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Post by Shinobu on Jul 17, 2017 3:07:35 GMT
It looks like Bioware is trying to regain some momentum now that Patch 1.09 has dropped, possibly in advance of a DLC announcement. (Hey, I can hope! ) Like them, I really want MEA to be a success so that MEA2 can get greenlit. The best way for that to happen is for MEA to have "legs" (continued sales in the long term after the hype -- and anti-hype -- have calmed down). Back on the old BSN AutumnWitch started a thread talking about how Bioware could easily market to women, because many of us had been unaware that we could choose to play as a female protagonist in Bioware games and so hadn't picked them up until years after release. Allan Schumacher was kind enough to listen and the Female Inquisitor got added to the description of DAI on Amazon. (A mention that Shepard's gender could be customized was also added to the listing of ME2.) While I can't claim a cause and effect relationship, DAI subsequently outperformed other western RPGs with women (48% of DAI players were female vs. the average of 26%) and was Bioware's most successful launch. Source: quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/www.inquisitr.com/1796388/dragon-age-inquisition-sold-more-copies-at-launch-than-any-other-bioware-game-including-mass-effect/So, looking at the descriptions of MEA on Origin and Amazon, the ability to customize gender is once again not mentioned. Why? It's not difficult to write "Play as Scott or Sara Ryder, the Pathfinder who will lead the Initiative's colonizing effort in Andromeda." To top it off, the splash pictures are all of Scott. It's nice that the Sara trailer is near the top, but not everyone is going to watch trailers. It should be cheap for Bioware to make a few tweaks to the descriptions so it is clear that players can play as a male or female PC. We don't need more fancy trailers made, just easily accessible information on a core feature. The current description: Play as the Pathfinder - a leader of a squad of military-trained explorers - with deep progression and customization systems. Create your ultimate hero A Pathfinder is part explorer, part warrior and all hero. Choose everything from appearance to powers and tech to give your Pathfinder the tools they need. I suggest: Play as Scott or Sara Ryder, the Pathfinder - a leader of a squad of military-trained explorers - with deep progression and customization systems. Create your ultimate hero A Pathfinder is part explorer, part warrior and all hero. Choose everything from appearance to powers and tech to give your Pathfinder the tools he or she needs. And please, I don't want to recapitulate the whole thread, so I would very much appreciate it if people did not reply "well, if you were a real gamer you would know that gender customization is a feature of Bioware games without being told." The point is not to market to people already in the know, but to make the information accessible to the cursory glance. EDIT: This is the corrected version of the ME2 Amazon page that does a good job of letting players know that gender can be customized. More of this, please! www.amazon.com/Mass-Effect-2-Platinum-Hits/dp/B001TORSII/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1500419730&sr=8-2&keywords=mass%2Beffect%2B2&th=1
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jul 17, 2017 3:14:12 GMT
I dunno, DAI had more hype, looked amazing, and was basically a new generation launch game. That sold it. MEA's marketing just sucked.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 17, 2017 3:20:16 GMT
It looks like Bioware is trying to regain some momentum now that Patch 1.09 has dropped, possibly in advance of a DLC announcement. (Hey, I can hope! ) Like them, I really want MEA to be a success so that MEA2 can get greenlit. The best way for that to happen is for MEA to have "legs" (continued sales in the long term after the hype -- and anti-hype -- have calmed down). Back on the old BSN AutumnWitch started a thread talking about how Bioware could easily market to women, because many of us had been unaware that we could choose to play as a female protagonist in Bioware games and so hadn't picked them up until years after release. Allan Schumacher was kind enough to listen and the Female Inquisitor got added to the description of DAI on Amazon. (A mention that Shepard's gender could be customized was also added to the listing of ME2.) While I can't claim a cause and effect relationship, DAI subsequently outperformed other western RPGs with women ( 48% of DAI players were female vs. the average of 26%) and was Bioware's most successful launch. Source: quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/www.inquisitr.com/1796388/dragon-age-inquisition-sold-more-copies-at-launch-than-any-other-bioware-game-including-mass-effect/So, looking at the descriptions of MEA on Origin and Amazon, the ability to customize gender is once again not mentioned. Why? It's not difficult to write "Play as Scott or Sara Ryder, the Pathfinder who will lead the Initiative's colonizing effort in Andromeda." To top it off, the splash pictures are all of Scott. It's nice that the Sara trailer is near the top, but not everyone is going to watch trailers. It should be cheap for Bioware to make a few tweaks to the descriptions so it is clear that players can play as a male or female PC. We don't need more fancy trailers made, just easily accessible information on a core feature. The current description: Play as the Pathfinder - a leader of a squad of military-trained explorers - with deep progression and customization systems. Create your ultimate hero A Pathfinder is part explorer, part warrior and all hero. Choose everything from appearance to powers and tech to give your Pathfinder the tools they need. I suggest: Play as Scott or Sara Ryder, the Pathfinder - a leader of a squad of military-trained explorers - with deep progression and customization systems. Create your ultimate hero A Pathfinder is part explorer, part warrior and all hero. Choose everything from appearance to powers and tech to give your Pathfinder the tools he or she needs. And please, I don't want to recapitulate the whole thread, so I would very much appreciate it if people did not reply "well, if you were a real gamer you would know that gender customization is a feature of Bioware games without being told." The point is not to market to people already in the know, but to make the information accessible to the cursory glance. Not sure how much stock I'd put into that result as it's based on 270k gamers taking a 5 minute survey... And who knows how many of those gamers were DA:I players. Would be more beneficial to first conduct a survey... which determines the percentages of m/w that bother taking 5-minute surveys.
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Post by kino on Jul 17, 2017 3:21:33 GMT
I agree. Making it apparent that the Pathfinder can be either Sara or Scott should be a part of the marketing description. It's a small thing, but something that could draw in people who believe that the Pathfinder is just another dude in a video game.
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Post by fchopin on Jul 17, 2017 3:22:47 GMT
Yes i agree, they should always say clearly that you can play male or female in the games.
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Post by Shinobu on Jul 17, 2017 3:28:23 GMT
Not sure how much stock I'd put into that result as it's based on 270k gamers taking a 5 minute survey... And who knows how many of those gamers were DA:I players. Would be more beneficial to first conduct a survey... which determines the percentages of m/w that bother taking 5-minute surveys. 270K is a pretty good number, though you're right that the % of the 270k who mentioned RPGs isn't stated.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 17, 2017 3:37:42 GMT
The trailers showed both male and female Ryders. Not sure how much more explicit you can be about it. Wasn't that also true of ME? (Honestly, at the time ME came out, I was only peripherally aware of it and only recall male Shepard.)
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Post by Shinobu on Jul 17, 2017 3:44:20 GMT
I dunno, DAI had more hype, looked amazing, and was basically a new generation launch game. That sold it. MEA's marketing just sucked. It's been a while since DAI came out, so I can't remember the marketing well, except that they shied away from having an "iconic" hero like Sheploo or MHawke. I found that odd, because the Inquisitor didn't stand out in the marketing as the protagonist at all. In one trailer they showed Cullen and the Inquisitor making out on his desk and I remembered thinking "how will people know which one of them is the player character?" Rather than having an anonymous protagonist I prefer the route taken by FO4, where the male and female vault dweller were interchanged during the trailer but recognizeable as the protagonist because of the jumpsuit.
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Post by Shinobu on Jul 17, 2017 3:47:56 GMT
The trailers showed both male and female Ryders. Not sure how much more explicit you can be about it. Wasn't that also true of ME? (Honestly, at the time ME came out, I was only peripherally aware of it and only recall male Shepard.) Most people who aren't hardcore gamers don't watch trailers or gameplay. They read the description on the website (or the box back in the day). Bioware did a fairly good job of showing Sara in trailers and gameplay, so why should they shy away from putting her in the description of the game on Origin? It wasn't really true of ME. FemShep got a trailer for ME3, but IIRC it wasn't shown on TV. Until we brought it up on the BSN none of the Amazon listings for ME games had a hint that one could play as a female protagonist.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 3:48:23 GMT
However, OP, the change you're proposing is misleading in that you don't have to play as either Scott or Sara since you can give your Ryder any first name you please.
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Post by Shinobu on Jul 17, 2017 3:53:05 GMT
However, OP, the change you're proposing is misleading in that you don't have to play as either Scott or Sara since you can give your Ryder any first name you please. Well, Bioware has professional writers who can sort out how to convey the information. I think fewer people would balk at buying a game if they were under the mistaken impression that they couldn't change the PC's first name anyway.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 17, 2017 3:59:12 GMT
I agree, OP. It seems like a very simple change to make to the marketing. This doesn't have to be based on DAI sales or anything. Whether the survey was correct or misleading is kind of a moot point. As to Redux's point, you could simply say "Play as Sara, Scott, or your own custom Ryder!" or something like that. I'm not in marketing, OK?! And yes, Sara was in some of the promotional material, but her official trailer didn't come out until after launch, and for people not watching the VGA's or whatever, they would totally miss the female protagonist part. Not saying that Bioware hides that fact or anything, but they could do a better job pushing it to the front. I think the reason they didn't this time wasn't political, but just that for whatever reason Scott's face ended up better than Sara's. Not sure why that is, but I don't really believe the whole "SJW's made Bioware women ugly because of Feminism" conspiracy. All in all, OP makes a good point. If not for increasing sales, making the fact that you can play as a female better known is just a smart thing to do.
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Post by dragontartare on Jul 17, 2017 4:08:51 GMT
I think this is a good idea. Since I've gotten more into RPGs, one of the first things I check for is whether I can play the game with a female protagonist. The quickest way to check this is to just read the description. Not that every protagonist I play has to be female, but it's a plus for a game when it allows me to play as my own gender if I choose to do so. I agree, it seems like a relatively cheap fix and I'm not sure why they wouldn't have done so from the beginning.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jul 17, 2017 4:19:39 GMT
The trailers showed both male and female Ryders. Not sure how much more explicit you can be about it. Wasn't that also true of ME? (Honestly, at the time ME came out, I was only peripherally aware of it and only recall male Shepard.) Most people who aren't hardcore gamers don't watch trailers or gameplay. They read the description on the website (or the box back in the day). Bioware did a fairly good job of showing Sara in trailers and gameplay, so why should they shy away from putting her in the description of the game on Origin? It wasn't really true of ME. FemShep got a trailer for ME3, but IIRC it wasn't shown on TV. Until we brought it up on the BSN none of the Amazon listings for ME games had a hint that one could play as a female protagonist. That's a bad assumption. The descriptions are for us, ha. Why do you think BioWare released the new Batarian's origin in their blog instead of where they can get a wider reach? The trailers are the mainstream thing, if it looks good, people will buy it. MEA barely had that. And why BioWare chooses more often than not the male counterpart in their marketing campaign? Cause that's the majority of gamers, even DAI had more male Inquisitors than the rest. BioWare's audience is already there, it will get bigger whenever they produce the next Mass Effect 2 quality game again, and that includes all sorts of people.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 4:21:10 GMT
However, OP, the change you're proposing is misleading in that you don't have to play as either Scott or Sara since you can give your Ryder any first name you please. Well, Bioware has professional writers who can sort out how to convey the information. I think fewer people would balk at buying a game if they were under the mistaken impression that they couldn't change the PC's first name anyway. I suspect though that the reason they went with a genderless and nameless description is specifically because you can play as either gender and any name.
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Post by Shinobu on Jul 17, 2017 4:32:49 GMT
Well, Bioware has professional writers who can sort out how to convey the information. I think fewer people would balk at buying a game if they were under the mistaken impression that they couldn't change the PC's first name anyway. I suspect though that the reason they went with a genderless and nameless description is specifically because you can play as either gender and any name. I don't doubt that, but using "they" as a singular pronoun doesn't convey the information explicitly. It would be better to come out and say "male or female protagonist" because when gender isn't stated and the pictures show a dude most people are going to mistakenly assume a male only protagonist.
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 17, 2017 4:46:10 GMT
The trailers showed both male and female Ryders. Not sure how much more explicit you can be about it. Wasn't that also true of ME? (Honestly, at the time ME came out, I was only peripherally aware of it and only recall male Shepard.) I actually didn't know you could play as female Shepard until ME2 came out. I don't remember a single promo that featured a female Shepard. I just remember seeing a dude with close-cropped hair. I'm sure it was noted in reviews,but since I don't read reviews of games I'm not planning on playing, I didn't have any idea.
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Post by Shinobu on Jul 17, 2017 5:17:16 GMT
The trailers showed both male and female Ryders. Not sure how much more explicit you can be about it. Wasn't that also true of ME? (Honestly, at the time ME came out, I was only peripherally aware of it and only recall male Shepard.) I actually didn't know you could play as female Shepard until ME2 came out. I don't remember a single promo that featured a female Shepard. I just remember seeing a dude with close-cropped hair. I'm sure it was noted in reviews,but since I don't read reviews of games I'm not planning on playing, I didn't have any idea. There weren't any promos with FemShep until ME3, which gave us the Reinstated trailer and FemShep Launch trailer (neither of which were TV spots, IIRC, just shown at cons and on the web) and the reversible cover that was produced with the Sheploo side out. I didn't know you could play as a female protagonist in Bioware games until I bought DAO for my husband and played it when he never got around to it. Then I was jonesing for more RPG goodness and decided to research ME2, which I previously wasn't interested in because it had Sheploo on the cover and was marketed as "a shooter with RPG elements." Even now on Origin ME2 and DAO don't say that you can play as a female protagonist.
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Post by Guts on Jul 17, 2017 5:45:45 GMT
I dunno, DAI had more hype, looked amazing, and was basically a new generation launch game. That sold it. MEA's marketing just sucked. Agreed on the marketing for Andromeda. I haven't played DA:I but truth be told I thought it look like everything was smeared with vaseline.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Jul 17, 2017 5:58:30 GMT
Knowing I can customize my character and having options for gender and look is one of the things that helps me enjoy a video game.
It's certainly a selling point... Since I usually avoid games with set protagonists. Gaming time is precious and life's too short to spend it all gaming, to boot. It's a minor element, but it adds disproportionately to my enjoyment. S'just how it is for me.
So yeah, a customization trailer and emphasis on freedom to create the character who interacts with the world would be a plus for me. That being said, I'm not entirely convinced there's that many gamers in the same wagon as me. It probably wouldn't hurt, though.
Also, agreed on Andromeda's marketing being absolutely gawd-awful.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jul 17, 2017 6:37:54 GMT
I dunno, DAI had more hype, looked amazing, and was basically a new generation launch game. That sold it. MEA's marketing just sucked. Absolutely. It failed to generate hype and failed to stop the hate train. As a matter of fact, they worked with the hate train serving up the embargo and 10-hour trial. Lesson learned. I hope.
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Post by thelonelypoet on Jul 17, 2017 6:40:29 GMT
Yes, this should be absolutely mentioned. There are so few AAA standard games where you can create your character from the beginning. "Play a hero..." every cover says that.
As a quite a heavy gamer myself I still didn't know I can play as female Shepard when I first picked up the copy of ME1 & 2 from the store. The cover looked also overall basic pew-pew game that thank god my roommate started it, I saw the character creation and was hooked right away.
OP is right.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 17, 2017 6:56:52 GMT
I dunno, DAI had more hype, looked amazing, and was basically a new generation launch game. That sold it. MEA's marketing just sucked. No. DAI had TONS and tons of flak at launch, and long after. Everyone just neglects saying this to make their 'MEA sucks' point. That said, It was a good game though
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Jul 17, 2017 7:22:51 GMT
I can tell you this much - realizing I could play as a woman was what tipped the scales in favor of Dragon Age: Origins, and rest is Bioware-obsessed history.
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Post by bakgrind on Jul 17, 2017 7:41:16 GMT
I dunno, DAI had more hype, looked amazing, and was basically a new generation launch game. That sold it. MEA's marketing just sucked. No. DAI had TONS and tons of flak at launch, and long after. Everyone just neglects saying this to make their 'MEA sucks' point. That said, It was a good game though Both of your statements are true. DAI did have a better marketing strategy than Andromeda .It also launched with a lot of bugs as well. I think the difference is that DAI was a title that the fans of the series could not wait to get their hands on. Where as Andromdema was not. From the on set of pre development there were a lot of people who were on the fence about where the series should go. Some wanted it to end with ME 3 while others like myself felt that Mass Effect is a great series and should continue. The developers of DAI actually had a lot to say to the fans and press during it's development cycle which also included little pieces of alpha game play. Andromeda's approach was to run silent, run deep. And did not really release anything tangible information concerning game play, story and features until the last year of the development cycle.
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