eternalgoddess
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Post by eternalgoddess on Jun 25, 2017 14:02:24 GMT
The prime difference to an SJW and a non SJW character is if they are defined by their...for lack of a better term...minority trait. Take dorian for instance. We do not find out his sexuality until.much later. Sure its important to his arc. But not the most important. Funnily enough i had a conversation once where they were complaining about bioware sjw and dorian and when i pointed out liara was bi they were like...'such things do not exists' I wonder if there is even such a thing as a straight asari. If you mean "straight" as they only like Women maybe.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jun 25, 2017 14:15:46 GMT
The fact we're having this discussion is something. I disagree with BioWare being SJW and whatnot, but some practices are cringe-worthy and total pandering, and that seems to be their focus whenever they get some bad shit done. And no, people don't hate gay or whatsoever people. It's just BioWare making some stuff about being this and that, changing lore because political agenda, changing sexualities, writing common LBGT tropes, the "Hey, I am___!" and all other BS they can make up. Still, they're progressive, and that's a good thing. You don't see this much effort elsewhere in the game industry.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 25, 2017 14:57:55 GMT
I wonder if there is even such a thing as a straight asari. If you mean "straight" as they only like Women maybe. Well, when it comes to asari, I'd say it would basically be a matter of certain members of the species refusing to get with any aliens. I can't imagine that in the entire population, there shouldn't be at least some of them that defy the common social convention and just do not find any attraction whatsoever to members of other species and especially aren't into their respective males.
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Post by setokaiba on Jun 25, 2017 15:01:41 GMT
I like Cassandra but I'll take Morriagan or Leliana over her I like Morrigan, but her approval is pretty whacked since she generally disapproves of anything generous that isn't directed at her. Of course, you can easily bribe your way to max affection so whatever. I like Leliana, but she can be rather treacle-y. Izzy's clearly better than both. You can romance Morigan really early in the game as long as you don't use her as sqaud member
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 25, 2017 15:08:06 GMT
I like Morrigan, but her approval is pretty whacked since she generally disapproves of anything generous that isn't directed at her. Of course, you can easily bribe your way to max affection so whatever. I like Leliana, but she can be rather treacle-y. Izzy's clearly better than both. You can romance Morigan really early in the game as long as you don't use her as sqaud member True, but to tell you the truth, I don't really care for Morrigan's romance in general. I like the companion and she keeps things interesting, but as an actual love interest I prefer not to bother. Of course, my "canon" Warden is female so I guess it's irrelevant. Alistair gets to tap some old god file transfer goodness instead.
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Post by setokaiba on Jun 25, 2017 15:11:06 GMT
You can romance Morigan really early in the game as long as you don't use her as sqaud member True, but to tell you the truth, I don't really care for Morrigan's romance in general. I like the companion and she keeps things interesting, but as an actual love interest I prefer not to bother. Of course, my "canon" Warden is female so I guess it's irrelevant. Alistair gets to tap some old god file transfer goodness instead. I prefer to live at the end that's why I always go with her to be honest lol
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 25, 2017 15:12:14 GMT
True, but to tell you the truth, I don't really care for Morrigan's romance in general. I like the companion and she keeps things interesting, but as an actual love interest I prefer not to bother. Of course, my "canon" Warden is female so I guess it's irrelevant. Alistair gets to tap some old god file transfer goodness instead. I prefer to live at the end that's why I always go with her to be honest lol Oh yeah everyone lives in my playthrough, but Alistair gets pimped out in order for that to happen.
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Post by Furisco on Jun 25, 2017 15:19:19 GMT
I've seen the term thrown around so much that I've become convinced that "SJWs" don't actually exist and are just the latest boogeyman a certain breed of trogs throw out either so they can look like the victimized party when they see women and minorities being treated in a positive manner, as seen with both Inquisition and Andromeda, or just so they can shut down any criticism directed towards them. I've never seen the term used in the "correct" manner. Oh they do and they're pretty scary. Browse through Neogaf and you'll see a bunch of them. But the problem is that some people use the "SJW" term for everyone. Sometimes just for the fact that you're not racist someone calls you a SJW.
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Astromage
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Astromage on Jun 25, 2017 15:38:26 GMT
The fact we're having this discussion is something. I disagree with BioWare being SJW and whatnot, but some practices are cringe-worthy and total pandering, and that seems to be their focus whenever they get some bad shit done. And no, people don't hate gay or whatsoever people. It's just BioWare making some stuff about being this and that, changing lore because political agenda, changing sexualities, writing common LBGT tropes, the "Hey, I am___!" and all other BS they can make up. Still, they're progressive, and that's a good thing. You don't see this much effort elsewhere in the game industry. ^This I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by ME:A in that regard. Characters lack any form of subtlety in their introduction and interaction with each other. They almost feel like caricatures, completely detached from any believable social reality. And as much as I loved Inquisition, I couldn't help but roll my eyes when Iron Bull was explaining the way the Qun sees people like Krem. I kept thinking back to DA: Origins, where Sten was flabbergasted that my female Warden was *gasp* fighting! In armor! With a sword in her hand! He didn't treat her like a man (as Bull described the Qun would actually do) but rather like an oddity, a foolish violation of the natural order. It really felt like Bioware went out of their way to retcon that aspect of the Qun's rigid mentality just so Bull wouldn't have to deal with reconciling his own bias and views with the person Krem is. Nope! Turns out the Qun is just so gosh darn progressive with gender roles y'all!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2017 15:45:26 GMT
The fact we're having this discussion is something. I disagree with BioWare being SJW and whatnot, but some practices are cringe-worthy and total pandering, and that seems to be their focus whenever they get some bad shit done. And no, people don't hate gay or whatsoever people. It's just BioWare making some stuff about being this and that, changing lore because political agenda, changing sexualities, writing common LBGT tropes, the "Hey, I am___!" and all other BS they can make up. Still, they're progressive, and that's a good thing. You don't see this much effort elsewhere in the game industry. ^This I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by ME:A in that regard. Characters lack any form of subtlety in their introduction and interaction with each other. They almost feel like caricatures, completely detached from any believable social reality. And as much as I loved Inquisition, I couldn't help but roll my eyes when Iron Bull was explaining the way the Qun sees people like Krem. I kept thinking back to DA: Origins, where Sten was flabbergasted that my female Warden was *gasp* fighting! In armor! With a sword in her hand! He didn't treat her like a man (as Bull described the Qun would actually do) but rather like an oddity, a foolish violation of the natural order. It really felt like Bioware went out of their way to retcon that aspect of the Qun's rigid mentality just so Bull wouldn't have to deal with reconciling his own bias and views with the person Krem is. Nope! Turns out the Qun is just so gosh darn progressive with gender roles y'all!
Well the case could be made that Iron Bull has lived so long outside of Qunlat that his views has been warped a bit. I mean he is almost a Tal Vashoth at the point we meet him in Inquisition, our decision might even make him one. It could just be him convincing himself its how it is so he can deal with living the way he does outside of the Qun. Also his name Hissrad, means liar, he could be lying. Sten is a warrior after all, he is blunt and tells it like it is. Iron Bull is a trained spy and liar. Still they probably did a retcon, and not for the better and it is unfortunate. Great first post by the way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2017 15:46:21 GMT
That's one reason why I didn't buy MEA.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jun 25, 2017 15:56:09 GMT
The fact we're having this discussion is something. I disagree with BioWare being SJW and whatnot, but some practices are cringe-worthy and total pandering, and that seems to be their focus whenever they get some bad shit done. And no, people don't hate gay or whatsoever people. It's just BioWare making some stuff about being this and that, changing lore because political agenda, changing sexualities, writing common LBGT tropes, the "Hey, I am___!" and all other BS they can make up. Still, they're progressive, and that's a good thing. You don't see this much effort elsewhere in the game industry. ^This I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by ME:A in that regard. Characters lack any form of subtlety in their introduction and interaction with each other. They almost feel like caricatures, completely detached from any believable social reality. And as much as I loved Inquisition, I couldn't help but roll my eyes when Iron Bull was explaining the way the Qun sees people like Krem. I kept thinking back to DA: Origins, where Sten was flabbergasted that my female Warden was *gasp* fighting! In armor! With a sword in her hand! He didn't treat her like a man (as Bull described the Qun would actually do) but rather like an oddity, a foolish violation of the natural order. It really felt like Bioware went out of their way to retcon that aspect of the Qun's rigid mentality just so Bull wouldn't have to deal with reconciling his own bias and views with the person Krem is. Nope! Turns out the Qun is just so gosh darn progressive with gender roles y'all!
Ah, the good old times of DAO, a dark and gritty Dragon Age game that wasn't afraid of anything while being it's own thing. Yup, good times. Agreed.
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Post by Furisco on Jun 25, 2017 16:03:27 GMT
^This I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by ME:A in that regard. Characters lack any form of subtlety in their introduction and interaction with each other. They almost feel like caricatures, completely detached from any believable social reality. And as much as I loved Inquisition, I couldn't help but roll my eyes when Iron Bull was explaining the way the Qun sees people like Krem. I kept thinking back to DA: Origins, where Sten was flabbergasted that my female Warden was *gasp* fighting! In armor! With a sword in her hand! He didn't treat her like a man (as Bull described the Qun would actually do) but rather like an oddity, a foolish violation of the natural order. It really felt like Bioware went out of their way to retcon that aspect of the Qun's rigid mentality just so Bull wouldn't have to deal with reconciling his own bias and views with the person Krem is. Nope! Turns out the Qun is just so gosh darn progressive with gender roles y'all!
Ah, the good old times of DAO, a dark and gritty Dragon Age game that wasn't afraid of anything while being it's own thing. Yup, good times. Agreed. Twitter is too strong nowdays.
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GruntKitterhand
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Ha! They're Dead!
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Post by GruntKitterhand on Jun 25, 2017 16:23:13 GMT
I wouldn't go as far as to say that MEA is "sjw propaganda", but Bioware did put in some things that didn't have any other purpose other than to pander to some specific parts of fandom. Like the Asari pronoun thing that came out of nowhere, Angara apparently seeing gender with fluidity or whatever, a trans character who felt the need to inform you of her being trans at the first opportunity (I know they've changed it a bit, but that's how it was shipped anyway). And the Jaal thing of course. I don't hate the game, but those devs are hopeless. I find it funny and sad how they wanted to show how ~progressive~ they are, but, paradoxically, failed to notice that the gay players had less romance options than others. Not a good enough reason to change a character post-release, especially in a patch, imo. Why not remove the achievement or reduce the required romance number to two? Wouldn't have had to waste the resources that way, at least not as much. Or why not add an entirely new romance option or make another character romanceable, someone who wasn't straight at the release? And I don't remember the devs stating this as the reason they did it, IIRC the patch notes just said that they came to the conclusion that it "made sense" for him. To this day I still wonder why they didn't do this in an earlier patch. But seeing the amount of hassle the Twitter page kept getting for months on end, they probably did the retcon to get some peace and quiet from the spammers. Probably explains why they aren't answering anyone about DLC or anything else. My reaction to the Jaal thing was the same as the two of you, and in general I really do see little but pandering to vocal minorities. Reducing the achievement requirement to two would not only have been the logical thing to do, saving presumably thousands of $$$s over their chosen option to re-write the character, but would have snuffed out much of the whingeing. I know the old adage that no publicity is bad publicity, but I really don't think Bioware can take any comfort from that at this stage. And, at the risk of inflaming some of the younger players' passions, I'll say it would also have helped the heterosexual players among us who will have to forego the romance medal as they cannot bring themselves to even look at Cora, nevermind romance her. The sound of her voice makes me nauseous, her hair is beyond troubling to a man of my age who had to live through A Flock of Seagulls and ABC first time around, and her Asari-obsession is frankly unbecoming for the (rumoured) daughter of a human-supremacist. I indulged my closet inner-lesbian and romanced Peebee as Sara, fully intending to choose Suvi as a partner for Scott, and then I was already struggling to imagine who would be my third, with a minor character Asari-clone the most likely target. But then through all this fuss I learned that Suvi is exclusively gay, while Jaal wasn't allowed to be exclusively straight, and realized that I really don't care enough about any aspect of this game to bother playing it through twice anyway - at least not before there's an 'all characters bi' patch. I don't know if the reason for the ugly women is politically motivated or simply incompetence. I remember seeing the model on whom Sara is based and thinking I might have to redefine my own understanding of incompetence if that truly is the excuse. And I don't buy the argument that female characters are sooo much harder to 'get right', having played a little bit of DOA. I will never forget the first time I loaded the CC, as I recoiled in horror and disbelief, soon followed by gut-busting laughter as I shared the experience with friends - both male and female. I wasn't expecting (or wanting) DOA levels of sexiness, but would have settled for one or two of them resembling actual humans. This is a game. I make no apology for wanting my central female character to be pleasing to my eye. It's an RPG fantasy - no real humans can be hurt by what I might like to fantasize about. I don't think there's something 'wrong' with people who like the default Sara, I just think they must be in a different headspace from me when gaming. I don't want to play a character whose looks reflect an awkward, geeky personality, even if she can 'look fine', sometimes. I want strong and sassy, bordering on sexy when the occasion demands. I managed to create at least 10 FemSheps who managed to meet that requirement, and expected an improvement in MEA with more powerful hardware. I didn't get it, and anyone who thinks they did is delusional, aside from any debate about political agendas versus incompetence. Given Bioware's history, it seems like only the tiniest of conspiracy theories to propose that they listened a little too hard to the people who complained about the overt sexiness of Miranda, Samara and ME3-version Ashley and decided to 'tone it down' a notch or five. My only viable alternate conspiracy theory beyond the excessive incompetence one, is that the Andromeda Initiative was actually conceived as a cunning plan by the Illusive Man to rid the Milky Way of large numbers of idiots, misfits and in-breds, possibly including his own insufferable daughter. Personally, following on from that potential narrative, I'm far more bothered by Mac Walters' apparent hard-on for AI/Human Synthesis, as manifest in the Cerberus v2.0 version of humanity hiding its illegal AI experimentation from the other migrant species. The sidequest involving the 'terrorists', which ended with the murder of their ringleader was repulsive to me, especially from a studio which had previously given us Garrus's structurally similar loyalty mission in ME2, allowing Shepard to save the intended assassination victim. No such plot development for Ryder, because "why would anybody have a problem with AI?" I would say you couldn't make this shit up, but sadly Bioware did. Finally, for anyone who has waded through my ramblings, I'd like to ask: is "No bigots here" still how one of the dialogue options is summarized when in conversation with Jaal aboard the Normandy? That did perturb me a little in the context of the game and the other choices when I encountered it, in terms of any perceived 'SJW agenda', as by that stage I was already beginning to react a little to the Andromeda Initiative's 'Enforced Kumbaya' mood.
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Post by Astromage on Jun 25, 2017 16:41:54 GMT
^This I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by ME:A in that regard. Characters lack any form of subtlety in their introduction and interaction with each other. They almost feel like caricatures, completely detached from any believable social reality. And as much as I loved Inquisition, I couldn't help but roll my eyes when Iron Bull was explaining the way the Qun sees people like Krem. I kept thinking back to DA: Origins, where Sten was flabbergasted that my female Warden was *gasp* fighting! In armor! With a sword in her hand! He didn't treat her like a man (as Bull described the Qun would actually do) but rather like an oddity, a foolish violation of the natural order. It really felt like Bioware went out of their way to retcon that aspect of the Qun's rigid mentality just so Bull wouldn't have to deal with reconciling his own bias and views with the person Krem is. Nope! Turns out the Qun is just so gosh darn progressive with gender roles y'all!
Well the case could be made that Iron Bull has lived so long outside of Qunlat that his views has been warped a bit. I mean he is almost a Tal Vashoth at the point we meet him in Inquisition, our decision might even make him one. It could just be him convincing himself its how it is so he can deal with living the way he does outside of the Qun. Also his name Hissrad, means liar, he could be lying. Sten is a warrior after all, he is blunt and tells it like it is. Iron Bull is a trained spy and liar. Still they probably did a retcon, and not for the better and it is unfortunate. Great first post by the way. That's an interesting angle. And it might've worked too but the inclusion of the Viddasala (in a leading role no less) kind of validates Bull's assessment. The Tallis we see in Dragon Age II is also an example, just on a lower rank in the Ben-Hassrath hierarchy.
Since Sten is now the Arishok and the story has shifted towards the renewed Tevinter/Qunari conflict, I'm curious if Bioware will include him in Dragon Age 4. It'd be interesting to see how (or rather if) his view on women has changed.
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Post by zaeedisking on Jun 25, 2017 17:12:40 GMT
SJW is just a phrase (acronym) ignorant people use whenever they see a non-submissive minority group or woman in a game, movie, etc. ME:A has minorities, women, transgenders, homosexuals, and actual aliens...ignorant people can't handle this and start screaming SJW. I think we can all agree if they are well written and have a reason for being included in the story then by all means. I think it's valid criticism to point out that shoehorning characters into said story to please a certain crowd is doing a disservice to everyone involved.
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Post by melbella on Jun 25, 2017 18:08:16 GMT
The sidequest involving the 'terrorists', which ended with the murder of their ringleader was repulsive to me, especially from a studio which had previously given us Garrus's structurally similar loyalty mission in ME2, allowing Shepard to save the intended assassination victim. No such plot development for Ryder, because "why would anybody have a problem with AI?" I would say you couldn't make this shit up, but sadly Bioware did.
This is not the only outcome possible. You need to not scan anything at the base and give the implant to the son. Only check her terminal once you know what to look for. Then you can talk down Knight.
Alternatively, you can not do the quest. However, considering she did try to kill SAM, which is an integral part of Ryder and likely would have resulted in his/her death as well had she succeeded, ignoring her is not really an option for me.
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Post by kino on Jun 25, 2017 18:19:50 GMT
The sidequest involving the 'terrorists', which ended with the murder of their ringleader was repulsive to me, especially from a studio which had previously given us Garrus's structurally similar loyalty mission in ME2, allowing Shepard to save the intended assassination victim. No such plot development for Ryder, because "why would anybody have a problem with AI?" I would say you couldn't make this shit up, but sadly Bioware did.
This is not the only outcome possible. You need to not scan anything at the base and give the implant to the son. Only check her terminal once you know what to look for. Then you can talk down Knight.
Alternatively, you can not do the quest. However, considering she did try to kill SAM, which is an integral part of Ryder and likely would have resulted in his/her death as well had she succeeded, ignoring her is not really an option for me.
Yeah, I saved her and, as a bonus, was able to help her son as well. I found it to be a pretty good quest.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 25, 2017 18:29:21 GMT
This is not the only outcome possible. You need to not scan anything at the base and give the implant to the son. Only check her terminal once you know what to look for. Then you can talk down Knight.
Alternatively, you can not do the quest. However, considering she did try to kill SAM, which is an integral part of Ryder and likely would have resulted in his/her death as well had she succeeded, ignoring her is not really an option for me.
Yeah, I saved her and, as a bonus, was able to help her son as well. I found it to be a pretty good quest. Yeah and as a nice touch afterwards her son is working in the tech labs on the nexus.
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 25, 2017 19:07:25 GMT
I'll leave the mockery to others, and just point out that you've missed how the whole freedom-of-speech thing works. Everybody gets to express their ideas, sure, but that doesn't mean that the ideas automatically are respected. Some ideas are stupid. Some ideas are evil. Some are both. If people don't like your ideas, maybe it's because they're bad ideas. For someone criticising free speech you seem to know little about it. Ideas have no value by themselves, it's society who decides which are acceptable or not. The new left is pushing some very irresponsible agendas, while demonizing anyones who dares disagree - you even did it yourself, your argument is: "if you disagree with me, you're a bad person". A moralist argument, same as fundamentalist christians use. A. He's not "criticising free speech", like, at all (where did you even get that?) B. "if you disagree with me you're a bad person" is not an accurate or honest paraphrase of anything he said, and C. you've just gone and proved his point here, that you don't understand how free speech works: freedom of speech does NOT include a freedom from disagreement, criticism, ridicule, mockery, or judgment. Someone telling you that your arguments are crap, your ideas dumb, or your opinions ignorant (or immoral) is by no means violating your free speech. And obviously, you don't get to quack and waddle, then complain when someone calls you a duck.
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198
FemShepard'sPie
113
Dec 22, 2016 10:28:55 GMT
December 2016
ariya
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by FemShepard'sPie on Jun 25, 2017 19:38:10 GMT
To this day I still wonder why they didn't do this in an earlier patch. But seeing the amount of hassle the Twitter page kept getting for months on end, they probably did the retcon to get some peace and quiet from the spammers. Probably explains why they aren't answering anyone about DLC or anything else. My reaction to the Jaal thing was the same as the two of you, and in general I really do see little but pandering to vocal minorities. Reducing the achievement requirement to two would not only have been the logical thing to do, saving presumably thousands of $$$s over their chosen option to re-write the character, but would have snuffed out much of the whingeing. I know the old adage that no publicity is bad publicity, but I really don't think Bioware can take any comfort from that at this stage. And, at the risk of inflaming some of the younger players' passions, I'll say it would also have helped the heterosexual players among us who will have to forego the romance medal as they cannot bring themselves to even look at Cora, nevermind romance her. The sound of her voice makes me nauseous, her hair is beyond troubling to a man of my age who had to live through A Flock of Seagulls and ABC first time around, and her Asari-obsession is frankly unbecoming for the (rumoured) daughter of a human-supremacist. I indulged my closet inner-lesbian and romanced Peebee as Sara, fully intending to choose Suvi as a partner for Scott, and then I was already struggling to imagine who would be my third, with a minor character Asari-clone the most likely target. But then through all this fuss I learned that Suvi is exclusively gay, while Jaal wasn't allowed to be exclusively straight, and realized that I really don't care enough about any aspect of this game to bother playing it through twice anyway - at least not before there's an 'all characters bi' patch. I don't know if the reason for the ugly women is politically motivated or simply incompetence. I remember seeing the model on whom Sara is based and thinking I might have to redefine my own understanding of incompetence if that truly is the excuse. And I don't buy the argument that female characters are sooo much harder to 'get right', having played a little bit of DOA. I will never forget the first time I loaded the CC, as I recoiled in horror and disbelief, soon followed by gut-busting laughter as I shared the experience with friends - both male and female. I wasn't expecting (or wanting) DOA levels of sexiness, but would have settled for one or two of them resembling actual humans. This is a game. I make no apology for wanting my central female character to be pleasing to my eye. It's an RPG fantasy - no real humans can be hurt by what I might like to fantasize about. I don't think there's something 'wrong' with people who like the default Sara, I just think they must be in a different headspace from me when gaming. I don't want to play a character whose looks reflect an awkward, geeky personality, even if she can 'look fine', sometimes. I want strong and sassy, bordering on sexy when the occasion demands. I managed to create at least 10 FemSheps who managed to meet that requirement, and expected an improvement in MEA with more powerful hardware. I didn't get it, and anyone who thinks they did is delusional, aside from any debate about political agendas versus incompetence. Given Bioware's history, it seems like only the tiniest of conspiracy theories to propose that they listened a little too hard to the people who complained about the overt sexiness of Miranda, Samara and ME3-version Ashley and decided to 'tone it down' a notch or five. My only viable alternate conspiracy theory beyond the excessive incompetence one, is that the Andromeda Initiative was actually conceived as a cunning plan by the Illusive Man to rid the Milky Way of large numbers of idiots, misfits and in-breds, possibly including his own insufferable daughter.
Personally, following on from that potential narrative, I'm far more bothered by Mac Walters' apparent hard-on for AI/Human Synthesis, as manifest in the Cerberus v2.0 version of humanity hiding its illegal AI experimentation from the other migrant species. The sidequest involving the 'terrorists', which ended with the murder of their ringleader was repulsive to me, especially from a studio which had previously given us Garrus's structurally similar loyalty mission in ME2, allowing Shepard to save the intended assassination victim. No such plot development for Ryder, because "why would anybody have a problem with AI?" I would say you couldn't make this shit up, but sadly Bioware did. Finally, for anyone who has waded through my ramblings, I'd like to ask: is "No bigots here" still how one of the dialogue options is summarized when in conversation with Jaal aboard the Normandy? That did perturb me a little in the context of the game and the other choices when I encountered it, in terms of any perceived 'SJW agenda', as by that stage I was already beginning to react a little to the Andromeda Initiative's 'Enforced Kumbaya' mood. Heh well, it has been said that Bioware tends to overreact when they get complaints and instead of focusing on fixing one thing they do an overhaul go overboard leaving many confused. I guess we're still seeing that with how they handled the "sexiness" end of things and romance achievements. BTW, I'm replaying ME2 at the moment and although I felt Miranda was a bit fan service-y, I still love Samara. She's gorgeous, elegant, and graceful even when she's taking out that Asari lol. I just love her entrance. Aside from my Shep (who I think is pretty gorge!), she would have been my main game shero. As for the Firefighter's quest, like was mentioned, you can change the outcome so that she lives (which I didn't realize myself until watching a video walkthrough) but I do agree about the implications after everything happens and how it would give Ryder some more development. I would have liked Ryder to second guess the whole SAM/AI thing that was glossed over earlier in the game. Maybe this quest would cause some distrust toward SAM and they could have some tension that they need to work through (which would allow for SAM to prove his use and need to help in the final mission, thus Ryder would be okay with him...for now). One thing that lacks in this game is the depth that is found in the previous games. I like to think if they had more time, less infighting, the original writers and producers with a clear plot/series bible, they would give Ryder more reflection and paths based on the choices made in the game. And if you choose one way or another in some of these quests, it would change Ryder's outlook for the rest of the game, thus opening up a way to play it different ways on future playthroughs. But yeah, as it is, it does seem like it was played the safe way and with the characterization and the amount of rebels and exiles and incompetent leaders, the Initiative wasn't so much of a fresh new start so much as an exit mission to get rid of some people! Lol. But we'll see. Everything regarding its continuation seems to be in limbo except Kandros's comic and I'm following that with much curiosity. (Comes out this week, too, woo hoo).
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warrior
N3
I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 717 Likes: 1,021
inherit
5264
0
Jun 26, 2017 22:00:50 GMT
1,021
warrior
I don't like MP!
717
Mar 20, 2017 22:14:03 GMT
March 2017
warrior
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by warrior on Jun 25, 2017 19:42:57 GMT
I'll leave the mockery to others, and just point out that you've missed how the whole freedom-of-speech thing works. Everybody gets to express their ideas, sure, but that doesn't mean that the ideas automatically are respected. Some ideas are stupid. Some ideas are evil. Some are both. If people don't like your ideas, maybe it's because they're bad ideas. Feel free to post mockery gifs, the mods here love them, and you won't need to elaborate any argument! Making your interlocutor look bad using bright coloured pictures, a feat of this age. Makes you feel good, right? For someone criticising free speech you seem to know little about it. Ideas have no value by themselves, it's society who decides which are acceptable or not. The new left is pushing some very irresponsible agendas, while demonizing anyones who dares disagree - you even did it yourself, your argument is: "if you disagree with me, you're a bad person". A moralist argument, same as fundamentalist christians use. Just see this thread, the OP premise was everyone disagreeing with him was "insert insult", then claimed he wanted these "derps" to come here to argue with the whole BSN. I posted questioning the full blown acceptance of what BW is pushing, showing how outside of a particular clique, many people disapprove. The people here reacted like they were in kindergarten. I didn't even elaborate about which parts of BW agenda i disagree, but for the new left, disagreeing is enough to make you a bad person - or maybe sinful, depending who is doing the sermon.
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warrior
N3
I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 717 Likes: 1,021
inherit
5264
0
Jun 26, 2017 22:00:50 GMT
1,021
warrior
I don't like MP!
717
Mar 20, 2017 22:14:03 GMT
March 2017
warrior
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by warrior on Jun 25, 2017 19:48:47 GMT
My reaction to the Jaal thing was the same as the two of you, and in general I really do see little but pandering to vocal minorities. Reducing the achievement requirement to two would not only have been the logical thing to do, saving presumably thousands of $$$s over their chosen option to re-write the character, but would have snuffed out much of the whingeing. I know the old adage that no publicity is bad publicity, but I really don't think Bioware can take any comfort from that at this stage. And, at the risk of inflaming some of the younger players' passions, I'll say it would also have helped the heterosexual players among us who will have to forego the romance medal as they cannot bring themselves to even look at Cora, nevermind romance her. The sound of her voice makes me nauseous, her hair is beyond troubling to a man of my age who had to live through A Flock of Seagulls and ABC first time around, and her Asari-obsession is frankly unbecoming for the (rumoured) daughter of a human-supremacist. I indulged my closet inner-lesbian and romanced Peebee as Sara, fully intending to choose Suvi as a partner for Scott, and then I was already struggling to imagine who would be my third, with a minor character Asari-clone the most likely target. But then through all this fuss I learned that Suvi is exclusively gay, while Jaal wasn't allowed to be exclusively straight, and realized that I really don't care enough about any aspect of this game to bother playing it through twice anyway - at least not before there's an 'all characters bi' patch. I don't know if the reason for the ugly women is politically motivated or simply incompetence. I remember seeing the model on whom Sara is based and thinking I might have to redefine my own understanding of incompetence if that truly is the excuse. And I don't buy the argument that female characters are sooo much harder to 'get right', having played a little bit of DOA. I will never forget the first time I loaded the CC, as I recoiled in horror and disbelief, soon followed by gut-busting laughter as I shared the experience with friends - both male and female. I wasn't expecting (or wanting) DOA levels of sexiness, but would have settled for one or two of them resembling actual humans. This is a game. I make no apology for wanting my central female character to be pleasing to my eye. It's an RPG fantasy - no real humans can be hurt by what I might like to fantasize about. I don't think there's something 'wrong' with people who like the default Sara, I just think they must be in a different headspace from me when gaming. I don't want to play a character whose looks reflect an awkward, geeky personality, even if she can 'look fine', sometimes. I want strong and sassy, bordering on sexy when the occasion demands. I managed to create at least 10 FemSheps who managed to meet that requirement, and expected an improvement in MEA with more powerful hardware. I didn't get it, and anyone who thinks they did is delusional, aside from any debate about political agendas versus incompetence. Given Bioware's history, it seems like only the tiniest of conspiracy theories to propose that they listened a little too hard to the people who complained about the overt sexiness of Miranda, Samara and ME3-version Ashley and decided to 'tone it down' a notch or five. My only viable alternate conspiracy theory beyond the excessive incompetence one, is that the Andromeda Initiative was actually conceived as a cunning plan by the Illusive Man to rid the Milky Way of large numbers of idiots, misfits and in-breds, possibly including his own insufferable daughter.
Personally, following on from that potential narrative, I'm far more bothered by Mac Walters' apparent hard-on for AI/Human Synthesis, as manifest in the Cerberus v2.0 version of humanity hiding its illegal AI experimentation from the other migrant species. The sidequest involving the 'terrorists', which ended with the murder of their ringleader was repulsive to me, especially from a studio which had previously given us Garrus's structurally similar loyalty mission in ME2, allowing Shepard to save the intended assassination victim. No such plot development for Ryder, because "why would anybody have a problem with AI?" I would say you couldn't make this shit up, but sadly Bioware did. Finally, for anyone who has waded through my ramblings, I'd like to ask: is "No bigots here" still how one of the dialogue options is summarized when in conversation with Jaal aboard the Normandy? That did perturb me a little in the context of the game and the other choices when I encountered it, in terms of any perceived 'SJW agenda', as by that stage I was already beginning to react a little to the Andromeda Initiative's 'Enforced Kumbaya' mood. Heh well, it has been said that Bioware tends to overreact when they get complaints and instead of focusing on fixing one thing they do an overhaul go overboard leaving many confused. I guess we're still seeing that with how they handled the "sexiness" end of things and romance achievements. BTW, I'm replaying ME2 at the moment and although I felt Miranda was a bit fan service-y, I still love Samara. She's gorgeous, elegant, and graceful even when she's taking out that Asari lol. I just love her entrance. Aside from my Shep (who I think is pretty gorge!), she would have been my main game shero. As for the Firefighter's quest, like was mentioned, you can change the outcome so that she lives (which I didn't realize myself until watching a video walkthrough) but I do agree about the implications after everything happens and how it would give Ryder some more development. I would have liked Ryder to second guess the whole SAM/AI thing that was glossed over earlier in the game. Maybe this quest would cause some distrust toward SAM and they could have some tension that they need to work through (which would allow for SAM to prove his use and need to help in the final mission, thus Ryder would be okay with him...for now). One thing that lacks in this game is the depth that is found in the previous games. I like to think if they had more time, less infighting, the original writers and producers with a clear plot/series bible, they would give Ryder more reflection and paths based on the choices made in the game. And if you choose one way or another in some of these quests, it would change Ryder's outlook for the rest of the game, thus opening up a way to play it different ways on future playthroughs. But yeah, as it is, it does seem like it was played the safe way and with the characterization and the amount of rebels and exiles and incompetent leaders, the Initiative wasn't so much of a fresh new start so much as an exit mission to get rid of some people! Lol. But we'll see. Everything regarding its continuation seems to be in limbo except Kandros's comic and I'm following that with much curiosity. (Comes out this week, too, woo hoo). Yes, that really bothered me. I get that you can't outright reject it because it would break the game, as you can't outright reject working with Cerberus/the Illusive Man in ME2, but at least in that game you could be skeptical and tell him you don't trust him, etc. -- I feel like there should have been more options to express your dislike or fear or apprehension that this is your fate instead of (basically) automatically accepting SAM as a friend.
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812
setokaiba
561
Mar 30, 2017 17:08:54 GMT
March 2017
setokaiba
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Post by setokaiba on Jun 25, 2017 19:52:35 GMT
Feel free to post mockery gifs, the mods here love them, and you won't need to elaborate any argument! Making your interlocutor look bad using bright coloured pictures, a feat of this age. Makes you feel good, right? For someone criticising free speech you seem to know little about it. Ideas have no value by themselves, it's society who decides which are acceptable or not. The new left is pushing some very irresponsible agendas, while demonizing anyones who dares disagree - you even did it yourself, your argument is: "if you disagree with me, you're a bad person". A moralist argument, same as fundamentalist christians use. Just see this thread, the OP premise was everyone disagreeing with him was "insert insult", then claimed he wanted these "derps" to come here to argue with the whole BSN. I posted questioning the full blown acceptance of what BW is pushing, showing how outside of a particular clique, many people disapprove. The people here reacted like they were in kindergarten. I didn't even elaborate about which parts of BW agenda i disagree, but for the new left, disagreeing is enough to make you a bad person - or maybe sinful, depending who is doing the sermon. Think he saying stop demonizing those you disagree with as scumbags and morons and actually listen to what they have to say.You might learn something.
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LilTIM
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 155 Likes: 247
inherit
4471
0
Mar 14, 2017 19:09:14 GMT
247
LilTIM
155
March 2017
liltim
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by LilTIM on Jun 25, 2017 19:54:20 GMT
For someone criticising free speech you seem to know little about it. Ideas have no value by themselves, it's society who decides which are acceptable or not. The new left is pushing some very irresponsible agendas, while demonizing anyones who dares disagree - you even did it yourself, your argument is: "if you disagree with me, you're a bad person". A moralist argument, same as fundamentalist christians use. A. He's not "criticising free speech", like, at all (where did you even get that?) B. "if you disagree with me you're a bad person" is not an accurate or honest paraphrase of anything he said, and C. you've just gone and proved his point here, that you don't understand how free speech works: freedom of speech does NOT include a freedom from disagreement, criticism, ridicule, mockery, or judgment. Someone telling you that your arguments are crap, your ideas dumb, or your opinions ignorant (or immoral) is by no means violating your free speech. And obviously, you don't get to quack and waddle, then complain when someone calls you a duck. Someone needs to do a course on reading comprehension. A. He did, he said my opinions "are bad", with no arguments at all. Oh and "my opinion", was showing how outside the BSN people disagree with Bioware pushing these agendas in their games. B. I wasn't paraphrasing him, why would you expect me to do it? I said the new left does this all the time. C. I don't even know what you're going on about. Tell me when i said "I'm hurt by your opinion, i demand you stop it". I brought my opinion and argued back, then you came here saying i am whining. Are you just looking for excuses to insult people who disagree with you? Is that passes for debate these days? Let me make this point very clear, there's no point in discussion if you're just going to put words on my mouth, that's the most dishonest and vile thing you can do. This is a PUBLIC forum, if you want an echo chamber for your benefit then go somehere else. The whole point of a forum is disccusion, but people here only seem interested in posting memes, tells others "u disagree? u dumb", and self perpetuate their perception that these "safe zones" are the only place where opinions have any worth.
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