Croatsky
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Post by Croatsky on Jul 3, 2017 18:26:46 GMT
It bothers me as a journalist how easily people assume unnamed sources are just imaginary, and reporters just make stuff up. Even in gaming news, these are people with professional pride in finding the truth and providing it to the public. Gaming presses have been founded on being on nothing more then marketing tool for video games and creating tabloid level of rumour mills. This medium just has no legs to stand on, unlike century old institutions of print media nor over half a century old TV media. Institutions that were born out of seeking the truth for the public. Gaming presses has no such core foundation and they had only gotten worse with online media that requires tabloid level clickbait junk articles to remain relevant. And I don't even think these sources are imaginary. I just don't think people who are "familiar with BioWare" nor "close with BioWare" credible enough to be taken seriously, especially when not even quoted directly nor say any specifics. It's quite naive and ignorant to consider gaming presses in any way credible and have any real journalistic integrity. Both mainstream and independent outlets, and especially independent gaming press outlets. |
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sjsharp2010
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 3, 2017 18:27:51 GMT
Let's hope they have learnt from it because atm whilst MEA does have an ending it's not providing as much closuer as it needs so hopefully we'll get DLC that will do that. If after all the demands already met for MEA we are still ignored in future games I am just done with EA. They have the damn rights to the DLC and the leash tightly wrapped around BW's neck. Well part of the reason for ME3's Extended cut w3as because people didn't feel there was enough closure to the story so hopefully they'll do the same this time use the DLC to either expand (if they plan on doing an MEA2) which I doubt right now or ti ethe loose ends up then that's all we can ask. Hopefully they wrap things up one way or another though. Because they risk a similar outrage if they do nothing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 18:28:22 GMT
BioWare's silence about this is incredibly irritating. I think it's doing them a disservice as all the stories claiming there's no DLC will be believed, then folks won't care when or if they do ever announce it. They need to say something now, whilst the momentum is still there, before the world stops caring. I bet there are so many ppl at BioWare who are super frustrated by all this, but blocked from doing anything about it because of the NDAs. I doubt anyone will even hint or reply that they can't talk about it on Twitter, not until after the holidays. The timing of the hoax and trash articles was perfect since no one at BW will be active fully until July 5th. Canada Day became an extra long weekend. The government took Monday off too, and July 4th is tomorrow. Oh. WHAT A COINCIDENCE.  Bastards. Those hoaxers can go fuck themselves. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 18:28:44 GMT
People will put their heads in the sand no matter how many sources. Whatever, I don't care enough to argue. The game is already $20 on sale right now and was not a critical or commercial success. Based on all available sources, the game has surpassed its initial sales goal of three million in its first month, and based on the number of Xbox One owners of the game, an estimate of 4.5-5 million in sales is not unreasonable. EA themselves have said they're pleased with the game's performance and the series's potential. If it looks like an ostrich and sounds like an ostrich... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 18:29:49 GMT
If after all the demands already met for MEA we are still ignored in future games I am just done with EA. They have the damn rights to the DLC and the leash tightly wrapped around BW's neck. Well part of the reason for ME3's Extended cut w3as because people didn't feel there was enough closure to the story so hopefully they'll do the same this time use the DLC to either expand (if they plan on doing an MEA2) which I doubt right now or ti ethe loose ends up then that's all we can ask. Hopefully they wrap things up one way or another though. Because they risk a similar outrage if they do nothing. They never should have mentioned the Quarian Ark in the APEX mission or had us listen to that signal at the end of MEA if they were just going to end it. My Ryder's main story is over. She discovered a lot of things, helped a lot of people, found true love and the best of friends, but you don't add that extra stuff if you are planning to wrap it up in a novel I am not buying. |
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jaegerbane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 3, 2017 18:31:59 GMT
It's quite naive and ignorant to consider gaming presses in any way credible and have any real journalistic integrity. Both mainstream and independent outlets, and especially independent gaming press outlets. I'll agree with most of this but I'll probably burn my protection card for PC Zone back in the day. Brilliant piece of work, only total classics got a 90%+. Unfortunately it closed years ago, though the staff went on to bigger things. Charlie Brooker ended up writing Dead Set and Black Mirror series, and Rihanna Pratchett ended up scripting the later Tomb Raider games. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 18:33:59 GMT
I doubt anyone will even hint or reply that they can't talk about it on Twitter, not until after the holidays. The timing of the hoax and trash articles was perfect since no one at BW will be active fully until July 5th. Canada Day became an extra long weekend. The government took Monday off too, and July 4th is tomorrow. Oh. WHAT A COINCIDENCE. Bastards. Those hoaxers can go fuck themselves. Also there was no APEX missions because of the holidays, and rumors started that it was over and they were shutting down, and proof was no missions, even though they said on Twitch it was because of Canada Day and the 4th of July. |
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Post by rolenka on Jul 3, 2017 18:35:38 GMT
Anonymous sources are one of the most honored traditions in journalism. Papers have spent millions in court defending their right to keep them secret because they are so valuable to the public. Yes, we know. It also makes them unverifiable. Nobody knows who's saying what and why. This is why many articles combine unnamed sources with other named sources and supporting facts. Again, it's not my job to blindly believe a journalist. It's the journalists job to sell a story. They also don't use anonymous sources unless they can be sure what they say is true. Usually that means independently verifying what they can. That the person is in a position to know what they say they know and has no apparent reason to lie isn't good enough. How do you "sell" a story beyond presenting the facts, anyway? |
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jaegerbane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 3, 2017 18:36:27 GMT
People will put their heads in the sand no matter how many sources. Whatever, I don't care enough to argue. The game is already $20 on sale right now and was not a critical or commercial success. Based on all available sources, the game has surpassed its initial sales goal of three million in its first month, and based on the number of Xbox One owners of the game, an estimate of 4.5-5 million in sales is not unreasonable. EA themselves have said they're pleased with the game's performance and the series's potential. If it looks like an ostrich and sounds like an ostrich... No no no, that's just what they want you to believe. The devs are lying to their parent company because reasons. In fact it only sold ten copies and my source bought all of them. I can't tell you who my source is though. If you don't believe me I'll post your avatar on twitter and people are going to stab you up. |
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 3, 2017 18:41:12 GMT
Yes, we know. It also makes them unverifiable. Nobody knows who's saying what and why. This is why many articles combine unnamed sources with other named sources and supporting facts. Again, it's not my job to blindly believe a journalist. It's the journalists job to sell a story. . Usually that means independently verifying what they can. That the person is in a position to know what they say they know and has no apparent reason to lie isn't good enough. How do you "sell" a story beyond presenting the facts, anyway? That is not true, I've seen plenty of instances where reports have had to be retracted or the claims of anonymous sources went nowhere or were later proven to be false. You sell a story by presenting facts. An anonymous source isn't a fact, as I've already pointed out. |
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Post by rolenka on Jul 3, 2017 18:41:58 GMT
People here are either saying the game will get dlc. And then there are others that are saying it won't. Here is the thing though everything in still up in the air. I wish bioware were more damn open with their dlc plans. I mean its not as if it would affect the people who didn't like the game. It would have only helped to keep it in the public eye. I'm just going to say there are very legal reasons that BioWare can't do that. It's all about conduct as a publicly traded company and all that blah, blah, blah. I hate it but that's the reality. Revenue recognition rules do not apply to paid DLC. Stop saying this. It is when you promise free updates to paid-for content that you have expanded your "contractual obligation" to the customer. |
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Post by rolenka on Jul 3, 2017 18:43:39 GMT
They also don't use anonymous sources unless they can be sure what they say is true. Usually that means independently verifying what they can. That the person is in a position to know what they say they know and has no apparent reason to lie isn't good enough. How do you "sell" a story beyond presenting the facts, anyway? That is not true, I've seen plenty of instances where reports have had to be retracted or the claims of anonymous sources went nowhere or were later proven to be false. You sell a story by presenting facts. An anonymous source isn't a fact, as I've already pointed out. An anonymous source saying something is the fact. Reporters actually say very little, if anything at all. |
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jaegerbane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 3, 2017 18:43:52 GMT
They also don't use anonymous sources unless they can be sure what they say is true. Usually that means independently verifying what they can. That the person is in a position to know what they say they know and has no apparent reason to lie isn't good enough. I don't think you've understood the argument. The discussion was about a guy who initially reported a story that appeared to be broadly sensible. When questioned, he pointed out that he's reporting the facts from his sources but since they're anonymous that didn't actually answer the question. Then a similar source saying much the same things turned out to be a hoax. Then his sources just so happened to respond to tell him that despite it being all BS, the hoax was correct just in time for the 4th of July. Then he finishes it off with a demonstration of his maturity by indulging in a bit of screenshot twitter troll. For the last time, it's not simply down to them being anonymous. It's the fact that they're anonymous and the surrounding situation has cast enough doubt that his reputation alone isn't enough for anyone sensible to take it at face value. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 18:44:14 GMT
No no no, that's just what they want you to believe. The devs are lying to their parent company because reasons. In fact it only sold ten copies and my source bought all of them. I can't tell you who my source is though. If you don't believe me I'll post your avatar on twitter and people are going to stab you up. Bring it on. Being harassed for a Chrono Cross avatar would be child's play in comparison to some of the other things I like. (And a nice change of pace. Variety is the spice of life!) |
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 3, 2017 18:45:14 GMT
Well part of the reason for ME3's Extended cut w3as because people didn't feel there was enough closure to the story so hopefully they'll do the same this time use the DLC to either expand (if they plan on doing an MEA2) which I doubt right now or ti ethe loose ends up then that's all we can ask. Hopefully they wrap things up one way or another though. Because they risk a similar outrage if they do nothing. They never should have mentioned the Quarian Ark in the APEX mission or had us listen to that signal at the end of MEA if they were just going to end it. My Ryder's main story is over. She discovered a lot of things, helped a lot of people, found true love and the best of friends, but you don't add that extra stuff if you are planning to wrap it up in a novel I am not buying. yeah I don't mind it as the Anderson/Saren novel was a perfect lead up to ME1 explaining what happened between Anderson and Saren and why he was so convinced Saren was a true threat not just to humanity but the galaxy as a whole. So as a lead up to something we play through in the game would be perfect. But like you I'd prefer to play the ending than read the ending tbh. The novels are good if you wantto lead up to something or explain why something is happening which is why you do get mentions of them in the games but nothing more but the true conclusions of the story should be in the game and only in the game. |
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jaegerbane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 3, 2017 18:46:37 GMT
That is not true, I've seen plenty of instances where reports have had to be retracted or the claims of anonymous sources went nowhere or were later proven to be false. You sell a story by presenting facts. An anonymous source isn't a fact, as I've already pointed out. An anonymous source saying something is the fact. Reporters actually say very little, if anything at all. I'm sorry suko, I didn't recognise your new account. Carry on. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 18:47:21 GMT
They never should have mentioned the Quarian Ark in the APEX mission or had us listen to that signal at the end of MEA if they were just going to end it. My Ryder's main story is over. She discovered a lot of things, helped a lot of people, found true love and the best of friends, but you don't add that extra stuff if you are planning to wrap it up in a novel I am not buying. yeah I don't mind it as the Anderson/Saren novel was a perfect lead up to ME1 explaining what happened between Anderson and Saren and why he was so convinced Saren was a true threat not just to humanity but the galaxy as a whole. So as a lead up to something we play through in the game would be perfect. But like you I'd prefer to play the ending than read the ending tbh. The novels are good if you wantto lead up to something or explain why something is happening which is why you do get mentions of them in the games but nothing more but the true conclusions of the story should be in the game and only in the game. That's why I think any DLC planned won't come out until the novels, which will bring us to late Fall and is why Melo called DLC "future content" he could not discuss. |
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 3, 2017 18:47:31 GMT
People will put their heads in the sand no matter how many sources. Whatever, I don't care enough to argue. The game is already $20 on sale right now and was not a critical or commercial success. The price of Inquisition dropped pretty fast and quickly after release. That, combined with silence from BioWare, convinced fans that there wasn't going to be a DLC. And there were three. |
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 3, 2017 18:47:49 GMT
I doubt anyone will even hint or reply that they can't talk about it on Twitter, not until after the holidays. The timing of the hoax and trash articles was perfect since no one at BW will be active fully until July 5th. Canada Day became an extra long weekend. The government took Monday off too, and July 4th is tomorrow. Oh. WHAT A COINCIDENCE. Bastards. Those hoaxers can go fuck themselves. yeah it's almost as if they knew exactly when to strrike isn't it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 18:48:43 GMT
People will put their heads in the sand no matter how many sources. Whatever, I don't care enough to argue. The game is already $20 on sale right now and was not a critical or commercial success. The price of Inquisition dropped pretty fast and quickly after release. That, combined with silence from BioWare, convinced fans that there wasn't going to be a DLC. And there were three. Deja vu! (place is stressing me. Heading offline for a bit) |
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 3, 2017 18:48:47 GMT
That is not true, I've seen plenty of instances where reports have had to be retracted or the claims of anonymous sources went nowhere or were later proven to be false. You sell a story by presenting facts. An anonymous source isn't a fact, as I've already pointed out. An anonymous source saying something is the fact. Reporters actually say very little, if anything at all. An anonymous source saying something is a fact isn't a fact. Reporters say quite a bit, especially when they don't quote any sources, anonymous or otherwise. The story obviously becomes the reporter's opinion of what was said, as in this Kotaku story. kotaku.com/sources-bioware-montreal-downsized-mass-effect-put-on-1795100285 |
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Post by rolenka on Jul 3, 2017 18:52:35 GMT
An anonymous source saying something is the fact. Reporters actually say very little, if anything at all. An anonymous source saying something is a fact isn't a fact. Reporters say quite a bit, especially when they don't quote any sources, anonymous or otherwise. The story obviously becomes the reporter's opinion of what was said, as in this Kotaku story. kotaku.com/sources-bioware-montreal-downsized-mass-effect-put-on-1795100285Reporters don't do that. It's called attribution. The phrasing is a little more lax in gaming news, but if you pay attention, the only facts reporters actually state is that someone said something, unless they personally know it is true. Most readers gloss over it, but great pains are taken to write it that way. |
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 3, 2017 18:54:31 GMT
Reporters don't do that. It's called attribution. The phrasing is a little more lax in gaming news, but if you pay attention, the only facts reporters actually state is that someone said something. Most readers gloss over it, but great pains are taken to write it that way. Reporters do do that, I've seen it many times in the four decades I've been alive.  I've seen many examples of when an actual quote or context is presented, the story changes dramatically from the reporter's version of what was said. That's why it's good journalism to provide quotes and verifiable sources along with anonymous sources. |
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Post by kino on Jul 3, 2017 19:09:30 GMT
I'm just going to say there are very legal reasons that BioWare can't do that. It's all about conduct as a publicly traded company and all that blah, blah, blah. I hate it but that's the reality. Revenue recognition rules do not apply to paid DLC. Stop saying this. It is when you promise free updates to paid-for content that you have expanded your "contractual obligation" to the customer. And why in the world would you think that? DLC revenue is recognized in the fiscal quarter it's released, not in the fiscal quarter the main game is released. Th e only time this isn't applicable is in the case of a Season Pass when you pay for all DLC beforehand, then the company must recognize that revenue in the quarter that it's released, which is at the same time as the game. Or, in the words of Mark Darrah regarding DLC... |
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Post by rolenka on Jul 3, 2017 19:12:35 GMT
Reporters don't do that. It's called attribution. The phrasing is a little more lax in gaming news, but if you pay attention, the only facts reporters actually state is that someone said something. Most readers gloss over it, but great pains are taken to write it that way. Reporters do do that, I've seen it many times in the four decades I've been alive. I've seen many examples of when an actual quote or context is presented, the story changes dramatically from the reporter's version of what was said. That's why it's good journalism to provide quotes and verifiable sources along with anonymous sources. Yes, sometimes more information is found, but as long as the report was true to its sources, it is still true. |
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I've seen many examples of when an actual quote or context is presented, the story changes dramatically from the reporter's version of what was said. That's why it's good journalism to provide quotes and verifiable sources along with anonymous sources. 