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Post by anarchy65 on Jun 28, 2017 3:02:49 GMT
Next thread he is going to prove intelligence can be quantified by the quickness people can resolve math problems.
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anarchy65
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Post by anarchy65 on Jun 28, 2017 3:04:09 GMT
Now he posts another link he didn't even read because you have to actually buy the pdf. Damn, the guy is getting desperate after everyone seeing the fraud he is.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by kino on Jun 28, 2017 3:05:18 GMT
Cool, but still not empirical evidence. He provides nothing close to empirical evidence outside of the waist to hip ratio. And is he pimping his own book at the end of that article? For a psychology article that's tacky.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 28, 2017 3:07:14 GMT
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Jun 28, 2017 3:10:52 GMT
This is from the original article. It confirms what I said earlier: yes, variation exists, lots of it. But beauty is not just a simple social construct.
(BTW. To respond to your ad hominin attacks, I voted for Trudeau and wish he would govern more to the left, like he promised.)
4. SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS Being more or less attractive has important social consequences and people do generally agree on who is and who is not attractive. Beauty is not just a simple social construct—attractiveness appears to be ingrained in our biology. While some aspects of face perception might be innate, other aspects are clearly influenced by experience; it seems unlikely that individuals are born with a representation of what a perfect partner looks like.
Structural and other aspects of human facial appearance are linked to preferences (§2). If a trait reliably advertises some benefit to the perceiver, then we would expect individuals in a population to find that trait attractive. It is clear that individual differences in preferences for some traits will prove adaptive and so are consistent with evolutionary theory. We document several potentially adaptive individual differences in human face preferences as well as other factors that may lead to variable preferences (§3). Research on human facial attractiveness has benefited greatly from an evolutionary/biological perspective, both in terms of documenting what traits are likely to be important and in predicting individual variation. Work on facial attractiveness is also integrative, combining theories and methods from behavioural ecology, cognition, cross-cultural research and social psychology.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 28, 2017 3:14:02 GMT
Who cares? Kahlee Sanders is the hottest character in Mass Effect, and she's unavailable.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Jun 28, 2017 3:16:25 GMT
And again. This stuff is all over Google Scholar.
The biology of facial beauty Authors B. Fink, N. Neave First published: 18 November 2005Full publication history DOI: 10.1111/j.1467-2494.2005.00286.x View/save citation Cited by (CrossRef): 20 articles Check for updates Citation tools Bernhard Fink, Department for Sociobiology/Anthropology, Institute for Zoology & Anthropology, University of Goettingen, Berliner Strasse 28, D-37073 Goettingen, Germany. Tel.: +49 551 39 9344; fax: +49 551 39 7299; e-mail: bernhard.fink@ieee.org EnglishFrench Synopsis
It was once widely believed that standards of beauty were arbitrarily variable. Recent research suggests, however, that people's views of facial attractiveness are remarkably consistent, regardless of race, nationality or age. Facial characteristics are known to influence human attractiveness judgements and evolutionary psychologists suggest that these characteristics all pertain to health, leading to the conclusion that humans have evolved to view certain bodily features as attractive because the features were displayed by healthy others. Here we review some of the fundamental principles of sexual selection theory that apply to human beauty and summarize the major findings of human beauty perception.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 28, 2017 3:17:50 GMT
And again. This stuff is all over Google Scholar. The biology of facial beauty Authors B. Fink, N. Neave First published: 18 November 2005Full publication history DOI: 10.1111/j.1467-2494.2005.00286.x View/save citation Cited by (CrossRef): 20 articles Check for updates Citation tools Bernhard Fink, Department for Sociobiology/Anthropology, Institute for Zoology & Anthropology, University of Goettingen, Berliner Strasse 28, D-37073 Goettingen, Germany. Tel.: +49 551 39 9344; fax: +49 551 39 7299; e-mail: bernhard.fink@ieee.org EnglishFrench Synopsis It was once widely believed that standards of beauty were arbitrarily variable. Recent research suggests, however, that people's views of facial attractiveness are remarkably consistent, regardless of race, nationality or age. Facial characteristics are known to influence human attractiveness judgements and evolutionary psychologists suggest that these characteristics all pertain to health, leading to the conclusion that humans have evolved to view certain bodily features as attractive because the features were displayed by healthy others. Here we review some of the fundamental principles of sexual selection theory that apply to human beauty and summarize the major findings of human beauty perception. The first link you provided already admits that science hasn't gone beyond "poorly defining" what is or is not beauty. Not sure why you keep providing more links. The damage is already done.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Jun 28, 2017 3:23:47 GMT
And again. This stuff is all over Google Scholar. The biology of facial beauty Authors B. Fink, N. Neave First published: 18 November 2005Full publication history DOI: 10.1111/j.1467-2494.2005.00286.x View/save citation Cited by (CrossRef): 20 articles Check for updates Citation tools Bernhard Fink, Department for Sociobiology/Anthropology, Institute for Zoology & Anthropology, University of Goettingen, Berliner Strasse 28, D-37073 Goettingen, Germany. Tel.: +49 551 39 9344; fax: +49 551 39 7299; e-mail: bernhard.fink@ieee.org EnglishFrench Synopsis It was once widely believed that standards of beauty were arbitrarily variable. Recent research suggests, however, that people's views of facial attractiveness are remarkably consistent, regardless of race, nationality or age. Facial characteristics are known to influence human attractiveness judgements and evolutionary psychologists suggest that these characteristics all pertain to health, leading to the conclusion that humans have evolved to view certain bodily features as attractive because the features were displayed by healthy others. Here we review some of the fundamental principles of sexual selection theory that apply to human beauty and summarize the major findings of human beauty perception. The first link you provided already admits that science hasn't gone beyond "poorly defining" what is or is not beauty. Not sure why you keep providing more links. The damage is already done. Do some digging for yourself. Google Scholar, not the general web. Find peer-reviewed studies. It's a complex and very interesting topic. You're absolutely right. It's very poorly defined. And there is lots of variation. But there is clear evidence of a universal beauty standard.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 28, 2017 3:24:43 GMT
The first link you provided already admits that science hasn't gone beyond "poorly defining" what is or is not beauty. Not sure why you keep providing more links. The damage is already done. Do some digging for yourself. Google Scholar, not the general web. Find peer-reviewed studies. It's a complex and very interesting topic. You're absolutely right. It's very poorly defined. And there is lots of variation. But there is clear evidence of a universal beauty standard. There is not clear evidence of a universal beauty standard. I just pointed that out, as did your first link.
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Post by kino on Jun 28, 2017 3:30:40 GMT
Do some digging for yourself. Google Scholar, not the general web. Find peer-reviewed studies. It's a complex and very interesting topic. You're absolutely right. It's very poorly defined. And there is lots of variation. But there is clear evidence of a universal beauty standard. There is not clear evidence of a universal beauty standard. I just pointed that out, as did your first link. Yeah, I'm having a difficult time seeing how something like beauty or aesthetics could be standardized, particularly if it's poorly defined and suffers from variation. Hell, all I wanted to know was how the empirical evidence is proven. I'm still not seeing that. ...I'm having flashbacks to the video game females and makeup part of this thread. I knew there was a reason I didn't dip my toe in those waters.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 28, 2017 4:13:33 GMT
The people who brand the game "SJW propaganda" are the type to do so at any level of inclusivity. Plus, many of them react to Bioware like a dogwhistle, actual engagement of the game is not necessary for their virtue signalling. Well said.
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Post by mordrek on Jun 28, 2017 6:07:22 GMT
Frankly, if the enormous imbalance of power between straight white men and everyone else isn't already apparent to you, then providing sources would be a complete waste of my fucking time. You're either ignorant of the outside world at a level to rival most Disney princesses, or you're just blatantly sealioning. Like, do you ever even turn on the news? Women can't get adequate help or justice when straight white men rape or abuse them, native americans are forced to live in squalor with inadequate schooling, black people are wrongfully killed by police on a regular basis, and gays don't have the right to marry in most countries, and are even systemically executed in others. But you don't understand what barriers could possibly exist to prevent these people from obtaining positions of authority in politics and business. Jesus fucking christ. That's funny. Lets break this down. Margaret Thatcher probably ruled Great Britain, before you were born. Not to mention a bunch of Queen's all over Europe during the Monarchy period. What women haven't been able to get criminal charges against "white males" who rape them? Speaking about NA's as some monolithic group is a joke. Each Tribe, there are more than 200, has it's own society and social structure, as well as economy. Some are dirt poor, and in some every member of the Tribe is a millionaire. As for Blacks, 2015 - 495/258/172 - White/Black/Hispanic - Considering Blacks commit violent crime at 3x the rate of their population, it makes sense that they'd have a higher rate of being shot. www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-43WaPo isn't exactly a right-wing newspaper. And as for the LGBTQ community, can you name a country not "run by white men" that treats gays better? Here you go, the countries where LGBTQ can marry... notice anything? Like the fact that nearly everyone of them is ruled by "white men". www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2015/06/29/the-countries-where-gay-marriage-is-legal-map/#6f3abdb2684dLots of injustice in this world. Blaming it on "White Men" just makes you sexist, and racist.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Jun 28, 2017 6:15:53 GMT
You can argue there's certain traits (symmetry, unblemished skin, assorted secondary sexual characteristics and so on) that are broadly considered attractive. I don't think anyone's going to argue that point too hard.
It's saying Suvi and Cora aren't hot that's much harder to prove. Let alone Peebee and Vetra, 'cause let's be honest, they both have weird scale skin thanks to their species. But Vetra's still hot as all get-out, and my only MEA romance (so far). Granted, I skip romances a significant portion of the time.
But still. Suvi's hot. So's Cora... And I'm so very biased, but default Ryder is cute, too.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 28, 2017 6:40:39 GMT
Damn this was going so well and it escalated fast. I think time for rational debate is long gone.
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 28, 2017 6:53:56 GMT
Well, the dudebros with victim complexes have made their appearance. Now would probably be a good time to close this.
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Post by warrior on Jun 28, 2017 7:13:38 GMT
Anyway, as long as the thread is still open: we've only talked about the women. I'm going to say that the hottest human male character in the entire Mass Effect series is default MaleShep, especially in ME3. I don't think anyone else can really compare. He's just really in another league. Kai Leng second. Then Jacob. Then default Alec Ryder (Silver Fox of the highest order). Then Kaidan. Then Vega. Then Reyes. Then Cortez. Then Liam. Then Joker. Then default Scott Ryder. Then The Illusive Man. Then Captain Anderson. Then Zaeed. Then Admiral Hackett. . . . . . . Then Gil. I think that's my ranking. Am I missing someone?
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 28, 2017 7:17:03 GMT
Well, the dudebros with victim complexes have made their appearance. Now would probably be a good time to close this. Yeah it had a good run. Now this thread is like this.
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Post by rahavan on Jun 28, 2017 9:54:39 GMT
Anyway, as long as the thread is still open: we've only talked about the women. I'm going to say that the hottest human male character in the entire Mass Effect series is default MaleShep, especially in ME3. I don't think anyone else can really compare. He's just really in another league. Kai Leng second. Then Jacob. Then default Alec Ryder (Silver Fox of the highest order). Then Kaidan. Then Vega. Then Reyes. Then Cortez. Then Liam. Then Joker. Then default Scott Ryder. Then The Illusive Man. Then Captain Anderson. Then Zaeed. Then Admiral Hackett. . . . . . . Then Gil. I think that's my ranking. Am I missing someone? Hainly Abrams runs and hides in a hole
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Post by canticleofshartan on Jun 28, 2017 11:07:43 GMT
Anyway, as long as the thread is still open: we've only talked about the women. I'm going to say that the hottest human male character in the entire Mass Effect series is default MaleShep, especially in ME3. I don't think anyone else can really compare. He's just really in another league. Kai Leng second. Then Jacob. Then default Alec Ryder (Silver Fox of the highest order). Then Kaidan. Then Vega. Then Reyes. Then Cortez. Then Liam. Then Joker. Then default Scott Ryder. Then The Illusive Man. Then Captain Anderson. Then Zaeed. Then Admiral Hackett. . . . . . . Then Gil. I think that's my ranking. Am I missing someone? Hainly Abrams runs and hides in a holecareful not to cut yourself on that edge, my dude.
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Post by darkway1 on Jun 28, 2017 12:05:59 GMT
One last stab before the thread gets locked.....
Andromeda has some dark and interesting quests,dealing with subjects like.....
Growing weed.... Cannibals.... Inter species sex.... Murder/crime...
My issue is with the way it's all handled,it's generic and avoids all the substance needed to address such subject matter.....so why go generic?
Having played the game from start to be finish I personally didn't see any so called SJW propaganda at all......however the SJW mentality (to me) would explain why the game is so generic,the SJW mentality is about equality and fair representation for all.....and Andromeda mimics this mentality perfectly.
For me,I don't really care about gay,black,drug etc issues in general,I'm interested in quality writing and direction....making me very inclusive as long as the subject matter is handled well.The way I see it,the SJW mentality presents far to many restrictions and limitations in an attempt to not offend or fairly represent.This in turn starts to dictate creativity and design choices......which inevitability results with "play it safe" generic content.
My concern is with Biowares ability to produce narrative with substance,sticking gay,straight labels on people isn't really good enough,their generic approach to content demeans every thing Bioware is known for,making Andromeda a mighty step backwards in terms of quality.
At the end of the day,Andromeda is done,no debate will change it but going forward I hope EA/Bioware learns from Andromeda......seeing A possible Dragon Age affected by the same creative limitations would be the last and final nail in the coffin for Bioware (for me).
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Post by abaris on Jun 28, 2017 12:18:57 GMT
Having played the game from start to be finish I personally didn't see any so called SJW propaganda at all......however the SJW mentality (to me) would explain why the game is so generic,the SJW mentality is about equality and fair representation for all.....and Andromeda mimics this mentality perfectly. It doesn't mimic this mentality perfectly. What it does is the result of bad or lackluster writing. They can do better. The same company, not this division, has proven this time and time again. Last seen with Dorian, as compared to Gil, Sera, as compared to Suvi and Krem as compared to Abrams. Their's were interesting stories. People still had ridiculous issues over them, but that's just showing how narrow minded these self declared anti SJW warriors ultimately are.
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Post by darkway1 on Jun 28, 2017 12:54:25 GMT
Having played the game from start to be finish I personally didn't see any so called SJW propaganda at all......however the SJW mentality (to me) would explain why the game is so generic,the SJW mentality is about equality and fair representation for all.....and Andromeda mimics this mentality perfectly. It doesn't mimic this mentality perfectly. What it does is the result of bad or lackluster writing. They can do better. The same company, not this division, has proven this time and time again. Last seen with Dorian, as compared to Gil, Sera, as compared to Suvi and Krem as compared to Abrams. Their's were interesting stories. People still had ridiculous issues over them, but that's just showing how narrow minded these self declared anti SJW warriors ultimately are. It does mimic the mentality perfectly but from a meta data point of view....gay's,lesbians,colours,every thing and anything,it's all there but it's all shallow and empty......it's how business handles the SJW mentality. Dorian was my fav companion in DAI,he entertained me,very funny,charismatic........to me the whole gender/sex aspect becomes irrelevant when offered a well designed "good" character. DAI overall demonstrated a more blatant SJW stance in my opinion......bikini armour got ridiculed from a front line warrior,who's half naked.....Bull......and then there's Krem of course who literally sums up my issue's with Bioware creative direction.......Bioware just planted a Transgender sticker on the characters head (Krem) and changed the voice......the writing did nothing to establish good characterisation.
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Post by abaris on Jun 28, 2017 13:02:29 GMT
DAI overall demonstrated a more blatant SJW stance in my opinion......bikini armour got ridiculed from a front line warrior,who's half naked.....Bull......and then there's Krem of course who literally sums up my issue's with Bioware creative direction.......Bioware just planted a Transgender sticker on the characters head (Krem) and changed the voice......the writing did nothing to establish good characterisation. According to your humble self. The writing did a lot to establish a good characterisation. Just over the whole game, not in one sentence.
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Post by darkway1 on Jun 28, 2017 13:18:05 GMT
DAI overall demonstrated a more blatant SJW stance in my opinion......bikini armour got ridiculed from a front line warrior,who's half naked.....Bull......and then there's Krem of course who literally sums up my issue's with Bioware creative direction.......Bioware just planted a Transgender sticker on the characters head (Krem) and changed the voice......the writing did nothing to establish good characterisation. According to your humble self. The writing did a lot to establish a good characterisation. Just over the whole game, not in one sentence. Well,for me Krem as a character was instantly forgettable,which is surprising considering Krem's background......but again it's about the SJW fair representation mentality........Krem represents in terms of meta data (tick box) but there's no substance there.........and with out substance,you can't achieve quality.
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