A cheap and easy way for Bioware to attract new customers

While I do see what you're saying, the fact is that several people have stated they didn't realize that Shepard (for example) could be female, so it wasn't as obvious to everyone as it is to you. I believe the entire point of the OP was that gamers who don't have much experience with BW games (and thus don't have much experience with character customization) might need it more explicitly stated that customization includes customizing gender.

As for RPGs that don't allow you to customize gender, I don't know, since I haven't played too many outside of BW games. I'm just pointing out that it clearly wasn't obvious to everyone. Making this fact explicit in the description of the game isn't going to hurt anything. 


Edit: I quoted you before you added the last paragraph. I didn't leave it off on purpose. 

This is common for Goodwill. If they can't sell it on clearance, whether it be scarves, hats, shoes, or yes, video games, they wind up at Goodwill. This is also not the only video game (nor will it be the last) that ends up brand new and on Goodwill's shelves.

At the time of the original thread, the Amazon listing said that the ME squadmates were customizeable, but that didn't mean that I could make Kaidan a woman. The problem is that what character customization means to you or me doesn't matter if the company doesn't feel the same way. If the description is too vague for me to know whether I'm getting a feature I want, I'm not going to pay $60 on the off chance their view of customizable and mine are the same.

The current ME2 listing on Amazon has been fixed and it's clear that Shepard is gender customizable. That's what I want for MEA. It's not advertising focused at women, but because it says Shepard can be any gender, women who find that feature appealing will know about it and be more likely to buy the game.

www.amazon.com/Mass-Effect-2-Platinum-Hits/dp/B001TORSII/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1500419730&sr=8-2&keywords=mass%2Beffect%2B2&th=1

"The player has the ability to customize their Commander Shepard in a number of ways including physical appearance, gender, and certain aspects of their personal history, with the rub being that these choices can influence things like available missions, dialogue choices with non-player characters (NPCs), and character background. "

Game descriptions like the above should be standard.

Obfuscation means to make something unclear, which I did not do. The archaic definition merely serves to explain why the term "pandering" has negative connotations even today. By accusing someone of "pandering" you are accusing them of doing something unsavory. Giving people information they want and need to make informed buying decisions is not unsavory and therefore it's not pandering.

You argue via sleight of word. I'm done here.

The problem that I had with it is that it is not realistic. No one who is working stands like that. It seems that it's an aesthetic choice and makes her look decorative rather than functional. The male's pose is boring but resolute -- he looks ready for action. The female's pose looks like it is designed to make her silhouette fit the curve of his body (even if she has to contort herself awkwardly to do it) and not because it is useful to her to stand that way. I think it was meant to be sexy but instead it looks like she is farting at him.

That's fair...i see your point....keep everything balanced, but eh i still think you are reaching a bit with that. If the roles was reversed, i guess i still wouldn't have an issue with the male Ryder checking his omni-tool and Sara standing at the ready with her backside showing (i definitely wouldn't have an issue with that.. )....in that scenario it could be looked as if he is getting information and she is watching his back.....in some scenarios i just feel we don't need to put everything under the microscope when the pic was probably just an early promotion for the game....BUT again i see your point....

For me initially looking at that promo...i would think you are just a couple of random characters that are involved in Andromeda...there is really no focus on the characters faces as it's dark and the overall armor is darkened...later on they keyed in both Ryders, but that pic to me felt like you was going to be random characters that you would actually create outside of the character actually being or developing into the Ryders...

I think checking the omni-tool is perfectly fine. The issue is the way her hip and butt are jutting out. It looks unnatural, and is either a poorly-drawn rendition of Sara putting her weight on one leg (which would make the hip jutt out some to one side, but not that way), or it was posed purposely to make her look "sexy," while Scott gets to look competent. I wouldn't mind seeing a sexy Scott ( ) but I would prefer to play a competent protagonist. I agree with you that neither of them looks much like a main character in that shot.

The comparison is useless. The idea of customization is not an absolute. What the hell is a "squadmate" outside BioWare games? It's a very limited precedent whose definition has never included fundamentally changing the character. At best you can change what they're wearing. And of course the idea of changing the character to that extent is ludicrous. They're glorified NPCs. A PC on the other hand is fundamentally implied to be under your control as to their definition (to varying extents from a story perspective, sure, but not for such basic things as what they've got between their legs).

It's not about what customization means to me, or anyone else. It's about a basic function of role playing games that's been around since their inception. You could even argue that unless they tell you the opposite, that you're playing a set protagonist (like in the Witcher for example), that level of customization is already implied in the medium, if it's a full RPG. On the other hand, you have so many hybrid models these days and games which merely have "RPG elements" that can be a bit of a stretch. But saying something like "customizable protagonist" pretty much seals the deal. By definition. Again, give me an example of a single player RPG that says it has a customizable protagonist where you can't change their sex.

Whether or not people should know that "customizable character" means they can gender swap does not mean that they could not gain additional players by making that function super duper obvious. Listening to podcasts like "What's Good Games", an all-female cast, you learn that the ability to play as a female can be very important to women (and others) and that knowing they can is a big selling point for games. Having the Sara trailer launch weeks after game launch was bad for this type of publicity. It's a simple change that, while some feel it is unnecessary, could make a difference while costing literally no additional money.

Any variable subset of consumers could potentially be enticed to buy the game (or any product) based on any feature, whether by design or accidental. Shall we start listing them all? Clearly, that would be ridiculous and unfeasible. So which do you list? I would think unique features, something your game does that no other currently does would have priority over something that's true and implied by definition. If I want to advertise my FPS, I wouldn't include "shoot enemies in the head from a first person perspective" in my description.

Taking the consumer attention span in mind is also important. Cost doesn't just mean money. Including a "well, duh" feature in your ad is space you could've used to include something else. So again, priorities.

Anecdotal.

I'm glad you brought up Dishonored 2 though, one because I love that game, and two because I was wondering if someone would, despite the fact that it's an entirely different thing altogether.

Dishonored 2 doesn't have a customizable protagonist. Dishonored 2 has dual protagonists. That is not a common feature in games, nor is it part of a definition for a genre of games. In other words it's a (all together now) unique selling point.

Dishonored 2 was not marketed as "play as a man or woman", it was marketed as "play as Corvo or Emily, two different characters with different powers, responses and styles of play"

From Steam:
The devs always envisioned it as Emily's story, and the decision to include Corvo came later. They didn't set out to tick any boxes (or go out of their way to point out that they did), they envisioned a story, they made a game and went to market with it. And apart from bugs at launch (which seems to be a disturbingly common norm these days) it was excellent.

To apply what you're asking for to Dishonored 2 would be to say something like "they should totally include the Shadow Walk power in the description! I love turning into a smoke monster and would definitely buy any game that lets me do that!" I mean, yeah, it's true it would help you (and people who are fans of turning into shadow monsters) make that decision to buy. But is that really feasible from the company's perspective? Not really.

Wanna know how I got into Dishonored? Dicking around in G-Mod one day I downloaded a Blink swep that emulated that power from the game. And I thought, well I love me some teleporting and playing with this in G-Mod is pretty fun. Might as well check out the game. Now, should I insist all future Dishonored games explicitly include Blinking in their game descriptions? Surely not. And note I specified "game descriptions" (which is what this thread is about). But that's not the only (or even the most effective) marketing tool, is it? You have trailers and demos and reviews and word of mouth. Sure maybe Mass Effect doesn't explicitly say you can play as female on its Amazon page, or Steam or Origin or whatever. But who doesn't know that by now, through endless gameplay videos, reviews, trailers, stills etc? Starving children in Africa probably know of FemShep. She's a few steps below Batman and Spiderman's origin stories. I applaud their decision to include the female PC in trailers, and yeah they need to do more of that, any RPG with customizable characters does. But this thread here? Mountain out of a molehill, from where I sit, especially if someone argues something different.