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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 27, 2017 14:47:35 GMT
I've seen the term "SJW" misused so many times that any time someone does so unironically, it basically destroys that person's credibility for me. That is because some people's definition of "sjw" is as broad as the pacific ocean. I will probably get called one just for starting this thread and saying I don't see an "sjw conspiracy" in the game. To me an "sjw" is someone that takes it too far like Anita Sarkeesian. To them an "sjw" is anyone that doesn't get triggered over a little variety in the game. Lol. Those durn feminazis, having opinions and shit.
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Post by sil on Jun 27, 2017 14:52:26 GMT
The only SJW issue I saw was having asari claiming to use different gender pronouns, despite using female-centric ones for almost everything in the original trilogy.
Though I do feel they handled some things poorly. Such as the transsexual character. It's interesting that they added her, but they could have done something more interesting with her. For example, what changes has society and technology had on those who are transsexual? It feels a bit of a missed opportunity. Although maybe that is the point, that nearly 200 years in the future, such things are not considered an issue in society, that people just accept it.
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Lost in bosom, consumed by abs.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
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Post by yeah rip on Jun 27, 2017 14:55:01 GMT
What's stopping women and non-white people? And why is MRA used as a derogatory here? Localised magical barriers surround every seat of authority in the world. Any woman or minority that tries to approach one just ends up slamming against it repeatedly, like a bird against a windshield. Or, possibly, and this is farfetched, but stay with me. It COULD be that the rich, straight white men who devised and control western political and economic systems use their positions to manipulate the system for their own benefit, to the detriment of other, less-fortunate groups. You sure seem to be an expert in how those things work. Do you have any sources though?
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Post by warrior on Jun 27, 2017 14:55:33 GMT
He writes a because there are too many women (I'm sorry, "females") in power in his video game, and not enough white people around? L M A O. Apparently he can't enjoy a fantasy space that doesn't perfectly replicate the irl hegemony that favors him. yet SJWs are the only crybabies in gaming who can't handle their shit. Got it. Well, MRActivist, the cool thing for you is that this is a video game you can put down whenever you want: men and white people still run pretty much everything in the western world. You have the power, and there are plenty of games out there to reify that for you. So your 90 hour nightmare is over. What's stopping women and non-white people? And why is MRA used as a derogatory here? I don't agree with pretty much anything that guy said, but that's an overreaction. It's just an opinion of one guy and he was perfectly civil about it. Yeah, he is perfectly civil in his insistence that his games can only have a certain % of women in political power positions around his PC before he puts the controller down in disgust. Very articulate when he says that he needs more white people in his game to enjoy it. Come on. Some of us are just tired. I kind of can't (can?) believe a woman is asking me what's wrong with MRA. I can possibly discuss this and your other question with you in PM at some point if you want, so we can maybe try to understand each other... I expect that it would be easier to have a productive discussion that way.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 27, 2017 14:56:21 GMT
Localised magical barriers surround every seat of authority in the world. Any woman or minority that tries to approach one just ends up slamming against it repeatedly, like a bird against a windshield. Or, possibly, and this is farfetched, but stay with me. It COULD be that the rich, straight white men who devised and control western political and economic systems use their positions to manipulate the system for their own benefit, to the detriment of other, less-fortunate groups. You sure seem to be an expert in how those things work. Do you have any sources though? Yeah, I go outside occasionally.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 27, 2017 14:57:13 GMT
What's stopping women and non-white people? And why is MRA used as a derogatory here? I don't agree with pretty much anything that guy said, but that's an overreaction. It's just an opinion of one guy and he was perfectly civil about it. Yeah, he is perfectly civil in his insistence that his games can only have a certain % of women in political power positions around his PC before he puts the controller down in disgust. Very articulate when he says that he needs more white people in his game to enjoy it. Come on. Some of us are just tired. I kind of can't (can?) believe a woman is asking me what's wrong with MRA. I can possibly discuss this and your other question with you in PM at some point if you want, so we can maybe try to understand each other... I expect that it would be easier to have a productive discussion that way. NO DON'T IT'S A TRAP.
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Post by eternalgoddess on Jun 27, 2017 15:00:33 GMT
The only SJW issue I saw was having asari claiming to use different gender pronouns, despite using female-centric ones for almost everything in the original trilogy. Though I do feel they handled some things poorly. Such as the transsexual character. It's interesting that they added her, but they could have done something more interesting with her. For example, what changes has society and technology had on those who are transsexual? It feels a bit of a missed opportunity. Although maybe that is the point, that nearly 200 years in the future, such things are not considered an issue in society, that people just accept it. Don't remind me of that. Had to load up a previous save to make sure I wasn't hearing things.
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Post by canticleofshartan on Jun 27, 2017 15:02:26 GMT
He writes a because there are too many women (I'm sorry, "females") in power in his video game, and not enough white people around? L M A O. Apparently he can't enjoy a fantasy space that doesn't perfectly replicate the irl hegemony that favors him. yet SJWs are the only crybabies in gaming who can't handle their shit. Got it. Well, MRActivist, the cool thing for you is that this is a video game you can put down whenever you want: men and white people still run pretty much everything in the western world. You have the power, and there are plenty of games out there to reify that for you. So your 90 hour nightmare is over. What's stopping women and non-white people? And why is MRA used as a derogatory here? I don't agree with pretty much anything that guy said, but that's an overreaction. It's just an opinion of one guy and he was perfectly civil about it. Each arena of industry and politics might be slightly different, but let's use the videogame industry as an example, just to stay slightly on topic: For some time now the majority of American games were made by and star straight white males. While there's no law or rule stating that other people can't be protagonists or developers, but if they do then it will be seen as unusual, a departure from the normal, and some people will always complain when the status quo that they have become comfortable with is changed. I think that is what we are seeing now with the anti-sjw faction in gaming. They see some change happening and change can be scary when you're used to the way things are; it must seem to them like an artificial, unnecessary change when in reality it is just more, different people wanting to enjoy games too and the market naturally responding to that!
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The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by kino on Jun 27, 2017 15:03:47 GMT
huh. 16 pages and it's still going. I'm more impressed with that than I am anything else.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 27, 2017 15:04:27 GMT
In context of Andromea or any entertainment platform,the SJW mentality it's not about pandering to any given social group......it's about making content as universal as possible so it doesn't offend. The SJW mentality is a double edged sword however,from a creative perspective,the SJW stance tries to enforce fair/honest representation in a non offensive way but adopting this approach limits creative freedom and tends to produce,sterile,plain,generic results. The SJW effect on Andromdea is plain as day.....there are no fat people,no shapely people,no handicap people,skin colour is just a colour,gay,lesbian or straight is just a label,no anger,no rage,even bad language is used in a casual non aggressive way......it's all shallow and generic. Sadly the real drive behind the SJW mentality is business,who at the end of the day get a product they can sell to everyone due to it's generic,harmless nature. Hard to imagine any space program in the future permitting a sizable number of fat or disabled people, though somehow they let Jeff "Mr. Glass" Moreau fly a spaceship. As for people of color and sexual orientation, I think Mass Effect is hardly the setting for that to be an issue to be directly addressed through hostile NPC's. If I wanted forced dialogue of that nature, I could just watch Crash or something.
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I don't like MP!
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Post by warrior on Jun 27, 2017 15:06:32 GMT
In context of Andromea or any entertainment platform,the SJW mentality it's not about pandering to any given social group......it's about making content as universal as possible so it doesn't offend. The SJW mentality is a double edged sword however,from a creative perspective,the SJW stance tries to enforce fair/honest representation in a non offensive way but adopting this approach limits creative freedom and tends to produce,sterile,plain,generic results. The SJW effect on Andromdea is plain as day.....there are no fat people,no shapely people,no handicap people,skin colour is just a colour,gay,lesbian or straight is just a label,no anger,no rage,even bad language is used in a casual non aggressive way......it's all shallow and generic. Sadly the real drive behind the SJW mentality is business,who at the end of the day get a product they can sell to everyone due to it's generic,harmless nature. Hard to imagine any space program in the future permitting a sizable number of fat or disabled people, though somehow they let Jeff "Mr. Glass"? Moreau fly a spaceship. Oh shit, I completely forgot about Joker. Okay, there is one disabled character a video game I've played.
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Post by darkway1 on Jun 27, 2017 15:08:13 GMT
In context of Andromea or any entertainment platform,the SJW mentality it's not about pandering to any given social group......it's about making content as universal as possible so it doesn't offend. The SJW mentality is a double edged sword however,from a creative perspective,the SJW stance tries to enforce fair/honest representation in a non offensive way but adopting this approach limits creative freedom and tends to produce,sterile,plain,generic results. The SJW effect on Andromdea is plain as day.....there are no fat people,no shapely people,no handicap people,skin colour is just a colour,gay,lesbian or straight is just a label,no anger,no rage,even bad language is used in a casual non aggressive way......it's all shallow and generic. Sadly the real drive behind the SJW mentality is business,who at the end of the day get a product they can sell to everyone due to it's generic,harmless nature. Lol, so the only way to avoid being "generic" and "shallow" is to be actively offensive? Also, why do I get labelled as an SJW? I constantly offend people all the time, on purpose. And if Andromeda is so "harmless", why are all the straight, white manbabies throwing tantrums about it? "Lol, so the only way to avoid being "generic" and "shallow" is to be actively offensive?".........how on earth did you come to that conclusion?? "Also, why do I get labelled as an SJW? I constantly offend people all the time, on purpose.".... I don't know why people label you a SJW,I don't know you. Andromeda is harmless.......manbabies are not throwing tantrums because of gay content.......it's because the content (be it gay or straight) is substandard,poor characters,poor writing.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 27, 2017 15:12:55 GMT
Lol, so the only way to avoid being "generic" and "shallow" is to be actively offensive? Also, why do I get labelled as an SJW? I constantly offend people all the time, on purpose. And if Andromeda is so "harmless", why are all the straight, white manbabies throwing tantrums about it? "Lol, so the only way to avoid being "generic" and "shallow" is to be actively offensive?".........how on earth did you come to that conclusion?? "Also, why do I get labelled as an SJW? I constantly offend people all the time, on purpose.".... I don't know why people label you a SJW,I don't know you. Andromeda is harmless.......manbabies are not throwing tantrums because of gay content.......it's because the content (be it gay or straight) is substandard,poor characters,poor writing. You literally said that trying to avoid offending people leads to bland, generic writing. As if racism and sexism and homophobia are precious rarities in mass media. Lol. If you paid the slightest bit of attention to what minorities are actually saying, you'd know that a lot of people, gay men in particular, ARE offended by Mass Effect Andromeda for multiple reasons.
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 27, 2017 15:12:59 GMT
What's stopping women and non-white people? And why is MRA used as a derogatory here? I don't agree with pretty much anything that guy said, but that's an overreaction. It's just an opinion of one guy and he was perfectly civil about it. Each arena of industry and politics might be slightly different, but let's use the videogame industry as an example, just to stay slightly on topic: For some time now the majority of American games were made by and star straight white males. While there's no law or rule stating that other people can't be protagonists or developers, but if they do then it will be seen as unusual, a departure from the normal, and some people will always complain when the status quo that they have become comfortable with is changed. I think that is what we are seeing now with the anti-sjw faction in gaming. They see some change happening and change can be scary when you're used to the way things are; it must seem to them like an artificial, unnecessary change when in reality it is just more, different people wanting to enjoy games too and the market naturally responding to that! I have to agree. Most pc are generic faceless white guy with nothing of note to make them stand out.they are just place holders for the player. It's a wonder when the placeholder gets replace with something other then the norm is what gets people to complain about it.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 27, 2017 15:13:04 GMT
Could you imagine the way the internet would whine about ME 1 if it were released today instead of ten years ago? The asari would be one giant feminist conspiracy because they are an all female race and considered the most successful and most advanced race in the galaxy. Anderson and Udina would be considered forced diversity since neither of them are white. Joker would be forced diversity because of his brittle bone diseases. Ashley because she is a female and tough as nails soldier. Kaidan would be called a beta male because he is not a dick. The inclusion of the Conrad Verner character would be a conspiracy to make white males look like goofy doofuses and of course all the aliens would be forced diversity.
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I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by warrior on Jun 27, 2017 15:13:15 GMT
You sure seem to be an expert in how those things work. Do you have any sources though? Yeah, I go outside occasionally.
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Post by Verro on Jun 27, 2017 15:15:21 GMT
Hard to imagine any space program in the future permitting a sizable number of fat or disabled people, though somehow they let Jeff "Mr. Glass"? Moreau fly a spaceship. Oh shit, I completely forgot about Joker. Okay, there is one disabled character a video game I've played. And that's the sign of a well made character imo. Dude has a disability but people tend to forget about that because he's more than a sign saying ''Hey, remember my legs?''.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 27, 2017 15:16:14 GMT
Could you imagine the way the internet would whine about ME 1 if it were released today instead of ten years ago? The asari would be one giant feminist conspiracy because they are an all female race and considered the most successful and most advanced race in the galaxy. Anderson and Udina would be considered forced diversity since neither of them are white. Joker would be forced diversity because of his brittle bone diseases. Ashley because she is a female and tough as nails soldier. Kaidan would be called a beta male because he is not a dick. The inclusion of the Conrad Verner would be a conspiracy to make white males look like goofy doofuses and of course all the aliens would be forced diversity. Actually that's a good question. How the fuck DID Mass Effect ever become successful in the first place, with all its left-wing, feminazi, reverse-racist propoganda?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 27, 2017 15:18:19 GMT
Oh shit, I completely forgot about Joker. Okay, there is one disabled character a video game I've played. And that's the sign of a well made character imo. Dude has a disability but people tend to forget about that because he's more than a walking sign saying ''Hey, remember my legs?''. So the best way to write diversity is to make it utterly forgettable.
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 27, 2017 15:19:18 GMT
Lol, so the only way to avoid being "generic" and "shallow" is to be actively offensive? Also, why do I get labelled as an SJW? I constantly offend people all the time, on purpose. And if Andromeda is so "harmless", why are all the straight, white manbabies throwing tantrums about it? "Lol, so the only way to avoid being "generic" and "shallow" is to be actively offensive?".........how on earth did you come to that conclusion?? "Also, why do I get labelled as an SJW? I constantly offend people all the time, on purpose.".... I don't know why people label you a SJW,I don't know you. Andromeda is harmless.......manbabies are not throwing tantrums because of gay content.......it's because the content (be it gay or straight) is substandard,poor characters,poor writing. ha ha...nope. where have you been before the game launched? You must of just stuck in the hole for all that time. Fact 1. People were complaining about so called sjw pandering way before mea lauched. Fact 2. MEA is unfinished, a good deal of the line at the start are bad but story is far from badly written. The issue is that the game is badly pace and organize and the good bits are under a mass of boring truck loads. They massed up the most interesting part of me with is the galexy side missions in the galexy map and cut them out and put them all on the main planets and force you to deal with the boring parts.of mass effect.
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 27, 2017 15:20:47 GMT
And that's the sign of a well made character imo. Dude has a disability but people tend to forget about that because he's more than a walking sign saying ''Hey, remember my legs?''. So the best way to write diversity is to make it utterly forgettable. more like just showing just to treat these people as normal people.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 27, 2017 15:23:53 GMT
So the best way to write diversity is to make it utterly forgettable. more like just showing just to treat these people as normal people. Normal. Forgettable. Same difference, amirite?
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Post by canticleofshartan on Jun 27, 2017 15:25:22 GMT
Lol, so the only way to avoid being "generic" and "shallow" is to be actively offensive? Also, why do I get labelled as an SJW? I constantly offend people all the time, on purpose. And if Andromeda is so "harmless", why are all the straight, white manbabies throwing tantrums about it? "Lol, so the only way to avoid being "generic" and "shallow" is to be actively offensive?".........how on earth did you come to that conclusion?? "Also, why do I get labelled as an SJW? I constantly offend people all the time, on purpose.".... I don't know why people label you a SJW,I don't know you. Andromeda is harmless.......manbabies are not throwing tantrums because of gay content.......it's because the content (be it gay or straight) is substandard,poor characters,poor writing. Yeah they did exaggerate your stance and they could have been more civil but to be fair it did sound like you were saying that the SJW drive to "not be offensive to anyone" was contributing to the games genericness and shallowness.
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I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 717 Likes: 1,021
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Post by warrior on Jun 27, 2017 15:27:08 GMT
Oh shit, I completely forgot about Joker. Okay, there is one disabled character a video game I've played. And that's the sign of a well made character imo. Dude has a disability but people tend to forget about that because he's more than a sign saying ''Hey, remember my legs?''. I think I just forgot because I just woke up. They actually don't erase or ignore it -- I think he (and Shep to some extent, who can ask about it and get the story from him) actually references it a fair amount, given the screentime he gets. But when he does it (mostly) seems part of the natural flow of the conversation or events. Which is what I meant before -- MEA doesn't have the same caliber of writers as the MET, and people who already hate "SJWs" are eager to blame it on that.
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Post by Verro on Jun 27, 2017 15:27:30 GMT
And that's the sign of a well made character imo. Dude has a disability but people tend to forget about that because he's more than a walking sign saying ''Hey, remember my legs?''. So the best way to write diversity is to make it utterly forgettable. Best way to write diversity is to make characters who have more depth than their disability. Should Joker have just been a cripple in a wheelchair with no personality at all just so people remember the disabled part of him? Toph Beifong from Avatar: The Last Airbender also jumps to my mind. Character is blind, yet even the other characters in the show forget that every now and again because the character is more than just a disability.
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