Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien?

Jul 24, 2017 22:35:54 GMT GeneralXIV said:

Yup, very much so

Everything feels very... human-like, one of my complaints is that in the Andromeda Initiative, you could literally replace every alien npc model with a human and it wouldnt make a great deal of difference. It feels like they upped the alien with the kett and angara but forgot about the milky way races, their inter-species relations and general idk racial personalities I guess would be a way of saying it... in the previous ME games it was like every race almost had a purpose or a unique trait, and their positions werent really interchangeable, like you couldnt have had Krogan dancers on Omega, or Geth being the aggressive race which were victims of the genophage, it just wouldnt work... in Andromeda though its like 99% of what makes the races in Mass Effect unique are gone, and the alien species we have in Andromeda arent too special either. The remnant are just machines, the Kett are a race of religious aliens who want to convert everyone else, and the Angara are the ones who are being attacked/fighting back... I think we've lost a lot of alienness, but also a lot of complexity and uniqueness of the alienness too

In terms of the environments, the only one that really struck me as alien was Havarl, because I got Pandora vibes... other than that there were 2 deserts, an ice planet, a weird swamp-type-planet and idk ive probably forgotten some I havent played the game in a long time, but most of the locations were like ones you could find on earth, nothing special and mostly empty. They could have made it more alien by having more urban areas beyond small outposts... I mean if an alien came to earth and was like "Hi! I want to know things about you", you wouldnt send them to a desert or a swamp or the arctic somewhere, youd send them to a city because for better or for worse, a city is where you learn most about a culture, and its missing in MEA. Large empty places with earth-like environments doesnt feel alien. Like there was nothing actually alien about them apart from the remnant vaults and idk maybe some plants. Between a black hole, the scourge, advanced alien technology and a completely different galaxy, it would have been really easy to create some unique planets. Even the descriptions of some you could find in ME1 were more unique than the planets you could explore in Andromeda... the maps were fine to drive around in, but not so good at conveying a tone of an alien world I dont think

Remember, though, that all the planets we are exploring were supposed to be habitable planets for the Milky Way species. Therefore they should feel fairly recognizable. Another poster had explained this perfectly. You aren't going to settle Turians on a methane gas world or Asari on a water world or humans on a world made up of moving turtles. Alien, sure. But does it make sense in the story? Not at all. Same goes for the number of alien races. If you were doing to settle somewhere new, would you take your people to a place fun of unknown civilizations that might kill you straight off? NO! You would go to an uninhabited region. Everything they did makes sense if you think about the reason they left and what they were trying to do.

If that's boring to you, well, that's your right to feel that way. For me, I like when my story makes sense in a game.

It is a good point

But idk just something unusual would have benefited the game so much, it wasnt boring at all, but id have liked more. More alienness/alien culture but also more that set the game apart from other sci-fi stuff

It doesnt have to make the planet uninhabitable (although the remnant vaults terraform anyway so it would work if one of the world's you go to wasnt chosen by the Initiative but ends up being colonized after)... just something like an unusual weather pattern or well anything would have made it feel like you were exploring an actual alien world.

q5tyhj
N5

deadhead chemistry

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: q5tyhj
Posts: 2,627 Likes: 7,432

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 24, 2017 23:01:13 GMT maximusarael020 and suikoden like this

Quote

Post by q5tyhj on Jul 24, 2017 23:01:13 GMT

Remember, though, that all the planets we are exploring were supposed to be habitable planets for the Milky Way species. Therefore they should feel fairly recognizable. Another poster had explained this perfectly.

Remember, though, that this is still just as non-sequitur as it was the first time around- at least, if the conclusion is supposed to be that the planets couldn't have been more alien or at least more aesthetically interesting than they were. Havarl was habitable, but it was both alien and aesthetically interesting. Plenty of other variations that would still satisfy this minimal criteria. It simply does not follow that because these planets must be Earth-like enough to be habitable, they therefore must be nondescript ice or desert planets; being habitable/broadly Earthlike still leaves a good deal more leeway for variety or alien-ness than MEA actually had. If you were satisfied with the environments we got, that's great, but its not the case that they were the only possible options given the lore/narrative constraints (which are self-imposed anyways).

Last Edit: Jul 24, 2017 23:07:57 GMT by q5tyhj

I couldn't tame that beast with a handful of meat

q5tyhj
N5

deadhead chemistry

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: q5tyhj
Posts: 2,627 Likes: 7,432

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 24, 2017 23:05:54 GMT maximusarael020 likes this

Quote

Post by q5tyhj on Jul 24, 2017 23:05:54 GMT

Jul 24, 2017 22:57:47 GMT GeneralXIV said:

It doesnt have to make the planet uninhabitable (although the remnant vaults terraform anyway so it would work if one of the world's you go to wasnt chosen by the Initiative but ends up being colonized after)... just something like an unusual weather pattern or well anything would have made it feel like you were exploring an actual alien world.

Yup. The main thing that makes Havarl feel alien and interesting is the unusual colors (the plants, the sky, etc.). As was pointed out a page or two back, all it took to make Habitat 7 look alien and interesting (at least, a good deal more so than most of the planets we got) was some odd looking plants and some lightning. Being habitable and having an alien/unique/interesting aesthetic are not mutually exclusive.

Last Edit: Jul 24, 2017 23:06:33 GMT by q5tyhj

I couldn't tame that beast with a handful of meat

Hanako Ikezawa
N7

Scribbles

Posts: 22,991 Likes: 31,578

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 24, 2017 23:11:28 GMT kino, smilesja, and 3 more like this

Quote

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 24, 2017 23:11:28 GMT

Jul 24, 2017 23:05:54 GMT q5tyhj said:

Jul 24, 2017 22:57:47 GMT GeneralXIV said:

It doesnt have to make the planet uninhabitable (although the remnant vaults terraform anyway so it would work if one of the world's you go to wasnt chosen by the Initiative but ends up being colonized after)... just something like an unusual weather pattern or well anything would have made it feel like you were exploring an actual alien world.

Yup. The main thing that makes Havarl feel alien and interesting is the unusual colors (the plants, the sky, etc.). As was pointed out a page or two back, all it took to make Habitat 7 look alien and interesting (at least, a good deal more so than most of the planets we got) was some odd looking plants and some lightning. Being habitable and having an alien/unique/interesting aesthetic are not mutually exclusive.

My personal favorite in terms of design is Elaaden, since it seems the people who designed it really did their homework when it comes to what a world like that could be like. Not only is their a jovian planet dominating its sky, but since it orbits a blue star the sky is a different shade of blue than Earth and the plants have red leaves instead of green.

Last Edit: Jul 24, 2017 23:15:36 GMT by Hanako Ikezawa

suikoden
N4

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 1,692 Likes: 1,574

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 24, 2017 23:31:26 GMT

Quote

Post by suikoden on Jul 24, 2017 23:31:26 GMT

Jul 24, 2017 22:35:54 GMT GeneralXIV said:

Yup, very much so

Everything feels very... human-like, one of my complaints is that in the Andromeda Initiative, you could literally replace every alien npc model with a human and it wouldnt make a great deal of difference. It feels like they upped the alien with the kett and angara but forgot about the milky way races, their inter-species relations and general idk racial personalities I guess would be a way of saying it... in the previous ME games it was like every race almost had a purpose or a unique trait, and their positions werent really interchangeable, like you couldnt have had Krogan dancers on Omega, or Geth being the aggressive race which were victims of the genophage, it just wouldnt work... in Andromeda though its like 99% of what makes the races in Mass Effect unique are gone, and the alien species we have in Andromeda arent too special either. The remnant are just machines, the Kett are a race of religious aliens who want to convert everyone else, and the Angara are the ones who are being attacked/fighting back... I think we've lost a lot of alienness, but also a lot of complexity and uniqueness of the alienness too

In terms of the environments, the only one that really struck me as alien was Havarl, because I got Pandora vibes... other than that there were 2 deserts, an ice planet, a weird swamp-type-planet and idk ive probably forgotten some I havent played the game in a long time, but most of the locations were like ones you could find on earth, nothing special and mostly empty. They could have made it more alien by having more urban areas beyond small outposts... I mean if an alien came to earth and was like "Hi! I want to know things about you", you wouldnt send them to a desert or a swamp or the arctic somewhere, youd send them to a city because for better or for worse, a city is where you learn most about a culture, and its missing in MEA. Large empty places with earth-like environments doesnt feel alien. Like there was nothing actually alien about them apart from the remnant vaults and idk maybe some plants. Between a black hole, the scourge, advanced alien technology and a completely different galaxy, it would have been really easy to create some unique planets. Even the descriptions of some you could find in ME1 were more unique than the planets you could explore in Andromeda... the maps were fine to drive around in, but not so good at conveying a tone of an alien world I dont think

Remember, though, that all the planets we are exploring were supposed to be habitable planets for the Milky Way species. Therefore they should feel fairly recognizable. Another poster had explained this perfectly. You aren't going to settle Turians on a methane gas world or Asari on a water world or humans on a world made up of moving turtles. Alien, sure. But does it make sense in the story? Not at all. Same goes for the number of alien races. If you were doing to settle somewhere new, would you take your people to a place fun of unknown civilizations that might kill you straight off? NO! You would go to an uninhabited region. Everything they did makes sense if you think about the reason they left and what they were trying to do.

If that's boring to you, well, that's your right to feel that way. For me, I like when my story makes sense in a game.

Then it's lazy storytelling. I can understand that you like the story and everything makes sense to you - but the potential was there for so much more than the milky-way 2.0.

This is from the highest English-language review for Andromeda on metacritic: "One of the things I wondered is why Andromeda is so much like the Milky Way. Surely another Galaxy – zillions of miles away – should be completely alien. But no, the dominant life forms are bipedal organics with two eyes and a mouth. Sigh. There’s nothing even as interesting as the original trilogy’s Hanar and Elcor, and that’s a crying shame."
cogconnected.com/review/mass-effect-andromeda-review/

Almost every single review, positive or negative, expresses disappointment in some form or another at how Bioware chose to play it safe. You can still love the game, but admitting this is one area it didn't get quite right - or live up to its full potential, is a positive thing for the devs to hear. Just going, "No! Everything makes sense! It's just a small cluster!" merely lets them off the hook.

Blood, Sweat, and Pixels: The Triumphant, Turbulent Stories Behind How Video Games Are Made - on sale September 5th!!

KaiserShep
N7

Glorious Star Lord

Party like it's 2023!

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 9,233 Likes: 16,819

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 24, 2017 23:31:35 GMT smilesja likes this

Quote

Post by KaiserShep on Jul 24, 2017 23:31:35 GMT

Jul 24, 2017 23:11:28 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

Jul 24, 2017 23:05:54 GMT q5tyhj said:

Yup. The main thing that makes Havarl feel alien and interesting is the unusual colors (the plants, the sky, etc.). As was pointed out a page or two back, all it took to make Habitat 7 look alien and interesting (at least, a good deal more so than most of the planets we got) was some odd looking plants and some lightning. Being habitable and having an alien/unique/interesting aesthetic are not mutually exclusive.

My personal favorite in terms of design is Elaaden, since it seems the people who designed it really did their homework when it comes to what a world like that could be like. Not only is their a jovian planet dominating its sky, but since it orbits a blue star the sky is a different shade of blue than Earth and the plants have red leaves instead of green.

Yeah I never tire of Elaaden. Eos and Kadara are pretty basic earth-like planets, but they very much remind me of the old planets I visited in ME1, namely Eletania, and of course there are numerous regular desert planets.

Art stuff in there! -> robthedoodler.deviantart.com and my Tumblr blog -> doodleofboredom.com

smilesja
N7

The Smiling Knight

Posts: 14,567 Likes: 24,097

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 24, 2017 23:50:50 GMT maximusarael020 likes this

Quote

Post by smilesja on Jul 24, 2017 23:50:50 GMT

Remember, though, that all the planets we are exploring were supposed to be habitable planets for the Milky Way species. Therefore they should feel fairly recognizable. Another poster had explained this perfectly. You aren't going to settle Turians on a methane gas world or Asari on a water world or humans on a world made up of moving turtles. Alien, sure. But does it make sense in the story? Not at all. Same goes for the number of alien races. If you were doing to settle somewhere new, would you take your people to a place fun of unknown civilizations that might kill you straight off? NO! You would go to an uninhabited region. Everything they did makes sense if you think about the reason they left and what they were trying to do.

If that's boring to you, well, that's your right to feel that way. For me, I like when my story makes sense in a game.

Almost every single review, positive or negative, expresses disappointment in some form or another at how Bioware chose to play it safe. You can still love the game, but admitting this is one area it didn't get quite right - or live up to its full potential, is a positive thing for the devs to hear. Just going, "No! Everything makes sense! It's just a small cluster!" merely lets them off the hook.

But he didn't find it a problem, just because others felt that way doesn't mean he has to. I think Bioware mentioned that they will expand on Andromeda in future games, the first game is just the Initiative getting settled down on the Golden Worlds.

Last Edit: Jul 24, 2017 23:51:39 GMT by smilesja

"Demoman takes SKILL!"

maximusarael020
N4

Champion of the Raven Queen

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: MaximusArael020
Posts: 1,651 Likes: 3,489

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 24, 2017 23:52:03 GMT via mobile smilesja, kharsis, and 2 more like this

Quote

Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 24, 2017 23:52:03 GMT

Remember, though, that all the planets we are exploring were supposed to be habitable planets for the Milky Way species. Therefore they should feel fairly recognizable. Another poster had explained this perfectly. You aren't going to settle Turians on a methane gas world or Asari on a water world or humans on a world made up of moving turtles. Alien, sure. But does it make sense in the story? Not at all. Same goes for the number of alien races. If you were doing to settle somewhere new, would you take your people to a place fun of unknown civilizations that might kill you straight off? NO! You would go to an uninhabited region. Everything they did makes sense if you think about the reason they left and what they were trying to do.

If that's boring to you, well, that's your right to feel that way. For me, I like when my story makes sense in a game.

Then it's lazy storytelling. I can understand that you like the story and everything makes sense to you - but the potential was there for so much more than the milky-way 2.0.

This is from the highest English-language review for Andromeda on metacritic: "One of the things I wondered is why Andromeda is so much like the Milky Way. Surely another Galaxy – zillions of miles away – should be completely alien. But no, the dominant life forms are bipedal organics with two eyes and a mouth. Sigh. There’s nothing even as interesting as the original trilogy’s Hanar and Elcor, and that’s a crying shame."
cogconnected.com/review/mass-effect-andromeda-review/

Almost every single review, positive or negative, expresses disappointment in some form or another at how Bioware chose to play it safe. You can still love the game, but admitting this is one area it didn't get quite right - or live up to its full potential, is a positive thing for the devs to hear. Just going, "No! Everything makes sense! It's just a small cluster!" merely lets them off the hook.

Let's them off the hook? For what?

People get mad when they break the lore, then they get mad when the stick too closely to it? We never encountered a species like the Kett in the OT. Taking a species, Exalting them to make them one of your own? How does that work? Is the individual trapped inside? How do you make them loyal? What are the original Kett like? Is this technology or biology? So many questions about just one species. I think it's trilling.

Plus it gives us so much to look forward to. The Jardaan, who are they? What are they like? Did they make any other species in different clusters? Are there sentient Remnant? We've had a race trying to wipe out almost every species, never one creating them.

I never thought the planets didn't feel alien enough. They were certainly as alien as any planet we visited in the OT.

I just don't quite get it. "Being Alien" was never really a draw for people for the OT. Why now? Why suddenly is everything people liked about the OT not good enough for Andromeda? Everywhere you went in the OT looked as much like earth as anything else. So because we are in a different galaxy everything must be so much different? There should be as much difference between any two clusters as there would be between any two galaxies. Please, tell me why I'm wrong in that assumption. If people were fine with Asari and Salarian and Turians and Quarians and Drell and Vorcha and Batarians and Protheans, they should be fine with Angara and Kett.

"Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man."
- The Dude

ATR16
N3

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
Origin: ATR16
XBL Gamertag: pydsie31
PSN: pyder31
Posts: 367 Likes: 603

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 24, 2017 23:52:20 GMT q5tyhj and suikoden like this

Quote

Post by ATR16 on Jul 24, 2017 23:52:20 GMT

I think the familiarity of the galaxy was the first big blow to my enthusiasm for the game. I remember hearing "new galaxy, new aliens" but then once they got around the marketing what little bits of finished material they had, it was all "look at the Turian lady, and here is a Krogan, and Asari! You 'member them? Here is a zillion humans. You 'member humans! You are humans! Awe look, 'member Salarians?" and I was immediately frowny faced. While I didn't need 500 new races, I wanted to feel like I was the newbie in their world, and that just never happened. A whole lot of telling and not showing, which is the opposite of what you want.

Then spending basically the entire game being told "wow, we aren't in the milky way anymore" but then everything was still basically like the milky way except we had some new robots and 2 new alien races sprinkled around. You could have told me that the game was set in the Terminus Systems or Far Rim/Perseus Veil and I would have believed you.

The writing and execution were really poor for a Bioware game. And that's usually the strongest.

maximusarael020
N4

Champion of the Raven Queen

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: MaximusArael020
Posts: 1,651 Likes: 3,489

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 0:00:18 GMT via mobile smilesja, shechinah, and 3 more like this

Quote

Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 25, 2017 0:00:18 GMT

The point is this. You might have thought that Andromeda needed more alien races and more alien locations. That's fine, and that's your opinion. Perfectly acceptable and I won't say you are wrong for feeling that way. What some of us here are saying is that the fact that not every planet is a reverse-gravity floating turtle tree lighting planet makes sense in the narrative. The fact that there aren't 5 different races with huge cities colonizing each planet makes sense in the narrative.

If you want more aliens, fine! Great!
But don't ever call it lazy development or poor writing when they follow their own lore and narrative and you can't see past your own prejudice. Wanting something is fine. Calling them lazy bad at writing shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the source material.

"Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man."
- The Dude

Deleted
Deleted Member

Posts: 0

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 0:01:06 GMT smilesja, maximusarael020, and 2 more like this

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 0:01:06 GMT

I wish people would give some acknowledgment to the alien-ness that does exist on Eos:

1) Our first views of remnant pillars, covered in strange light-emitting glyphs and monoliths.

2) Pockets of scourge growing all over the place... that expands each time you clear out an area.

3) Red water lakes, one of which is very large (for a desert planet why hasn't all that water evaporated)? ... and the redness of the water persists even after you reset the vault

4) A whole massive field of kett tower-like structures.

Moving onto Voeld:

Large ice spires (but not really ice) spires and fissures all over the place that glow with blue light.

A city with a huge shield over it... not to mention that city is literally locked into the ice

Elaaden:

A freaking huge mechanical worm running around the dunes like a freight train.

suikoden
N4

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 1,692 Likes: 1,574

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 0:13:19 GMT

Quote

Post by suikoden on Jul 25, 2017 0:13:19 GMT

The point is this. You might have thought that Andromeda needed more alien races and more alien locations. That's fine, and that's your opinion. Perfectly acceptable and I won't say you are wrong for feeling that way. What some of us here are saying is that the fact that not every planet is a reverse-gravity floating turtle tree lighting planet makes sense in the narrative. The fact that there aren't 5 different races with huge cities colonizing each planet makes sense in the narrative.

If you want more aliens, fine! Great!
But don't ever call it lazy development or poor writing when they follow their own lore and narrative and you can't see past your own prejudice. Wanting something is fine. Calling them lazy bad at writing shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the source material.

It's like writing a university paper and then citing a mere 2 sources. The essay could still be amazing, but it's getting dinged for only having 2 sources (especially when your first essay had 9 which were efficiently interwoven).

If you want less aliens, fine! Great!
But in my book that's lazy development. I could see this being part of the reason why there wasn't much promotional material before the game was released - the less the buying public knew about Andromeda's flaws, and what was lacking, the better. Which makes the early access such a strange choice... They should have known it would backfire.

Blood, Sweat, and Pixels: The Triumphant, Turbulent Stories Behind How Video Games Are Made - on sale September 5th!!

kino
N4

The path up and down are one and the same.

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
Posts: 2,067 Likes: 4,060

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 0:17:03 GMT Hanako Ikezawa, maximusarael020, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by kino on Jul 25, 2017 0:17:03 GMT

Jul 24, 2017 23:11:28 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

Jul 24, 2017 23:05:54 GMT q5tyhj said:

Yup. The main thing that makes Havarl feel alien and interesting is the unusual colors (the plants, the sky, etc.). As was pointed out a page or two back, all it took to make Habitat 7 look alien and interesting (at least, a good deal more so than most of the planets we got) was some odd looking plants and some lightning. Being habitable and having an alien/unique/interesting aesthetic are not mutually exclusive.

My personal favorite in terms of design is Elaaden, since it seems the people who designed it really did their homework when it comes to what a world like that could be like. Not only is their a jovian planet dominating its sky, but since it orbits a blue star the sky is a different shade of blue than Earth and the plants have red leaves instead of green.

Excellent point. Most people wouldn't wonder twice why the leaves are red, not green, under a blue star. It does look as if the designers took the time to contact at least a couple of planetary scientists.

"To hate blindly is as dangerous as to trust blindly." An old Angaran saying.

Origin ID: kinom001

maximusarael020
N4

Champion of the Raven Queen

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: MaximusArael020
Posts: 1,651 Likes: 3,489

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 0:21:06 GMT smilesja, colfoley, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 25, 2017 0:21:06 GMT

The point is this. You might have thought that Andromeda needed more alien races and more alien locations. That's fine, and that's your opinion. Perfectly acceptable and I won't say you are wrong for feeling that way. What some of us here are saying is that the fact that not every planet is a reverse-gravity floating turtle tree lighting planet makes sense in the narrative. The fact that there aren't 5 different races with huge cities colonizing each planet makes sense in the narrative.

If you want more aliens, fine! Great!
But don't ever call it lazy development or poor writing when they follow their own lore and narrative and you can't see past your own prejudice. Wanting something is fine. Calling them lazy bad at writing shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the source material.

It's like writing a university paper and then citing a mere 2 sources. The essay could still be amazing, but it's getting dinged for only having 2 sources (especially when your first essay had 9 which were efficiently interwoven).

If you want less aliens, fine! Great!
But in my book that's lazy development. I could see this being part of the reason why there wasn't much promotional material before the game was released - the less the buying public knew about Andromeda's flaws, and what was lacking, the better. Which makes the early access such a strange choice... They should have known it would backfire.

Technically, in your example, those papers would share the same 4 sources, so one would have 7 and the other 9, with two differing sources.

(Since there are 3 new races you encounter in Andromeda).

"Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man."
- The Dude

colfoley
N7

Posts: 19,120 Likes: 36,883

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 0:28:29 GMT via mobile smilesja, maximusarael020, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by colfoley on Jul 25, 2017 0:28:29 GMT

The point is this. You might have thought that Andromeda needed more alien races and more alien locations. That's fine, and that's your opinion. Perfectly acceptable and I won't say you are wrong for feeling that way. What some of us here are saying is that the fact that not every planet is a reverse-gravity floating turtle tree lighting planet makes sense in the narrative. The fact that there aren't 5 different races with huge cities colonizing each planet makes sense in the narrative.

If you want more aliens, fine! Great!
But don't ever call it lazy development or poor writing when they follow their own lore and narrative and you can't see past your own prejudice. Wanting something is fine. Calling them lazy bad at writing shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the source material.

It's like writing a university paper and then citing a mere 2 sources. The essay could still be amazing, but it's getting dinged for only having 2 sources (especially when your first essay had 9 which were efficiently interwoven).

If you want less aliens, fine! Great!
But in my book that's lazy development. I could see this being part of the reason why there wasn't much promotional material before the game was released - the less the buying public knew about Andromeda's flaws, and what was lacking, the better. Which makes the early access such a strange choice... They should have known it would backfire.

a video game is not a college essay.

Patreon
(for my writing, posting chapters of my novel)

q5tyhj
N5

deadhead chemistry

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: q5tyhj
Posts: 2,627 Likes: 7,432

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 0:48:33 GMT maximusarael020 likes this

Quote

Post by q5tyhj on Jul 25, 2017 0:48:33 GMT

The point is this. You might have thought that Andromeda needed more alien races and more alien locations. That's fine, and that's your opinion. Perfectly acceptable and I won't say you are wrong for feeling that way. What some of us here are saying is that the fact that not every planet is a reverse-gravity floating turtle tree lighting planet makes sense in the narrative. The fact that there aren't 5 different races with huge cities colonizing each planet makes sense in the narrative.

Sure, what we got made sense in the context of the narrative. And as you mention, the topic question is almost entirely a matter of taste- either view is perfectly acceptable and legitimate, and talking about right or wrong makes no sense in this context (there are no right tastes or opinions- this is a category mistake). But what myself and others have pointed out is that plenty of other things would also have made sense in the context of the narrative, namely a more diverse/alien/aesthetically interesting or unique set of planets, and/or more than 2 new species. Both alternatives are consistent with the narrative, and so consistency with the narrative can't be used to arbitrate between the two, or to argue that those who were dissatisfied with the planets we got are being unreasonable (as at least one poster has done here).

Last Edit: Jul 25, 2017 4:43:12 GMT by q5tyhj

I couldn't tame that beast with a handful of meat

Deleted
Deleted Member

Posts: 0

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 0:59:50 GMT smilesja, maximusarael020, and 3 more like this

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 0:59:50 GMT

The point is this. You might have thought that Andromeda needed more alien races and more alien locations. That's fine, and that's your opinion. Perfectly acceptable and I won't say you are wrong for feeling that way. What some of us here are saying is that the fact that not every planet is a reverse-gravity floating turtle tree lighting planet makes sense in the narrative. The fact that there aren't 5 different races with huge cities colonizing each planet makes sense in the narrative.

If you want more aliens, fine! Great!
But don't ever call it lazy development or poor writing when they follow their own lore and narrative and you can't see past your own prejudice. Wanting something is fine. Calling them lazy bad at writing shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the source material.

It's like writing a university paper and then citing a mere 2 sources. The essay could still be amazing, but it's getting dinged for only having 2 sources (especially when your first essay had 9 which were efficiently interwoven).

If you want less aliens, fine! Great!
But in my book that's lazy development. I could see this being part of the reason why there wasn't much promotional material before the game was released - the less the buying public knew about Andromeda's flaws, and what was lacking, the better. Which makes the early access such a strange choice... They should have known it would backfire.

If you write a college essay and cite a bunch of sources that are not relevant to the essay just for the sake of having a long list of sources, you will probably get docked for that.

maximusarael020
N4

Champion of the Raven Queen

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: MaximusArael020
Posts: 1,651 Likes: 3,489

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 1:09:13 GMT colfoley, Monica21, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 25, 2017 1:09:13 GMT

Jul 25, 2017 0:59:50 GMT @upupaway95 said:

It's like writing a university paper and then citing a mere 2 sources. The essay could still be amazing, but it's getting dinged for only having 2 sources (especially when your first essay had 9 which were efficiently interwoven).

If you want less aliens, fine! Great!
But in my book that's lazy development. I could see this being part of the reason why there wasn't much promotional material before the game was released - the less the buying public knew about Andromeda's flaws, and what was lacking, the better. Which makes the early access such a strange choice... They should have known it would backfire.

If you write a college essay and cite a bunch of sources that are not relevant to the essay just for the sake of having a long list of sources, you will probably get docked for that.

I love you, man.

"Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man."
- The Dude

Vortex13
N4

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 2,202 Likes: 3,228

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 1:37:02 GMT

Quote

Post by Vortex13 on Jul 25, 2017 1:37:02 GMT

Jul 24, 2017 22:02:24 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

Jul 24, 2017 21:46:24 GMT suikoden said:

So if there are 9 races in ME1, and if the Quarian DLC comes out and results in MEA having 13-14 races, then by your logic ME1 is lazier than MEA. And yes, the Milky Way races count towards the number because as you said this is a video game. And as a video game, it has limitations so to include returning races that meant adding less new ones. Same reason why ME2 and ME3 introduced less new races.

It's not so much the quantity of alien races, but their quality (IMO).

BioWare could add fifty new alien species to Andromeda via DLC and/or sequels, but if they're all just humans with blue/green skin and a rubber prosthetic glued to their forehead then the game will still not be very 'alien'. In fact, it would probably be even more human-centric since the setting would be so diluted with people exactly like us in every way, save for appearance. It was rather disappointing to come all the way to Andromeda, across the depths of dark space, and the first friendly natives we run into are practical mirror images of us in terms of cultural norms and general reliability; heck, they were even more human-like than the Asari, which is saying something. Even the Khet come across as just bony humans once the narrative actually allows Ryder the chance to talk to them. There is no 'other' in Andromeda, no quality writing along the lines of say your aliens like the Rachni, or (ME 2) Geth.

Now I'm not saying that species like the ones mentioned above were the best examples of 'alien' writing in any mainstream science fiction ever, but it does bear mentioning how much more nuanced ME 1 was with its various takes on life, how it perceives the universe around it; at how humanity, and our way of thinking or doing things was just a small, small part of a much, much larger universe. Compare that to Andromeda and it's seemingly underlying theme of "Pretty Good Banging" when it came to depicting things and one can begin to see why people are saying ME:A wasn't very 'alien'.

Last Edit: Jul 25, 2017 1:40:14 GMT by Vortex13

The more I learn about these aliens, the more I come to understand what drives them, the more I hate them. I hate them for what they are and for what they may one day become. I hate them not because they hate us, but because they are incapable of good, honest human hatred.
-Inquisitor Agmar

Human, your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater.
- Harbinger

alanc9
N7

Old Scientist Contrarian

Posts: 8,050 Likes: 9,648

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 1:38:33 GMT Hanako Ikezawa, maximusarael020, and 3 more like this

Quote

Post by alanc9 on Jul 25, 2017 1:38:33 GMT

This is from the highest English-language review for Andromeda on metacritic: "One of the things I wondered is why Andromeda is so much like the Milky Way. Surely another Galaxy – zillions of miles away – should be completely alien. But no, the dominant life forms are bipedal organics with two eyes and a mouth. Sigh. There’s nothing even as interesting as the original trilogy’s Hanar and Elcor, and that’s a crying shame."
cogconnected.com/review/mass-effect-andromeda-review/

Wait a minute. That argument is idiotic. Which galaxy you're in has nothing to do with whether bipeds are dominant. Sapient species in both galaxies evolved in isolation from each other; four light-years or four million light-years lead to exactly the same amount of contact. If bipeds are more common in the MW, they should be more common in Andromeda too. That's just how evolution works in the MEU.

Put another way, this is a problem in ME:A only to the extent that it's a problem with ME1.

There's a sensible version of this argument to be made -Vortex13's giving it a decent shot -- but this version is nonsense.

Last Edit: Jul 25, 2017 1:44:21 GMT by alanc9

Hanako Ikezawa
N7

Scribbles

Posts: 22,991 Likes: 31,578

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 4:11:06 GMT smilesja and maximusarael020 like this

Quote

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 25, 2017 4:11:06 GMT

Jul 25, 2017 1:37:02 GMT Vortex13 said:

Jul 24, 2017 22:02:24 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

So if there are 9 races in ME1, and if the Quarian DLC comes out and results in MEA having 13-14 races, then by your logic ME1 is lazier than MEA. And yes, the Milky Way races count towards the number because as you said this is a video game. And as a video game, it has limitations so to include returning races that meant adding less new ones. Same reason why ME2 and ME3 introduced less new races.

It's not so much the quantity of alien races, but their quality (IMO).

BioWare could add fifty new alien species to Andromeda via DLC and/or sequels, but if they're all just humans with blue/green skin and a rubber prosthetic glued to their forehead then the game will still not be very 'alien'. In fact, it would probably be even more human-centric since the setting would be so diluted with people exactly like us in every way, save for appearance. It was rather disappointing to come all the way to Andromeda, across the depths of dark space, and the first friendly natives we run into are practical mirror images of us in terms of cultural norms and general reliability; heck, they were even more human-like than the Asari, which is saying something. Even the Khet come across as just bony humans once the narrative actually allows Ryder the chance to talk to them. There is no 'other' in Andromeda, no quality writing along the lines of say your aliens like the Rachni, or (ME 2) Geth.

Now I'm not saying that species like the ones mentioned above were the best examples of 'alien' writing in any mainstream science fiction ever, but it does bear mentioning how much more nuanced ME 1 was with its various takes on life, how it perceives the universe around it; at how humanity, and our way of thinking or doing things was just a small, small part of a much, much larger universe. Compare that to Andromeda and it's seemingly underlying theme of "Pretty Good Banging" when it came to depicting things and one can begin to see why people are saying ME:A wasn't very 'alien'.

That's a fair point. I've said it before in discussions like this, but one series I think does a good job at the aliens being relatable yet alien is Halo. Sure there are some that have similarities but overall you can't really say they are "alien version of this culture". And even those ones look unique compared to humans. Then there are the truly alien ones.

KaiserShep
N7

Glorious Star Lord

Party like it's 2023!

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 9,233 Likes: 16,819

Honestly, should Andromeda been a bit more alien? Jul 25, 2017 4:36:38 GMT smilesja, maximusarael020, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by KaiserShep on Jul 25, 2017 4:36:38 GMT