Monica21
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 24, 2017 16:46:01 GMT
so were there no races native to this cluster? Perhaps remnants of a race that was there before they were wiped out to make room for the Angarans. There were any number of ways they could have gone with a little more imagination or risk. Non humanoid races, that were intelligent, but didn't build cities, anything. The Jardaan were in that cluster. We have no idea if they were native to it, but why not? We don't know enough though, and you sure as heck see "Remnants" of said race. |
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Post by haolyn on Jul 24, 2017 16:48:10 GMT
Nope. This is not a difficult concept. Just nope. edited to add: Did you actually play the game? Because that is definitely not all that Ryder does. Obviously you have not understood what I said. Why would we need a pathfinder for the trip if the planets were already discovered and all it would take would be a few scientists with a few soldiers for protection to scan the planets for what is required? It makes no difference at all what Ryder actually does in the game as he or she is not doing what they were intended to do in the first place. Because a single well trained person with an AI implant can do that job better and with less risk involved. |
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Monica21
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 24, 2017 16:50:39 GMT
Obviously you have not understood what I said. Why would we need a pathfinder for the trip if the planets were already discovered and all it would take would be a few scientists with a few soldiers for protection to scan the planets for what is required? It makes no difference at all what Ryder actually does in the game as he or she is not doing what they were intended to do in the first place. I do understand what you said; I just think you're being deliberately obtuse. At first it's "why need a Pathfinder at all when you just need scientists" and now it's "scientists plus a few soldiers." Which is it? And SAM provides much of the analysis. My theory is that the role of the Pathfinder was not conceived to be a long-term role outside of possible exploration of the rest of the cluster once you settled. The problem is the Scourge. So no, the Pathfinder is not doing what he or she was intending to be doing. That's the entire point of the crash landing on Habitat 7 and subsequent events. It's a "this is not what we hoped for" moment. |
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Post by cypherj on Jul 24, 2017 16:51:41 GMT
I think Habitat 7 kind of ruined things in a way. It was so different and not just a barren planet. It had pockets of what it used to look like and it was not viable due to lightning storms, gravitational problems that ripped off large land masses and put them in the air. It was so different from what you saw later in the game.
Then you get to the story planets and they're just desert, tundra, ice. Places that aren't viable because it's too hot or too cold. Not even volcanic hot like some parts of Aya looked. They didn't come across as planets ruined by the scourge, they just came off as plain desert or ice planets.
Between Alec Ryder and Habitat 7, the prologue had some of the best stuff in the game.
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fchopin
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Post by fchopin on Jul 24, 2017 16:54:30 GMT
So basically the opposite of what Ryder does. They need a scientist to map the planet and discover water, minerals and all that is required for life and technology and not someone to kill everything that stands in the way. This is common in CRPGs where the PC has any identity besides simply being a skilled combatant, isn't it? DAI has the issue also (though it's not a big problem because the Inquisitor doesn't achieve her position as a result of any rational process, so the split between who the Inquisitor really is and who the Inquisitor is supposed to be is an in-universe thing.) DA:O and DA2 don't have the issue at all because being a Grey Warden or the Champion of Kirkwall is fundamentally about combat prowess. The later Ultimas have the problem because you're playing the Avatar, but you mostly just kill stuff. Yes i agree that it is common for RPG's as we have to fight but i would prefer that it makes more sense in the game and that the writers did a better job as it is not that hard to make what is required make sense. |
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jaegerbane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 24, 2017 16:56:41 GMT
Yes i agree that it is common for RPG's as we have to fight but i would prefer that it makes more sense in the game and that the writers did a better job as it is not that hard to make what is required make sense. It does make sense in the game. You're just ignoring the parts that explain it. Like, literally three separate characters, several codex pages and several in-game events within the first few hours of the game answered all your questions but you're still trying to pretend it hit your from out of the blue. |
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Post by cypherj on Jul 24, 2017 16:58:59 GMT
I guess the Pathfinder would have worked better for me if you had actually done some Pathfinding.
I think the game would have worked better if say, you arrived on the Nexus. Went to scout the planets, in an effort to have things in place for when the Arks arrived later in the game. Would have added some urgency to what you were doing.
You didn't even need to run into the Kett right away. You could have been really the first person to meet the Angarans, establish relations, trust. etc. Found out about the vaults from them once they trusted you enough to show it to you. Then you find them on other worlds. Finding things in the performance of your Pathfinder duties.
Then you could have brought in the Kett sometime after you've done some of this and have the game pretty much play out the same. But the way they did it, all the Pathfinder duties were already done when you got there by non Pathfinders, and your only real purpose in the game was fighting Kett and activating vaults.
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Post by fchopin on Jul 24, 2017 17:02:26 GMT
Obviously you have not understood what I said. Why would we need a pathfinder for the trip if the planets were already discovered and all it would take would be a few scientists with a few soldiers for protection to scan the planets for what is required? It makes no difference at all what Ryder actually does in the game as he or she is not doing what they were intended to do in the first place. Because a single well trained person with an AI implant can do that job better and with less risk involved. What do you mean by AI implant? Do you mean the same as for Cora and Liam or was the pathfinder supposed to be different? |
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Post by fchopin on Jul 24, 2017 17:05:15 GMT
Yes i agree that it is common for RPG's as we have to fight but i would prefer that it makes more sense in the game and that the writers did a better job as it is not that hard to make what is required make sense. It does make sense in the game. You're just ignoring the parts that explain it. Like, literally three separate characters, several codex pages and several in-game events within the first few hours of the game answered all your questions but you're still trying to pretend it hit your from out of the blue. If it makes sense then explain it but stop saying that all the answers are in the game for people to read. |
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Post by fchopin on Jul 24, 2017 17:17:28 GMT
So basically the opposite of what Ryder does. They need a scientist to map the planet and discover water, minerals and all that is required for life and technology and not someone to kill everything that stands in the way. By definition - a pathfinder is someone who finds and clears a way. That makes a pathfinder pretty much a jack of all trades. He/she has to basically handle whatever obstacles arise. In games, some form of combat is pretty much a given. Ryder's pathfinding also included a lot of people skills (negotiating abilities), analytical skills, and puzzle solving. You can choose to not fight the animals you encounter simply by giving them a wide berth when driving or walking by them. Some of them will agressively chase you, but taurg, galorns, echidnas, and rylkors and even eirochs will ignore you if you pass them with enough space such that one of your squad does not start engaging with them. Of course, you don't get the XP, but that's really not anything that can't be made up for by fighting other enemies. I like your definition of a pathfinder and wish that i could play like that in the game. |
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Post by sil on Jul 24, 2017 17:21:42 GMT
I would've preferred either the kett or angara being more alien than they are, something other than humanoid, but I accept that they're the way they are. I do feel it was a bit shitty to have the same fauna on each planet though. Even if they had added new creatures based on the animation set of other ones but with new appearances it would've been better.
So I'm okay with the portrayal of sentient species (and if we include the Remnant, then they looked quite unique for the setting), its the fauna that disappointed me. I loved the different types of bugs we saw.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 24, 2017 17:46:09 GMT
If it makes sense then explain it but stop saying that all the answers are in the game for people to read. This is like arguing with an amnesiac. I'm done, dude. All of what you're asking for is already laid out in the thread. I can't force you to read it. |
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 24, 2017 17:46:10 GMT
I mean we go to Andromeda with 5 different species of aliens. With another like 4 or 5 coming with the Quinari ark. But in all of Andromeda we have a whopping 2. Good discussion point for the alien thread. (moving)  |
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 24, 2017 17:57:55 GMT
So I'm okay with the portrayal of sentient species (and if we include the Remnant, then they looked quite unique for the setting), its the fauna that disappointed me. I loved the different types of bugs we saw. Tbh I kind of wished there'd been some kind of genuinely alien bug-like faction. I'm not sure how they would have made them significantly distinct from the Rachni though. |
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 24, 2017 18:07:51 GMT
For fuck's sake it's ONE goddamned cluster. ONE. The only cluster in the MW to have more than one sentient species is the one in which the elcor and asari reside. How do people not get this? I know right? |
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 24, 2017 18:31:29 GMT
For fuck's sake it's ONE goddamned cluster. ONE. The only cluster in the MW to have more than one sentient species is the one in which the elcor and asari reside. How do people not get this? Because reasons. Complaining that a fictional galactic cluster in another galaxy doesn't have 'enough' sentient alien species is the kind of logic one only finds when the basic objective is to complain. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 18:50:00 GMT
By definition - a pathfinder is someone who finds and clears a way. That makes a pathfinder pretty much a jack of all trades. He/she has to basically handle whatever obstacles arise. In games, some form of combat is pretty much a given. Ryder's pathfinding also included a lot of people skills (negotiating abilities), analytical skills, and puzzle solving. You can choose to not fight the animals you encounter simply by giving them a wide berth when driving or walking by them. Some of them will agressively chase you, but taurg, galorns, echidnas, and rylkors and even eirochs will ignore you if you pass them with enough space such that one of your squad does not start engaging with them. Of course, you don't get the XP, but that's really not anything that can't be made up for by fighting other enemies. I like your definition of a pathfinder and wish that i could play like that in the game. A - It's not my definition... it's Merriam-Webster's. B. What it doesn't specify is clearing a path not previously traveled by anyone... which is how you want to play the game. Finding a way to settle differences between to disparate groups is still "finding a way" and, therefore, is "pathfinding." Basically, being a pathfinder is being the "go to guy" in the Initiative... which is who Ryder basically is... and really who any player character winds up being in any game I've played... simply because they are the player character. Bioware just came up with a name they thought encompassed that notion better than "commander" or something more specific... and then they put in a bunch a codex entries that basically tell you you're the "jack of all trades" on the mission. Your mission is to "find a way" to enable the people of the Initiative to settle and thrive in the Heleus Cluster... something the leadership of the Nexus failed to do in the months prior to the arrival of your Ark. |
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Post by suikoden on Jul 24, 2017 18:58:17 GMT
For fuck's sake it's ONE goddamned cluster. ONE. The only cluster in the MW to have more than one sentient species is the one in which the elcor and asari reside. How do people not get this? I know right?  That's just a poor design decision then by the devs. "Hey, what if we limited the game to a single cluster with only two new aliens? And since it's in a small cluster, people will be able to use that as an excuse for our lack of imagination!" |
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 24, 2017 19:32:22 GMT
I know right? That's just a poor design decision then by the devs. "Hey, what if we limited the game to a single cluster with only two new aliens? And since it's in a small cluster, people will be able to use that as an excuse for our lack of imagination!" Says someone who hasn't played the game. Andromeda is huge plenty more to be explored. |
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Jul 24, 2017 19:48:35 GMT
There could have been more planets that were less Western Approach-looking, yes.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 24, 2017 20:10:19 GMT
That's just a poor design decision then by the devs. "Hey, what if we limited the game to a single cluster with only two new aliens? And since it's in a small cluster, people will be able to use that as an excuse for our lack of imagination!" Says someone who hasn't played the game. Andromeda is huge plenty more to be explored. Oh - so you meet more aliens later? |
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Jul 24, 2017 20:11:28 GMT
so were there no races native to this cluster? Perhaps remnants of a race that was there before they were wiped out to make room for the Angarans. There were any number of ways they could have gone with a little more imagination or risk. Non humanoid races, that were intelligent, but didn't build cities, anything. The Jardaan were in that cluster. We have no idea if they were native to it, but why not? We don't know enough though, and you sure as heck see "Remnants" of said race. That wasn't entirely a question. I was kind of offering an idea of why another race would be in that cluster, seeing that none of the races you meet in the game are native to it. People keep saying it's only one cluster, and almost insulting people for saying there could be more than one race there. |
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Post by q5tyhj on Jul 24, 2017 20:16:44 GMT
"Earth-like" in the broadest sense, i.e. having temperatures in a certain range, liquid water, having an atmosphere, etc. That's still a fairly minimal criteria that allows for a broad range of environments that would feel very alien (e.g. Elaaden). It was just disappointing to have this compelling sci-fi premise about migrating to a new galaxy, only to find a bunch of boring, undifferentiated desert or ice environments that look like they could be somewhere on Earth. The planets you visit are planets that have either been listed as golden worlds and/or already have settlements on them, but they are not livable in the long-term. Your job is to do that. I mean, I'm pretty sure that the Site 1 and Site 2 inhabitants of Eos felt like the planet was pretty alien. And as someone else said, the laws of physics still apply. You're not going to attempt to land on a planet with the atmosphere of Venus or of Neptune. That'd be suicide. You want a planet with plants and animals you can eat and with potable water. The weird alien planets that you landed on in ME1 all had something about them that prevented life as we know it from evolving. Too hot, too cold, too much nitrogen, poisonous plants, or a crushing atmosphere. Those are not habitable planets. Again, broadly Earthlike/habitable does not restrict our options to boring desert, or boring ice. Still plenty of options that would be much more alien, or at the very least interesting; Elaaden demonstrates as much. This is all plainly non-sequitur (as is the bit about the Angara being engineered: nothing about being engineered entails that they must be boring). If you liked the environments and new races that we got, that's great, more power to you. But its hardly the case that they could not have been any different given the premise of the story, or that its some outlandish or unreasonable expectation to want alien, unique, and/or interesting environments in an open-world sci-fi game. |
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Post by q5tyhj on Jul 24, 2017 20:19:00 GMT
I think Habitat 7 kind of ruined things in a way. It was so different and not just a barren planet. It had pockets of what it used to look like and it was not viable due to lightning storms, gravitational problems that ripped off large land masses and put them in the air. It was so different from what you saw later in the game. Then you get to the story planets and they're just desert, tundra, ice. Places that aren't viable because it's too hot or too cold. Not even volcanic hot like some parts of Aya looked. They didn't come across as planets ruined by the scourge, they just came off as plain desert or ice planets. Yep, good call. Habitat 7 was very cool. Elaaden too. All the same-ish desert and ice planets, not so much. |
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Post by newguy on Jul 24, 2017 20:22:24 GMT
To answer the question if ME:A should be more alien? Short version: YES. Slightly longer version: I can't help but get the feeling i'm playing ME3 again. So much is the same. I haven't finished the main storyline yet, because i couldn't get past those horrible facial stuff at the start. Now that's much better i'm starting to pick up the singleplayer again. But can't help to see much similarities to ME2 and 3. Andromeda has its own Collector/Prothean drama, some kind of all ending power which ends all worlds, same stupid villain that 'justifies' his actions by some 'you can't understand hence i won't explain myself' answers. (keep in mind, this opinion might change once i progress the story off course). But until now, it all sounds way to familiar for Andromeda to be an all new galaxy. 2 new races in an entire galaxy, they even borrowed the 'demon spiders' from DAI. Wel, they are not the same, but look much like them. So yes, ME:A should me much, much more alien imo. 'We are the aliens', but so far i never felt like that tbh. All those things aside, i still like the game, even with all it's annoying bugs and annoying bugs  and am slightly curious on how the story unfolds. Please no spoilers if you reply to my post i'm not reading the other posts on this threads because i don't want to accidentally bump in to one:) thanks for reading, and have a nice day. |
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and am slightly curious on how the story unfolds.