I fail to see how this game is "sjw propoganda"

Are you one of the people that would get upset if it was not fictional?

I am a person that like options, the more options the better. Yes it is a fantasy but at the end of the day it has to be rooted in realism, yes it might have magic and dragons but it still has physics and biology, also it has psychology that is pretty much exactly the same as in our world, and so I see the very same moral issues in these games as IRL. 

In my escapist fantasy I would love to be able to be the real me, to agree with what I want and to criticize what I don't like, no matter what it is, and no matter how acceptable or controversial those thoughts might be IRL. 

I appreciate the honesty! you clearly know what you want and arent afraid to stand by and own up to your views, and I admire that!

as promised I will answer too:

Ill admit i havent been completely honest about my own opinion.
See, i actually agree that it could be fun to have options to criticize game characters for any of their decisions, even ones that are controversial irl.

However I dont believe that the decision not to include this option is due to some SJW agenda that is forbidding bioware from including it. Since that is the context that this entire thing has been brought up in, I find myself debating against the idea that the lack of this option is a bad thing, or at least against the idea that its absence is due to unfair bias.

if you had brought up the idea on its own then I honestly would probably be agreeing with you!

went back to read this and yeah these are completely legitimate complaints about the game, especially if one was expecting something more similar to the original trilogy. Very insightful and well thought out!

I guess im just not seeing where this tonal shift connects to SJWs. Everything I hear about what most people call "SJW"s seems to say that theyre extremely vocal, angry, and willing to be offensive as long as its against specific demographics (conservative, straight white) and for others (liberal, LGBT, minorities). That doesnt sound like it has anything to do with your criticisms of the tone, relationships with the crew, etc.

so the problem seems to be that we have different ideas of what an SJW is, which seems to be a recurring problem in this thread for me.

To me SJW's are people that prioritize their emotional well being above other issues, often at the expense of truth and freedom. People that care about what other people say more than about what they actually think, people that don't care that all the waste goes into the same container so long as in their office it is sorted out as recycle, people that would rather smile and avoid conflict than engage in said conflict to fix current problems and achieve improvement, and people that do not realize that reality is such that it is not possible for everyone to get along in every situation and that not in every situation compromise can be had.

Edit: I would like to add that it's possible for SJW's to be aggressive, and that happens when things don't go their way while they are being passive, also they get angry due to the fact that they HAVE to do something, and things don't just go their way on their own. But it happen in a particular way, for example if an SJW disagrees with someone on a particular issue they will spend their time trying to silence the person that they disagree with instead of having a debate about the issue. 

Not true. I personally find many SJW movements to on the contrary be regressive.

Also I should mention that I am as far from a conservative as it goes.

Regardless of how you politically identify or how you intend to use the term, it is a politically loaded term primarily used as an insult by social conservatives and especially in very rightwing (and very white) spaces like Breitbart, 4chan and 8chan, Gamer Gate twitter threads, etc. So I wouldn't use that term pejoratively if you don't want to be associated with those spaces and the political views of the people who congregate there, i.e., the political places where it is used most frequently to deride.

You may notice that many of the commenters here who use it so pejoratively are complaining about how ugly default Sara is and how that is a conspiracy by BW SJW devs against male players, how BW forced gayness and trangenderism/trans acceptance down their throats, etc. Another anti-SJW dude who responded to pessimistpossum's comment about unarmed black people being killed by police with a link about the high rate at which US "blacks" commit crimes. If you use the term as they do, I associate you with that crowd, because that's the crowd with which it is associated. (If you don't think complaining about having to meet a fake transgender person in a video game is socially conservative, I don't understand your definition -- why else would someone complain about this?)

Of course other people use it who don't identify that way (like you, I guess, and I'm guessing a few others here), but that's the political realm in which it was coined, the people who use it most, and that's what people with a liberal or left view of social justice, and whose who believe in the thoughtful inclusion of marginalized groups in social spaces -- who care enough to fight for it, anyway -- will think of you if you use it, regardless of your intent. That's language for you...

You already know how I feel about your critique of the game: I don't think those qualities you see in it have anything to do with what you call SJWism, but with the general talent level of the writers.

I don't really know what it means.  I found this source to say this about SJW:

"social justice warrior

NOUN



informal, derogatory

A person who expresses or promotes socially progressive views.

‘these social justice warriors want to apply their politically correct standards and rules to others' speech’"

It's from Oxford Dictionaries online.  Take it for what it's worth.  Therefore, anyone who is in opposition to socially progressive views would by nature be socially regressive.  However, I still think most people don't know the difference between "socially progressive" and just not being a dick.  I'd say more people are generally indifferent than actually progressive.  But, then, it begs the question of what "progressive" means. 

Some people on Quora have ideas about what that means.   The jist of it seems to be "not traditionalist" and "live and let live".  What defines progressive also changes over time since we do have progress, people get accustomed to it, and then changes in that area become difficult for some.  Tbh, go back far enough, and progressive means: allowing women to vote, interracial marriage is legal, working on Sundays, technology/medicine over "pray yourself to health".  I think a lot of these traditionalists really have no clue what they'd be in for if we dialed things back far enough.  And if we go far enough to things like "love they neighbor as thyself", they're really fucked.

(1) Why are you so attached to the term, which, again, is politically loaded and associated with far rightwing spaces? Why not just say what you think about the game without bemoaning those SJWs, if you don't want to be associated with those (frankly, abusive) people who use it the most? For example, why not just say that you worry that it seems the MEA devs played it too safe, and you found the result bland? It's not as if some left-leaning people wouldn't agree with you. I know people in all notches on the neoliberal-left spectrum, some of whom vehemently disagree or openly deride one another about these matters. There are arguments both within and outside marginalized groups about what constitutes cultural appropriation or issues of representation, for example. I know a Latina anarcho-communist who mocks other POC for focusing so much on cultural media representation and appropriation issues when she believes that revolutionary class liberation + fighting the police state should be the priority, have seen plenty white liberals mocked for casual racism on social media to the point that they blocked POC or vice versa, know some liberals who believe that Richard Spencer should be hosted at unis for free speech reasons and some leftists who believe he shouldn't because it's violence against marginalized students and essentially promoting a neo-Nazi. I have also seen many bemoan "safe spaces" when it comes to stuff like trigger warnings. In this latter case, the liberals actually agree with those on the right who see it as an attack on free speech! And everyone obviously grows to hate each other. Nonetheless, even when people on the left accuse others of being too reactionary or emotional or what have you, which does happen, especially when someone is "called out," no one actually calls each other a SJW or complains about "those SJWs" (even if that's kinda what they're implying) because it is already established as a decidedly rightwing pejorative used predominantly by 4channers and GamerGaters. This is why when you use it this way while saying you are "the farthest thing from a conservative" I am a bit skeptical. Regardless, while I don't agree with you, I am more likely to hear and respect your argument if you don't frame it as "me versus SJWs" from the start because it's loaded.

(2) There are POC conservatives, both economically and socially, yes, of course I understand that. I do have some thoughts about this and whiteness, as well as class, but this isn't really the place for that discussion. However, by pointing out that these online spaces are predominantly white spaces, I don't mean that only white people are conservatives (though I do think it is fair to say that they are more the exception than the rule, at least when it comes to US voting...). That's not really who I'm talking about here -- because, while there are POC conservatives, the vast majority of those spending time in "SJW-hating" sections of the internet, such as the /pol section of 4chan or 8chan, are white people, and that is for very obvious reasons if you've ever lurked in those places. And the vast majority of GamerGaters, buoyed by these virtual spaces of likeminded folks, mobbing up against "SJWs" and "Feminazis" who are ruining everything for them by simply asking to be respectfully included and represented, are not POC, and they often seem really upset when anyone involved in a game or movie even mildly critiques whiteness or white people in any way. I wonder why. Does it help if instead of "far right" I say "alt right" here? Surely you don't believe that race isn't factoring into any of this... Racial representation in media is mocked by this particular group of people just as much as that of LGBTQ and women when it is pushed "too far," or when POC complain about the lack of it in a game or elsewhere. And, maybe you're not from the US, but if you are and don't see that siding with the police or George Zimmerman or whoever kills any black person, no matter the age or lack of weapon, is a decidedly social conservative stance here...that pointing out "black crime" as a response is a socially conservative move -- how are we living in such different realities? Even Hillary Clinton, who doesn't give a flying shit about black people, championed that cause to win over progressive voters because she saw that it was becoming such an important issue for leftwing voters across the board -- even those who believe an ice cream social between cops and the communities they serve is going to solve everything.

Anyway, I've spent way too much time here today and this is getting off topic now. Basically, someone asked for a definition and that's how I see it: a rightwing epithet for (those who identify as) social progressives. I think you originally thought I was using "progressive" broadly, but I am talking about those who call themselves political progressives or fit that descriptor vs. those who call themselves conservatives or fit that descriptor, regardless of whether you personally consider some aspects of both factions regressive. I am saying that "SJW" is political/loaded language that cannot be extracted from that context, though it can be tempered if, before using it, a person like the OP at least offers a concession (here, that some people seem hellbent on seeing anything, even the simple inclusion of a trans person, as "SJW" ruining everything). The OP of this thread says that some people see any attempt at any kind of inclusion of anyone else but white men in practically anything is "SJW," and I'm saying that there is no other way to see that term at this point because it has already been coined and claimed by that certain (notorious) subset of rightwingers...So maybe just avoid using it as some kind of slur unless you want to ensure that half your audience distrusts you from the start. HTH. I really need to get out of this thread now but I can respond more tomorrow if you want to keep talking about this.

Actually agree.  Got called a white supremacist for disagreeing about adding black and brown stripes to the gay pride flag.  So while I stated some ideas above, I think what's actually SJW is the extreme left rather than people who are progressive.

I'm sorry, you're just really smart and I'm really stupid.
I'm an idiot suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect and have spent most of my time in useless studies that will never make me normal income.
In fact I'm too stupid to respond to you with words so here's a couple pictures.