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Post by majesticjazz on Jul 22, 2017 20:15:39 GMT
To me I think Bioware could have done more to make things less familiar and more alien.
Planets:
Habitat 7 should have been a fully explorable planet like the rest because it had that unfamiliar/weird/alien feel. Yes, I know from narrative reasons why it wasnt but still, Bioware could have taken the look and atmosphere of the planet for one of the other garden worlds like Eos.
Speaking of Eos, that and Voeld were missed opportunities. Thet were just generic ice and desert planets. Bioware should have made these locations more exotic and something that we could not have imagined in the Milky Way.
Races:
Why is it that in a new galaxy, we see more races....from the previous galaxy!? When I first played ME1 and stepped onto the Citadel for the first time after Eden Prime, I really felt like I was stepping into new territory and got that, "I am just a small spec in a much larger galaxy". I mean, asside from the Turians which I already saw on the Normandy (Nilhus), I saw the Salarians, Krogan, Asari, Hanar, Quarians, Volus, Elcor, and Keepers. That is 7 new races, 8 including the Turians. Then the DLC introduced the Batarians....9 races! The alleged new DLC for MEA introduces.....the Quarians....another MW race and a recent MP DLC gave us....a Bartariam....ANOTHER MW race.
Yet we only have 2....I said TWO Andromeda races! 1 bad and 1 good. If you just played the game without any dialog and just watched the visuals, you could have mistaken MEA for being a game that takes place in the Milky Way with 2 new races discovering the galaxy.
This leads me to my next point.....
Civilization/History:
ME1 had the Citadel, a central location where all the advanced races called home and essentially the capital of the MW. Here you learn about how the Asari discovered it, how the Salarians help formed the Counsel and SPECTRES, how the Rachni Wars came, and then the discovery of the Krogans, then the Rebellions, then the Turians and so on. You learn how the Volus are at the center of galactic economics, Turians military, Salarians science, and Asari art/philosophy. You get that Dorthy "Im not in Kansas anymore" moment. Yet in Andromeda there is nothing like that. Bioware never really established any Andromeda civilation/organization/government/conflicts like they did in the MW. In the MW, we saw the rivraly between humans and bartarians, Quarians and Get, Krogan and Turians/Salarians etc. But nothing like that in MEA other than Kett and Angara.
Its like Bioware wantes to have the cake and eat it to. They used the excuse to run away from the ME3 endings by going to an new galaxy to explore more. However, they still want Andromeda to be more grounded in MW lore/races/conflicts rather than truely letting the MW go and just open up new (more than 2) Andromeda races, lore, and conflicts. Its like Bioware wanted to leave the MW but not leave behind the contents of the MW which to me diminishes the "newness" of Andromeda. They wanted to have the cake and eat it to.
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IF there is a MEA2 (Which I hope doesnt follow Ryder), Bioware needs to open up Andromeda and show us more new Andromenda advanced races and alien homeworlds and new Andromeda factions and conflicts. Its as if Bioware wasnt confident enough in Andromeda being a strong selling point so they used all the MW races in order to make it appealing to the ME base. Sort of like how Marvel used RDJ/Iron Man in the marketing/narrative in the new Spidey movie cause they didnt think Tom Holland could sell it himself.
If Andromeda is supposed to be new then it should be new and less familiar. I dont care about the Krogans vs Salarians/Turians anymore, I want to experience Andromeda races and THEIR conflicts. I want to see the Andromenda equivalent of the Citadel and be exposed to Andromeds politics and so on.
Im not sure if we will ever get a MEA2, but if we do, I want Bioware to open up their imaginations and stop playing it safe. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why I should see more MW races in Andromeda than I do actual Andromeda races. No reason.
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Post by anarchy65 on Jul 22, 2017 20:24:08 GMT
Just a bit? Should have been MUCH more. It has less alien races than previously ME games. And the angaran and the kett are not that great.
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Post by anarchy65 on Jul 22, 2017 20:25:17 GMT
ME2 stayed on the same galaxy and introduced more races than ME:A: The Collectors, the Drell, the Vorcha and the Yahg (DLC).
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Post by 10k on Jul 22, 2017 20:43:26 GMT
It just goes to show you Andromeda was just a way to get away from the endings of ME3. The milky way galaxy was big enough to introduce these two new species. We didn't need to go to Andromeda. There was nothing spectacular about it.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 22, 2017 20:58:13 GMT
There's technically four races that we are aware of: Jardaan and "The Opposition", Angara and Kett. We don't even know if the Jardaan and "The Opposition" are still alive. I thought they were varied enough between the Remnant locations and worlds. Sure, you had your typical desert/ice planet that's been done countless times. But adding the Remnant touch on those ice/desert made it just different enough. Regarding the Quarians: I like to think that its a new enemy/species that's warning the MW races to "stay away". If its the Reapers I'll be disappointed and then I'll agree with you on that front.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jul 22, 2017 21:04:36 GMT
There's technically four races that we are aware of: Jardaan and "The Opposition", Angara and Kett. We don't even know if the Jardaan and "The Opposition" are still alive. I thought they were varied enough between the Remnant locations and worlds. Sure, you had your typical desert/ice planet that's been done countless times. But adding the Remnant touch on those ice/desert made it just different enough. Regarding the Quarians: I like to think that its a new enemy/species that's warning the MW races to "stay away". If its the Reapers I'll be disappointed and then I'll agree with you on that front. Even including them, thats still more MW races in Andromeda than actual Andromeda races which brings us back to my initial argument.
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Post by abaris on Jul 22, 2017 21:07:38 GMT
There's technically four races that we are aware of: Technically there's only 2, since we only see 2. I agree with what OP said. They could have just as well stayed in the Milky Way. The premise is OK, but what they made of it makes the premise a pretext to not having to deal with the ME3 ending consequences. It's still Milky Way with one added interactable race and a generic enemy to shoot up.
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Post by derrame on Jul 22, 2017 21:32:00 GMT
yes of course
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 22, 2017 22:56:00 GMT
ME2 stayed on the same galaxy and introduced more races than ME:A: The Collectors, the Drell, the Vorcha and the Yahg (DLC). Yes. ME2 had a galaxy from which to collect races. Andromeda has a single cluster. And the race they do find in that cluster are engineered. So if we're going to talk about the races you know about then let's at least be honest about where they are. The angara are engineered by the Jardaan. The Jardaan were driven from space by The Opposition, and there's the Kett (who might be The Opposition?), and we know next to nothing about any of them. Aside from the angara, we know next to nothing about the history of the Kett, except that there's a a Senate and they're going around exalting species.
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Post by LogicGunn on Jul 22, 2017 23:07:04 GMT
Some of the game was a bit too familiar. And the Angara and Kett are like modified Quarians and Salarians. I was hoping for something truly alien for those that have played ME1-3. Leviathan was very alien. And the Yahg and Hanar. Bored of bipedal human substitutes. BUT... It was only a tiny section of Andromeda, so I'm hopeful for something totally weird and maybe scary in future games.
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Post by marshalmoriarty on Jul 22, 2017 23:11:21 GMT
Bear in mind that the whole point was to settle an unclaimed region. Setting off across such an expanse to an occupied area would be very unwise. If there was a whole, established community of alien races in Andromeda, the Milky Way races would be at a tremendous disadvantage.
For me, the real problem was cutting out the journey itself. If this game had focused on a perilous journey, the mishaps and adventures as you made the crossing to Andromeda, it would have given a more epic scale. Have you be people awakened due to a crisis, gather the arks back together, receive hints at greater mysteries awaiting in Andromeda etc. And leave the reveal of Andromeda itself for the ending and sequel.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 22, 2017 23:12:23 GMT
Honestly, yeah. Probably. I mean, I get the lore explanation that it is only one cluster, so having 5 new sentient species pop up would be odd looking through Mass Effect history, however I would have liked a few more new alien species, 4-5, with some cool looking creatures (maybe some giant creatures, or seeing those undersea creatures you hear about on Voeld). Habitat 7 was a good start for an alien-looking planet, with floating rocks and the like, but there were a lot of desert planets. Some more alien-looking areas could have been good. Also, I understand the technical limitations that are the reason behind making most new aliens bipedal humanoid aliens, but some more Rachni or something aliens would be interesting.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Jul 22, 2017 23:15:01 GMT
Yes, this was my main gripe with Andromeda, Bioware played it really safe in that regard. The only really alien place was the torn apart planet with mining zones and near zero G. And that was basically the moon. Everything else was near earth-like and the species all bi-pedal with human like faces and bodily features. I expected to see something along the lines of Rachni.....
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Post by Serza on Jul 22, 2017 23:20:55 GMT
ME2 stayed on the same galaxy and introduced more races than ME:A: The Collectors, the Drell, the Vorcha and the Yahg (DLC). Yes. ME2 had a galaxy from which to collect races. Andromeda has a single cluster. And the race they do find in that cluster are engineered. So if we're going to talk about the races you know about then let's at least be honest about where they are. The angara are engineered by the Jardaan. The Jardaan were driven from space by The Opposition, and there's the Kett (who might be The Opposition?), and we know next to nothing about any of them. Aside from the angara, we know next to nothing about the history of the Kett, except that there's a a Senate and they're going around exalting species. This needs to be put on a loudspeaker. On repeat.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 22, 2017 23:21:50 GMT
I've actually been thinking about this issue recently myself and there are two obvious conclusions.
1. Lack of expertise with frostbite.
2. Or a creative decision.
It's the second one that is the most interesting.
Sure maybe more alien aliens are more interesting and maybe it's bad writing that bioware thought they couldn't pull it off.
But.
Compare the kett to the Reapers. The reapers were allllliiiiieennn. All powerful. Alien design . unknowable. Unsympathetic. Monolithic. More a force of nature then an enemy faction. The Ketts design is part of what suggests the opposite. We can know about them. We can understand them. We can understand their motives. We can reason with them. They have depth and nuance and they have different opinions from one another. Which makes them more interesting then the Reapers. And Cerberus for that matter.
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Post by fchopin on Jul 22, 2017 23:32:12 GMT
Yes i was hoping for more alien planets and more aliens. I find the Kett a very boring and disappointing race.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 23:35:20 GMT
I've actually been thinking about this issue recently myself and there are two obvious conclusions. 1. Lack of expertise with frostbite. 2. Or a creative decision. It's the second one that is the most interesting. Sure maybe more alien aliens are more interesting and maybe it's bad writing that bioware thought they couldn't pull it off. But. Compare the kett to the Reapers. The reapers were allllliiiiieennn. All powerful. Alien design . unknowable. Unsympathetic. Monolithic. More a force of nature then an enemy faction. The Ketts design is part of what suggests the opposite. We can know about them. We can understand them. We can understand their motives. We can reason with them. They have depth and nuance and they have different opinions from one another. Which makes them more interesting then the Reapers. And Cerberus for that matter. I tend to lean towards this idea... too alien means too unknowable and nothing to relate to beyond... "oooh cool." Bioware has a long history of constructing their stories around "current and historical issues" here on earth... complete with making social and political "statements" on those issues/events. One underlying theme of Andromeda is that the "enemy is us" and that theme would not be served at all by giving us a more alien and unknowable enemy.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jul 22, 2017 23:40:45 GMT
Andromeda should have been a lot of things that it wasn't.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 23, 2017 1:13:20 GMT
I've actually been thinking about this issue recently myself and there are two obvious conclusions. 1. Lack of expertise with frostbite. 2. Or a creative decision. It's the second one that is the most interesting. Sure maybe more alien aliens are more interesting and maybe it's bad writing that bioware thought they couldn't pull it off. But. Compare the kett to the Reapers. The reapers were allllliiiiieennn. All powerful. Alien design . unknowable. Unsympathetic. Monolithic. More a force of nature then an enemy faction. The Ketts design is part of what suggests the opposite. We can know about them. We can understand them. We can understand their motives. We can reason with them. They have depth and nuance and they have different opinions from one another. Which makes them more interesting then the Reapers. And Cerberus for that matter. I tend to lean towards this idea... too alien means too unknowable and nothing to relate to beyond... "oooh cool." Bioware has a long history of constructing their stories around "current and historical issues" here on earth... complete with making social and political "statements" on those issues/events. One underlying theme of Andromeda is that the "enemy is us" and that theme would not be served at all by giving us a more alien and unknowable enemy. Not saying I disagree because I can see it, especially in the Kett, but I would be curious if you had other instances of this theme to show it is a theme of the overall work because I can think about it with the Kett and maybe the Roekar.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 1:28:02 GMT
Given that the entire point of the Ai is to settle presumably uninhabited pre-selected viable "garden" worlds, I'm not sure what OP was expecting.
The entirety of MEA takes place in a single cluster. There are a crapton of clusters in TMW with no signs of intelligent life or development whatsoever.
When we start ME1, humanity is already participating in the Citadel - we have full knowledge of the various species' and their history. MEA gives us the opportunity to go through that entire process, as we are the newcomers. Getting to know these species from direct experience/exploration is entirely different from getting to know them via codex entries.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 23, 2017 1:30:22 GMT
Given that the entire point of the Ai is to settle presumably uninhabited pre-selected viable "garden" worlds, I'm not sure what OP was expecting. The entirety of MEA takes place in a single cluster. There are a crapton of clusters in TMW with no signs of intelligent life or development whatsoever. When we start ME1, humanity is already participating in the Citadel - we have full knowledge of the various species' and their history. MEA gives us the opportunity to go through that entire process, as we are the newcomers. Getting to know these species from direct experience/exploration is entirely different from getting to know them via codex entries. I will admit I was a bit dissapointed not to see the 'strange new worlds' concept and that some of the artwork looked a lot better. Honestly only two worlds that give off an especially alien vibe are Kadara and Havarl. But its not enough for me to even remove a point from my review score.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 1:54:19 GMT
I tend to lean towards this idea... too alien means too unknowable and nothing to relate to beyond... "oooh cool." Bioware has a long history of constructing their stories around "current and historical issues" here on earth... complete with making social and political "statements" on those issues/events. One underlying theme of Andromeda is that the "enemy is us" and that theme would not be served at all by giving us a more alien and unknowable enemy. Not saying I disagree because I can see it, especially in the Kett, but I would be curious if you had other instances of this theme to show it is a theme of the overall work because I can think about it with the Kett and maybe the Roekar. Well, to start with - the infighting on the Nexus and implications of that. It being the Angara Dr. who is harvesting the yevara... that are of cultural importance to the angara. It being the ex-Cerberus doctors engaging in experiments on some of the colonists Advent and the water vs. gas decision.
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 23, 2017 1:57:56 GMT
I think that the entire premise prevents it from being too alien. We chose the cluster we did because it had a high number of livable worlds, and that means livable to the species that took the journey. By default you're just not going to get something that's too out there because the worlds we chose are similar to the worlds on which we evolved. This means (according to the Mass Effect universe) you'll have oxygen-breathing bipedal species. That said, I still think we've only just scratched the surface of what we might see. The Jardaan are extraordinary, and their technology is far beyond anything we've encountered before. I mean, they can create life. They can engineer a species that has natural procreation. They have huge structures that can terraform entire worlds. We haven't seen the true alien nature of Andromeda yet, because we haven't met the Jardaan yet.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 23, 2017 2:05:08 GMT
Regarding Eos and Veold being "generic ice and desert planets", you do realize there are a ton of planets like that right? Just because we are in another galaxy doesn't mean the rules are different. The laws of physics are universal. Plus we are looking for worlds we can live on so it only makes sense to look at worlds like that.
As for there not being as many alien races, of course there aren't. We are only in one cluster of Andromeda, so of course there are going to be less species than the games where we go all over the galaxy.
In an interview before release, Mac Walters talked about how the plan is that future games will slowly open up more and more of Andromeda rather than how the Shepard Trilogy did it. So we will see more planets, aliens, and civilization that will be introduced.
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Post by ProbeAway on Jul 23, 2017 2:07:09 GMT
Worlds - I would have liked to return to habitat 7, and Eos could have done with a more interesting colour palette, but let's face it: how many of the worlds in the OT felt really alien? Ilos, ME3's Tuchanka, maybe one or two of the ME2 N7 mission worlds... most of the rest were garden, desert, rock or ice. And I think the reason is that this is just what planets look like (at least, the ones you can land on). Once you take away flora and fauna, you're left with barren landscapes. Which brings me to my next point... Species/civilisations/history - The story BW chose was one of a cluster that was supposed to be full of life but had been ravaged by the scourge. There were intentionally very few places left habitable, which creates the tension on the nexus and between the Ai and the outcasts. With that scene set, it would have made no sense to have a bunch of new aliens floating around the cluster (not galaxy). Add in the fact that the Jaardan appeared to have had Prothean-like dominance in the cluster (to the point of creating the only 'native' sentient species we meet) and it makes sense that the new species are few. I would have liked to see some ruins from ancient civilisations but within the confines of BW's narrative that's about all that is missing. Now, if you don't like the fact they went this way with the story then that's another matter entirely. The Kett, I will give you. Aside from their bone armour they don't seem to have much in the way of 'abilities', which is strange for an apparently galaxy-spanning empire that assimilates other species to steal their best traits. They aren't particularly big, fast or strong, they don't seem to have any useful inbuilt melee weapons, they don't have a poison attack, they don't have the ability to alter their skin pigmentation for camouflage... they're just bony bipeds who want to 'exult' us.
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