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Post by kino on Jun 29, 2017 16:08:22 GMT
Got to get it to 25 pages. Has to happen...for pity's sake, has page 24 turned into the event horizon of a black hole? Edit: Woo! Page 25. Hah! My niece bet me that this topic would never make it to 25 pages. Sucker.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 29, 2017 16:46:03 GMT
But the old BSN will always live on in Tali's sweat. my god that bsn in a nut shell. The love\hate with Solas and Tali's sweet. I just recently found out about that. Man that's nuts. Soon we'll have "What does Jaal taste like?"
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Post by mordivier on Jun 29, 2017 21:33:23 GMT
I don't even know if it is a good idea to start this thread. It probably isn't in all honesty but of all the criticisms leveled at this game (some valid, some not so much) this has to be the single dumbest simply because it isn't in the actual game itself or at least not anything really noticable. Yet the derp brigade insists that there is some sort of "sjw conspiracy" going on with this game yet they never offer proof to back their crap up. Usually it is something like "herr derr I don't like how default Sara looks" or "the cc was deliberately designed to stop me from making a hot chick" or some other dumb crap like that. I am generally not a fan of sjws but I suspect some of these idiots have a much broader definition of "sjw" than I do. Fortuately it isn't as bad here as even those that don't like the game usually don't fall back on the "it's sjw" routine (though they do pop up once in a while). Yet we have all run across these idiots in different parts of the internet. Youtube for example is infested with them. What I want to know where is the damn actual proof that this game in and of itself is "sjw propoganda". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior1. Hainly Abrams. They put time and effort to design a character specifically about transgenderism...and you cant criticize it. That is not roleplay...that is an agenda. In DAI you can give the proverbial middle finger to the maker or be a supporter of the maker; you could not even criticize Dorian and/or Krem just for being what they claimed to be. That is an agenda and you and everyone else knows it. If the devs designed the game with the intention of saying that LGBT are perverted deviants who are a detriment to society and your character was forced to be supportive of that then you would see a massive public outrage. People would call that an agenda. Hence, the obvious double standard. Not only that, but Bioware specifically released a letter of address and apology for the way they portrayed Hainly. That is special treatment. That is a focus on specific aspects and NOT the product quality as a whole. That is priority. That is evidence in and of itself. 2. Female characters getting bashed with the "Fugly Stick". Male Ryder is on par with model picture. Sarah Ryder is not. By all indications they altered the face to make her more "generic" and/or "normal"(as of yet no statement of fact, but it fits the theme of what else they did in the game and is supported by the video below). It would seem to be based on not wanted to be criticized for following the so-called "sexually objectifying women in video games". That is also ignoring PeeBee and the clones of the Asari in general and the rest of the CC preset options(minus the new ones released recently but only after criticism). Take note at 5:12 and onwards. That is clearly an agenda. The bottom-line; It takes time, money and effort to design the game with these ideals in mind. They spent time to do Hainly Abrams and the FUGLY smashing, but they didn't care about the product quality as a whole. They didn't care about the facial animations or animations in general...they did, however, care about making sure these SJW ideals were placed and put into the game and were sure to apologize for offending people for not portraying Hainly "accurately"...and it is ONLY after heavy criticism that they bothered with the rest. That's all that needs to be said.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 29, 2017 21:56:20 GMT
I don't even know if it is a good idea to start this thread. It probably isn't in all honesty but of all the criticisms leveled at this game (some valid, some not so much) this has to be the single dumbest simply because it isn't in the actual game itself or at least not anything really noticable. Yet the derp brigade insists that there is some sort of "sjw conspiracy" going on with this game yet they never offer proof to back their crap up. Usually it is something like "herr derr I don't like how default Sara looks" or "the cc was deliberately designed to stop me from making a hot chick" or some other dumb crap like that. I am generally not a fan of sjws but I suspect some of these idiots have a much broader definition of "sjw" than I do. Fortuately it isn't as bad here as even those that don't like the game usually don't fall back on the "it's sjw" routine (though they do pop up once in a while). Yet we have all run across these idiots in different parts of the internet. Youtube for example is infested with them. What I want to know where is the damn actual proof that this game in and of itself is "sjw propoganda". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior1. Hainly Abrams. They put time and effort to design a character specifically about transgenderism...and you cant criticize it. That is not roleplay...that is an agenda. In DAI you can give the proverbial middle finger to the maker or be a supporter of the maker; you could not even criticize Dorian and/or Krem just for being what they claimed to be. That is an agenda and you and everyone else knows it. If the devs designed the game with the intention of saying that LGBT are perverted deviants who are a detriment to society and your character was forced to be supportive of that then you would see a massive public outrage. People would call that an agenda. Hence, the obvious double standard. Not only that, but Bioware specifically released a letter of address and apology for the way they portrayed Hainly. That is special treatment. That is a focus on specific aspects and NOT the product quality as a whole. That is priority. That is evidence in and of itself. 2. Female characters getting bashed with the "Fugly Stick". Male Ryder is on par with model picture. Sarah Ryder is not. By all indications they altered the face to make her more "generic" and/or "normal"(as of yet no statement of fact, but it fits the theme of what else they did in the game and is supported by the video below). It would seem to be based on not wanted to be criticized for following the so-called "sexually objectifying women in video games". That is also ignoring PeeBee and the clones of the Asari in general and the rest of the CC preset options(minus the new ones released recently but only after criticism). Take note at 5:12 and onwards. That is clearly an agenda. The bottom-line; It takes time, money and effort to design the game with these ideals in mind. They spent time to do Hainly Abrams and the FUGLY smashing, but they didn't care about the product quality as a whole. They didn't care about the facial animations or animations in general...they did, however, care about making sure these SJW ideals were placed and put into the game and were sure to apologize for offending people for not portraying Hainly "accurately"...and it is ONLY after heavy criticism that they bothered with the rest. That's all that needs to be said.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 29, 2017 21:57:15 GMT
Oh crap I have just become a meme poster
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Post by warrior on Jun 29, 2017 22:03:33 GMT
you're a little late, bro
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Post by mordivier on Jun 29, 2017 22:18:16 GMT
Oh crap I have just become a meme poster Did you now? Interesting on how you would have to effectively call Liam Robertson a liar in order to dismiss his comments based upon his own interview and research. If you do so then that is your choice, but I do find it interesting on how you seemed to have hinged on the youtube video link while ignoring the rest of the points that form the cohesive whole. Such is the way how people with no real rebuttal usually choose to act; attack the one aspect that is perceived to be questionable(all-the-while not really refuting it) while ignoring the rest which give no leeway to do so in the first place.
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Post by canticleofshartan on Jun 29, 2017 22:22:04 GMT
oh, I must have missed the game where we could criticize a straight person for being what they "claimed to be".
youre right, thats very unfair.
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 29, 2017 22:22:45 GMT
People actually think "you can't be a bigot" is a valid criticism. Wow.
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Post by xujparisipc on Jun 29, 2017 22:36:13 GMT
mordivier, anyone rational knows that And the usual response is attack on person who says that instead of statements. Yep that what demagogues do. There is no point in explaining to feelers how logic works Especially within their safe space bubble.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 29, 2017 22:43:01 GMT
mordivier, anyone rational knows that And the usual response is attack on person who says that instead of statements. Yep that what demagogues do. There is no point in explaining to feelers how logic works Especially within their safe space bubble. Oh please you are the snowflakes that can't handle a video game with a little variety.
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Post by kaind on Jun 29, 2017 23:12:35 GMT
People actually think "you can't be a bigot" is a valid criticism. Wow. They don't feel like a bigot. Also being a bigot in a video game opens up cool fun interactions. In DA:O for example as an elf you could be racist against humans, I thought that was pretty cool.
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Post by kaind on Jun 29, 2017 23:13:42 GMT
oh, I must have missed the game where we could criticize a straight person for being what they "claimed to be". youre right, thats very unfair. I wouldn't mind a game where you could criticize anyone for anything. Watched Game of Thrones? There was a guy called Oberyn that thought that being BI was superior to being straight, since you appreciate everything that God has created equally.
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Post by canticleofshartan on Jun 29, 2017 23:25:54 GMT
oh, I must have missed the game where we could criticize a straight person for being what they "claimed to be". youre right, thats very unfair. I wouldn't mind a game where you could criticize anyone for anything. you have a good point: that would make for a lot of cool roleplaying opportunities if you could criticize characters for any of their lifestyle choices! in this case though mordivier is claiming that bioware created a double standard by not letting us criticize gays and trans people specifically for being gay or trans. I just want to know when we were able to criticize straight people specifically for being heterosexual. if that is in the game then I would wholeheartedly agree with mordiver that this is an unfair double standard. so how about it, mordivier? if you show me where that is in the game youll have persuaded me!
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Post by kaind on Jun 29, 2017 23:30:36 GMT
I wouldn't mind a game where you could criticize anyone for anything. in this case though mordivier is claiming that bioware created a double standard by not letting us criticize gays and trans people specifically for being gay or trans. I just want to know when we were able to criticize straight people specifically for being straight. if that is in the game then I would wholeheartedly agree with mordiver that this is an unfair double standard. Quoting mordiver: ''In DAI you can give the proverbial middle finger to the maker or be a supporter of the maker'' This was the double standard. Religious people are real, and in DA:I you can criticize them for it. Now I am not religious myself and I don't like religion, but that is a fair point.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by kino on Jun 29, 2017 23:38:31 GMT
in this case though mordivier is claiming that bioware created a double standard by not letting us criticize gays and trans people specifically for being gay or trans. I just want to know when we were able to criticize straight people specifically for being straight. if that is in the game then I would wholeheartedly agree with mordiver that this is an unfair double standard. Quoting mordiver: ''In DAI you can give the proverbial middle finger to the maker or be a supporter of the maker'' This was the double standard. Religious people are real, and in DA:I you can criticize them for it. Now I am not religious myself and I don't like religion, but that is a fair point. "...you could not even criticize Dorian and/or Krem just for being what they claimed to be." However, you also can't criticize another character for being heterosexual in DAI. That's not a double standard. It's a level playing field.
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Post by canticleofshartan on Jun 29, 2017 23:39:11 GMT
in this case though mordivier is claiming that bioware created a double standard by not letting us criticize gays and trans people specifically for being gay or trans. I just want to know when we were able to criticize straight people specifically for being straight. if that is in the game then I would wholeheartedly agree with mordiver that this is an unfair double standard. Quoting mordiver: ''In DAI you can give the proverbial middle finger to the maker or be a supporter of the maker'' This was the double standard. Religious people are real, and in DA:I you can criticize them for it. Now I am not religious myself and I don't like religion, but that is a fair point. The chantry is a fictional religion and so is fair game just like elves are a fictional race and so you can be racist against them in origins as you pointed out earlier. Homosexuality however is a real life thing and so is not comparable. You can say andraste was just a crazy mage but you can't say Jesus was a crazy magician. You can say knife ears but you can't say [insert real life racial slur]
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Post by mordivier on Jun 29, 2017 23:40:04 GMT
I wouldn't mind a game where you could criticize anyone for anything. you have a good point: that would make for a lot of cool roleplaying opportunities if you could criticize characters for any of their lifestyle choices! in this case though mordivier is claiming that bioware created a double standard by not letting us criticize gays and trans people specifically for being gay or trans. I just want to know when we were able to criticize straight people specifically for being heterosexual. if that is in the game then I would wholeheartedly agree with mordiver that this is an unfair double standard. so how about it, mordivier ? if you show me where that is in the game youll have persuaded me! I never said Bioware created the double standard. The SJW perspective and ideology behind it has that double standard and its ideology is creeping into the video game industry more and more because of identity politics in real life. Entertainment mediums are a reflection of society. Since the context of this entire debate is SJW, which is an ideology in the real world, then to answer your question of when we will be able to criticize straight people for being heterosexual might very well be in future videos games very soon(as a norm that is). I do find it interesting to note that LGBT supporters typically want to moan about equality and representation and more often than not slander those that oppose it anyways. I will say this though; you can claim to support gays or transgender or whatever all you like or claim that your "born that way" but the fact of the matter is that you need converts to continue to flourish. That is why there is such a push for this in the real world. This is why you clamour for representation, for "rights", for "acknowledgement", for "tolerance", because without all that...the LGBT population would inevitably, over and over, die out. They want representation so they can continue their life-style without opposition. Based in that context; I do not have to worry about criticizing heterosexual behavior in games. You can create a video to do so if you wish. It is fantasy, but this type of thing where the devs apologize to trans people because they weren't "represented accurately" is no longer about a fantasy world; its about real identity politics that you wish to put into the game as an acknowledgment and/or support - that is why its called SJW propaganda...because it is.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 23:40:35 GMT
my god that bsn in a nut shell. The love\hate with Solas and Tali's sweet. I just recently found out about that. Man that's nuts. Soon we'll have "What does Jaal taste like?" More like asking Jaal what Ryder tastes like!
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Post by kaind on Jun 29, 2017 23:47:12 GMT
However, you also can't criticize another character for being heterosexual in DAI. That's not a double standard. It's a level playing field. That I agree with, I was talking about the other part on purpose, lol.
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Post by kaind on Jun 29, 2017 23:49:02 GMT
The chantry is a fictional religion and so is fair game just like elves are a fictional race and so you can be racist against them in origins as you pointed out earlier. Homosexuality however is a real life thing and so is not comparable. You can say andraste was just a crazy mage but you can't say Jesus was a crazy magician. You can say knife ears but you can't say [insert real life racial slur] It doesn't really matter, it's the principle. If it's ok to criticize fictional religion and call people of a fictional race with slurs, then it shouldn't be a problem to include real life religion and real life slurs.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by kino on Jun 29, 2017 23:55:38 GMT
However, you also can't criticize another character for being heterosexual in DAI. That's not a double standard. It's a level playing field. That I agree with, I was talking about the other part on purpose, lol. Yeah, but if he's going to go on about "SJW signaling" the whole argument has to be made. His only suggestion was to criticize the only two openly LBGTQ characters in DAI without acknowledging you can't mock heterosexuals as well.The bias in his statement isn't BioWare's, it's his.
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Post by canticleofshartan on Jun 29, 2017 23:58:03 GMT
The chantry is a fictional religion and so is fair game just like elves are a fictional race and so you can be racist against them in origins as you pointed out earlier. Homosexuality however is a real life thing and so is not comparable. You can say andraste was just a crazy mage but you can't say Jesus was a crazy magician. You can say knife ears but you can't say [insert real life racial slur] It doesn't really matter, it's the principle. If it's ok to criticize fictional religion and call people of a fictional race with slurs, then it shouldn't be a problem to include real life religion and real life slurs. That is something you can include in your own game if you wish, but bioware clearly doesn't want to go there. They don't want to offend anyone, and that INCLUDES the straight white conservative people who might feel that bioware is catering to other people at the moment. maybe youd rather Bioware let you say Christians and Americans are evil in their fantasy game, and hey fair enough. There might one day be a game like that out there, but dragon age can't please everyone!
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Post by kaind on Jun 29, 2017 23:59:56 GMT
That I agree with, I was talking about the other part on purpose, lol. Yeah, but if he's going to go on about "SJW signaling" the whole argument has to be made. His only suggestion was to criticize the only two openly LBGTQ characters in DAI without acknowledging you can't mock heterosexuals as well.The bias in his statement isn't BioWare's, it's his. Ok, fair enough, I agree.
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Post by kaind on Jun 30, 2017 0:04:33 GMT
That is something you can include in your own game if you wish, but bioware clearly doesn't want to go there. They don't want to offend anyone, and that INCLUDES the straight white conservative people who might feel that bioware is catering to other people at the moment. maybe youd rather Bioware let you say Christians and Americans are evil in their fantasy game, and hey fair enough. There might one day be a game like that out there, but dragon age can't please everyone! This is just funny to me in a way, since for me it's one and the same. I look at things on a deeper level and acknowledge the main underlying principles. America and conservationism etc. have absolutely nothing to do with a medieval fantasy, and have no place in DA, but here's the thing - in a Bioware game you CAN be racist, and if you can be racist, I don't see why can't you be sexist or homophobic, or straight-phobic or whatever, imo would be fair game.
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