Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Jul 15, 2017 10:40:26 GMT
The journalists should take THEIR SHARE of responsibility when they continually report stories in a biased fashion... and meming something to death within their reports and on panels, etc. is not "cutsie" reporting... it's biased reporting. Likewise, the fans should take THEIR SHARE of responsibility for the exaggerations they tend towards when complaining about things... using terms like "ALWAYS" when the reality is "sometimes" or, at most, "frequently. Bioware does need to take responsibility for the state of the game... but the over-reaction to that state and the ongoing bias against it despite it being patched... that rests on the heads of the journalists and the fans. Nah....when I handed over my £49.99/$60.00, I was given a pretty substandard Bioware game.......FACT. Both social and industry media reported/responded to what they were given.......a substandard Bioware game......FACT. To blame fans and Journalism for Andromeda's state is ridiculous,no one credits journalism or the fans for a games success do they.......a game is successful because it's fundamentally good......Andromeda wasn't for a Bioware game. Patching and fixing after I've played/experienced the game,is a substandard practice that again has been normalised.......if the game needs extensive patches /fixes and retools,then it strongly suggests that the game was not in a fit state for release......but they release it any way. Yes,Bioware does indeed need to take responsibility for the game,which is where transparency/PR comes into play........but to date EA/Bioware has taken responsibility for nothing and real communication seems impossible..........this just isn't the Bioware I've supported over the years. Those aren't facts, those are opinions unless there is a way to actually measure the content. I have a friend that despised Mass Effect 2 and 3, but loves Mass Effect: Andromeda so to him it isn't a substandard product. Then most games aren't in the proper state for release anymore and holding BioWare to a standard that nobody holds other companies to again is a problem with the consumer and not the company. If you think all games are substandard then I will agree with you. Frankly BioWare has taken responsibility for they have admitted they needed to work on some areas of the game and patched it, so they are been transparent and talking about they made mistakes and are going out and fixing them. Just because it isn't to a level of your satisfaction doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
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Post by darkway1 on Jul 15, 2017 13:59:05 GMT
Nah....when I handed over my £49.99/$60.00, I was given a pretty substandard Bioware game.......FACT. Both social and industry media reported/responded to what they were given.......a substandard Bioware game......FACT. To blame fans and Journalism for Andromeda's state is ridiculous,no one credits journalism or the fans for a games success do they.......a game is successful because it's fundamentally good......Andromeda wasn't for a Bioware game. Patching and fixing after I've played/experienced the game,is a substandard practice that again has been normalised.......if the game needs extensive patches /fixes and retools,then it strongly suggests that the game was not in a fit state for release......but they release it any way. Yes,Bioware does indeed need to take responsibility for the game,which is where transparency/PR comes into play........but to date EA/Bioware has taken responsibility for nothing and real communication seems impossible..........this just isn't the Bioware I've supported over the years. Those aren't facts, those are opinions unless there is a way to actually measure the content. I have a friend that despised Mass Effect 2 and 3, but loves Mass Effect: Andromeda so to him it isn't a substandard product. Then most games aren't in the proper state for release anymore and holding BioWare to a standard that nobody holds other companies to again is a problem with the consumer and not the company. If you think all games are substandard then I will agree with you. Frankly BioWare has taken responsibility for they have admitted they needed to work on some areas of the game and patched it, so they are been transparent and talking about they made mistakes and are going out and fixing them. Just because it isn't to a level of your satisfaction doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Your response is delusional at best........your taste/preference has nothing to do with basic standards on which we gauge the difference between good and bad.............just because the game bugs don't bother you it doesn't negate the FACT that bugs are present. Games having bugs require fixes,this is fine and a welcome perk of modern gaming.........games that require retooling animations because they were rubbish,especially after I've experience what the game has to offer.......is a pretty terrible way of operating. You obviously don't know what transparency is......sales figures,franchise future,DLC,a response to reported development issue's etc etc.......instead the actions of EA/Bioware serve to hide and manipulate information. At some point people need to acknowledge the negativity surrounding Andromeda spawns from the game and the developers themselves........many of the hardcore fans here are unable to look at Andromeda subjectively and instead promote a very selective/bias perspective.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 14:07:25 GMT
Those aren't facts, those are opinions unless there is a way to actually measure the content. I have a friend that despised Mass Effect 2 and 3, but loves Mass Effect: Andromeda so to him it isn't a substandard product. Then most games aren't in the proper state for release anymore and holding BioWare to a standard that nobody holds other companies to again is a problem with the consumer and not the company. If you think all games are substandard then I will agree with you. Frankly BioWare has taken responsibility for they have admitted they needed to work on some areas of the game and patched it, so they are been transparent and talking about they made mistakes and are going out and fixing them. Just because it isn't to a level of your satisfaction doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Your response is delusional at best........your taste/preference has nothing to do with basic standards on which we gauge the difference between good and bad.............just because the game bugs don't bother you it doesn't negate the FACT that bugs are present. Games having bugs require fixes,this is fine and a welcome perk of modern gaming.........games that require retooling animations because they were rubbish,especially after I've experience what the game has to offer.......is a pretty terrible way of operating. You obviously don't know what transparency is......sales figures,franchise future,DLC,a response to reported development issue's etc etc.......instead the actions of EA/Bioware serve to hide and manipulate information. At some point people need to acknowledge the negativity surrounding Andromeda spawns from the game and the developers themselves........many of the hardcore fans here are unable to look at Andromeda subjectively and instead promote a very selective/bias perspective. Why so defensive of your personal hatred for this game that you instantly resort to calling other "delusional" because they don't share your opinion? Why so defensive of a shitbag gaming "news" industry that basically consists of a bunch of editorialists (not journalists) copying each other, meming and generally acting like prepubescent teenagers online? They do it just to attract clicks to their sites... and when that doesn't work, they resort to having their videos run automatically after other videos on YouTube... so if you aren't johnny on the spot and stop the video you want to watch before the next one kicks in... they get credit for a click and view for that one as well. The ways games are reported on in this day and age is pure crap. This game was getting trashed by the media a full year before it was released. Where is your expectation of a "basic standard" in reporting whatever data these "news" outlets are given. They've driven the developers into silence because anything they release gets twisted in such absurd fashions that they feel they are better off releasing nothing ahead of time. At least Bioware fixed the problems within 4 months of delivery. That you still don't like the game is your problem. That I and others still like the game IS NOT your problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 14:08:29 GMT
At some point people need to acknowledge the negativity surrounding Andromeda spawns from the game and the developers themselves........many of the hardcore fans here are unable to look at Andromeda subjectively and instead promote a very selective/bias perspective. Yeah, all of those people obsessed with whining about how Peebee doesn't turn them on or how gay people exist in Andromeda are all BioWare's fault.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 15, 2017 15:12:19 GMT
You obviously don't know what transparency is......sales figures,franchise future,DLC,a response to reported development issue's etc etc.......instead the actions of EA/Bioware serve to hide and manipulate information. What does transparency have to do with anything? The game is what it is. The DLC is either coming, or it isn't. Knowing about these things might be of interest to me -- would be, obviously, since I'm following the thread -- but it's got nothing to do with whether or not I'd buy a DLC should one happen to exist in the future. (FWIW, my gaming purchase history makes it pretty clear that I won't buy a DLC; I haven't bought a non-UE DLC since Pirates of the Sword Coast.)
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Post by darkway1 on Jul 15, 2017 18:25:43 GMT
You obviously don't know what transparency is......sales figures,franchise future,DLC,a response to reported development issue's etc etc.......instead the actions of EA/Bioware serve to hide and manipulate information. What does transparency have to do with anything? The game is what it is. The DLC is either coming, or it isn't. Knowing about these things might be of interest to me -- would be, obviously, since I'm following the thread -- but it's got nothing to do with whether or not I'd buy a DLC should one happen to exist in the future. (FWIW, my gaming purchase history makes it pretty clear that I won't buy a DLC; I haven't bought a non-UE DLC since Pirates of the Sword Coast.) EA/BW Transparency and marketing.....it's the name/point of this thread. The subject of DLC is only mentioned in context of PR/communication........EA/Bioware ended Andromeda with the Quarian Ark......so EA/Bioware CREATED a situation where people are going to ask questions..........yet EA/Bioware can't,won't answer. If a company can't respond to a legit question,that they themselves begged to be asked ......well,there's some thing wrong.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 15, 2017 18:54:00 GMT
What does transparency have to do with anything? The game is what it is. The DLC is either coming, or it isn't. Knowing about these things might be of interest to me -- would be, obviously, since I'm following the thread -- but it's got nothing to do with whether or not I'd buy a DLC should one happen to exist in the future. (FWIW, my gaming purchase history makes it pretty clear that I won't buy a DLC; I haven't bought a non-UE DLC since Pirates of the Sword Coast.) EA/BW Transparency and marketing.....it's the name/point of this thread. Yep. And also, duh. I am questioning the premise of the thread. People are asking questions, yes. I'm still waiting to see the actual problem. What is it, exactly?
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Post by darkway1 on Jul 15, 2017 19:10:18 GMT
EA/BW Transparency and marketing.....it's the name/point of this thread. Yep. And also, duh. I am questioning the premise of the thread. People are asking questions, yes. I'm still waiting to see the actual problem. What is it, exactly? I'm not sure what to say really.....I've pointed out a whole host of issue's and yet your trying to work out what the problem is????
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jul 15, 2017 21:58:39 GMT
Those aren't facts, those are opinions unless there is a way to actually measure the content. I have a friend that despised Mass Effect 2 and 3, but loves Mass Effect: Andromeda so to him it isn't a substandard product. Then most games aren't in the proper state for release anymore and holding BioWare to a standard that nobody holds other companies to again is a problem with the consumer and not the company. If you think all games are substandard then I will agree with you. Frankly BioWare has taken responsibility for they have admitted they needed to work on some areas of the game and patched it, so they are been transparent and talking about they made mistakes and are going out and fixing them. Just because it isn't to a level of your satisfaction doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Your response is delusional at best........your taste/preference has nothing to do with basic standards on which we gauge the difference between good and bad.............just because the game bugs don't bother you it doesn't negate the FACT that bugs are present. Games having bugs require fixes,this is fine and a welcome perk of modern gaming.........games that require retooling animations because they were rubbish,especially after I've experience what the game has to offer.......is a pretty terrible way of operating. You obviously don't know what transparency is......sales figures,franchise future,DLC,a response to reported development issue's etc etc.......instead the actions of EA/Bioware serve to hide and manipulate information. At some point people need to acknowledge the negativity surrounding Andromeda spawns from the game and the developers themselves........many of the hardcore fans here are unable to look at Andromeda subjectively and instead promote a very selective/bias perspective. Good and bad are subjective, plenty of things out there people think is good and others think it is bad. Look at movies there are critics rate movies were good and others say they are bad otherwise a place like Rotten Tomatoes would be 100% or 0%. So using your logic The Witcher 3 was a bad game since they went back and redesigned the UI then? To me that is even more important to a game then the animations. Not all the animations in Andromeda were broken either, a lot of them were average with a few really bad ones with others that were over the place. So? That is their choice and they think it is a good idea while you think it is bad. Not all companies release that kind of information and if people are manipulating the silence then it is up the consumer to decide if they want to believe it or not. The information you say you are deserving some companies consider internal secrets and no matter how much you want to see it they will never release it because they feel the release will harm the company in some way. Blizzard over the years has become secretive as well, they no longer comment on sales figures. They just released the first DLC for Diablo 3 after the expansion and were only talking about it after they announced it at a Blizzcon. They also had a horrible launch with Diablo 3 and over time and an expansion fixed the game, but I don't recall them releasing any information about how they were fixing the game or how they game sold. It spawns from multiple places, BioWare/EA released the game so they do deserve blame for releasing the game they did, but at the same time how many other games have been given a free pass for what they have released as well by the "fans" and the media who then raked BioWare over the coals for those problems. Bethesda games are all treated like the second coming, but plenty of the bugs make the games unplayable on launch, but reviewers still talked about how those games were nearly perfect.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 15, 2017 23:57:12 GMT
darkway1: you've pointed out the issues in the same way that the Underpants Gnomes posted a plan to earn huge profits. The argument's all there except for the part that's actually doing the work.
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Post by malgus on Jul 16, 2017 18:25:57 GMT
I admit that before the game launches, at first I thought they were just going for an interesting approach of not spoiling anything before the game comes out (like they did with ME 2 spoiling both grunt and legion) so that is why they were so discreet, but right now I am not sure if it was the intention considering that they spoiled peebee loyalty mission with IGN before the game was out...
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Post by darkway1 on Jul 16, 2017 23:15:47 GMT
Your response is delusional at best........your taste/preference has nothing to do with basic standards on which we gauge the difference between good and bad.............just because the game bugs don't bother you it doesn't negate the FACT that bugs are present. Games having bugs require fixes,this is fine and a welcome perk of modern gaming.........games that require retooling animations because they were rubbish,especially after I've experience what the game has to offer.......is a pretty terrible way of operating. You obviously don't know what transparency is......sales figures,franchise future,DLC,a response to reported development issue's etc etc.......instead the actions of EA/Bioware serve to hide and manipulate information. At some point people need to acknowledge the negativity surrounding Andromeda spawns from the game and the developers themselves........many of the hardcore fans here are unable to look at Andromeda subjectively and instead promote a very selective/bias perspective. Good and bad are subjective, plenty of things out there people think is good and others think it is bad. Look at movies there are critics rate movies were good and others say they are bad otherwise a place like Rotten Tomatoes would be 100% or 0%. So using your logic The Witcher 3 was a bad game since they went back and redesigned the UI then? To me that is even more important to a game then the animations. Not all the animations in Andromeda were broken either, a lot of them were average with a few really bad ones with others that were over the place. So? That is their choice and they think it is a good idea while you think it is bad. Not all companies release that kind of information and if people are manipulating the silence then it is up the consumer to decide if they want to believe it or not. The information you say you are deserving some companies consider internal secrets and no matter how much you want to see it they will never release it because they feel the release will harm the company in some way. Blizzard over the years has become secretive as well, they no longer comment on sales figures. They just released the first DLC for Diablo 3 after the expansion and were only talking about it after they announced it at a Blizzcon. They also had a horrible launch with Diablo 3 and over time and an expansion fixed the game, but I don't recall them releasing any information about how they were fixing the game or how they game sold. It spawns from multiple places, BioWare/EA released the game so they do deserve blame for releasing the game they did, but at the same time how many other games have been given a free pass for what they have released as well by the "fans" and the media who then raked BioWare over the coals for those problems. Bethesda games are all treated like the second coming, but plenty of the bugs make the games unplayable on launch, but reviewers still talked about how those games were nearly perfect. OK,good and bad are subjective from an individuals point of view........which means that even if Andromeda is garbage......you can like it.....I respect that to a point. Good and bad from a critical point of view is based on comparing like for like.....some thing's are obviously better than others. Meta data is extremely valuable these day's but it's also vulnerable to misinterpretation,especially when in the hands of business........so unless information is used in context,I don't have much faith in score's,star's, rating's etc. .............so for example,Transformers 12 and Jurassic Park 13 make loads of money but it doesn't mean they are great films,people end up watching them because they have nothing better to do. The Witcher is actually an example of good PR/transparency/business practice,especially your comment regarding the UI redesign because I was one of the very people who complained about the issue in the first place. Originally the UI font was designed for PC,which caused problems for console users who viewed the game from a distance (big tv in living room),the font used was way too small........so people like my self raised the issue and CDRED responded with a fix and later ended with a redesign..........this is good.CDRED didn't fix a broken UI,they addressed a design oversight,big difference. CDRED also retooled a few cut scenes,just like Andromeda.......but they did this to improve them,NOT because they were terrible or unfinished. Lot's of people didn't like the Witchers tone,thinking it was sexist and vulgar.......CDRED responded with "Witcher is a mature game,aimed at mature gamers,if you don't like it then maybe the game is NOT for you"........how refreshing is that to hear.......it's clear,to the point and doesn't pander to any sales pitch.......buy it or don't. The horse in Witcher (roach) has been ridiculed for it's almost mental behaviour on times.........but CDRED have openly acknowledged struggling with the horse handling mechanic.....again,how refreshing. Witcher also experienced a backlash from gamers after having it's graphics downgraded after it's E3 gameplay reveal........I don't agree with the practice of showing upscaled versions of a game that doesn't represent the actual game your going to play (Anthem). CDRED explained the graphic downgrade was about maintaining stability and solid frame rate......which at least made reasonable sense.....even IF it was a lie. In contrast,Ubisoft at the time,who used the same upscaling/frame rate,sales pitch for their game.........explained the downscaling and 30fps as a way of creating a more cinematic experience......really,REALLY. At a time when gamers complained about DLC and Season passes........Witcher delivered terrific DLC and brilliant value for money. The Witcher game came with the OST in the box,a bunch of free DLC's,free PS4 themes and avatars and on and on...........so when I experience game killing,game save bug (you lose game progress after a particular point) I'm ok with giving CDRED a pass, even if I couldn't play the game for a month.........this is the effect of good PR when you have good will on your side. Please note that I have focused on the Witcher in context of PR and marketing,and how they respond/react to PR issues........CDRED's marketing/PR machine, I feel does a good job of generating good will and maintains developer integrity. EA/Bioware on the other hand is the polar opposite,they do nothing to generate good will,unless it's for business reasons and refuse to acknowledge criticism......at a time when the community is genuinely asking about DLC and the future of the franchise,Bioware responds by releasing new multiplayer content featuring a race that isn't even in the game and maintains it's silence. EA/Bioware should and CAN do better to build a more constructive community....but why should they if......A/ they have no interest in community....B/ if the community themselves are willing to tolerate/support Bioware's substandard PR/business mentality . In fact,this very forum is a perfect and ironic example of EA/Bioware's poor PR and transparency..........if it wasn't for the nice people (salute) who created this forum we couldn't even discuss this topic or any topic because EA/Bioware shut their forms down in preparation for Andromeda's launch.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 23:21:33 GMT
Oh look, a Witcher fanboy whining about BioWare! Who would have imagined?
CDPR took a bunch of content from the game, put it into an overinflated number of insignificant bundles because they think gamers are stupid enough to be conned by "16 free DLCs!", and didn't bother making the game better or fixing actual issues with the game for months.
Whereas BioWare has fixed bugs, improved gameplay features, and added entirely new features post-launch with their games. They don't just kiss their own asses over it.
CDPR just think that gamers are idiots. The sad thing is that they're right.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 17, 2017 18:44:44 GMT
Meta data is extremely valuable these day's but it's also vulnerable to misinterpretation,especially when in the hands of business........so unless information is used in context,I don't have much faith in score's,star's, rating's etc. .............so for example,Transformers 12 and Jurassic Park 13 make loads of money but it doesn't mean they are great films,people end up watching them because they have nothing better to do. How do you know that? Did you ask people why they went to see those films? I'm still waiting for the actual problem to show up. How does the lack of transparency hurt EA, exactly? Fans won't buy DLC because it wasn't announced weeks in advance? How does that work? I'm perfectly willing to believe that gamers are self-destructive idiots, so if the argument relies on that I'm OK with it.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 18, 2017 1:16:35 GMT
- Not commenting on ME being on hiatus.
- Not commenting on MEA's 3 year troubled development.
- Not commenting on the disappearing negative GlassDoor reviews.
- Can say that Anthem which isn't released yet will get 10 year support, but they can't say anything about DLC on 4 month old game with only 1 year support.
- Not specifying the amount of BW Montréal developers moved to Motive Studios to work on Star Wars, and how much are left to continue working on MEA.
There's also the not denouncing Manveer Heir's racist comments, and just leaving it at "he's not working on BW anymore".Bioware has always been close-mouthed. They've always announced things only when they wanted to do so. People have been complaining about it for years, to no avail. It will continue to be this way as long as they continue to sell games. Unless you miraculously organize some incredibly successful EA boycott, things will remain this way.
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Post by darkway1 on Jul 18, 2017 12:15:54 GMT
Meta data is extremely valuable these day's but it's also vulnerable to misinterpretation,especially when in the hands of business........so unless information is used in context,I don't have much faith in score's,star's, rating's etc. .............so for example,Transformers 12 and Jurassic Park 13 make loads of money but it doesn't mean they are great films,people end up watching them because they have nothing better to do. How do you know that? Did you ask people why they went to see those films? I'm still waiting for the actual problem to show up. How does the lack of transparency hurt EA, exactly? Fans won't buy DLC because it wasn't announced weeks in advance? How does that work? I'm perfectly willing to believe that gamers are self-destructive idiots, so if the argument relies on that I'm OK with it. It's pretty obvious that you have no interest in addressing anything in a constructive way........... In my previous post I highlighted how CDRED counted criticism via transparency,which I consider to be good PR,that helps establish a good relationship between developer and customer/gamer. The topic of good PR and the general handling of Andromeda ties directly into how Andromeda is perceived,rated etc..........hence why I believe Bioware has dug their own negative hole because they have inept PR. Of course I also understand that Bioware is unable to speak for it's self as every response probably needs to be greenlite by EA,who,let's be honest,are in it for the cash. I have also listed a host of issue's that have plagued Andromeda from day one,from lead writers,creators,staff leaving mid project,out spoken (SJW) employees,forum shut down,the state of the game on release,the Kotaku report and on and on and on.......EA/Bioware sweeps it all under the carpet,refusing to acknowledge/address any of it. The catch 22 of having an inept PR system,allows speculation to run rampant,which builds negativity,false hype and misguided expectations.......and from what I see,EA/Bioware allows it all to happen. A portion of the fan base not only finds Andromeda's development saga acceptable,they actually defend it and normalize it...........unable to grasp simple concept's like mega patching a game months after release means very little to some one who has experienced it........and by anyone's standards you can't represent an entire race of people using one model (Asari etc). So to sum up......if Bioware's PR setup actually took control and tackled/addressed speculation and common questions then maybe they would restore a bit of faith and credibility.........as it stands their silence is doing more harm than good,unless all the negativity surrounding Andromeda is true. For me Andromeda is done,I'm only concerned about future Bioware games.......
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