Croatsky
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Post by Croatsky on Jul 17, 2017 20:46:09 GMT
Looked at author. Immediately grew suspicious. Got to the "then the hilarity came to an abrupt end: that segment of the game community which revenges itself upon anyone who is even perceived to have slighted them, developed a conspiracy about Andromeda’s animations and, of course, found a woman to blame" part, had a laugh, and closed the tab. No thanks, I'm not gonna read anti-gamer propaganda. Actually, that part is true. A bunch of morons harassed a former FIFA Animator dev, as team she worked in aided BioWare to do body animations. And body animations were done brilliantly well for ME:A, but people are stupid.
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Croatsky
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Post by Croatsky on Jul 17, 2017 20:50:11 GMT
Aside from the irritating habit of treating Jason as if he was a mouthpiece for Bioware, this is a pretty good article. I do think the devs were hard done by both their company and their fans - creating a game on this scale in 18 months is some serious work and yet we've got all of Reddit's retard brigade branding them the 'B-team'.As for Katherine Cross - I have no idea who she is. I had displeasure to argue with some redditors who insists BW Montreal is a C-team. Meanwhile BioWare Austin is a B-team. Yes, a studio that works on Star Wars F2P MMO, is B-team to some people.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 20:51:28 GMT
My experience in CS:GO, an extremely toxic game, is in direct contradiction to that statement. When I end up with a woman on my team, there are no rude remarks, just strat talk and callouts. It's almost as if skill is the only thing that maters in the meritocracy of truly competitive gaming. The twitch streamers you speak of are lovingly referred to as "boobie streamers" and are rightfully called out on their bullshit. Girl streamers who actually stream for love of the game are adored and the one who use it as a way to expose cleavage and get donation money are reviled, just as it should be. No one should call anyone out imo, and girls should play the games because they love them and not for money, guys need to respect the girls who play for enjoyment and not throw them in with the boob girls, and everyone should grow the hell up and play the games for enjoyment. That's how I see it. The only people who lump all girl gamers in with the boobie streamers are assholes, of course, but the truth is, everyone is an asshole to everyone on the Internet, especially in online gaming. That is my point. Making it a gendered issue adds completely unneeded dynamics to the situation. Looked at author. Immediately grew suspicious. Got to the "then the hilarity came to an abrupt end: that segment of the game community which revenges itself upon anyone who is even perceived to have slighted them, developed a conspiracy about Andromeda’s animations and, of course, found a woman to blame" part, had a laugh, and closed the tab. No thanks, I'm not gonna read anti-gamer propaganda. Actually, that part is true. A bunch of morons harassed a former FIFA Animator dev, as team she worked in aided BioWare to do body animations. And body animations were done brilliantly well for ME:A, but people are stupid. I am well aware of it actually happening, but there is a very obvious reason for referencing that one indecent in particular.
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Croatsky
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Amateur Reporter
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Post by Croatsky on Jul 17, 2017 20:53:34 GMT
I had displeasure to argue with some redditors who insists BW Montreal is a C-team. Meanwhile BioWare Austin is a B-team. Yes, a studio that works on Star Wars F2P MMO, is B-team to some people. Austin did a damn good job with Descent imo. "Nah, they're a lousy B-Team!" - redditor that strokes his imaginary beard
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 20:57:24 GMT
Austin did a damn good job with Descent imo. "Nah, they're a lousy B-Team!" - redditor that strokes his imaginary beard Reddit is cancer.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 17, 2017 20:57:29 GMT
"Nah, they're a lousy B-Team!" - redditor that strokes his imaginary beard Haha biggest bs ever! I think if Austin did MEA DLC we'd be very lucky people! The guy who did Jaal's LM was from Austin. I also believe Kadara was made by Austin. I know the writer for it as well as the characters Lexi and Reyes is from there. She's the one who did The Descent.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 17, 2017 20:58:09 GMT
Looked at author. Immediately grew suspicious. Got to the "then the hilarity came to an abrupt end: that segment of the game community which revenges itself upon anyone who is even perceived to have slighted them, developed a conspiracy about Andromeda’s animations and, of course, found a woman to blame" part, had a laugh, and closed the tab. No thanks, I'm not gonna read anti-gamer propaganda. Actually, that part is true. A bunch of morons harassed a former FIFA Animator dev, as team she worked in aided BioWare to do body animations. And body animations were done brilliantly well for ME:A, but people are stupid. Uhh - some of those body animations were pretty janky - not as bad as the faces, but not brilliantly done... some of the human bodies were pretty bad. Alive and we're all well done though.
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Post by malgus on Jul 17, 2017 20:58:29 GMT
I look at it this way. Fans have a right to want to improve a game they love but suggesting improvements or pointing out what they didn't like, but they have no right to dictate how it's developed. We only love these games because someone created this world that fueled our passions so high we sometimes lose control. However, no one should ever feel they are entitled and their demand shoulds be met. They only have these passions and love for these games because the same people they threatened gave it to them. 100% agree with that, I mean I remember people telling me that bioware betraid them when they decided to not continue in the milky way, because apparently BW owe them an ME 4... They did not seem to mind that MAYBE Bioware did not wanted to make an other ME in the milky way, for them it needed shepard whatever the developper liked it or not... What I tried to explain to many people is that when a creator has to do something (movie, game, series, etc.) against his will because of producer or fan pressure, he won't be as motivated and therefore there is less chance we will have a good results because at that moment, the creator is either driven by a paycheck or a comission but not by passion. This is what happened with spiderman 3 and the character of venom, sam raimi was not interested with including him in his film, but producer and fan pressure forced his hand. The results : Well venom felt really out of place and he was there only near the conclusion because raimi did not wanted him at all, but he had to so he pushed back his appearence at the end to not have to deal with it for most of the film. So we had a useless character in a dissapointing third movie who had to introduce the dark slime or whatever its called to make venom appear... I love venom but if Raimi did not wanted to include him, he should not have been forced to do it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 21:01:59 GMT
Actually, that part is true. A bunch of morons harassed a former FIFA Animator dev, as team she worked in aided BioWare to do body animations. And body animations were done brilliantly well for ME:A, but people are stupid. Uhh - some of those body animations were pretty janky - not as bad as the faces, but not brilliantly done... some of the human bodies were pretty bad. Alive and we're all well done though. BioWare seems incapable of doing anything with the human form at this point, imo.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jul 17, 2017 21:03:45 GMT
It's an okay article. Made some decent points regarding fans, but she's still just another author repeating other news.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 21:04:13 GMT
BioWare seems incapable of doing anything with the human form at this point, imo. The Angara were worse lol I liked the angara, honestly. It doesn't seem to matter what game, but all the BW games I have played miss the mark on modeling and animating human characters.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 21:06:09 GMT
I liked the angara, honestly. It doesn't seem to matter what game, but all the BW games I have played miss the mark on modeling and animating human characters. Haha oh yeah I loved them. Jaal was my Sara's husband. I meant the animations. They had twitchy legs all the time and could never stand properly lol Their feet clipped through the floor too.
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Post by abaris on Jul 17, 2017 21:10:31 GMT
It isn't "BioWare was harassed by unhinged dickwolves," (and wrongly so I may add) but "this woman was harassed by gamers," as if all gamers are from the same ilk of some assholes on Twitter. She only wrote a few lines over that incident. In an opinion piece of roughly three pages if it was in print.
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Post by vonuber on Jul 17, 2017 21:15:38 GMT
Right, and that is sickening, but the "only women face internet harassment" shtick is the only point of mentioning that one indecent. It is bias pushing and deserves scrutiny. It isn't "BioWare was harassed by unhinged dickwolves," (and wrongly so I may add) but "this woman was harassed by gamers," as if all gamers are from the same ilk of some assholes on Twitter. You're making a real mountain out of nothing here.
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Post by cypherj on Jul 17, 2017 21:21:20 GMT
Bioware/EA made a lot of mistakes.
1) Rushing out the game in the condition it was in 2) Putting a review embargo on the game, while still allowing players early access. 3) Then having the early access be what was probably the worst planet on the game.
Now you have only reactions from players initially, which took the form of memes and jokes. Also, review embargos that go so close to the game launch make people leery, it's kind of like movies that aren't screened before release. Some people take that as a sign that it's going to be bad.
But what ultimately did the game in as far as EA was concerned I think was the Metacritic scores. Say what you want about Metacritic and how you don't care. But if developers have focus groups predicting scores, they care. So when the game came back as Bioware's lowest scored game ever, some soul searching needed to be done. Because you can't chalk it up to just disgruntled fans who wanted more of the trilogy or anything that. Even the professional reviewers turned on you.
So now we're at the point where EA is basically saying, we know the game was released in a poor state which may have kept you from buying it, but we've fixed it now, so come play it and see if you change your mind.
I truly feel sorry for the people that worked on the game, because it seems that they didn't get the support or leadership they needed, and they were left holding the bag and scapegoated. Bioware Montreal may be forever tainted after this.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 17, 2017 21:22:04 GMT
Uhh - some of those body animations were pretty janky - not as bad as the faces, but not brilliantly done... some of the human bodies were pretty bad. Alive and we're all well done though. BioWare seems incapable of doing anything with the human form at this point, imo. Autocorrect janked my post there... meant to also say that while humans were iffy, the aliens were well done.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 17, 2017 21:25:47 GMT
Autocorrect janked my post there... meant to also say that while humans were iffy, the aliens were well done. Ian was here earlier and said the Krogan gave them the most trouble. They turned out to be one of the best imo. Other than the infamous slap fight scene.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 21:30:43 GMT
BioWare seems incapable of doing anything with the human form at this point, imo. Autocorrect janked my post there... meant to also say that while humans were iffy, the aliens were well done. Ah. I see. I would agree that the aliens are well done and I would say they are well done throughout the series. BioWare's problem seems to be that they can't seem to get out of uncanny valley in the ME games when it comes to human and human-like characters.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 17, 2017 21:34:32 GMT
Autocorrect janked my post there... meant to also say that while humans were iffy, the aliens were well done. Ah. I see. I would agree that the aliens are well done and I would say they are well done throughout the series. BioWare's problem seems to be that they can't seem to get out of uncanny valley in the ME games when it comes to human and human-like characters. I thought 2+3 did human faces well - 2+3 human faces and Andromeda aliens would have been nice. With the aliens there's not an exact template that we interact with every day so even if they got some stuff "wrong" it wouldn't stand out like with their human faces.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 21:35:34 GMT
It isn't "BioWare was harassed by unhinged dickwolves," (and wrongly so I may add) but "this woman was harassed by gamers," as if all gamers are from the same ilk of some assholes on Twitter. She only wrote a few lines over that incident. In an opinion piece of roughly three pages if it was in print. Right, and that is sickening, but the "only women face internet harassment" shtick is the only point of mentioning that one indecent. It is bias pushing and deserves scrutiny. It isn't "BioWare was harassed by unhinged dickwolves," (and wrongly so I may add) but "this woman was harassed by gamers," as if all gamers are from the same ilk of some assholes on Twitter. You're making a real mountain out of nothing here. Her previous history gives me substantial reason to pause as I see it. *shrugs* All this article really does past pushing the before-mentioned agenda is regurgitate information from Jason @ Loltaku that is shakey at best as well as information that we all already knew from the past. I can't see much point to it, tbh.
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Post by abaris on Jul 17, 2017 21:36:20 GMT
But what ultimately did the game in as far as EA was concerned I think was the Metacritic scores. Say what you want about Metacritic and how you don't care. But if developers have focus groups predicting scores, they care. So when the game came back as Bioware's lowest scored game ever, some soul searching needed to be done. Because you can't chalk it up to just disgruntled fans who wanted more of the trilogy or anything that. Even the professional reviewers turned on you. The professional side of metacritic is just a collection of reviews around the world. The user part is emotional and hardly based on facts. But it's still noteworthy that up until ME2, user and professional reviews were pretty much in line. They started to drift apart with DA2 and never came back to what they were with previous Bioware games. You said it yourself, they partly did themselves in by granting early access in a facepalmworthy attempt to promote Origin Access while ambargoing professional reviews. That way the youtube can of wirms was opened even before release.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 21:39:26 GMT
Ah. I see. I would agree that the aliens are well done and I would say they are well done throughout the series. BioWare's problem seems to be that they can't seem to get out of uncanny valley in the ME games when it comes to human and human-like characters. I thought 2+3 did human faces well - 2+3 human faces and Andromeda aliens would have been nice. With the aliens there's not an exact template that we interact with every day so even if they got some stuff "wrong" it wouldn't stand out like with their human faces. I though all of the ME games did human faces relatively badly, imo. BW really needs to step their game up in that department. I can see how alien face errors wouldn't stand out like errors made on human faces, but at the same time, I never felt skeeved out by the alien expressions as I did with the human ones. That being said, those problems never ranked high enough on my list to detract from the games much if at all.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 17, 2017 21:41:14 GMT
"Nah, they're a lousy B-Team!" - redditor that strokes his imaginary beard Reddit is cancer. Reddit is weird in the sense that its effectively a forum designed from the ground up to be an echo chamber. Stuff that people don't want to hear literally gets downvoted into oblivion. I've no idea why anyone bothers with it. Having said that, like the /r/dankmemes subreddit. It's extremely dank.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 21:44:01 GMT
Reddit is cancer. Reddit is weird in the sense that its effectively a forum designed from the ground up to be an echo chamber. Stuff that people don't want to hear literally gets downvoted into oblivion. I've no idea why anyone bothers with it. Having said that, like the /r/dankmemes subreddit. It's extremely dank. The karma system killed Reddit before it was even born, imo. The only subs worth participating in are subs like r/dankmemes, as you mentioned, and that is only because those subs are non-serious by nature.
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Post by abaris on Jul 17, 2017 22:08:35 GMT
Are you quite capable of understanding what an opinion piece is? Opinion - as in the first word of the headline.
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