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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 27, 2017 23:47:59 GMT
If there is any genre that can be versatile it can be rpgs. Most rpgs are huge games with lots of optional content and they often let you approach the game in more than one way. I think as long as the rpg developer is good at taking in feedback they can address the needs of most of the players (collectively speaking) in a fairly diverse manner. Of course there is no way a game can account for every little taste in preference that people on an individual level may have but I think larger groups of people from various general demographics can have their wants and needs accounted for by a good developer. True. That's the goal. And that's what BW tried to do. Unfortunately, they missed the mark. At least they make the attempt. How many developers actually allow you to create your own protagonist of your choice including gender, race, and even orientation? Most games and even some other rpg developers you are stuck with one set in stone character. Their success might vary from game to game but at least they give you options in their games.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jun 28, 2017 0:01:35 GMT
Trying my best.I'm sure it will be fine. I am not sure if I should be proud of this thread or not. Normally if I get a thread that blows up I am proud of it but going in I knew this one would be a different animal. Nah, it's a good topic and it's mostly been pretty civil. That's a good reason to be proud of it. I sure as hell didn't expect it to last past 4 pages, much less 20.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 0:24:46 GMT
I am pretty moderate and middle of the road when it comes to this kind of stuff (which of course means both sides won't like me very much). I will say this when it comes to games in general and especially rpgs the more options the better. People should be able to role play the kind of the character they want and one they can relate to. It hurts nobody to have more pliable optional content in the game. My main motivation for starting this thread was to rant about what I see as a lot of hyperbole and largely baseless accusations being thrown at this game because there are people that are just looking for an excuse to hate the game and the developer so of course they boogeymen within the game that don't actually exist. Amen. I just wonder if our (m-f) needs/interests are compatible. It seems to me women tend to want different things out of games than men. (please note the word tend) It would be easier for me to take you seriously if you'd quit talking about men and women as if they are homogeneous groups whose members are identical in their wants, needs, desires. They're not. Also, if you'd quit talking about "what men want" and instead personalize it. Unless you can demonstrate that you've been elected as a spokesman for all men, what you're really expressing are your own personal desires. Finally, there is quite a variety of reactions to some of BioWare's characters - even among this supposedly homogeneous group of men you claim to represent. What you find fugly others find hot, and vice-versa.
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Post by warrior on Jun 28, 2017 0:35:12 GMT
Frankly, if the enormous imbalance of power between straight white men and everyone else isn't already apparent to you, then providing sources would be a complete waste of my fucking time. You're either ignorant of the outside world at a level to rival most Disney princesses, or you're just blatantly sealioning. Like, do you ever even turn on the news? Women can't get adequate help or justice when straight white men rape or abuse them, native americans are forced to live in squalor with inadequate schooling, black people are wrongfully killed by police on a regular basis, and gays don't have the right to marry in most countries, and are even systemically executed in others. and Donald Trump is the president of the USA! he ran on a platform of love and understanding for everyone, especially brown people and women. and he shows us that love everyday. Everything is totally great. Except there are too many (ugly) women and not enough white people in Mass Effect: Andromeda. ETA: //politics, I will try to stay on topic, I promise.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Jun 28, 2017 1:13:26 GMT
Amen. I just wonder if our (m-f) needs/interests are compatible. It seems to me women tend to want different things out of games than men. (please note the word tend) It would be easier for me to take you seriously if you'd quit talking about men and women as if they are homogeneous groups whose members are identical in their wants, needs, desires. They're not. Also, if you'd quit talking about "what men want" and instead personalize it. Unless you can demonstrate that you've been elected as a spokesman for all men, what you're really expressing are your own personal desires. Finally, there is quite a variety of reactions to some of BioWare's characters - even among this supposedly homogeneous group of men you claim to represent. What you find fugly others find hot, and vice-versa. Did you note my use of the word "tend"? It's an acknowledgment that we can only speak broadly, in terms of tendencies and trends. Of course, lots of people will respond in lots of ways. Generally speaking, though, the characters in MEA are not very attractive, if not necessarily ugly. Empirically, this can be proven. As I stated earlier, symmetry cuts across culture zones.
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Post by anarchy65 on Jun 28, 2017 1:40:09 GMT
This guy really thinks he can "empirically proves" that the characters from Mass Effect Andromeda are not attractive.
Seriously, he's more hilarious than the guy that said there aren't enough white people in the game. At least THAT he could try to prove empirically.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 1:48:59 GMT
It would be easier for me to take you seriously if you'd quit talking about men and women as if they are homogeneous groups whose members are identical in their wants, needs, desires. They're not. Also, if you'd quit talking about "what men want" and instead personalize it. Unless you can demonstrate that you've been elected as a spokesman for all men, what you're really expressing are your own personal desires. Finally, there is quite a variety of reactions to some of BioWare's characters - even among this supposedly homogeneous group of men you claim to represent. What you find fugly others find hot, and vice-versa. Did you note my use of the word "tend"? It's an acknowledgment that we can only speak broadly, in terms of tendencies and trends. Of course, lots of people will respond in lots of ways. That's a cop-out. I could just as easily say that accountants tend to prefer bourbon on the rocks, lawyers tend to drink their scotch neat, everyone born in Nawlins tends to listen to jazz exclusively, and everyone who lives in California tends to surf. I've met at least 2 people in each of those categories, so it must be a trend. FTFY.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jun 28, 2017 2:07:25 GMT
It would be easier for me to take you seriously if you'd quit talking about men and women as if they are homogeneous groups whose members are identical in their wants, needs, desires. They're not. Also, if you'd quit talking about "what men want" and instead personalize it. Unless you can demonstrate that you've been elected as a spokesman for all men, what you're really expressing are your own personal desires. Finally, there is quite a variety of reactions to some of BioWare's characters - even among this supposedly homogeneous group of men you claim to represent. What you find fugly others find hot, and vice-versa. Did you note my use of the word "tend"? It's an acknowledgment that we can only speak broadly, in terms of tendencies and trends. Of course, lots of people will respond in lots of ways. Generally speaking, though, the characters in MEA are not very attractive, if not necessarily ugly. Empirically, this can be proven. As I stated earlier, symmetry cuts across culture zones. Typically this isn't my kind of conversation but I have to admit, I do want to see this empirical evidence. Or at least the basis for the claim. I'm genuinely curious how you'd prove that hypothesis.
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Post by yeah rip on Jun 28, 2017 2:26:50 GMT
Frankly, if the enormous imbalance of power between straight white men and everyone else isn't already apparent to you, then providing sources would be a complete waste of my fucking time. You're either ignorant of the outside world at a level to rival most Disney princesses, or you're just blatantly sealioning. Like, do you ever even turn on the news? Women can't get adequate help or justice when straight white men rape or abuse them, native americans are forced to live in squalor with inadequate schooling, black people are wrongfully killed by police on a regular basis, and gays don't have the right to marry in most countries, and are even systemically executed in others. But you don't understand what barriers could possibly exist to prevent these people from obtaining positions of authority in politics and business. Jesus fucking christ. Not every country focuses on American events. Where I'm from, the news of all those terrorist attacks kinda took the spotlight over the woes about white men in power. And I wouldn't take everything said in the news - mainstream or otherwise - as gospel truth, so you'll have to forgive me if I prefer seeing actual sources before jumping into conclusions. What about women getting lighter jail sentences than men for the same crimes, men being more likely to be homeless, the lack of domestic abuse shelters for men, male abuse victims not taken seriously, male rape victims being ignored? Bet they're really enjoying all the benefits that come with those white men in power. Things aren't perfect for anyone, but don't pretend that only women, POCs and LGBTs have problems. Props for mentioning gays being executed in other countries, but you do know that it mostly happens in countries that are not actually run by white men? I would ask for sources on female rape victims not getting help (love how you specified being raped by straight white men, by the way, because no-one else is capable of rape, apparently), but whatever, I give up on waiting for prooflinks. I won't comment on this here anymore, this has gotten too OT. Feel free to PM me if you have anything substantial to add.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Jun 28, 2017 2:34:25 GMT
Did you note my use of the word "tend"? It's an acknowledgment that we can only speak broadly, in terms of tendencies and trends. Of course, lots of people will respond in lots of ways. Generally speaking, though, the characters in MEA are not very attractive, if not necessarily ugly. Empirically, this can be proven. As I stated earlier, symmetry cuts across culture zones. Typically this isn't my kind of conversation but I have to admit, I do want to see this empirical evidence. Or at least the basis for the claim. I'm genuinely curious how you'd prove that hypothesis. Try this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3130383/Another poster posted it. But I've read other similar studies in my psych classes. Culture does play a role, and subjective variation, too. But this doesn't negate general, objective trends. I'm not trying to hate on anyone here. But hiding from truths because they are inconvenient does no one any good.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Jun 28, 2017 2:35:03 GMT
Did you note my use of the word "tend"? It's an acknowledgment that we can only speak broadly, in terms of tendencies and trends. Of course, lots of people will respond in lots of ways. That's a cop-out. I could just as easily say that accountants tend to prefer bourbon on the rocks, lawyers tend to drink their scotch neat, everyone born in Nawlins tends to listen to jazz exclusively, and everyone who lives in California tends to surf. I've met at least 2 people in each of those categories, so it must be a trend. FTFY. Try this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3130383/Another poster posted it. But I've read other similar studies in my psych classes. Culture does play a role, and subjective variation, too. But this doesn't negate general, objective trends. I'm not trying to hate on anyone here. But hiding from truths because they are inconvenient does no one any good.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Jun 28, 2017 2:35:24 GMT
This guy really thinks he can "empirically proves" that the characters from Mass Effect Andromeda are not attractive. Seriously, he's more hilarious than the guy that said there aren't enough white people in the game. At least THAT he could try to prove empirically. Try this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3130383/Another poster posted it. But I've read other similar studies in my psych classes. Culture does play a role, and subjective variation, too. But this doesn't negate general, objective trends. I'm not trying to hate on anyone here. But hiding from truths because they are inconvenient does no one any good.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 28, 2017 2:37:15 GMT
Typically this isn't my kind of conversation but I have to admit, I do want to see this empirical evidence. Or at least the basis for the claim. I'm genuinely curious how you'd prove that hypothesis. Try this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3130383/From the above link... "Despite research on social consequences, exactly what it is that makes a face beautiful remains poorly defined."
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jun 28, 2017 2:44:22 GMT
Typically this isn't my kind of conversation but I have to admit, I do want to see this empirical evidence. Or at least the basis for the claim. I'm genuinely curious how you'd prove that hypothesis. Try this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3130383/Another poster posted it. But I've read other similar studies in my psych classes. Culture does play a role, and subjective variation, too. But this doesn't negate general, objective trends. I'm not trying to hate on anyone here. But hiding from truths because they are inconvenient does no one any good. That's not empirical evidence. It's a study of cultural definitions of beauty and an attempt to quantify it. Interesting, but not empirical by any means. "Despite research on social consequences, exactly what it is that makes a face beautiful remains poorly defined." What it boils down to is that you don't find the women of ME:A attractive, and that's fine. But concluding that everyone else who doesn't share that conclusion is incorrect is not.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jun 28, 2017 2:49:16 GMT
From the above link... "Despite research on social consequences, exactly what it is that makes a face beautiful remains poorly defined." Dammit, Faceman...ninja'd.
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Post by anarchy65 on Jun 28, 2017 2:49:48 GMT
This guy really thinks he can "empirically proves" that the characters from Mass Effect Andromeda are not attractive. Seriously, he's more hilarious than the guy that said there aren't enough white people in the game. At least THAT he could try to prove empirically. Try this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3130383/Another poster posted it. But I've read other similar studies in my psych classes. Culture does play a role, and subjective variation, too. But this doesn't negate general, objective trends. I'm not trying to hate on anyone here. But hiding from truths because they are inconvenient does no one any good. You're the one that is hiding from truth, and copying and pasting a link you probably didn't even read here won't change it. I could also paste dozens of articles that say beauty are socially constructed. Writing an article doesn't make these guys right. Actually you can see this article is poorly written when the guys starts the Introduction already making conclusions and preassumptions. Even if you "prove" most people of different cultures are attracted by a certain kind of face, it doesn't prove that other faces aren't "attractive". If I'm attracted to Peebee, then her face is attractive to me, and therefore you can't afirm she is not attractive, basic logic. And why's that? Because attractiveness is not an inherent part of a person. It's like saying "this book doesn't contain any kind of useful information" because it doesn't have the information you're looking for or information that most people would find useless. If you made the same experiment with an alien and nobody in Earth felt attraction to the alien, does this mean allaliens are ugly? It's just stupid and pseudoscience (which of course, conservatives like you love it)
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Post by anarchy65 on Jun 28, 2017 2:51:22 GMT
Try this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3130383/Another poster posted it. But I've read other similar studies in my psych classes. Culture does play a role, and subjective variation, too. But this doesn't negate general, objective trends. I'm not trying to hate on anyone here. But hiding from truths because they are inconvenient does no one any good. That's not empirical evidence. It's a study of cultural definitions of beauty and an attempt to quantify it. Interesting, but not empirical by any means. "Despite research on social consequences, exactly what it is that makes a face beautiful remains poorly defined." What it boils down to is that you don't find the women of ME:A attractive, and that's fine. But concluding that everyone else who doesn't share that conclusion is incorrect is not. Haha, that just proved what I said: He just copy-pasted the link, but he didn't actually read a word. Just what I would expect from a conservative. A tip to "I'd rather be Mordin Solus". If you wanna be Mordin Solus, you should actually read the things you post. Mordin Solus would.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 28, 2017 2:51:41 GMT
Golly gee what an argument this turned out to be. Whatevs. ME1 Ashley, ME3 Liara and Suvi are the only female companions that I've ever considered to be considerably attractive across the board. Miranda should've been up there, but that uncanny valley thing is a bitch to overcome (and her hair sucks but whatever). Personally I think Liam is better looking than Kaidan, though Kaidan wins for at least having his act together…at least until he becomes one with Virmire's atmosphere.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 28, 2017 2:53:27 GMT
That's not empirical evidence. It's a study of cultural definitions of beauty and an attempt to quantify it. Interesting, but not empirical by any means. "Despite research on social consequences, exactly what it is that makes a face beautiful remains poorly defined." What it boils down to is that you don't find the women of ME:A attractive, and that's fine. But concluding that everyone else who doesn't share that conclusion is incorrect is not. Haha, that just proved what I said: He just copy-pasted the link, but he didn't actually read a word. Just what I would expect from a conservative.
A tip to "I'd rather be Mordin Solus". If you wanna be Mordin Solus, you should actually read the things you read. Mordin Solus would. I'm a conservative and I pointed out this study doesn't support their argument. I suggest avoiding stereotypes. :sure:
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jun 28, 2017 2:55:29 GMT
Golly gee what an argument this turned out to be. Whatevs. ME1 Ashley, ME3 Liara and Suvi are the only female companions that I've ever considered to be considerably attractive across the board. Miranda should've been up there, but that uncanny valley thing is a bitch to overcome (and her hair sucks but whatever). Personally I think Liam is better looking than Kaidan, though Kaidan wins for at least having his act together…at least until he becomes one with Virmire's atmosphere. Becomes one with Virmire's atmosphere...damn, man, that's cold. Besides, I romanced the Tali every time in ME2 and ME3. She's the very definition of finding something you can't see as attractive...though she did have those hips.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Jun 28, 2017 2:56:54 GMT
That's not empirical evidence. It's a study of cultural definitions of beauty and an attempt to quantify it. Interesting, but not empirical by any means. "Despite research on social consequences, exactly what it is that makes a face beautiful remains poorly defined." What it boils down to is that you don't find the women of ME:A attractive, and that's fine. But concluding that everyone else who doesn't share that conclusion is incorrect is not. Haha, that just proved what I said: He just copy-pasted the link, but he didn't actually read a word. Just what I would expect from a conservative. A tip to "I'd rather be Mordin Solus". If you wanna be Mordin Solus, you should actually read the things you read. Mordin Solus would. www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201004/beauty-culture-specific-or-universally-defined
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 2:57:22 GMT
So much hatred in this thread...
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 28, 2017 3:00:09 GMT
Golly gee what an argument this turned out to be. Whatevs. ME1 Ashley, ME3 Liara and Suvi are the only female companions that I've ever considered to be considerably attractive across the board. Miranda should've been up there, but that uncanny valley thing is a bitch to overcome (and her hair sucks but whatever). Personally I think Liam is better looking than Kaidan, though Kaidan wins for at least having his act together…at least until he becomes one with Virmire's atmosphere. Becomes one with Virmire's atmosphere...damn, man, that's cold. Besides, I romanced the Tali every time in ME2 and ME3. She's the very definition of finding something you can't see as attractive...though she did have those hips. Don't forget the voice. Of course now people have a pretty strong idea of what Tali would look like if her face was actually rendered in the game, like the fan made cutscene.
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anarchy65
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 891 Likes: 1,080
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anarchy65
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Jun 25, 2017 23:54:40 GMT
June 2017
anarchy65
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by anarchy65 on Jun 28, 2017 3:00:49 GMT
Wow, he got from a pseudoscientific article to a blog post that basically doesn't say anything but the author's nonsense logic. Mordin Solus would be disgusted.
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I'd rather be Mordin Solus
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 215 Likes: 105
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Mar 24, 2017 17:28:39 GMT
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Feb 27, 2017 15:44:37 GMT
February 2017
inspiteofthunder
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Jun 28, 2017 3:02:16 GMT
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