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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 16:15:10 GMT
So the problem isn't the approach, it's that Bio Montreal writers didn't have the chops to pull it off? To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure. Even if they'd had the best writers money could buy I still don't think the relentlessly light hearted tone would work for me. It wouldn't be so jarring if it was better written but I still think a serious script with moments of humour is better. Also, as has been stated many times, humour is divisive. Relying on it, no matter how well written, to carry a 100hr game involving life and death struggles doesn't seem the best design choice. I've mentioned elsewhere that I'm currently playing DA:I for the first time and finding it absolutely wonderful. Ignore meaningless side quests (find your ram? Find it yourself) and you're golden. Bit of humour here and there to lighten the mood but overall a pretty serious tone, which is fine for a serious situation. What ME:A did was irritate a large amount of fans who did not share their particular sense of humour. This seems to be a bizarre misreading of the reasons behind the popularity of the Citadel DLC. 'Humour works!' rather than 'A well earned chance to blow off steam after three excellent games with a controversial ending that disappointed many'. Still, the amount of humorous lines delivered in the game is somewhat controllable, depending on what lines in what circumstances the player selects for Ryder... and it's not by just going with blanket professional or blanket casual. Sometimes it's the professional line that avoids the humor, sometimes it's the emotional one, and sometimes even the casual one. Logical responses, more often than not, are not humorous. The psych profiles built into this particular game appear to be far more subtle and fairly complex than in the other ME games... which were the realm of clearly binary choices that players complained endlessly about. While the personality of the squad members is not so much controlled by the player, this somewhat reflects reality. In any given group, you may in fact wind up with people who are "irritatingly" cracking jokes all the time. As these games get larger and more and more open, there is bound to be stuff in the game that is there to appeal to some players but just doesn't appeal to other players. That's a pitfall to trying to make a game "open" to all personal tastes. If it bothers you, it can be avoided... admittedly, not completely... but to a degree. Some people did not like the heavy tone of the original ME3 and they were in a similar boat of being able to avoid some of the worst of it, but not all of it. So now the pendulum has just swung to the "other" group for a bit... There is really nothing wrong with Bioware catering to a different sort of player every now and then. It's OK to not like it, but it doesn't make it an "bad design choice" to have utilized it. It's just a choice that doesn't appeal to you and others who share your tastes. It is also a choice that does appeal to some others who happen to have different tastes from you. Even so, squad banter is also, to a degree, controllable - the player can easily cut a lot of it off by driving quickly through the areas that trigger it. The Squad mates who the player finds irritating can frequently just be skipped over when making rounds throughout the ship or in the various ports of call in the game. There are some options for all of us... not perfect options, but options nonetheless.
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Post by abaris on Jul 16, 2017 16:20:32 GMT
and some of the ambient stuff on the Nomad and the Tempest is downright hilarious! There's a distinction to be made between Nomad or ship banter and the whole game being carried by an enforced attempt at humor. You can avoid most of it, apart from a few cutscenes, but if every emotional reply comes back as something outright goofy, you're seriously limited in your reply choices. As has been said, humor is divisive. Not everyone shares that kind of humor. And gallows humor is something entirely different. Try the emergency services sometime and listen to how life and death situations are commented there. Dark humor doesn't even begin to cover it. It's certainly not what the Nomad crew thinks to be humorous, courtesy of the writers.
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Post by OdanUrr on Jul 16, 2017 16:21:20 GMT
This seems to be a bizarre misreading of the reasons behind the popularity of the Citadel DLC. 'Humour works!' rather than ' A well earned chance to blow off steam after three excellent games with a controversial ending that disappointed many'. Just wanted to highlight this. The Citadel DLC worked for me because it was earned. After three games and countless of hours interacting with our companions, I wanted a chance to say goodbye to them. Sure, the plot is a bit dumb, but it is merely an excuse for one last fun get-together. Andromeda tries to replicate this with 'Movie Night' at the very end but it came across as forced (I don't know these characters half as well as I knew Garrus or Liara), it wasn't earned like Citadel.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 16:29:06 GMT
What ME:A did was irritate a large amount of fans who did not share their particular sense of humour. This seems to be a bizarre misreading of the reasons behind the popularity of the Citadel DLC. 'Humour works!' rather than 'A well earned chance to blow off steam after three excellent games with a controversial ending that disappointed many'. Nah, it's nothing but "it's okay when the Citadel DLC does it because I like Citadel, but because I want to whine about Andromeda, I'm going to whine about the exact same thing I praise in Citadel/other games". Also, quit pretending anyone but a handful of selfish people whined about the endings. The same people who wanted the developers to die because ME3 didn't end exactly how they wanted it to are the same people with an obsessive, delusional vendetta against Andromeda.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 16:29:24 GMT
and some of the ambient stuff on the Nomad and the Tempest is downright hilarious! There's a distinction to be made between Nomad or ship banter and the whole game being carried by an enforced attempt at humor. You can avoid most of it, apart from a few cutscenes, but if every emotional reply comes back as something outright goofy, you're seriously limited in your reply choices. As has been said, humor is divisive. Not everyone shares that kind of humor. And gallows humor is something entirely different. Try the emergency services sometime and listen to how life and death situations are commented there. Dark humor doesn't even begin to cover it. It's certainly not what the Nomad crew thinks to be humorous, courtesy of the writers. I can attest first-hand that not "every emotional reply comes back as something outright goofy." Again, this is a exaggerated generalization... predictably and commonly used here by people who don't like the game. There are instances where emotional replies do result in attempts at humor; but there are many instances throughout the game where the selection of an emotional response is exactly the line that avoids an attempt at humor. With so many variable lines of dialogue in a game... it's really only common sense that no one can reasonably make such blanket generalizations about the dialogue.
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Post by duckley on Jul 16, 2017 16:36:14 GMT
Well - to each his/her own I guess - but honestly I didn't notice responses that were completely out of line or out of sync with the emotionalism of the event...It could be due to my general insensitivity,obliviousness, my social awkwardness or the picking the right/wrong response - whatever, it is simply not something that I particularly noticed.....
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Post by Guts on Jul 16, 2017 16:48:48 GMT
I'm curious about something, what's the overall opinion on Smudboy here? Personally I don't like him at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 17:01:35 GMT
I'm curious about something, what's the overall opinion on Smudboy here? Personally I don't like him at all. Much like every other scumbag pandering to the alt-right trolldom who want to feel justified in harassing and threatening video game developers, Smudboy is a lying sack of garbage who knows absolutely nothing about what he whines about.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 17:04:40 GMT
I'm curious about something, what's the overall opinion on Smudboy here? Personally I don't like him at all. He claims to use objective analysis... then opens his plot analysis with an admission that he's not played ME:A and is using YouTube videos. Then he states that of primary importance is to analyze the premise and its shortcomings. There's an expression of a bias right there since, for an objective analysis, he should be analyzing both the pros and cons of the premise with equal importance... not just the shortcomings. He should also not be presuming to be able to objectively analyze the entire plot of a game designed to allow the player to input into that plot in several different ways by just watching some videos made by others without analyzing every one of those "others" whose YouTube videos he's using and accounting for all their different individual preferences and biases. So, for me, the flags are up right there... What he's doing is editorial in nature... and since I'm boycotting editorial gaming media... I simply am not willing to watch any more. Yes, I am currently extremely biased; but you did ask for my opinion... which, by virtue of being an opinion, is always a subjective one.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jul 16, 2017 17:04:46 GMT
I'm curious about something, what's the overall opinion on Smudboy here? Personally I don't like him at all. Much like every other scumbag pandering to the alt-right trolldom who want to feel justified in harassing and threatening video game developers, Smudboy is a lying sack of garbage who knows absolutely nothing about what he whines about.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 16, 2017 17:17:41 GMT
I'm curious about something, what's the overall opinion on Smudboy here? Personally I don't like him at all. He claims to use objective analysis... then opens his plot analysis with an admission that he's not played ME:A and is using YouTube videos then he states that of primary importance it to analyze the premise and its shortcomings. There's an expression of a bias right there since, for an objective analysis, he should be analyzing both the pros and cons of the premise with equal importance... not just the shortcomings. He should also not be presuming to be able to objectively analyze the entire plot of a game designed to allow the player to input into that plot in several different ways by just watching some videos made by others without analyzing every one of those "others" whose YouTube videos he's using and accounting for all their different individual preferences and biases. So, for me, the flags are up right there... What he's doing is editorial in nature... and since I'm boycotting editorial gaming media... I simply am not willing to watch any more. Yes, I am currently extremely biased; but you did ask for my opinion... which, by virtue of being an opinion, is always a subjective one. Wait he actually admitted to not playing me: a but is analyzing it anyway?
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Post by Sondergaard on Jul 16, 2017 17:18:34 GMT
What ME:A did was irritate a large amount of fans who did not share their particular sense of humour. This seems to be a bizarre misreading of the reasons behind the popularity of the Citadel DLC. 'Humour works!' rather than 'A well earned chance to blow off steam after three excellent games with a controversial ending that disappointed many'. Nah, it's nothing but "it's okay when the Citadel DLC does it because I like Citadel, but because I want to whine about Andromeda, I'm going to whine about the exact same thing I praise in Citadel/other games". Also, quit pretending anyone but a handful of selfish people whined about the endings. The same people who wanted the developers to die because ME3 didn't end exactly how they wanted it to are the same people with an obsessive, delusional vendetta against Andromeda. Jesus Christ, will you just fuck off?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 17:20:15 GMT
He claims to use objective analysis... then opens his plot analysis with an admission that he's not played ME:A and is using YouTube videos then he states that of primary importance it to analyze the premise and its shortcomings. There's an expression of a bias right there since, for an objective analysis, he should be analyzing both the pros and cons of the premise with equal importance... not just the shortcomings. He should also not be presuming to be able to objectively analyze the entire plot of a game designed to allow the player to input into that plot in several different ways by just watching some videos made by others without analyzing every one of those "others" whose YouTube videos he's using and accounting for all their different individual preferences and biases. So, for me, the flags are up right there... What he's doing is editorial in nature... and since I'm boycotting editorial gaming media... I simply am not willing to watch any more. Yes, I am currently extremely biased; but you did ask for my opinion... which, by virtue of being an opinion, is always a subjective one. Wait he actually admitted to not playing me: a but is analyzing it anyway? Just go to his YouTube Channel and open the first into video of his playlist on his plot analysis of ME:A. It's right near the beginning. You can hear it for yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 17:21:28 GMT
Well, I'm so sorry for having a problem with a misogynistic and homophobic piece of garbage that encourages other misogynistic and homophobic pieces of garbage to harass people who simply want to enjoy something in peace and the creators who put in a massive amount of time, passion, and effort to make it. I'm betting, what with all of the shitting on the game you do, that you have your own things that you like that you can go back to and have a pleasant conversation with other fans about, without a bunch of losers devoting themselves to being brown smears on the fandom.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 16, 2017 17:23:12 GMT
Wait he actually admitted to not playing me: a but is analyzing it anyway? Just go to his YouTube Channel and open the first into video of his playlist on his plot analysis of ME:A. It's right near the beginning. You can hear it for yourself. Are people so desperate to dislike ME A they're going to praise a YouTuber who admitted to not playing the game and will do a one sided analysis on it?
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Post by smilesja on Jul 16, 2017 17:25:47 GMT
Well, I'm so sorry for having a problem with a misogynistic and homophobic piece of garbage that encourages other misogynistic and homophobic pieces of garbage to harass people who simply want to enjoy something in peace and the creators who put in a massive amount of time, passion, and effort to make it. I'm betting, what with all of the shitting on the game you do, that you have your own things that you like that you can go back to and have a pleasant conversation with other fans about, without a bunch of losers devoting themselves to being brown smears on the fandom. I think you should calm down. I understand why you're fighting with all the ridicule the game and its fans get. But you're not doing yourself any favors right now by becoming those who would mock and ridicule me a and it's fans.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jul 16, 2017 17:27:26 GMT
Well, I'm so sorry for having a problem with a misogynistic and homophobic piece of garbage that encourages other misogynistic and homophobic pieces of garbage to harass people who simply want to enjoy something in peace and the creators who put in a massive amount of time, passion, and effort to make it. I'm betting, what with all of the shitting on the game you do, that you have your own things that you like that you can go back to and have a pleasant conversation with other fans about, without a bunch of losers devoting themselves to being brown smears on the fandom. And so the answer is to offend them in return? Anyway, I criticize Andromeda for its many flaws, that shouldn't stop other people for enjoying it.
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Post by Guts on Jul 16, 2017 17:30:36 GMT
Jesus fucking Christ can we all just calm the fuck down and stop behaving like a bunch of politicians.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 16, 2017 17:32:52 GMT
I'm curious about something, what's the overall opinion on Smudboy here? Personally I don't like him at all. He's awful. He took a genuinely funny format (Cinemasins) but does his with no humor, no critical thinking, and then openly mocks other YouTube creators like (formerly) Mass Effect Follower. Cinemasins has done episodes on some of my favorite films, and I still find those ones hilarious. Smud only attracts those who are already looking for reasons to hate Bioware or Mass Effect. His reasoning is shallow, his points mundane, it's exactly like he blurts out the first thing to come to his mind without wondering if it's true or not. I don't hate many people on the internet. I don't hate Suikoden or Jason S. or missleglitcher or any of the rest of the anti-MEA group. I do honestly hate Smud.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 17:37:48 GMT
I'm curious about something, what's the overall opinion on Smudboy here? Personally I don't like him at all. Excuse me??? If you're going to use language like that, I take back my earlier apology. You were obviously trying to lead this thread into controversial territory and now you're just excalating the whole predictable "fight" that's resulted here with foul language. I'm done here. ETA: Of course, this is the post I meant to quote:
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Post by Guts on Jul 16, 2017 17:39:26 GMT
I'm curious about something, what's the overall opinion on Smudboy here? Personally I don't like him at all. Excuse me??? If you're going to use language like that, I take back my earlier apology. You were obviously trying to lead this thread into controversial territory and now you're just excalating the whole predictable "fight" that's resulted here with foul language. I'm done here. I was just telling everyone to calm down. It wasn't that like that earlier post. It didn't have to do with people opinions, it came down to 2 people arguing with each other. (I'm looking at you fluffy)
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Post by Guts on Jul 16, 2017 17:40:38 GMT
I'm curious about something, what's the overall opinion on Smudboy here? Personally I don't like him at all. He's awful. He took a genuinely funny format (Cinemasins) but does his with no humor, no critical thinking, and then openly mocks other YouTube creators like (formerly) Mass Effect Follower. Cinemasins has done episodes on some of my favorite films, and I still find those ones hilarious. Smud only attracts those who are already looking for reasons to hate Bioware or Mass Effect. His reasoning is shallow, his points mundane, it's exactly like he blurts out the first thing to come to his mind without wondering if it's true or not. I don't hate many people on the internet. I don't hate Suikoden or Jason S. or missleglitcher or any of the rest of the anti-MEA group. I do honestly hate Smud. Another issue I have with him is the fact that he DESPISES other's opinions if they disagree with him. Granted I can be a little opinionated at times, but Smudboy is horrible in this regard.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 16, 2017 17:54:41 GMT
He's awful. He took a genuinely funny format (Cinemasins) but does his with no humor, no critical thinking, and then openly mocks other YouTube creators like (formerly) Mass Effect Follower. Cinemasins has done episodes on some of my favorite films, and I still find those ones hilarious. Smud only attracts those who are already looking for reasons to hate Bioware or Mass Effect. His reasoning is shallow, his points mundane, it's exactly like he blurts out the first thing to come to his mind without wondering if it's true or not. I don't hate many people on the internet. I don't hate Suikoden or Jason S. or missleglitcher or any of the rest of the anti-MEA group. I do honestly hate Smud. Another issue I have with him is the fact that he DESPISES other's opinions if they disagree with him. Granted I can be a little opinionated at times, but Smudboy is horrible in this regard. Completely. I actually got into an argument with him once in a video where he was making fun of one of Mass Effect Followers videos. He could not see why some of the terms he used were insulting to both Follower and his audience, refused to admit even a smidge of wrongdoing. It was one of the worst online arguments I've been in. I'd bring up terms he had used, context, definitions, everything, and he would just go on some tangent about "shills" and SJW's. What a total hack.
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Post by geralt on Jul 16, 2017 17:58:22 GMT
I'm curious about something, what's the overall opinion on Smudboy here? Personally I don't like him at all. I think he's very good, but in more recent times has been taking things a bit too far. By that I mean in terms of going into even the most minute thing or detail, and picking it apart for being wrong or whatnot. He's not been quite the same since that run-in with Clevernoobs. His fundamental points are still correct though, with more care and attention to detail, all the Mass Effect games could have been even better than they were. I totally agree with his idea that for franchises like your Mass Effect, Star Treks, Dragon Age, Star Wars etc of this world, you need a small team that know the specific universe inside and out. Be it on how the tech works, what's been done in the past, or to just keep things simply consistent within in game lore/codex/dialogue, I think it would have helped, a lot. (Especially for Andromeda.)
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Post by Guts on Jul 16, 2017 17:59:06 GMT
Another issue I have with him is the fact that he DESPISES other's opinions if they disagree with him. Granted I can be a little opinionated at times, but Smudboy is horrible in this regard. Completely. I actually got into an argument with him once in a video where he was making fun of one of Mass Effect Followers videos. He could not see why some of the terms he used were insulting to both Follower and his audience, refused to admit even a smidge of wrongdoing. It was one of the worst online arguments I've been in. I'd bring up terms he had used, context, definitions, everything, and he would just go on some tangent about "shills" and SJW's. What a total hack. So anyways, the general vibe on BSN boards is that Smudboy is a opinionated, egotistical, pretentious jerk.
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