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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 26, 2017 1:06:02 GMT
Sure are a lot of people failing to see things these days. So be it. The cycle culture war continues. From behind your keyboard. |
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 26, 2017 1:06:59 GMT
Oh they do and they're pretty scary. Browse through Neogaf and you'll see a bunch of them. But the problem is that some people use the "SJW" term for everyone. Sometimes just for the fact that you're not racist someone calls you a SJW. The thing is, I've never seen the term used the correct way. And considering I've seen people called "SJWs" for objecting to a romance novel portraying a concentration camp inmate falling in love with a Nazi commandant and converting to Christianity, I remain skeptical. That novel.... exists? |
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Post by Warrick on Jun 26, 2017 1:21:30 GMT
For the OP. A succint summary of claims people have made to stamp the sjw label on it:
- Sara was uglier than her model, Scott was not.
- Asari were uglier than their trilogy counterparts, Peebee in particular.
- This was interpreted as they trying too hard not to sexualize females in order to appease feminists.
- Bioware made an unqualified woman animation lead as a diversity hire, causing bad animations.
- The character creator didn't allow you to make white characters.
- Tacked-on trans character with trans story as a token checkbox inclusivity character.
- Excessive focus on gay romance and trans content in post-release patches while neglecting gameplay problems.
- Manveer Heir is racist against whites and worked on the game. (Thanks for the reminder suikoden in the post below)
Have at it.
We know now some of these are factually incorrect: for example, animations were bad because of time constraints and outsourcing and that woman wasn't actually responsible for them.
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 26, 2017 1:24:58 GMT
The thing is, I've never seen the term used the correct way. And considering I've seen people called "SJWs" for objecting to a romance novel portraying a concentration camp inmate falling in love with a Nazi commandant and converting to Christianity, I remain skeptical. That novel.... exists? And was nominated for two RITA awards. That got the controversy into high gear, which brought out the people screaming about "SJWs" trying to police everyone's thought by saying that people should not romanticize Nazis. That is one of the many reasons that I am highly skeptical of the existence of "SJWs". |
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Post by suikoden on Jun 26, 2017 1:25:55 GMT
For the OP. A succint summary of claims people have made to stamp the sjw label on it, without considering their correctness: - Sara was uglier than her model, Scott was not. - Asari were uglier than their trilogy counterparts, Peebee in particular. - This was interpreted as they trying too hard not to sexualize females in order to appease feminists. - Bioware made an unqualified woman animation lead as a diversity hire. - The character creator didn't allow you to make white characters. - Tacked-on trans character with trans story as a token checkbox inclusivity character. - Excessive focus on gay romance and trans content in post-release patches while neglecting gameplay problems. Have at it. You forgot "King Curry Thunder" Manveer Heir... |
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zaeedisking
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: V4vendetta82
Posts: 329 Likes: 469
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Post by zaeedisking on Jun 26, 2017 1:33:01 GMT
I'm really curious to hear more about this, and for some examples, because I have no idea what you mean. I found MEA writing weak but don't see how it relates to SJW--explain? It's not easy to pick out specific examples. The good and evil in this game are very clearly defined, you cannot offend anyone and no one offends you personally, people challenge authority but don't challenge ideas, the relationship in the crew cannot be professional, it is friendly and personal by default, every individual that talks about anything remotely emotionally charged takes extra steps to be super careful, considerate and accepting. I guess one example that I really remember as a wtf moment was when I just recruited Peebee and wanted to talk to her. I selected something neutral as a conversation starter and it ended up being something like: ''I was hoping you would be willing to open up more.'' And that got me really confused as to why is my default convo starter with a new squadmate, that I know nothing about yet, trying to get to know them as a person on deeper level and only if they don't mind. Something like that. The feeling I got from this game is akin to a feeling of mild cultural shock. My first PT I romanced Cora as stock Scott and it just never landed for me... nothing connected. Peebee was just side noise. My last PT was a custom Scott and I romanced Peebee. Man the layers... she is one complicated character... and we love her for that. |
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Post by dark8sage on Jun 26, 2017 1:45:13 GMT
For the OP. A succint summary of claims people have made to stamp the sjw label on it: - Sara was uglier than her model, Scott was not. - Asari were uglier than their trilogy counterparts, Peebee in particular. - This was interpreted as they trying too hard not to sexualize females in order to appease feminists. - Bioware made an unqualified woman animation lead as a diversity hire, causing bad animations. - The character creator didn't allow you to make white characters. - Tacked-on trans character with trans story as a token checkbox inclusivity character. - Excessive focus on gay romance and trans content in post-release patches while neglecting gameplay problems. - Manveer Heir is racist against whites and worked on the game. (Thanks for the reminder suikoden in the post below) Have at it. We know now some of these are factually incorrect: for example, animations were bad because of time constraints and outsourcing and that woman wasn't actually responsible for them. Um, what? Scott Ryder is still less attractive than his model. Asari were still sexy fembots, compared to no sexy male alien race that's just a male human idealised body with a different skin color and hair. This game actually had WORSE gay content than ME3, it's actually a fucking step back, when ME was already pretty bad to begin with when it came to gay love interests compared to Dragon Age. This is the one mass effect game where straight males had way more love interest options, and they had the most squad mate romance options on top of their options also being humanoid and not deformed aliens like Jaal. |
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yeah rip
N3
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Post by yeah rip on Jun 26, 2017 1:49:20 GMT
I don't understand the constant moaning about default Sara to be honest. First - "she's ugly" is subjective, plenty of people find her pretty. Second - you don't actually have to play as her, why complain about it when you will likely never see her in your game? On the subject of Sara's face model - when people google her, most of the results that come up are her professional (read: photoshopped) photos. If you watch a video of her, she looks much closer to Sara. I agree with the general notion that the devs were trying to tone down the "attractiveness" because some feminists keep complaining about shit that doesn't matter females in games being "too attractive".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 1:51:25 GMT
*sigh* what happened to just playing a game because games are fun?  |
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 26, 2017 2:01:41 GMT
*sigh* what happened to just playing a game because games are fun?  |
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zaeedisking
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: V4vendetta82
Posts: 329 Likes: 469
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Post by zaeedisking on Jun 26, 2017 2:08:58 GMT
*sigh* what happened to just playing a game because games are fun?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 2:11:59 GMT
*sigh* what happened to just playing a game because games are fun? Perhaps first you have to answer whatever happened to devs developing games just for fun? |
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Jun 26, 2017 2:13:47 GMT
LMAO, that is so deeply fucked. What novel is that? by Kate Breslin. Here's a joint discussion of the book that goes into the good and the bad including the fact that the publisher used an actual photograph of jews at Auschwitz as a part of the romance novel cover: dearauthor.com/features/letters-of-opinion/joint-discussion-time-kate-breslin/Note: it's not just about the premise of the book, it's also about how that premise is written. Oh my god. Usually I'm pretty willing to shrug off weirdness with an awkward laugh (and/or a judgement on the quality of the character of the person responsible), but.... How self-absorbed do you have to be to not take a step back and be like "Maybe I shouldn't...." |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 2:17:03 GMT
*sigh* what happened to just playing a game because games are fun? Perhaps first you have to answer whatever happened to devs developing games just for fun. *shrugs* I always have fun playing a game no matter how it's developed. Even now I am baffled at the complaints about DAI and MEA, but that's just me I guess. Skyrim was the most glitchy game I ever played and it became a classic because of it. I felt DAI and MEA had the same kind of stupid glitches that's a trademark of the BW, and I saw vids on them and was laughing with tears in my eyes. Never had any of them in my own game, but they were hilarious to watch! |
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 26, 2017 2:19:46 GMT
*sigh* what happened to just playing a game because games are fun?  |
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Post by Warrick on Jun 26, 2017 2:20:49 GMT
For the record I don't agree with any of the claims I listed. I just thought the thread lacked a summary answer to clarify the matter.
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Post by suikoden on Jun 26, 2017 2:20:53 GMT
I don't understand the constant moaning about default Sara to be honest. First - "she's ugly" is subjective, plenty of people find her pretty. Second - you don't actually have to play as her, why complain about it when you will likely never see her in your game? On the subject of Sara's face model - when people google her, most of the results that come up are her professional (read: photoshopped) photos. If you watch a video of her, she looks much closer to Sara. I agree with the general notion that the devs were trying to tone down the "attractiveness" because some feminists keep complaining about shit that doesn't matter females in games being "too atractive". They deliberately made her less attractive. Not sure how having bigger lips, bulbous nose, buggy eyes, misshapen features is subjective... |
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 26, 2017 2:22:28 GMT
*sigh* what happened to just playing a game because games are fun?  |
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 26, 2017 2:23:59 GMT
*sigh* what happened to just playing a game because games are fun?  |
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Post by suikoden on Jun 26, 2017 2:27:58 GMT
*sigh* what happened to just playing a game because games are fun? Bioware doesn't make "fun" games anymore. They make checkbox sex simulators. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 2:29:11 GMT
*sigh* what happened to just playing a game because games are fun? Bioware doesn't make "fun" games anymore. They make checkbox sex simulators. Sex in BW games is optional. Just how many did you do accidentally?  |
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 26, 2017 2:31:54 GMT
*sigh* what happened to just playing a game because games are fun?  Obviously, I loke your post. That was a typo, now it is a word, because I love like your post, my internetizen. I feel like none of this is BioWare's fault. It is industry-wide, there is a dearth of quality, there is a ubiquity of FTP2W, there is horrendous quality control and the general bad trend of all business, focusing solely on the bottom line. In short, or TL;DR if you prefer: bad games are a symptom of spreading micro-management based solely on number crunching, which is rampant and abusive in gaming but present in most business. It is taking all the joy out of filmmaking. |
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zaeedisking
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: V4vendetta82
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Post by zaeedisking on Jun 26, 2017 2:32:46 GMT
I don't understand the constant moaning about default Sara to be honest. First - "she's ugly" is subjective, plenty of people find her pretty. Second - you don't actually have to play as her, why complain about it when you will likely never see her in your game? On the subject of Sara's face model - when people google her, most of the results that come up are her professional (read: photoshopped) photos. If you watch a video of her, she looks much closer to Sara. I agree with the general notion that the devs were trying to tone down the "attractiveness" because some feminists keep complaining about shit that doesn't matter females in games being "too atractive". They deliberately made her less attractive. Not sure how having bigger lips, bulbous nose, buggy eyes, misshapen features is subjective... Honestly? Who fucking cares. You like blue... I like red... half this forum probably hates both. People who played this game liked default Sarah and then some didn't. What matters is they had fun playing the damn game. I could care less if she was "attractive" enough for the internet. |
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Post by suikoden on Jun 26, 2017 2:33:51 GMT
Bioware doesn't make "fun" games anymore. They make checkbox sex simulators. Sex in BW games is optional. Just how many did you do accidentally? They didn't even bother fixing bugs in the latest patch. But they added another sex scene for you to check off. Priorities. This is the new bioware. |
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Post by suikoden on Jun 26, 2017 2:36:50 GMT
They deliberately made her less attractive. Not sure how having bigger lips, bulbous nose, buggy eyes, misshapen features is subjective... Honestly? Who fucking cares. You like blue... I like red... half this forum probably hates both. People who played this game liked default Sarah and then some didn't. What matters is they had fun playing the damn game. I could care less if she was "attractive" enough for the internet. I get that you don't care based on your profile pic. Thing is, people play these games as an escape from reality. They want to roleplay as attractive characters. That's why CC was so disappointing. That's why everyone show's off their characters. "Look how hot my Sara is" "OMG so hot!" People care. They don't play RPGs to roleplay as everyday-life uggos. Especially when these uggos will eventually get naked. |
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