jadedragonmtr
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: JadeDragonMTR
Posts: 416 Likes: 600
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Post by jadedragonmtr on Jul 22, 2017 16:45:57 GMT
Netcode DOES exist (atleast in non-frostbite engines). I have worked with Unreal Engine for years and I know you have to write the code that that replicates events and values between server and clients. In Unreal, we call it replication system. You can actually decide what actions should happen on the server and what should be done on the client etc. We also write code to alleviate problems caused by lag and net packets coming out of order. Then there is packet prioritization. Ie you can give priority to certain packets (keyboard and mouse events) and less priority to others (cosmetic stuff). Then there is the code for optimizing the data transmissions. This mainly involves deciding what Actors should be replicated (actors = enemies, weapons, projectiles..). For instance in a huge map we try to replicate Actors closer to the player more frequently and put Actors that are far away for later. As a matter of fact the reason for the rubber banding in ME3MP was a absence of 5-10 lines of code that was present in the stock UE3 Engine. I still don't know why BioWare decided to remove that part of code. Putting it back solved the rubber banding. (Another BSNr and I managed to reverse engineer some of the ME3MP source code after the official support ended.) Of course Netcode is not a word you'll find in the dictionary. Technically it is called Replication system/Framework/Code (depends on the Engine though). But we gamers use a lot of invented terms such as buff, nerf, pug ... So saying Netcode does not exist is a lie. Perhaps it does not exist on their engine which might explain all the lag-related issues. Wow! This knowledge really puts things in perspective.
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Post by Kenny Bania on Jul 22, 2017 16:53:32 GMT
Netcode DOES exist (atleast in non-frostbite engines). I have worked with Unreal Engine for years and I know you have to write the code that that replicates events and values between server and clients. In Unreal, we call it replication system. You can actually decide what actions should happen on the server and what should be done on the client etc. We also write code to alleviate problems caused by lag and net packets coming out of order. Then there is packet prioritization. Ie you can give priority to certain packets (keyboard and mouse events) and less priority to others (cosmetic stuff). Then there is the code for optimizing the data transmissions. This mainly involves deciding what Actors should be replicated (actors = enemies, weapons, projectiles..). For instance in a huge map we try to replicate Actors closer to the player more frequently and put Actors that are far away for later. As a matter of fact the reason for the rubber banding in ME3MP was a absence of 5-10 lines of code that was present in the stock UE3 Engine. I still don't know why BioWare decided to remove that part of code. Putting it back solved the rubber banding. (Another BSNr and I managed to reverse engineer some of the ME3MP source code after the official support ended.) Of course Netcode is not a word you'll find in the dictionary. Technically it is called Replication system/Framework/Code (depends on the Engine though). But we gamers use a lot of invented terms such as buff, nerf, pug ... So saying Netcode does not exist is a lie. Perhaps it does not exist on their engine which might explain all the lag-related issues. Added to my ignore list. Thanks for the chat.
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Post by someN7orother on Jul 22, 2017 16:58:51 GMT
As far as I'm aware, sophistry involves the attempt to deceive. I was describing my own reaction to two hypothetical approaches to criticism. One was hyperbolic to make a point, and neither was specifically directed at you, being hypothetical. Hyperbole isn't sophistry, and my reaction to both examples was honest and direct. I only mention this, because any time someone uses a word incorrectly to make themselves look smart while criticizing me, I'm compelled to correct them. Call it a tick. I used the term fully mindful of its meaning and implications. You misrepresented my stance (because if not, why quote me?), in a textbook example of a straw man argument, because otherwise, you have little ground for disputing that the anger at Billy's statements is in fact warranted. No one here has called Billy a criminal. en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sophistry1.1 [count noun] A fallacious argument. I don't believe that your intent was to deceive, rather simply to hop on the level-headedness high horse that is so common in online discussions, but either way it is immaterial as the term doesn't necessitate deceitful intent. I only mention this, because any time someone misses the mark on a correction they made to make themselves look smarter than someone else, I'm compelled to point it out. We all have our pet peeves. You're free to say that I'm not being level-headed or productive, of course. Opinions and all that. [...] I can't help but notice that a small misunderstanding prompted a pretty strong offended reaction from you. I misunderstood your point about sofa, and you misunderstood my point about how I react to the community's response. Next thing, you're accusing me of lying, and implying that I am neither level-headed nor productive. Food for thought (perhaps.) I haven't accused you of lying, am I to assume that this is just another "small misunderstanding"? I'm only suggesting that, in light of your fallacious previous post and your smarmy tone in this one, you are actually driving the discussion in the exact opposite direction of what your previously conciliatory and superficially constructive posts apparently promoted. Straw in the eye and all that.
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RonnieBlastoff
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Making a grilled cheese sandwhich with bottled blue cheese.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: RonnieBlastoff
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Post by RonnieBlastoff on Jul 22, 2017 17:01:06 GMT
.......... That's the difficult position some of us are in when we're looking at all this. The bulk of the bad behaviour is community-based, but the community has such limited power to effect any change on the cycle. ........... Watching the cycle perpetuate is very frustrating. When I lay blame, I choose to lay blame squarely at the feet of management. ................. You guys are getting so deep... but I think everyone has forgotten the "business" that is video games and are looking for quality after already purchasing "crap". There is a way to prevent this "crap" not just from Bioware, but from every single game company who has chosen this beta releasing path. This game is not completely terrible imo, i'd be a hypo if I said it was and someone checked my play-hours, but at the same time I'm not blind of the issues within the game. If anything, when I bought MEA, I invested in the "quality decrease" I experienced from ME2 -> ME3. MEA is the last big $60 game I bought, and before this, was almost 2 years? Sadly this is the reality of videogames. You have to wait until after the game is released and things are ran through a BS checklist. Bioware got me exited and forgetting my own experiences already, I assumed they wouldn't make the same "mistakes" with MEA. lol charlie murphy wrong... But anyway, as long as people keep buying sugar coated :poop: , people who sell it will keep on selling it. It is just about how little sugar it takes before people realize they are eatting :poop: .
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Scathane
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Space Pirate
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Scathane on Jul 22, 2017 17:01:13 GMT
Fair enough. Yet, as we say in Dutch, "High trees catch a lot of wind." I think that's a good tip for BB... Isn't there also a Dutch saying about some people having 'long toes'... Yes, and then we also have "S/he who burns the buns, should sit on the blebs", "You oughtn't raise your head above the mowing field" and "Who bounces the ball should expect the rebound"... #qualitytranslationsbyscath
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Xan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: XAN1_95
PSN: XAN1_95
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Post by Xan on Jul 22, 2017 17:29:35 GMT
I've recorded some clips today and put them together. The games were played on 3 different hosts and I only included the most obvious occurences of the "headshots not registering" issue. wavebend you can it to the OP if you like. Also I gotta say, that Sweeper Siphon 2 I'm using in the video definitely made me stronger and allowed me to play on the higher difficulties. Had I not acquired that along with the Halberd Concussive and the Phalanx Bulwark, I'd probably still be playing on Bronze. Thank you devs, you know exactly what the players and the game need!
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Uchimura
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Post by Uchimura on Jul 22, 2017 17:35:58 GMT
As a matter of fact the reason for the rubber banding in ME3MP was a absence of 5-10 lines of code that was present in the stock UE3 Engine. I still don't know why BioWare decided to remove that part of code. Putting it back solved the rubber banding. (Another BSNr and I managed to reverse engineer some of the ME3MP source code after the official support ended.) How did you 'put it back' and where can I see this?
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mindfane
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: mindfane
XBL Gamertag: mindfane
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Post by mindfane on Jul 22, 2017 17:48:31 GMT
As a matter of fact the reason for the rubber banding in ME3MP was a absence of 5-10 lines of code that was present in the stock UE3 Engine. I still don't know why BioWare decided to remove that part of code. Putting it back solved the rubber banding. (Another BSNr and I managed to reverse engineer some of the ME3MP source code after the official support ended.) How did you 'put it back' and where can I see this? Well, as I said before there was another BSNr who actually wrote a decompiler/compiler for the Unrealscript bytecode. So he shared the decompiler with me and I converted the bytecodes to Unrealscript. I already had the stock versions of these files from UDK. So I knew there was a section of code in the Actor class that ignored out-of-sync replication packets. I looked inside the decompiled file and it wasn't there. So I told the other BSNr about this and gave him the original code that was there. He put it back and compiled it back to bytecode (He did not give me the compiler part as it was not very user friendly). With the modified file the rubber-banding was gone. The funny thing is the code that was stripped contained a comment on top of it which explained exactly what it did. NOTE: This fix only removes rubber-banding (ie alternating between old and new location). You'd still teleport if there is lag. PS: I am not disclosing the name of the BSNr as part of what we did (reverse-engineering) was technically illegal. However some of you guys might know him
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Whoateallmypasghetti
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Whoateallmypasghetti on Jul 22, 2017 17:49:15 GMT
Cant wait until they fix this and lock it behind a new weapon variant
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Post by Terminator Force on Jul 22, 2017 17:59:43 GMT
But anyway, as long as people keep buying sugar coated :poop: , people who sell it will keep on selling it. It is just about how little sugar it takes before people realize they are eatting :poop: . People are literally eating sugar coated :poop: everyday, and I'm not just talking videoagames.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jul 22, 2017 18:03:11 GMT
As a matter of fact the reason for the rubber banding in ME3MP was a absence of 5-10 lines of code that was present in the stock UE3 Engine. I still don't know why BioWare decided to remove that part of code. Putting it back solved the rubber banding. (Another BSNr and I managed to reverse engineer some of the ME3MP source code after the official support ended.) How did you 'put it back' and where can I see this? I recall crashsuit posting a link to something improving "netcode" for ME3mp, is it named; Patch_001.sfar
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t41rdeye
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: T41rdEye
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Post by t41rdeye on Jul 22, 2017 18:04:46 GMT
...(reverse-engineering)... hi this is billy thanks for your feedback this is strictly forbidden in our terms of service reverse-engineering is not a thing never has been a thing we at bioweare dismiss any helpful feedback from our customers because we're arrogant and lazy <account deleted>
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Post by crashsuit on Jul 22, 2017 18:11:10 GMT
How did you 'put it back' and where can I see this? I recall crashsuit posting a link to something improving "netcode" for ME3mp, is it named; Patch_001.sfar I did? Hmm. My memory's not great so I could've but I don't remember that. I do remember there being an issue with the sfar file being different for people who were on version 1.6 instead of 1.5, and also I think there's some kind of variable in coalesced.bin that controls how often polling is done for position matching between host and client, or something like that.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jul 22, 2017 18:16:27 GMT
I used the term fully mindful of its meaning and implications. You misrepresented my stance (because if not, why quote me?), in a textbook example of a straw man argument, because otherwise, you have little ground for disputing that the anger at Billy's statements is in fact warranted. No one here has called Billy a criminal. en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sophistry1.1 [count noun] A fallacious argument. I don't believe that your intent was to deceive, rather simply to hop on the level-headedness high horse that is so common in online discussions, but either way it is immaterial as the term doesn't necessitate deceitful intent. I only mention this, because any time someone misses the mark on a correction they made to make themselves look smarter than someone else, I'm compelled to point it out. We all have our pet peeves. I haven't accused you of lying, am I to assume that this is just another "small misunderstanding"? I'm only suggesting that, in light of your fallacious previous post and your smarmy tone in this one, you are actually driving the discussion in the exact opposite direction of what your previously conciliatory and superficially constructive posts apparently promoted. Straw in the eye and all that. I'll need to parse this a bit before giving up entirely. I don't believe that your intent was to deceive, rather simply to hop on the level-headedness high horse that is so common in online discussions, but either way it is immaterial as the term doesn't necessitate deceitful intent. It does, however necessitate a deceitful argument, and you have failed to identify either the argument, or the deceit. I presented two hypothetical criticisms in what you quoted, after providing the context that I was referring to how I react to the community's methods of criticism (the exact subject you were discussing by saying the anger was justified, and the part of the quote you removed so you could respond to it without said context.) My point, which shouldn't need explaining three times, is that the anger is an understandable emotional response, directing rage by dogpiling on someone is not. While I can see where it comes from, it doesn't accomplish anything productive. No one here has called Billy a criminal. You continue to literally interpret obvious hyperbole, and I'm pretty you're doing it on purpose (especially since I've already pointed it out to you.) The phrase "twirling his mustache" is an obvious reference to cartoon villains. How can you assume that a reference to cartoon villains is intended to be literal? Also, it was part of a binary hypothetical, and therefore pretty clearly intended to illustrate two extremes. I haven't accused you of lying You misrepresented my stance in light of your fallacious previous post All I have the energy to say to all this is that there is no such thing as a valid semantic argument. Semantic arguments are used in place of valid counterpoints. For example, What argument of mine do you think you're so expertly fencing your way through? Are you going to claim I'm saying the anger isn't justified? You certainly suggest that, and yet, there are quite a few posts where I explain and acknowledge the phenomenon, including repeatedly saying that it's understandable. For someone who has been so "unfairly misrepresented, deceived, and offended by unfair implications" You have put a lot of energy into trying to craft a narrative around what this mythic argument of mine is that has so offended you. I have limited energy for pointlessly talking in circles, so if you still don't understand what I'm saying, I won't be putting any more effort into explaining it. Have fun with your anger.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jul 22, 2017 18:21:17 GMT
I recall crashsuit posting a link to something improving "netcode" for ME3mp, is it named; Patch_001.sfar I did? Hmm. My memory's not great so I could've but I don't remember that. I do remember there being an issue with the sfar file being different for people who were on version 1.6 instead of 1.5, and also I think there's some kind of variable in coalesced.bin that controls how often polling is done for position matching between host and client, or something like that. Well do u happen to have a link for the adjusted coalesced.bin?
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Post by Terminator Force on Jul 22, 2017 18:23:00 GMT
PS: I am not disclosing the name of the BSNr as part of what we did (reverse-engineering) was technically illegal. However some of you guys might know him BioWare doesn't believe in netcode, so they will dismiss it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 18:27:40 GMT
No complaints about CE, but If there was a way I could shorten things down to a single day, I'd be all over it. I gave up on actually maxing even by nefarious means. I got the three or four weapons I actually use to Siphon X, that's good enough. It is so fucking tedious having to open 20, 40, 60 mil worth of packs at a time and not be maxed. I think I've done about 150 mil since 1.09 dropped and still have about half of the UR variants at rank 5 or below. Already do, lol. Still find it tedious as shit. This is probably the greatest indictment of the level of gear bloat BioWare has "achieved" that I've ever seen. Instead of eagerly watching the RNG rolls with a degree of "ooh, what am I gonna get" sort of anticipation, we've resorted to credit hacks and macros to wade through the piles of stuff we don't want, don't care a bit about, and will never, ever use. I admit to being pleased about unlocking some Siphon weapons, though leveling them seems pointless. The Bulwark and Concussive variants only clutter the UI imho.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 18:31:47 GMT
But anyway, as long as people keep buying sugar coated :poop: , people who sell it will keep on selling it. It is just about how little sugar it takes before people realize they are eatting :poop: . People are literally eating sugar coated :poop: everyday, and I'm not just talking videoagames. I think sometimes we insert the word "literally" when we don't really mean it.
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t41rdeye
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: T41rdEye
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Post by t41rdeye on Jul 22, 2017 18:32:55 GMT
They have decided you are wrong and that what you’re saying is unimportant. At the same time, they’ve decided that they know better, that they have some kind of superior knowledge and already understand what you’re saying without giving your opinion or insight any kind of real attention. They are flippant, condescending, arrogant, cavalier. They are also opportunists. They’ve taken this opportunity, after you’ve expressed something that has meaning to you, to belittle what you are saying; so that they look bigger.
The attack could be passive-aggressive, a way to brush you off and imply that what you’re saying isn’t valid. Or they will impose their huge opinion over the top of what you say by saying it bigger and louder. Either way it is an attack. They want to make you feel bad and shut you down.
Why?
One reason could be that they are scared of what you are saying. They have to defeat it because it challenges one of their beliefs. What other reason for them to be competitive and cruel? They are afraid.
Another reason, which I already alluded to, is they just want to seem better, superior. This certainly goes along with their attitude and tactics; one of the characteristics of a dismissive person is that they are egotistical. They snidely and arrogantly purport to know the subject (whatever it happens to be) better than you. So, still, they feel challenged and must squash you and what you say. This indicates a good amount of insecurity and fear on their part.
What to do?
One thing you can do is question them. “Oh, really?” That’s how you can start it. Then ask them exact questions about the issue, to see if they really have it narrowed down. Nine times out of ten, they’ll be at a loss; because they really don’t know, they are pretending.
This is important to know too: It’s all pretense. Even their tactics exude pretense. Often they will be pretending to “help”. Of course, what they want to do really is shut you down.
The other thing you can do is plainly and directly tell them that they are being dismissive; that they are implying that what you are saying is unimportant and that they obviously have no regard for you. Some people, unaware that they are being rude, will suddenly see what they are doing and might even apologize.
Finally, if it is simply too tiring and a waste of time to respond to them at all, or they are relentless, you can totally avoid them and avoid talking to them; or at least keep contact with them to a minimum. Of course, this might not totally solve the problem of how they treat people but it is likely a wise action considering the perpetrator’s approach to life and how they treat you.
Simply put, you really can do without them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 18:49:57 GMT
Finally, if it is simply too tiring and a waste of time to respond to them at all, or they are relentless, you can totally avoid them and avoid talking to them; or at least keep contact with them to a minimum. Of course, this might not totally solve the problem of how they treat people but it is likely a wise action considering the perpetrator’s approach to life and how they treat you. You could always write a complaint to the higher ups. I know a lot of players, just like me, have witnessed the dark days of DAIMP. That's the first time I really got burned on video games and felt like refunding, and now the same guy has somewhat done the same with MEAMP. Don't expect to ever see me again on another BioWare multiplayer title, I've got my fill of incompetence This is the only industry where stuff like this, is perhaps nothing more than a slap on the fingers. Unfortunately most people are desperate and will kneel in front of devs like they're some kind of gods (well, some of them are, wink Luke Barrett)
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jul 22, 2017 18:54:02 GMT
They have decided you are wrong and that what you’re saying is unimportant. At the same time, they’ve decided that they know better, that they have some kind of superior knowledge and already understand what you’re saying without giving your opinion or insight any kind of real attention. They are flippant, condescending, arrogant, cavalier. They are also opportunists. They’ve taken this opportunity, after you’ve expressed something that has meaning to you, to belittle what you are saying; so that they look bigger.
The attack could be passive-aggressive, a way to brush you off and imply that what you’re saying isn’t valid. Or they will impose their huge opinion over the top of what you say by saying it bigger and louder. Either way it is an attack. They want to make you feel bad and shut you down.
Why?
One reason could be that they are scared of what you are saying. They have to defeat it because it challenges one of their beliefs. What other reason for them to be competitive and cruel? They are afraid.
Another reason, which I already alluded to, is they just want to seem better, superior. This certainly goes along with their attitude and tactics; one of the characteristics of a dismissive person is that they are egotistical. They snidely and arrogantly purport to know the subject (whatever it happens to be) better than you. So, still, they feel challenged and must squash you and what you say. This indicates a good amount of insecurity and fear on their part.
What to do?
One thing you can do is question them. “Oh, really?” That’s how you can start it. Then ask them exact questions about the issue, to see if they really have it narrowed down. Nine times out of ten, they’ll be at a loss; because they really don’t know, they are pretending.
This is important to know too: It’s all pretense. Even their tactics exude pretense. Often they will be pretending to “help”. Of course, what they want to do really is shut you down.
The other thing you can do is plainly and directly tell them that they are being dismissive; that they are implying that what you are saying is unimportant and that they obviously have no regard for you. Some people, unaware that they are being rude, will suddenly see what they are doing and might even apologize.
Finally, if it is simply too tiring and a waste of time to respond to them at all, or they are relentless, you can totally avoid them and avoid talking to them; or at least keep contact with them to a minimum. Of course, this might not totally solve the problem of how they treat people but it is likely a wise action considering the perpetrator’s approach to life and how they treat you.
Simply put, you really can do without them. You could always write a complaint to the higher ups. I know a lot of players, just like me, have witnessed the dark days of DAIMP. That's the first time I really got burned on video games and felt like refunding, and now the same guy has somewhat done the same with MEAMP. Don't expect to ever see me again on another BioWare multiplayer title, I've got my fill of incompetence I got the sense that was more of a critique of us posting in here than it was of BioWare, but there is the vagueness.
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Post by crashsuit on Jul 22, 2017 18:54:20 GMT
I did? Hmm. My memory's not great so I could've but I don't remember that. I do remember there being an issue with the sfar file being different for people who were on version 1.6 instead of 1.5, and also I think there's some kind of variable in coalesced.bin that controls how often polling is done for position matching between host and client, or something like that. Well do u happen to have a link for the adjusted coalesced.bin? I don't have the fix applied to my own coalesced.bin, I could never get it to improve anything no matter how I adjusted it, though other people have said it's helped them. There's also no one magic value to change it to, it can depend on your FPS, you may need to play around with it a little. The variable to edit is MOVEREP_DELAY_FRAME, here's an archive of the old BSN thread talking about it and describing how it works. isitaboutmycube.com/shelter/resourcelibraries/topic/478226-pc-how-to-eliminatereduce-rubber-banding-when-playing-off-host-under-poor-network-conditions/index.html
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jul 22, 2017 18:55:55 GMT
I keep forgetting that some of that stuff survived.
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Post by crashsuit on Jul 22, 2017 18:57:54 GMT
I keep forgetting that some of that stuff survived. I've got the Crusader fix too. No clue where some of the other fixes went though, like Warp/Incinerate, FPS/shield regen, etc., I was never successful in tracking down copies of those when the old BSN was still up.
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Post by Uchimura on Jul 22, 2017 19:03:44 GMT
I got the sense that was more of a critique of us posting in here than it was of BioWare, but there is the vagueness. According to his other posts, no. It looks like a long rant about how Billy is an evil villain trying to ruin our lives. This is just getting weird. I can't take these forums seriously anymore.
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