[Videos] Billy Buskell denying issues about off-host headshots

idk, ask the devs who blew a gasket

Wow, just read the whole thread. Not that I previously had even slightest inclination to take anything that Billy says seriously. But now, even a simple thought about that just makes me laugh. IDK how he managed to get his producer job. And he's being plain rude to those who actually pay his paycheck, the customers and users of his so-called product. And deleting the reddit account, it is such a nice touch.

Which I do. I'm probably in the minority here but I would take this game's mechanics over me3. Just the mechanics, not the guns. I enjoy the living shit out of this game, I'd complain about major issues, and then Ill move on. The weapon variants, I can swallow regardless of its execution, but the stuff he keeps saying is insulting to the whole community.

Yeah, maybe you should have.

People are majorly pissed because of Billy's dismissive attitude after more than adequately documenting the problem. This has been an issue with the game since launch. The crux is that either Billy is lying, or he is in complete denial because they have been shown that the problem exists. Saying something that doesn't align with reality when you know it doesn't is either lying or doublethink.

So if you don't think that it's reasonable and justified to be angry when the provider of a product or service dismisses your complaints in a condescending tone after you have made the effort of repeatedly informing them that such issues exist, then my friend, I'm going to float the idea that it's you who has a problem, and not the community.

I don't know how it works wherever you work, but if I politely tell my customers to piss off after I fuck up, I stand to lose my job. I'm not calling for Billy to be fired but I don't see why game developers should be cut more slack than someone working any other job. This shit needs to stop, and until it does, we're going to keep seeing triple A full price beta releases.

By the way, do you get paid for your job as moderator? Do you represent anyone other than yourself? Didn't think so. So apples and oranges.

I can understand being unhappy about what was said in the stream, but I don't condone the reaction he's getting any more than I condone the sketchier elements of those statements.

If you want to roll your eyes at him, fine. But if you want to paint him as some evil, manipulative criminal, defrauding his customers while twirling his mustache and tying Mass Effect to the train tracks, I'll roll my eyes at you. I don't like using anyone as a scapegoat for rage against BioWare, especially when it gives others an excuse to use the community as a scapegoat in return.

And I honestly have absolutely no idea what sofa's status as a moderator has to do with anything. He's as entitled to share his opinion as anyone.

Billy is jerking us around. End of story.

Perhaps I should at that... 
[goes to read and watch]

ok, pretty much holding the same view, there's clearly an issue from the videos, but I still feel that throwing bricks gets us nowhere.

I remember the awful period at the time of DAI's key-glitch, devs on BSN Prime just backed off, and for some good reason.

I appreciate what both Jeremiah12LGeek and you are saying, SofaJockey , yet I do think there are some aspects that shouldn't be overlooked.

First off, I think that EA/Bioware should be thrilled by virtually any discussion their customers have on the webs, even if they contain mountains of salt. There are more than a lot of companies who would do anything to have that level of customer involvement on an open forum. It's a matter of how you choose to approach that as a company. I'm not saying the salt is okay on the webs but if you - as a company - choose to say "This salt is too much, I'm not going to access/take seriously that pool of customer info anymore", then you also ditch all the valuable information that's in there. The approach could also be "Let's hire community specialists to sift through the salt and see what's in there." That being said, I think this thread is not that salty and that there's more than enough valuable customer input here.

Then there is the thing of developers not being able to say what they want because the questions are loaded. Other members have mentioned that some of his remarks were made on his private channel. You say you wouldn't want to have all of you 3,000 posts scrutinised word for word. But you, in the function of mod here, don't work for the subsidiary of a company with ~USD 3.5 bn. revenue last fiscal year and we are not your customers. So people don't do that with your posts.

It's his personal channel? If the CEO of EA were to say things on a personal note it can still have serious consequences for NASDAQ EA. I realise that BB is not the CEO but he should also realise that - as a BW dev - he should always be wary of what he says. Any proper media training should have taught him that. Communicating with the world in the type of function BB has, should never be done lightly, imho and - if in doubt - don't do it.

Questions are loaded? That's irrelevant in a sense, really. If anyone of us asks the unloaded question if there will be any DLC released, BW says they can't answer that because it could trigger a revenue recognition event. So, we're talking about a company here that is already aware of a situation wherein 'basic information' can have far-reaching consequences. In that light, it's a bit strange to tell your customers their questions are loaded or that they have a narrative, especially when you wouldn't dare do so to your shareholders.

And I think that's really it, personally: people are mad because of things like 'brutal internet connection' and 'speaking in words only Kotaku would use'. I for one really don't understand how BB can say stuff about the game on his personal channel and not be in violation of his contract. I mean, how many of us have an employer who is okay with us happily chatting away about our company's product on our personal social media channels?

I know I sure as hell never had one...

Most of that would apply internally.

The situation is too complicated for me to be all that comfortable getting into details, but I'll shift focus to where my original text wall came from, which is the breakdown in communication.

The current cycle is perpetuated by several forces, but if we drop away the details, cycle itself, in very broad terms, tends to go like this:

1. Scaled back BioWare communication creates simmering resentment in community.

2. One of the limited avenues of communication experiences a mis-step. Perhaps it is serious. Perhaps it is minor. The severity matters little, is it tends to erupt the wounds around it, awakening the resentment in the community, which is voiced by some in the form of excessive rage.

3. BioWare (or a representative) points to the outrage as proof that BioWare shouldn't communicate at all.*

4. BioWare scales back communication. Proceed to step 1.

*3a. On two occasions, BioWare formally adopted the opposite approach to great success. Once in ME 3 MP, after a particularly brutal session of unmerited outrage was directed at Brian Johnston, the "Devs Took Over the Front Page" and it was arguably one of the most awesome moments in BioWare history. In the other, they formally adopted a consistent presence in DAMP which served to effectively mitigate the rage and refocus the conversations in a more productive environment. That latter example wasn't perfect, but it was a marked improvement over the first several months of DAI's release.

So yeah, there's lots to call out as far as problems in the communication, and it's easy to see where the behaviour of the community plays a big role in the cycle.

The problem is, from a practical point of view, we lack the power to effect the necessary changes to break the cycle. The only approach we could even begin to take would place a toll on the moderators and this forum that would break it. Imagine "BSN" trying to convince "Reddit" to be more nice. Or vice versa. Neither would go well. Let alone the draconian level of moderation that it would require would fracture the community (or at least this part of it) beyond repair long before we ever got there.

That's the difficult position some of us are in when we're looking at all this. The bulk of the bad behaviour is community-based, but the community has such limited power to effect any change on the cycle.

BioWare has the power to make the change, but consistently uses the bad behaviour as a scapegoat to scale back communication (with the exceptions noted above.)

Watching the cycle perpetuate is very frustrating. When I lay blame, I choose to lay blame squarely at the feet of management. Producers are technically management positions, but it's not quite the same thing as in other industries, because producers fill a creative role, as well. The cycle of worsening communication between BioWare and the community can only ultimately be corrected, I believe, by the actual managers and chief officers. I lay the blame at their feet for perpetuating and allowing a cycle of bad communication that worsens the conditions for everyone, employee and customer alike.

I'd rather people focused on the systemic issues that allow incidents like this to be inaccurately treated as the cause, rather than the symptom of the bigger problem.

Isn't there also a Dutch saying about some people having 'long toes'... 

Anyway, for reference, worth sharing the full twitter conversation between squaredgonzo and bweehlien  (hope I quoted the exchange correctly).

In my view squaredgonzo was largely civil. bweehlien was clearly frustrated but I'm struggling to see any malice in his answers either.
Suggesting arrogance appears not to have been well received, but Twitter is hardly the medium for a considered conversation.

Perhaps a forum would be a better place for this kind of debate?

N-7Mikel‏ squaredgonzo Jul 21
@ehlien so did you just admit on stream there's no netcode for Mass Effect? Saying it doesn't exist?

Billy Buskell‏ @ehlien
No, I dismissed the idea that "netcode" is real. There is code. "Netcode" is a term players have invented.

N-7Mikel‏ squaredgonzo
Yes. But dismissing reports based on a misused terminology is not really fixing the offhost problems this game has since day 1

Billy Buskell‏ @ehlien
Not at all what I said
Rewatch
I said the most frustrating thing for devs is hearing players having issue & not being able to reproduce them

N-7Mikel‏ squaredgonzo
I see.

- - -

N-7Mikel‏ squaredgonzo
@ehlien dismissing "claims" of "netcode" when everyone has video evidence of how poor offhost issues are is incredibly arrogant

Billy Buskell‏ @ehlien
Not at all what was said on stream
Rewatch the video
Please do not twist words to fit your narrative
This is why devs often refuse to reply

N-7Mikel‏ squaredgonzo
And I don't have any narrative. We all want offhost issues to be fixed already mate. After all, this is one of the most tested game of BW

Billy Buskell‏ @ehlien
Your final comment proves otherwise. Thanks for the chat.

N-7Mikel‏ squaredgonzo
BW words not mine, or am I twisting their words too? But seriously the maps are gorgeous, and I hope you guys fix offhost issues soon

Interesting.

As far as I'm aware, sophistry involves the attempt to deceive. I was describing my own reaction to two hypothetical approaches to criticism. One was hyperbolic to make a point, and neither was specifically directed at you, being hypothetical. Hyperbole isn't sophistry, and my reaction to both examples was honest and direct. I only mention this, because any time someone uses a word incorrectly to make themselves look smart while criticizing me, I'm compelled to correct them. Call it a tick.

You're free to say that I'm not being level-headed or productive, of course. Opinions and all that.



I'll accept that I misunderstood what you meant there, but I'll add that you did not express that in a way that was clear. You didn't directly connect it (which leaves room for misinterpretation) to your intended point, but rather added it after the part about sofa being part of the problem.

I can't help but notice that a small misunderstanding prompted a pretty strong offended reaction from you. I misunderstood your point about sofa, and you misunderstood my point about how I react to the community's response. Next thing, you're accusing me of lying, and implying that I am neither level-headed nor productive. Food for thought (perhaps.)