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Post by Monica21 on Jul 18, 2017 15:29:14 GMT
Marketing to men would lead to shrieks of "sexism" from the usual suspects. A glaring double standard, imo. Marketing to men is already the default for almost all industries.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 15:33:22 GMT
Marketing to men would lead to shrieks of "sexism" from the usual suspects. A glaring double standard, imo. Marketing to men is already the default for almost all industries. Only in products geared toward males. Just as products geared towards women are marketed to women. Products geared towards everyone are marketed as such.
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Monica21
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 18, 2017 15:41:34 GMT
Marketing to men is already the default for almost all industries. Only in products geared toward males. Just as products geared towards women are marketed to women. Products geared towards everyone are marketed as such. Feminine hygiene products are marketed to females. Victoria's Secret is marketing to females in the sense that "hey, your SO will think you look great in this." It's definitely not, "these are super comfortable bras."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 15:44:54 GMT
Only in products geared toward males. Just as products geared towards women are marketed to women. Products geared towards everyone are marketed as such. Feminine hygiene products are marketed to females. Victoria's Secret is marketing to females in the sense that "hey, your SO will think you look great in this." It's definitely not, "these are super comfortable bras." My GF actually refuses to by anything else but VS bras because nothing else is as comfortable... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 18, 2017 15:48:19 GMT
My GF actually refuses to by anything else but VS bras because nothing else is as comfortable... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I agree that they are comfortable, but we're talking about marketing. I think we were specifically talking about Andromeda's marketing. But if you want to tell us all more about your girlfriend's undergarments that's probably better suited to a different forum, and possibly you might want to make sure it's okay with her.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 15:52:25 GMT
My GF actually refuses to by anything else but VS bras because nothing else is as comfortable... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I agree that they are comfortable, but we're talking about marketing. I think we were specifically talking about Andromeda's marketing. But if you want to tell us all more about your girlfriend's undergarments that's probably better suited to a different forum, and possibly you might want to make sure it's okay with her. Lol. I was only making a point. My main point in all of this that seems to have gotten lost in the process was that marketing ME:A to women specifically would not be as effective as marketing it towards gamers in general. I would bet good money that most women don't have a clue what a "Mass Effect" even is. Sure, market the fact that you can have a customizable protagonist, but don't go sa far as to exclusively market to women and ignore the other half of your target audience.
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 18, 2017 15:57:45 GMT
My main point in all of this that seems to have gotten lost in the process was that marketing ME:A to women specifically would not be as effective as marketing it towards gamers in general. I would bet good money that most women don't have a clue what a "Mass Effect" even is. Sure, market the fact that you can have a customizable protagonist, but don't go sa far as to exclusively market to women and ignore the other half of your target audience. The entire point of my second post was that you don't have to market to women specifically. You need to market to female gamers. How you market to those women is what matters. I even had pictures. It's an easy post to understand.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 15:58:44 GMT
My main point in all of this that seems to have gotten lost in the process was that marketing ME:A to women specifically would not be as effective as marketing it towards gamers in general. I would bet good money that most women don't have a clue what a "Mass Effect" even is. Sure, market the fact that you can have a customizable protagonist, but don't go sa far as to exclusively market to women and ignore the other half of your target audience. The entire point of my second post was that you don't have to market to women specifically. You need to market to female gamers. How you market to those women is what matters. I even had pictures. It's an easy post to understand. I didn't read your post specifically, just the OP. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by dragontartare on Jul 18, 2017 16:43:22 GMT
The entire point of my second post was that you don't have to market to women specifically. You need to market to female gamers. How you market to those women is what matters. I even had pictures. It's an easy post to understand. I didn't read your post specifically, just the OP. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But even the OP didn't suggest marketing to only women and ignoring men. I have no idea where you're getting this.
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Post by vonuber on Jul 18, 2017 17:43:54 GMT
I didn't read your post specifically, just the OP. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But even the OP didn't suggest marketing to only women and ignoring men. I have no idea where you're getting this. Eh, he thinks gamergate is a crusade for ethical journalism and nothing to do with women; which is clearly demonstrated by the raising of the spectre of only marketing to that strange species when no-one has suggested it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 18:03:58 GMT
I didn't read your post specifically, just the OP. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But even the OP didn't suggest marketing to only women and ignoring men. I have no idea where you're getting this. "Bioware could easily market to women"That would be the line.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 18, 2017 18:31:12 GMT
Friendly reminder to stay on topic and keep things not of this thread (politics, old beef) out of it.
-------------
To the topic, it got me thinking about why I bought ME1 and 2. And I'm having a hard time remembering. ASteamDealDidIt?
But I do remember seeing it had character customization, which I pretty much took to mean "play a dude or chick and customize what they look like". And this was at a time when I hadn't touched RPGs at all, short of a brief stint playing Oblivion on a public computer. Oh, I had also played Jedi Academy a few years before, and that had customizable PCs, despite not being an RPG.
Does "customizable character" not imply customizing sex, since that's one of the biggest customizations you can make to a character?
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Post by dragontartare on Jul 18, 2017 18:44:03 GMT
But even the OP didn't suggest marketing to only women and ignoring men. I have no idea where you're getting this. "Bioware could easily market to women"That would be the line. But did you read the entire post? This line says nothing at all about excluding men. And the suggested description by the OP, quoted here: ...also does not in any way suggest excluding men or not marketing to men. Friendly reminder to stay on topic and keep things not of this thread (politics, old beef) out of it. ------------- To the topic, it got me thinking about why I bought ME1 and 2. And I'm having a hard time remembering. ASteamDealDidIt? But I do remember seeing it had character customization, which I pretty much took to mean "play a dude or chick and customize what they look like". And this was at a time when I hadn't touched RPGs at all, short of a brief stint playing Oblivion on a public computer. Oh, I had also played Jedi Academy a few years before, and that had customizable PCs, despite not being an RPG. Does "customizable character" not imply customizing sex, since that's one of the biggest customizations you can make to a character? Did you not read all the posts from people saying that no, they did not realize they could customize the protagonist's gender? I personally read part of the wikipedia entries for these games (and all RPGs) in order to find out whether I can customize my protagonist, including gender, as I was deciding which games to buy. I mean, when I first bought DAO, I kind of figured that I'd get to choose some things about my character since I'd played NWN years before, but I still had to search a bit for the information to make sure. I don't see how it could possibly be harmful to make sure the game's official description is clear about this.
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Jul 18, 2017 18:50:46 GMT
But even the OP didn't suggest marketing to only women and ignoring men. I have no idea where you're getting this. Eh, he thinks gamergate is a crusade for ethical journalism and nothing to do with women; which is clearly demonstrated by the raising of the spectre of only marketing to that strange species when no-one has suggested it. wew
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Post by fiannawolf on Jul 18, 2017 19:02:31 GMT
You're not gonna attract new customers at this point. Especially when you can find a whole pallet of ME:a at a goodwill. How does goodwill get that many copies of a game? Did someone from Gamestop just chuck it? Or was it an indie seller???
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 19:04:59 GMT
Eh, he thinks gamergate is a crusade for ethical journalism and nothing to do with women; which is clearly demonstrated by the raising of the spectre of only marketing to that strange species when no-one has suggested it. wew "You aren't allowed to think differently from me" in a nutshell.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 18, 2017 19:09:48 GMT
But even the OP didn't suggest marketing to only women and ignoring men. I have no idea where you're getting this. Eh, he thinks gamergate is a crusade for ethical journalism and nothing to do with women; which is clearly demonstrated by the raising of the spectre of only marketing to that strange species when no-one has suggested it. What?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 19:10:38 GMT
Eh, he thinks gamergate is a crusade for ethical journalism and nothing to do with women; which is clearly demonstrated by the raising of the spectre of only marketing to that strange species when no-one has suggested it. What? Marxist thought policing.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 18, 2017 19:13:03 GMT
I wonder if there's a game that features an all male cast would people complain today?
(Yes I'm aware there's games with an all male cast.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 19:22:32 GMT
"Bioware could easily market to women"That would be the line. But did you read the entire post? This line says nothing at all about excluding men. And the suggested description by the OP, quoted here: ...also does not in any way suggest excluding men or not marketing to men. I've made my points quite clear.
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Post by dragontartare on Jul 18, 2017 19:44:09 GMT
I wonder if there's a game that features an all male cast would people complain today? (Yes I'm aware there's games with an all male cast.) What point are you trying to make here? The OP simply suggested that the descriptions of games (MEA specifically, but presumably future games as well) should be more explicit about the fact that you can customize your protagonist's gender, thinking this could cast a wider marketing net and expand the fanbase. The only one here who brought up excluding men is Quarantine. But did you read the entire post? This line says nothing at all about excluding men. And the suggested description by the OP, quoted here: ...also does not in any way suggest excluding men or not marketing to men. I've made my points quite clear. You didn't though, and I've read this whole thread. But that's fine. We can just agree to disagree. I doubt we're going to get anywhere with this.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 19:45:50 GMT
I've made my points quite clear. You didn't though, and I've read this whole thread. But that's fine. We can just agree to disagree. I doubt we're going to get anywhere with this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 18, 2017 19:46:13 GMT
(sigh) need to interrupt my drinking to do some 'tidying up'... EDIT: Actually, maybe it's settled. Good. Back to the drinking.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 18, 2017 19:49:30 GMT
Yeah, it seems I was too subtle earlier.
There will be no devolvement into personal attacks due to past disagreements, or anything else. Please stay on topic or thread will be locked.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 18, 2017 20:00:37 GMT
Did you not read all the posts from people saying that no, they did not realize they could customize the protagonist's gender? I personally read part of the wikipedia entries for these games (and all RPGs) in order to find out whether I can customize my protagonist, including gender, as I was deciding which games to buy. I mean, when I first bought DAO, I kind of figured that I'd get to choose some things about my character since I'd played NWN years before, but I still had to search a bit for the information to make sure. I don't see how it could possibly be harmful to make sure the game's official description is clear about this. I did indeed. Which is why I posted my skepticism. To me, character customization includes choosing the sex of the character implictly and irrevocably, and it did long before I had any relevant RPG experience to speak of. Can you think of a single player game with fully customizable PCs that doesn't have this option? I don't mean only customizing their costume/accessories, which is more the realm of multiplayer anyway. Any game I can think of that has a character creator has you pick whether you're playing as male or female. It's as much a part of the process as picking hair style, or eye color. I will agree that the description in the OP is a little vague in that respect. "Customization systems" could be anything. If they called the Pathfinder a fully customizable hero, leader of the expedition etc etc. that'd be much clearer.
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