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Post by anacronian on Jun 25, 2017 3:39:29 GMT
Honestly, the writing in this game is so bad it can only be labeled Tumblr fanfic propaganda. Is Tumblr really known for fanfic? And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer [it] with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
And the smoke of the incense, [which came] with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast [it] into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.www.tumblr.com/search/fanfiction%20mass%20effect
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Post by Cyberfrog on Jun 25, 2017 4:33:34 GMT
I'd totally bang Dorian for an achievement. Never romanced him, but hit on him with both male and female characters. Dorian is great.
,,,
The 'regressive left' is a big concern, or should be, to anyone paying attention. But the 'regressive left' didn't write the game. It was written by presumably well-meaning, more than likely progressive-leaning folks who made some missteps here and there. Some people will be more unhappy than others with the product we got, and that is completely fine. But I don't see how a reasonable person can conclude that MEA is propaganda.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 25, 2017 4:42:28 GMT
I'd totally bang Dorian for an achievement. Never romanced him, but hit on him with both male and female characters. Dorian is great. ,,, The 'regressive left' is a big concern, or should be, to anyone paying attention. But the 'regressive left' didn't write the game. It was written by presumably well-meaning, more than likely progressive-leaning folks who made some missteps here and there. Some people will be more unhappy than others with the product we got, and that is completely fine. But I don't see how a reasonable person can conclude that MEA is propaganda. It's the internet, it's best described as a madhouse.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Jun 25, 2017 4:49:48 GMT
I remember a youtuber saying female main characters are a communist conspricy. Blyat!, he knows to much!. Стреляйте его быстро, вы знаете, тоже!.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Jun 25, 2017 4:58:38 GMT
The prime difference to an SJW and a non SJW character is if they are defined by their...for lack of a better term...minority trait. Take dorian for instance. We do not find out his sexuality until.much later. Sure its important to his arc. But not the most important. Funnily enough i had a conversation once where they were complaining about bioware sjw and dorian and when i pointed out liara was bi they were like...'such things do not exists' I wonder if there is even such a thing as a straight asari. there's a quick answear to that: If a said species doesnt have a male or female categories, a male or female of other species wouldn't be subject to the term of "homosexual" or whatever if engaged in a relationship with a member of said species. TL:TR whelp
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 25, 2017 4:59:00 GMT
I understand why they did it I just don't agree with it. If someone aren't willing to play a none gay male Ryder for a stupid trophy that is their problem, it's a stupid trophy and if you trying to get a trophy in a video game you sometimes have to go out of your way to get said trophy. Someone in that very thread used DAO as an example in that game if you wanted every trophy you had to play as a character who probably isn't what you want them to be. Another example is I hate playing evil characters but in order to get all the trophies in Infamous Second Son I had to play as a bad guy. Nope. I disagree. If you create an achievement in a video game it should be attainable by everyone, whether you think it's "stupid" or not. Particularly a romance trophy. If it had been the other way around every straight motherfucker from here to Timbuktu would've set up such a collective whinge to burn the heavens. Hell, I would've been one of them. So try that; put yourself in the gay community's shoes and tell me you wouldn't have bitched a bit. Truth is, it wouldn't have mattered who they made the other romanceable character for that achievement. There was going to be a subset that was going to bitch about it regardless, even if it didn't actually affect their game or not. In addition, there's a separate issue. A lot of fans consider squadmate romances to be superior to non-squadmate romances, presumably because you get so many more interactions, though of course most of them aren't romance-specific.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 25, 2017 5:02:33 GMT
I'd totally bang Dorian for an achievement. Never romanced him, but hit on him with both male and female characters. Dorian is great. ,,, The 'regressive left' is a big concern, or should be, to anyone paying attention. But the 'regressive left' didn't write the game. It was written by presumably well-meaning, more than likely progressive-leaning folks who made some missteps here and there. Some people will be more unhappy than others with the product we got, and that is completely fine. But I don't see how a reasonable person can conclude that MEA is propaganda. Agreed. Never heard the term "regressive left" but I looked it up. Describes a bunch of people I've encountered. I see no signs of that sort of thing in regard to the making of BioWare games. Even Hainly Abrams - sure, that whole scenario could have been done better, but I'm not quite sure how without having her a fully fleshed out character - something not often true of NPCs. She did what every NPC you encounter does, which is unload a bunch of generally useless information to give you a little information about them. BioWare was doing their best here. Didn't come of well but they were clearly well-meaning.
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Post by Furisco on Jun 25, 2017 5:13:56 GMT
You shouldn't care that much about the whole SJW debate. There's a bunch of idiots from both sides and you can even see some of them on this thread.
But i should say that watching people being offended on twitter by the diversity on Bioware games or calling Bioware a bunch of bigots because one character wasn't bisexual was pretty funny.
Try to get away from those.
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Post by gplayer on Jun 25, 2017 6:32:08 GMT
I hate the term SJW and to me its just being a human being. Most people that exhibit no empathy suddenly change their tune when something happens to them. Its the height of hypocrisy. Just to put things in context I am non-American but if I did live there I would be a visible minority. I support people's right to use the bathroom they identify with, but am against gender neutral bathrooms (when I am taking a dump I don't need to worry that that woman I had been chatting up might pop in and listen)
That being said, there are a number of issues in the game that I did feel were deliberate: 1. Making it difficult to create an attractive female avatar: I think the default Sara was deliberate but that the character creation tool was just incomplete or rushed. I do enjoy playing with attractive female characters but what people shared on nexusmods and masseffectarchives was more than adequate
2. Offering more bi-male romances than bi-fem romances: I feel this was deliberate but I don't see how its an SJW agenda
3. Asari are now gender neutral instead of an all female race: This was very deliberate and a retcon from the OT. Its pretty clear its a commentary on the current political culture in the US. But you had to hang out in the cultural center to hear about that, so they did not really force that narrative on people. I never noticed it until the 3rd playthrough.
4.AI has no weapons, no military force to speak of: This was deliberate, as was the game's avoidance of colonial themes. The Roekar storyline had so much unused potential in that regard. Remember how Evfra repeatedly avoids engaging the Roekar 'unless he really has to' as Jaal put it? I wish I could say that this was just an incomplete story but honestly it did feel like they were going out of their way to avoid colonial themes.
5.Making Jaal bi: This was deliberate, but clearly fan pandering as opposed to SJW. One of the things I hate about the ME team in Bioware is that they pander to fans on trivial issues (Tali as a romance option, Tali as an ME3 squaddie...etc) but not on issues that matter (you know that one thing in the OT they got totally wrong and accused us of being spoiled brats). What offended me is that instead of writing in the patch notes that this was a fan request they made it seem like Jaal was always supposed to be like this.
6. Just an overwhelming amount of platitudes and what I can best describe as 'naive bs': I don't know if this is poor writing but I suspect its deliberate. I don't know how to describe it except that it felt it belonged in an HRC speech: "We're better together" or something like that in every policy discussion with the Angara. Ryder asks SAM on Eos who is the point of contact for all the issues and instead of saying Bradley or Abrams he says "You're people Ryder...<insert platitude about how they have settled in and are overcoming obstacles>". These are so numerous its hard to remember a specific quote that stands out.
7. Instead of being an actual pathfinder you arrive 14 months after the Nexus: Deliberate laziness so that instead of having to write a real plot about exploration and first contact you arrive to a cluster that is "already populated with mass effect tropes" (written in another thread).
PS> No offence to Tali-mancers but while she is legal I think she way way too young for Shep - She was a teen in the events of ME1.. I always thought of her as a younger sis and its hard for me not cringe at the romance scenes
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The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by kino on Jun 25, 2017 6:36:52 GMT
Nope. I disagree. If you create an achievement in a video game it should be attainable by everyone, whether you think it's "stupid" or not. Particularly a romance trophy. If it had been the other way around every straight motherfucker from here to Timbuktu would've set up such a collective whinge to burn the heavens. Hell, I would've been one of them. So try that; put yourself in the gay community's shoes and tell me you wouldn't have bitched a bit. Truth is, it wouldn't have mattered who they made the other romanceable character for that achievement. There was going to be a subset that was going to bitch about it regardless, even if it didn't actually affect their game or not. In addition, there's a separate issue. A lot of fans consider squadmate romances to be superior to non-squadmate romances, presumably because you get so many more interactions, though of course most of them aren't romance-specific. That's...okay, that's true, I'll admit that. A lot of people do think that, and maybe rightly so, though I don't get it. My MEA prefered romance is Avela. I love the dialog in their conversations. Not a shipmate but still my favorite romance.
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Post by FemShepard'sPie on Jun 25, 2017 7:02:33 GMT
I wouldn't go as far as to say that MEA is "sjw propaganda", but Bioware did put in some things that didn't have any other purpose other than to pander to some specific parts of fandom. Like the Asari pronoun thing that came out of nowhere, Angara apparently seeing gender with fluidity or whatever, a trans character who felt the need to inform you of her being trans at the first opportunity (I know they've changed it a bit, but that's how it was shipped anyway). And the Jaal thing of course. I don't hate the game, but those devs are hopeless. I find it funny and sad how they wanted to show how ~progressive~ they are, but, paradoxically, failed to notice that the gay players had less romance options than others. Cool, cool. Then let me explain why making Jaal romanceable by both characters was necessary; you couldn't get the achievement for romancing three characters if your male Ryder was gay, not unless you romanced a female. That was the biggest reason I saw in the romance forum. Maybe it was less about "wasting resources" and righting an oversight in the original game? Because that's what it was. When I tried a couple of times to point this out it was as if people who were against making Jaal romanceable either didn't want to hear it or couldn't understand it. Shit, I'm not even a gay man and I understood where those who were wanting it were coming from. Not a good enough reason to change a character post-release, especially in a patch, imo. Why not remove the achievement or reduce the required romance number to two? Wouldn't have had to waste the resources that way, at least not as much. Or why not add an entirely new romance option or make another character romanceable, someone who wasn't straight at the release? And I don't remember the devs stating this as the reason they did it, IIRC the patch notes just said that they came to the conclusion that it "made sense" for him. To this day I still wonder why they didn't do this in an earlier patch. But seeing the amount of hassle the Twitter page kept getting for months on end, they probably did the retcon to get some peace and quiet from the spammers. Probably explains why they aren't answering anyone about DLC or anything else.
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Post by warrior on Jun 25, 2017 7:41:38 GMT
It's not about some bright example that stands out, it's just the impression I got after completing the game. It's how the game feels, its atmosphere, and I can tell that the game was made by SJW's. It's how all the characters including Ryder talk, how they think, how they act, their mentality, in every scene from the beginning of the game till the end. I'm really curious to hear more about this, and for some examples, because I have no idea what you mean. I found MEA writing weak but don't see how it relates to SJW--explain?
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Post by warrior on Jun 25, 2017 8:04:52 GMT
I'd totally bang Dorian for an achievement. Never romanced him, but hit on him with both male and female characters. Dorian is great. ,,, The 'regressive left' is a big concern, or should be, to anyone paying attention. But the 'regressive left' didn't write the game. It was written by presumably well-meaning, more than likely progressive-leaning folks who made some missteps here and there. Some people will be more unhappy than others with the product we got, and that is completely fine. But I don't see how a reasonable person can conclude that MEA is propaganda. Having just looked this up, too, I have no idea what making Jaal bi or w/e has to do with pandering to radical Islamists. ???? I don't quite agree that this is some "big concern" but wtf does MEA have to do with this concept.
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Post by vonuber on Jun 25, 2017 8:09:43 GMT
PS> No offence to Tali-mancers but while she is legal I think she way way too young for Shep - She was a teen in the events of ME1.. I always thought of her as a younger sis and its hard for me not cringe at the romance scenes Meh, if it's good enough for Michael Bay..
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 25, 2017 8:56:25 GMT
PS> No offence to Tali-mancers but while she is legal I think she way way too young for Shep - She was a teen in the events of ME1.. I always thought of her as a younger sis and its hard for me not cringe at the romance scenes The thing I don't like about Tali's romance is that it basically undermines the severity of the quarians' situation. Acclimating to any new world, according to Tali, would take many years, yet in just a few months she can have physical relations with a human and be OK.
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Post by Pearl on Jun 25, 2017 9:09:45 GMT
I'd totally bang Dorian for an achievement. Never romanced him, but hit on him with both male and female characters. Dorian is great. ,,, The 'regressive left' is a big concern, or should be, to anyone paying attention. But the 'regressive left' didn't write the game. It was written by presumably well-meaning, more than likely progressive-leaning folks who made some missteps here and there. Some people will be more unhappy than others with the product we got, and that is completely fine. But I don't see how a reasonable person can conclude that MEA is propaganda. Having just looked this up, too, I have no idea what making Jaal bi or w/e has to do with pandering to radical Islamists. ???? I don't quite agree that this is some "big concern" but wtf does MEA have to do with this concept. Read that again. He said that it was not involved with Andromeda, while also providing his personal views on the subject.
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Post by warrior on Jun 25, 2017 9:12:59 GMT
Having just looked this up, too, I have no idea what making Jaal bi or w/e has to do with pandering to radical Islamists. ???? I don't quite agree that this is some "big concern" but wtf does MEA have to do with this concept. Read that again. He said that it was not involved with Andromeda, while also providing his personal views on the subject. I'm agreeing with him by sharing his confusion over the blaming of MEA failures on some "regressive left" boogeyman, if that isn't clear.
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Post by vonuber on Jun 25, 2017 9:13:44 GMT
I'd totally bang Dorian for an achievement. Never romanced him, but hit on him with both male and female characters. Dorian is great. My femquis positively swooned when she met him, never was I so gutted when he turned out to be gay.
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Post by Pearl on Jun 25, 2017 9:14:01 GMT
Read that again. He said that it was not involved with Andromeda, while also providing his personal views on the subject. I'm agreeing with him by sharing his confusion over the blaming of MEA failures on some "regressive left" boogeyman, if that isn't clear. Ah, gotcha. My mistake, and apologies.
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Post by tacsear on Jun 25, 2017 9:16:56 GMT
They changed Jaal's romantic interests just to please a group of fanbase and tweaked Hainly Abrams 3 times now, that's why
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I don't like MP!
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Post by warrior on Jun 25, 2017 9:17:47 GMT
I'm agreeing with him by sharing his confusion over the blaming of MEA failures on some "regressive left" boogeyman, if that isn't clear. Ah, gotcha. My mistake, and apologies. No worries, it's the internet, not always easy to read tone (etc)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 25, 2017 10:07:59 GMT
PS> No offence to Tali-mancers but while she is legal I think she way way too young for Shep - She was a teen in the events of ME1.. I always thought of her as a younger sis and its hard for me not cringe at the romance scenes The thing I don't like about Tali's romance is that it basically undermines the severity of the quarians' situation. Acclimating to any new world, according to Tali, would take many years, yet in just a few months she can have physical relations with a human and be OK. Yeah, Tali would have been a perfect opportunity for an asexual relationship because of that issue. But apparently the power of boners is stronger.
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 25, 2017 10:14:36 GMT
I've seen the term thrown around so much that I've become convinced that "SJWs" don't actually exist and are just the latest boogeyman a certain breed of trogs throw out either so they can look like the victimized party when they see women and minorities being treated in a positive manner, as seen with both Inquisition and Andromeda, or just so they can shut down any criticism directed towards them. I've never seen the term used in the "correct" manner.
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Post by LilTIM on Jun 25, 2017 11:14:17 GMT
There are more than enough evidence to show how Bioware is mediatized and pushing certain agendas in their games. If you happen to consider these agendas "social justice", then good for you. It used to be different opinions were viewed as good thing for democracy, but these days the new left just goes and bully into silence anyone who dares question them.I'll leave the mockery to others, and just point out that you've missed how the whole freedom-of-speech thing works. Everybody gets to express their ideas, sure, but that doesn't mean that the ideas automatically are respected. Some ideas are stupid. Some ideas are evil. Some are both. If people don't like your ideas, maybe it's because they're bad ideas. Feel free to post mockery gifs, the mods here love them, and you won't need to elaborate any argument! Making your interlocutor look bad using bright coloured pictures, a feat of this age. Makes you feel good, right? For someone criticising free speech you seem to know little about it. Ideas have no value by themselves, it's society who decides which are acceptable or not. The new left is pushing some very irresponsible agendas, while demonizing anyones who dares disagree - you even did it yourself, your argument is: "if you disagree with me, you're a bad person". A moralist argument, same as fundamentalist christians use. Just see this thread, the OP premise was everyone disagreeing with him was "insert insult", then claimed he wanted these "derps" to come here to argue with the whole BSN. I posted questioning the full blown acceptance of what BW is pushing, showing how outside of a particular clique, many people disapprove. The people here reacted like they were in kindergarten. I didn't even elaborate about which parts of BW agenda i disagree, but for the new left, disagreeing is enough to make you a bad person - or maybe sinful, depending who is doing the sermon.
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Croatsky
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
2,288
December 2016
croatsky
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
CroGamer002
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Post by Croatsky on Jun 25, 2017 12:14:39 GMT
It's nothing but dogwhistle.
Anyone pushing any progressive ideas in fictions is branded as SJW propagandist by the reactionary right wing online.
This is just par for the course of the modern culture war we're seeing in Western countries.
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