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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 22:10:42 GMT
Are you quite capable of understanding what an opinion piece is? Opinion - as in the first word of the headline. Disregarding the snark, I am fully capable of both understanding what an opinion piece is as well as disregarding it wholesale.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 17, 2017 22:36:25 GMT
Not talking down to your customers would be an excellent start. Where did that happen? Just curious, honestly.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 17, 2017 22:48:15 GMT
Ok I'm confused is there now confirmation of no dlc?
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jul 17, 2017 22:49:52 GMT
There is a segment of the gaming community that is becoming a cancer to the gaming industry (as well as society in general) as a whole. If I was a developer and I got a career opportunity in something else I would probably say "screw it" and get out of game development if I had a chance to do something else rather than pour my heart and soul into something only to have it crapped on by ingrate sociopaths who think developers owe them something because they shelled out sixty bucks on a video game.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 17, 2017 23:01:30 GMT
I look at it this way. Fans have a right to want to improve a game they love but suggesting improvements or pointing out what they didn't like, but they have no right to dictate how it's developed. We only love these games because someone created this world that fueled our passions so high we sometimes lose control. However, no one should ever feel they are entitled and their demand shoulds be met. They only have these passions and love for these games because the same people they threatened gave it to them. Or has Yoda said: "Love turns to passion. Passion turns to anger. Anger turns to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 17, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
There is a segment of the gaming community that is becoming a cancer to the gaming industry (as well as society in general) as a whole. If I was a developer and I got a career opportunity in something else I would probably say "screw it" and get out of game development if I had a chance to do something else rather than pour my heart and soul into something only to have it crapped on by ingrate sociopaths who think developers owe them something because they shelled out sixty bucks on a video game. You know Gamergate started because of people with your opinion. I even imagine you "nodding respectfully" while writing that stuff. Look how that ended up though. Gawker went into the gutter and the gaming industry had a really nice wake up call, that you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. When all is said and done, if Bioware or EA somehow feel offended by us, they are welcome to step forward and tell us how awful we are, but I'm guessing they aren't really curious to find out what will happen if they did that... Not even remotely close and the whole gamer gate was blown way out of proportion.
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Post by sil on Jul 17, 2017 23:17:15 GMT
I think most of it was rubbish, but there was a troubling scenario playing out here for a few months where there was a lot of vitriol. It's no wonder the forums closed down and that Bioware rarely post here now. I think, as a community, we need to learn to be constructive rather than abusive or aggressive in our comments. Ian Frazier responded to my thread earlier, I guess because it was trying to get some answers in a polite manner. I think deep down this community needs to be more positive, and I've noticed steps towards that lately which is great.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 17, 2017 23:21:18 GMT
Not even remotely close and the whole gamer gate was blown way out of proportion. I'd say it's pretty much exactly the same as those 8 or 10, or however many "Gamers are dead" articles published in one day taking a giant dump gamers, but to be honest this type of behaviour is not unexpected for BSN. Except that's not what the so called SJW's we're trying to say. However I'm not about to get into that topic.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 17, 2017 23:27:27 GMT
There is a segment of the gaming community that is becoming a cancer to the gaming industry (as well as society in general) as a whole. If I was a developer and I got a career opportunity in something else I would probably say "screw it" and get out of game development if I had a chance to do something else rather than pour my heart and soul into something only to have it crapped on by ingrate sociopaths who think developers owe them something because they shelled out sixty bucks on a video game. You know Gamergate started because of people with your opinion. I even imagine you "nodding respectfully" while writing that stuff. Look how that ended up though. Gawker went into the gutter and the gaming industry had a really nice wake up call, that you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. When all is said and done, if Bioware or EA somehow feel offended by us, they are welcome to step forward and tell us how awful we are, but I'm guessing they aren't really curious to find out what will happen if they did that... A couple of quick notes: Gamergate was started by male developer calling his ex-girlfriend basically a whore and posting a statement about how she slept to get reviews for her indy game, also he later retracted statement. Then a bunch of articles came up basically denouncing the general hatred that gaming culture had been building since forever and an angry right-wing actor got on twitter and coined the term #gamergate. I was there from day fucking one dealing with that shitshow. Gamergate hasn't done a damn thing except get a lot of talented people fired for saying that gaming culture has a serious problem with women and minorities in general, which is the truth, and gave gaming the worst black-eye to the non-gaming public since the censorship war of the 90s. Gawker went out of business due to Hulk Hogan suing them over them releasing/publishing an illegal sex tape of him (made and released without his consent) and he won the full $140 million settlement they couldn't pay and went bankrupt to pay the settlement and then all their assets were bought by Univision. Outside of Hulk Hogan being in a bunch of wrestling video games and doing voice work for Saints Row: The Third, other than that tangential connection, gaming had NOTHING to do with Gawker's demise. EA/BioWare closing their message board to use social media, guess what? A LOT of media companies are doing that in comics for example the major publishers (Dark Horse, Image, IDW, Marvel, and DC) all have closed their message boards, so has most major movie studios and so has other game studios. Because it's cheaper for them use Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Youtube, and other platforms because they don't have to take care of it and they aren't responsible for the content plastered all over them, so they can't be sued.
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Post by vonuber on Jul 17, 2017 23:46:41 GMT
Ok I'm confused is there now confirmation of no dlc? No, there isn't.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 17, 2017 23:59:36 GMT
Ok I'm confused is there now confirmation of no dlc? No, there isn't. Ok so it's just the same old stuff then.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 18, 2017 0:07:16 GMT
Gamergate was a consumer revolt which did its job.
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Post by linksocarina on Jul 18, 2017 0:29:36 GMT
Ive read a lot worse op-eds...
Honestly it's kind of a non-piece, as it doesn't really address anything in the piece, other than what actually happened in regards to the leadup and aftermath.
Except this bit....
I always said in my own stuff, the real problem with Andromeda was how it played it so safe. The game was completely risk-adverse that it was like the original Mass Effect, bit stiff, cliche characters written well most of the time, some info dumping and decent questlines. Personally, I think that stems from Mass Effect 3 more than anything else, it was a conscious choice to not rock the boat but to instead double down on what people remember, the banter, the high-stakes personal plot, the sense of exploration- all of that.
That, in the end, is the real achilles heel because that can't really be fixed. I actually agree, we didn't need a new Mass Effect 1, we needed Mass Effect: Andromeda.
I still like the game for what it is, but it is BioWare's weakest RPG since Neverwinter Nights. One can hope that it can come back some day, there is a LOT of stuff to tell still.
But it might best for the rest for now...
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 18, 2017 0:35:58 GMT
Ian was here earlier and said the Krogan gave them the most trouble. They turned out to be one of the best imo. Other than the infamous slap fight scene. Heretic. That scene was poetry in motion.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 0:46:53 GMT
You know Gamergate started because of people with your opinion. I even imagine you "nodding respectfully" while writing that stuff. Look how that ended up though. Gawker went into the gutter and the gaming industry had a really nice wake up call, that you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. When all is said and done, if Bioware or EA somehow feel offended by us, they are welcome to step forward and tell us how awful we are, but I'm guessing they aren't really curious to find out what will happen if they did that... A couple of quick notes: Gamergate was started by male developer calling his ex-girlfriend basically a whore and posting a statement about how she slept to get reviews for her indy game, also he later retracted statement. Then a bunch of articles came up basically denouncing the general hatred that gaming culture had been building since forever and an angry right-wing actor got on twitter and coined the term #gamergate. I was there from day fucking one dealing with that shitshow. Gamergate hasn't done a damn thing except get a lot of talented people fired for saying that gaming culture has a serious problem with women and minorities in general, which is the truth, and gave gaming the worst black-eye to the non-gaming public since the censorship war of the 90s. Gawker went out of business due to Hulk Hogan suing them over them releasing/publishing an illegal sex tape of him (made and released without his consent) and he won the full $140 million settlement they couldn't pay and went bankrupt to pay the settlement and then all their assets were bought by Univision. Outside of Hulk Hogan being in a bunch of wrestling video games and doing voice work for Saints Row: The Third, other than that tangential connection, gaming had NOTHING to do with Gawker's demise. EA/BioWare closing their message board to use social media, guess what? A LOT of media companies are doing that in comics for example the major publishers (Dark Horse, Image, IDW, Marvel, and DC) all have closed their message boards, so has most major movie studios and so has other game studios. Because it's cheaper for them use Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Youtube, and other platforms because they don't have to take care of it and they aren't responsible for the content plastered all over them, so they can't be sued. Usually I stay the fuck out of #GamerGate discussions on boards with an obvious left-leaning slant, but I have to chime in here. Gamergate was started by male developer calling his ex-girlfriend basically a whore and posting a statement about how she slept to get reviews for her indy game, also he later retracted statement.
That statement is partially true. #GamerGate tension had been building long before the Zoe Quinn chronicles. Reasons for tension included: - The incredible dishonesty in the games media. (This problem extends to all media, tbh)
- Non-gamer influencers pushing their way into gamer circles and then pushing goofy social justice agendas.
- Gamers being blamed for the failures of games companies.
This male dev had insider information pertaining to his then-girlfriend sleeping with reviewers who had given her positive press. He only reversed his statements (yet continued to tongue-in-cheekily espouse them) due to legal threat forced upon him by Quinn's family's wealth and power lawyers and a gag order forced on him.
Then a bunch of articles came up basically denouncing the general hatred that gaming culture had been building since forever and an angry right-wing actor got on twitter and coined the term #gamergate.
Erm, no. These articles boldfacedly declared gamers dead and that the hobby was no longer for gamers. It was the journalists voicing there disgust for their audience. They tried to backpedal from the original articles, but the damage was done. Right and left have nothing to do with this and political compass tests showed most #GGers were left leaning anyway. Gamergate hasn't done a damn thing except get a lot of talented people fired for saying that gaming culture has a serious problem with women and minorities in general, which is the truth,False. #GamerGate got many games journalism outlets to update their codes of ethics and hold their reporters to said codes. An example was disclosure of integrated ads and disclosure of sponsored links. The movement and gaming in general doesn't have a problem with women and minorities. That is not the truth, but a construction of the new group of non-gamers trying to force their way into gaming. What gaming has a problem with is these non-gamer influencers pushing social justice agendas and trying to bend the industry to their will. The only people who got fired were people who dared to support GG as the opposing side had the monopoly on taking people's jobs. and gave gaming the worst black-eye to the non-gaming public since the censorship war of the 90s.
Gaming has always had a scarlet letter A painted on its face simply for the reason that it is new media. It competes with old media and old media doesn't like competition. The same exact thing happened to television until it became part of old media. People will go outta their way to paint gaming in a bad light because it is the new kid on the block.
The other 2 paragraphs are dead nuts on, but the first one was... misinformed. In short, #GamerGate was a consumer revolt, a revolt against a corrupt media, and a revolt against instigaters trying to stir shit up. Like any other social movement, #GamerGate eventually met is goals and then slowly got corrupted by extremists that consider everything to be SJW propaganda and seemingly died out. GG had a goal in mind, set out to do it, and it did it. Not trying to start shit here with you, (we are on the same side of the ME:A lovers vs. hater war after all) but come on man. You left so much out.
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Post by OdanUrr on Jul 18, 2017 0:57:54 GMT
Yeah, I read it a while back. It seemed like an interesting article until I read, "that segment of the game community which revenges itself upon anyone who is even perceived to have slighted them, developed a conspiracy about Andromeda’s animations and, of course, found a woman to blame" and I abandoned hope, filing it under 'blame the misogynistic fans and haters.' This is far from the only reference to the fanbase as the article revolves around the subject of how game communities can be harmful to the games themselves.
Another phrase that stood out to me (not referencing the fans this time) was, "Clearly, in the light of hindsight, pre-releasing a game in such an unfinished state to a large segment of your audience was a terrible idea." Do we really need hindsight now to tell when a game needs fixing in basic areas?
Also, not entirely sure what the author implies when she writes that companies should be more proactive and "do something beyond posting a weak-kneed reminder to their fans that 'attacking individuals, regardless of their involvement in the project, is never acceptable'." I agree that this kind of attitude is not acceptable but what, precisely, does the author suggest companies do? Ban people? Prosecute them? How do you police the internet? It's an interesting topic of discussion to be sure but no such examples are given.
Still, it's an opinion piece so allowances must be made I guess.
PS: The bold parts are mine.
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Post by warrior on Jul 18, 2017 1:05:40 GMT
Considering her true point to this article is to push an agenda with the whole: "Women harassed on the internet" shtick, yes, there is reason to be suspicious if not outright mock the article. There was one harassed. BW had to step in and stop it. She was attacked for MEA face animations. It was disgusting! OMG seriously I am going to try to stay out of this for my mental health but this is one example of many. Where's fluffymothsiren when you need her.
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Post by linksocarina on Jul 18, 2017 1:13:56 GMT
There was one harassed. BW had to step in and stop it. She was attacked for MEA face animations. It was disgusting! OMG seriously I am going to try to stay out of this for my mental health but this is one example of many. Where's fluffymothsiren when you need her. I wonder how many of you remember what a bunch of idiots tried to do to Jennifer Hepler.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 1:19:08 GMT
OMG seriously I am going to try to stay out of this for my mental health but this is one example of many. Where's fluffymothsiren when you need her. I wonder how many of you remember what a bunch of idiots tried to do to Jennifer Hepler. You talking about the "Hamburger Helper" incident?
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 18, 2017 1:25:27 GMT
OMG seriously I am going to try to stay out of this for my mental health but this is one example of many. Where's fluffymothsiren when you need her. I wonder how many of you remember what a bunch of idiots tried to do to Jennifer Hepler. *reluctantly raises hand*Yeah like changing her name to Hamburger Helper. That whole situation made me ashamed to be a gamer.
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Post by linksocarina on Jul 18, 2017 1:29:40 GMT
I wonder how many of you remember what a bunch of idiots tried to do to Jennifer Hepler. *reluctantly raises hand*Yeah like changing her name to Hamburger Helper. That whole situation made me ashamed to be a gamer. Yeah, that. Very odd pattern, it seems. Any time something "goes wrong" or something is misquoted or the like, there is always a scapegoat...
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 18, 2017 1:33:50 GMT
*reluctantly raises hand*Yeah like changing her name to Hamburger Helper. That whole situation made me ashamed to be a gamer. Yeah, that. Very odd pattern, it seems. Any time something "goes wrong" or something is misquoted or the like, there is always a scapegoat... Yup. I say anyone no matter what gender, sexual identity, race, creed , religion can make, play, produce etc.... Who cares as long as they can do the job.
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Post by Warrick on Jul 18, 2017 1:48:12 GMT
I always said in my own stuff, the real problem with Andromeda was how it played it so safe. The game was completely risk-adverse that it was like the original Mass Effect, bit stiff, cliche characters written well most of the time, some info dumping and decent questlines. Personally, I think that stems from Mass Effect 3 more than anything else, it was a conscious choice to not rock the boat but to instead double down on what people remember, the banter, the high-stakes personal plot, the sense of exploration- all of that. That, in the end, is the real achilles heel because that can't really be fixed. I actually agree, we didn't need a new Mass Effect 1, we needed Mass Effect: Andromeda. I still like the game for what it is, but it is BioWare's weakest RPG since Neverwinter Nights. One can hope that it can come back some day, there is a LOT of stuff to tell still. It's partly the fans' fault for wanting a game set after the endings. Casey Hudson made a poll asking people about the next game's setting after ME3 and nobody wanted sidequels or prequels. Forget the first contact war. The interesting decade is the 2170s, with humanity officially recognised and expanding rapidly across he Attican Traverse, before becoming another stuffy Council race. With Terra Firma on their best days. With human corporations like Kassa Fabrication and Sirta expanding ( bring back corporations!). That's the real time humanity was busy "finding a new home" (and its identity as a race sharing the galaxy with many others). The clashes and uneasy relationships and trade of humans with the other races should be interesting for a game about colonisation with heavy dialogue. You could help the efforts to better humanity's place with the Council or contribute to our image as "something of a bully" in Liara's words. Lots of room for decisions. The plot would look nothing like ME1. (This is probably terrible but it's fun to think about. Gawd I love ME's Milky Way.)
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Post by Guts on Jul 18, 2017 1:58:54 GMT
The Angara were worse lol I liked the angara, honestly. It doesn't seem to matter what game, but all the BW games I have played miss the mark on modeling and animating human characters. When I looked at Andromeda's facial animations, a dead horse the internet loves to continue beating, I felt they were slightly worse than other Bioware games, I mean if it was a sequel to something like L.A. Noire, which had spectacular facial animations, and the animations were like this, then yeah I could understand all the hate. But in the case of a company like Bioware, this was really over blown.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 18, 2017 2:03:31 GMT
And again I'm ashamed to be a male gamer.
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