, we will run out of places in Thedas to visit. How is it exactly the same? In Origins, the darkspawn are always defeated the same way, and the rest are essentially NPC or name swaps in dialogue. Nothing that happened so far comes close to the galaxy-spanning changes made in the end. Heck, the only factions you've been able to wipe out so far were small, isolated and perfectly interchangeable with other factions elsewhere, like the Dalish. You can destroy a dozen of those and another will pop up eventually. Heck, destroying Dalish clans is a DA tradition. Ferelden may be ruled by Alistair, Anora, Alistair and Anora, or the Warden and Anora. And Alistair may or may not be hardened by events. The assorted boons that could be offered may alter Ferelden. Amarathine may or may not have been burned to the ground. And if the Warden Commander was an elf, that may raise tensions. The Circle tower may or may not have been anulled. Branka may or may not be kidnapping humans and elves to make into golems Etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 21:20:53 GMT
if there was one thing I have never felt while playing Inquisition, it's that sudden sharp pang of fear that I am running out of places to visit on Thedas....
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Post by projectpatdc on Jun 23, 2017 21:23:15 GMT
Does it really matter?
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 23, 2017 21:44:18 GMT
What I wasn't isn't the issue though. They simply won't because it is their "art" That they set MEA in Andromeda rather than setting a canon pretty well demonstrates that. They are NOT going back to the Milky Way anytime soon. Not unless there's some serious turnover among the Powers that Be. They can go back to the Milky Way, if they choose. It wouldn't be hard. EA could bring in another team to make a game that takes place in the Milky Way while the current team working on Andromeda, continues in Andromeda. With how the vocal group of people have responded to Mass Effect: Andromeda I just don't see EA or BioWare going back anytime in the near future. I can see all the negativity towards it already and would make the launch of Andromeda seem tame. There are too many expectations and polar opposite views of what hurt those games that I think it has a much higher chance of doing harm to the franchise because they would be unable to match the goals that the vocal community has expectations of.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 23, 2017 22:12:43 GMT
Didn't that ship sail after Rannoch? (Not Tuchanka, because the cure/no cure status is easy enough to subsequently change.) This is why I said that going back to the Milky Way would require a complete do over of ME3, if not the entire Shepard trilogy. Again, unless they want to establish a canon Oh, I agree. I was just quibbling about when the problem became insoluble. A canon trilogy would work fine for me. But as you said, our personal tastes aren't relevant to the question.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 23, 2017 22:18:06 GMT
How is it exactly the same? In Origins, the darkspawn are always defeated the same way, and the rest are essentially NPC or name swaps in dialogue. Nothing that happened so far comes close to the galaxy-spanning changes made in the end. Heck, the only factions you've been able to wipe out so far were small, isolated and perfectly interchangeable with other factions elsewhere, like the Dalish. You can destroy a dozen of those and another will pop up eventually. Heck, destroying Dalish clans is a DA tradition. Ferelden may be ruled by Alistair, Anora, Alistair and Anora, or the Warden and Anora. And Alistair may or may not be hardened by events. The assorted boons that could be offered may alter Ferelden. Amarathine may or may not have been burned to the ground. And if the Warden Commander was an elf, that may raise tensions. The Circle tower may or may not have been anulled. Branka may or may not be kidnapping humans and elves to make into golems Etc. The advantage DA has is that all of these are limited in scope. A new Circle would have to be founded in Ferelden if the original one was annulled, for instance.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 23, 2017 22:26:45 GMT
Ferelden may be ruled by Alistair, Anora, Alistair and Anora, or the Warden and Anora. And Alistair may or may not be hardened by events. The assorted boons that could be offered may alter Ferelden. Amarathine may or may not have been burned to the ground. And if the Warden Commander was an elf, that may raise tensions. The Circle tower may or may not have been anulled. Branka may or may not be kidnapping humans and elves to make into golems Etc. The advantage DA has is that all of these are limited in scope. A new Circle would have to be founded in Ferelden if the original one was annulled, for instance. This is true, Dragon Age, in general, is not so sweeping in its "big choices". And again, we move around form nation to nation, so who rules Ferelden or Orlais will matter little when we are in Tevinter, nor will the identity of "Divine Victoria" likely matter in a land where the Black Chantry holds sway. They have also avoided giving the player choices that could mean the extinction of entire races, the depopulation of nations, or the destruction of systems vital for civilization. However, that really only slows the process. Not stop it. We will eventually run out of places to visit where "Big Choices" won't impinge on the story. Which is why I've come to believe that such choices should only be important and have consequences in the game where said choices are made.
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Post by armass81 on Jun 23, 2017 22:38:41 GMT
Is the setting really that important? What's important is fleshing out whatever setting they choose. One of the problems of Andromeda is that you have exactly two new races. The Angarans and the Kett and the mysterious race that created the vaults. Obviously moonlighting as Protheans. Everything else are the old races brought from the Milky way. So that's what I would want them to do. It's not important where the story takes place but how the story takes place.Exactly.
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 23, 2017 23:50:30 GMT
The advantage DA has is that all of these are limited in scope. A new Circle would have to be founded in Ferelden if the original one was annulled, for instance. This is true, Dragon Age, in general, is not so sweeping in its "big choices". And again, we move around form nation to nation, so who rules Ferelden or Orlais will matter little when we are in Tevinter, nor will the identity of "Divine Victoria" likely matter in a land where the Black Chantry holds sway. They have also avoided giving the player choices that could mean the extinction of entire races, the depopulation of nations, or the destruction of systems vital for civilization. However, that really only slows the process. Not stop it. We will eventually run out of places to visit where "Big Choices" won't impinge on the story. Which is why I've come to believe that such choices should only be important and have consequences in the game where said choices are made. A lot of games do that as well and I am more then willing to accept choices that impact the game we are playing, but really have no impact beyond that game. The Telltale games come to mind with that for you pick to save someone and they last a couple of chapters and then die themselves. I think it is a smarter way as well for the Mass Effect Trilogy was a good example of not having closure for choices can also lead to greater expectations of the final closure of those choices. The best example I can think of at the moment is the Rachni in Mass Effect 1, if you free the queen instead of just having her take off she comes to the aid during the final battle of Mass Effect 1 at The Citadel and is wounded/killed and that is the end of that choice instead of some players expecting a bigger and bigger consequence of that choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 16:13:00 GMT
That would be true if Shepard's "final line" had not fundamentally altered the entire galaxy. As such, no further story can be told there without that story intruding on the new one. As such, the next game to either 1) canonize an end-state to the trilogy, or otherwise somehow render Shepard's actions irrelevant ("it was all a dream", etc) or 2) relocate someplace where Shepard's choice does not impinge on what's happening, thus rendering that story irrelevant for MEA's purposes. Thus we either stay in Andromeda, where Shepard's actions are irrelevant to what's happening there, or return to the Milky Way, and have Shepard's actions rendered irrelevant, because we CAN'T tell a story there otherwise. Shepard's story is done. It was only meant to be part of the trilogy. They weren't going to tie future titles into that. What happens in the trilogy stays in the trilogy. If you destroyed the Reapers at the end of the game, they stay that way. Future titles don't bring them back to life, thus making your actions "meaningless". There's more to the Mass Effect IP than just Shepard.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 27, 2017 16:24:13 GMT
That would be true if Shepard's "final line" had not fundamentally altered the entire galaxy. As such, no further story can be told there without that story intruding on the new one. As such, the next game to either 1) canonize an end-state to the trilogy, or otherwise somehow render Shepard's actions irrelevant ("it was all a dream", etc) or 2) relocate someplace where Shepard's choice does not impinge on what's happening, thus rendering that story irrelevant for MEA's purposes. Thus we either stay in Andromeda, where Shepard's actions are irrelevant to what's happening there, or return to the Milky Way, and have Shepard's actions rendered irrelevant, because we CAN'T tell a story there otherwise. Shepard's story is done. It was only meant to be part of the trilogy. They weren't going to tie future titles into that. What happens in the trilogy stays in the trilogy. There's more to the Mass Effect IP than just Shepard. Yes. There's also the krogan, which might or might not have been wiped out. The quarians, which might or might not have been wiped out The geth, which might or might not have been wiped out The Reapers, which might or might not have been wiped out The relay network, which might or might not have been destroyed Earth, which might or might not have been destroyed For that matter, just about any inhabitable world with a relay in the system may have been scoured of all life Or everyone is happy, immortal, and green Or wiped out by the Reapers Or serving the Reapers. Shepard's story fundamentally changed the Milky Way galaxy. This was an idiotic way to end a trilogy if they had any idea they'd be continuing the franchise (well, let's face it, it was an idiotic way to end the trilogy anyway, but that's another discussion) It burned the setting to the ground to the point where serious retcons would be needed to revisit it. Which is a shame because the Milky Way was barely touched in the trilogy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 16:34:18 GMT
(Shrug) I loved it how epic the changes to the verse were in the end of ME3. I miss this sort of cataclysmic events in DAT. And I like it that it is the END not the End? I don't like TBC and open endings.
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Post by DoctorFox on Jun 27, 2017 16:35:55 GMT
I don't think going back to the Milky Way in the traditional meaning is the right way forward. What i think Bioware could do is say that within the 600 years it took for the Initiative to reach Andromeda, the people in the Milky Way could have advanced their technology quite considerably. They would have had to re-build relays that got smashed in the Milky Way. That could lead on to them learning more about relay technology and how to create new ones with longer range travel distance. Travel distance that would allow people to travel back and forth from the Milky Way to Andromeda within a matter of minutes lets say.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 16:47:13 GMT
Yes. There's also the krogan, which might or might not have been wiped out. The quarians, which might or might not have been wiped out The geth, which might or might not have been wiped out The Reapers, which might or might not have been wiped out The relay network, which might or might not have been destroyed Earth, which might or might not have been destroyed For that matter, just about any inhabitable world with a relay in the system may have been scoured of all life Or everyone is happy, immortal, and green Or wiped out by the Reapers Or serving the Reapers. Shepard's story fundamentally changed the Milky Way galaxy. This was an idiotic way to end a trilogy if they had any idea they'd be continuing the franchise (well, let's face it, it was an idiotic way to end the trilogy anyway, but that's another discussion) It burned the setting to the ground to the point where serious retcons would be needed to revisit it. Which is a shame because the Milky Way was barely touched in the trilogy. There was going to be a hefty price to defeat the Reapers. The original docs pointed at a galactic dark age being required. Would be kind of cheesy if you destroyed the Reapers and everything just continued on like nothing happened.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 27, 2017 16:53:18 GMT
Yes. There's also the krogan, which might or might not have been wiped out. The quarians, which might or might not have been wiped out The geth, which might or might not have been wiped out The Reapers, which might or might not have been wiped out The relay network, which might or might not have been destroyed Earth, which might or might not have been destroyed For that matter, just about any inhabitable world with a relay in the system may have been scoured of all life Or everyone is happy, immortal, and green Or wiped out by the Reapers Or serving the Reapers. Shepard's story fundamentally changed the Milky Way galaxy. This was an idiotic way to end a trilogy if they had any idea they'd be continuing the franchise (well, let's face it, it was an idiotic way to end the trilogy anyway, but that's another discussion) It burned the setting to the ground to the point where serious retcons would be needed to revisit it. Which is a shame because the Milky Way was barely touched in the trilogy. There was going to be a hefty price to defeat the Reapers. The original docs pointed at a galactic dark age being required. Would be kind of cheesy if you destroyed the Reapers and everything just continued on like nothing happened. WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING I just said? I listed numerous MAJOR POINTS OF DIVERSION that could exist in people's games. Whole species could be dead, planets could be destroyed, the galaxy in various states of ruin, all of which would have to be accounted for IN EACH INDIVIDUAL WORLD-STATE. Please reread and give an answer that's actually pertinent to what I said.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 27, 2017 16:57:06 GMT
There's also the krogan, which might or might not have been wiped out. So sabotaging the cure wipes them out? How long did it take for that to happen?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 17:13:01 GMT
WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING I just said? I listed numerous MAJOR POINTS OF DIVERSION that could exist in people's games. Whole species could be dead, planets could be destroyed, the galaxy in various states of ruin, all of which would have to be accounted for IN EACH INDIVIDUAL WORLD-STATE. Please reread and give an answer that's actually pertinent to what I said. I did read it. Like I said earlier, it was a trilogy, and you seem to think that the next game would have to account for all that. It wasn't going to, because such a game would never be made. Read the Final Hours book. Any future titles would come before (like MEA) or during ME3, but not after.
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Post by kenshen19 on Jun 27, 2017 17:16:58 GMT
Isn't it stated very early in the game that going back is not an option as this was a one way trip? From a writing POV staying in Andromeda opens up all kinds of different story angles they could go for, pretty much the sky is the limit. Also going back to the MW would be such a headache because then one of the choices at the end of ME3 would have to be official cannon and that has ragestrom 3.0 all over it. Finally BW started a story and I would rather them finish it than just moving on to a completely different one, I just don't see that being a popular move with most fans.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 27, 2017 17:23:52 GMT
There's also the krogan, which might or might not have been wiped out. So sabotaging the cure wipes them out? How long did it take for that to happen? With the genophage, they'd just go through the long grind from functional extinction to full-on vanishing off the face of the galaxy. The problem is how to depict their faction in total when its behavior should be considerably different depending on what you chose. Would it just end up being a cheap swap of NPC dialogue in passing, like "Quads, I hate the genophage" and "With the genophage cured, I can finally start my dating service app"?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 17:39:58 GMT
I just want a well designed game in the ME Universe that appeals to me. I don't really care what galaxy it's in.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 27, 2017 18:17:44 GMT
There's also the krogan, which might or might not have been wiped out. So sabotaging the cure wipes them out? How long did it take for that to happen? You can also get virtually all their remaining fertile females blown up by letting the bomb go off
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