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Post by smilesja on Aug 1, 2017 7:01:46 GMT
Don't know about that. For an example, I'd consider Liam as a character study of what happens when a person who does not have the title of the main character nor the plot armor that comes with it tries to do something crazy but well intentioned. It nearly ends up ruining the Initiative and he has to look rely on Ryder to get out of his situation that he created. Sure, but that kind of outsider looking in perspective is not what's being done with Bull. It's purely about his psychology, not so much as a character that was written but more like a person with the kind of messy and complicated snare of push and pull that makes you who you are. And it's intelligible and recognizable and relatable. Which makes him a well written character, by my definition. Not a novel interpretation of an archetype or an interesting contrast to the PC plot armored heroics. Well, what's nuanced is dependent on your perspective. I found the ME: A just as nuanced as DA: I with more to come.
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Post by merlinistyle on Aug 1, 2017 7:04:41 GMT
You realise, that the fact, that you hate him so much, the fact that he disguises you so much, only proves, what a good work BW have made with him. Because you know... you just dont like THIS KIND OF PERSON. Your hate finds place only towards his behaviour, actions, speech etc. Not because he is badly written. Just dont bring him on missions and dont speak with him, what's the problem To add my opinion, i really dont like how some characters are given more actual screen time than others. =\ I agree on the fact, that we lack critical thinking and are not given opportunities to punch, scream at people and be rude. "-F*** off, pathfinder -Ryder, i think, it would be unwise to start a confronta... - Just shut up, SAM. *reaches out for the asari sword* " No, that's different. There are characters I hate and characters, like George Martin said, I "love to hate". See my first post on Liam, it's on the bottom of the first page. I hate him because he's stupid AND he is extremely poor written. His dialogues are laughable of how bad they are, they look like they were written by a 12 year old. "That kett doesn't like me... maybe because I shot him on the face!" "Wow, it's crazy here, rocks are floating!" "I get a little pissed when people are trying to kill me!" Seriously, it's just pathetic. His loyalty mission was just the cherry on the top of the cake. I hate him like I hate Twilight. I didn't like Javik or Vivienne as a "person", but I felt empathy for them, they were well written and they had motivations and reasons on why they are what they are. Totally different from Liam. There are people like that, who try to fulfil the silence, who try their asses to unite with people, to buddy with them, even if they are bad at it, even if they have a bad taste of humor, even if they dont know how to do this.
And yes, there are characters, that you "love to hate", there are characters, that you dont like and ok with it, and there are also as well characters that you just cant stand near. They are all different kinds of people.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 1, 2017 7:07:27 GMT
I'm not talking so much on "personality", but more on their role on the story. Drack is there to say things like "my advice is kill everyone and survive". He's there to be the "badass krogan" like Wrex. That's his role. It's exactly like Wrex. Vetra is there to be like "I may do bad things sometimes, but it's for a greater good" SAM is there to be the "AI vision on organic life" And Peebee is there to be the "rebel who doesn't care about her own species" No, Liam is not "hypercompetent", surely. He is fucking dumb. He's an idiot I wouldn't trust to take care of a spoon, much less a huge operation like The Initiative. Okay... I'd guess you can describe a lot of ME2 squad as people with daddy issues.
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Post by haolyn on Aug 1, 2017 7:35:36 GMT
Well I liked my crew mates well enough (some more than others), and I loved plenty of other characters outside of the Tempest crew. Not everything has to revolve around squadmates. So MEA was a success for me in that regard.
I don't know about well written but personally that's not necessary for me to like a character. For example I love Game of Thrones (the show) but I don't find it or many of the characters well written at all. It's still a highly enjoyable show. Not everything has to be Citizen Kane.
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Post by daiyus on Aug 1, 2017 7:52:45 GMT
I have to say the more I play (and particularly taking my time with a second playthrough) the more I appreciate the characters and their quirks. I see a fair amount of development in the squadmates and even the supporting cast have solid personalities and agendas. What really stands out is the emotion in some of the banter though; just take Vetra and Drack talking about being guardians. In fact for me Drack is a particularly stand-out character; some of his scenes are seriously well written (without spoiling there's a scene in the med-bay which is brilliantly done).
I think most of the complaints levied at Andromeda are blown so far out of proportion. I'd never stand by and say the game is perfect because it isn't, but it's nowhere near the trainwreck the masses want to make it out to be; especially when it comes to characters.
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Post by Arcian on Aug 1, 2017 8:14:11 GMT
I disagree completely, but I would like to especially point out that Andromeda has THE worst character Bioware has ever written: Liam He is absolutely disgusting. He is that kind of guy who tries to be funny all the time, but he just isn't. He just has stupid jokes and terrible lines ALL THE TIME. Hated him since the first mission But my hate for him grew even more after his loyalty mission, because I couldn't believe he was so fucking stupid. He didn't like the angaran and the human were not IMMEDIATELY working together, despite the past of the angara with the kett and the fact that they barely know each other and his solution for that is TO GIVE VITAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE NEXUS (INCLUDING COMMUNICATION CODES) TO A RANDOM CONTACT. And then when this contact gets captured, he forces me to invade the pirate ship without any kind of plan and when the mission, by a miracle, succeeds, he acts like it was all a joke. Seriously, I don't normally kill or send away my companions in any Bioware games, I hated Anders but I kept him around during my final mission in DA2, but Liam... if I had the option to exile him or just shoot him in the face on that moment, I would have. It's not enough for him to be absurdely poorly written, he had to be the dumbest companion on a Bioware game ever. Ugh.
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Post by ioannisdenton on Aug 1, 2017 8:25:53 GMT
Sarcasm: But but but me1 garrus ,me1 tali, me1 liara, me1 wrex were the bestest.
Yes, andromeda characters were fine. As for Liam hatred, you dont actually have to like all of them. Hence there are 6 characters.
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Post by isaidlunch on Aug 1, 2017 8:30:27 GMT
I disagree completely, but I would like to especially point out that Andromeda has THE worst character Bioware has ever written: Liam He is absolutely disgusting. He is that kind of guy who tries to be funny all the time, but he just isn't. He just has stupid jokes and terrible lines ALL THE TIME. Hated him since the first mission But my hate for him grew even more after his loyalty mission, because I couldn't believe he was so fucking stupid. He didn't like the angaran and the human were not IMMEDIATELY working together, despite the past of the angara with the kett and the fact that they barely know each other and his solution for that is TO GIVE VITAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE NEXUS (INCLUDING COMMUNICATION CODES) TO A RANDOM CONTACT. And then when this contact gets captured, he forces me to invade the pirate ship without any kind of plan and when the mission, by a miracle, succeeds, he acts like it was all a joke. Seriously, I don't normally kill or send away my companions in any Bioware games, I hated Anders but I kept him around during my final mission in DA2, but Liam... if I had the option to exile him or just shoot him in the face on that moment, I would have. It's not enough for him to be absurdely poorly written, he had to be the dumbest companion on a Bioware game ever. Ugh. I'm still not over the time he called my Ryder a jerk. Throw him out the airlock!
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Post by ioannisdenton on Aug 1, 2017 8:35:47 GMT
And sincerely, many of the characters are copies from previous games. Drack is an absolute copy+paste from Wrex, even the voice is very similar. Vetra is a worsened Garrus SAM is a very worsened EDI Peebee is like Sera, but much, much better, I feel she's the only character in the game that actually has a personality lol no Vetra is way way better crafted than Me1 garrus. i dont suppoise you compare a 7year developed garrus to a New character, do you? Peebee is NOT like sera. no. i did. They are nothing alike. Sera does what she does to hurt big people and help small people. she is quirky. Peebee has nothing in common with Sera except they share nothing with their respective racesDrack is a great character that seriously i think is better than wrex and grunt. He shines the further you get into the game.
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Post by abaris on Aug 1, 2017 9:25:21 GMT
I found the ME: A just as nuanced as DA: I with more to come. That's a bold statement. Especially when it comes to characters. For me, just replaying DAI, the characters play in very different leagues with MEA being the junior one.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 1, 2017 10:16:59 GMT
Sarcasm: But but but me1 garrus ,me1 tali, me1 liara, me1 wrex were the bestest. Yes, andromeda characters were fine. As for Liam hatred, you dont actually have to like all of them. Hence there are 6 characters. actually the curious thing about Andromedas cast is its the first game where i consider pretty much well written?...in the Main game anyways. If i were to use my rating scale all the characters are tier 3 and above. Like there is no Character as bad as Isabella or Jack. The trouble is there also aren't any amazing characters in the game either. No Cassandra Pentaghast or James Vega (who is a much better take on a Liam character)
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Post by themikefest on Aug 1, 2017 10:48:16 GMT
He was also part of a group which required him to react quickly. I think it was called HUSTL. Is that suppose to make it alright for him to give information to an unknown individual?
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Post by Sondergaard on Aug 1, 2017 10:51:07 GMT
The trouble is there also aren't any amazing characters in the game either. No Cassandra Pentaghast or James Vega (who is a much better take on a Liam character) I'll agree with you there. I wasn't a fan of Vega (too much macho bullshit, not enough character development) but I never doubted his ability to get a job done. Liam is a disgrace and, as written, wouldn't be allowed to direct traffic never mind being on a crisis response team. But he's the 'anti-Jacob' so it's all good.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 1, 2017 11:08:16 GMT
How Jem'hadar of you. Seriously watched an episode of Deep Space Nine where the Dominion and Captain Sisko have to work together to defeat a common enemy, anyways one of the Jem'hadar kills one of his own men for violating an order and Sisko gives one hell of a speech on wy that ain't cool. I have no idea what any of that means An asset that can't be trusted anymore. You're right. He can learn from his mistake. It just won't be as a squadmate on the tempest. I said I would kill the dirtbag, but my Ryder would turn him over to Nexus security and let them deal with Kosta. Why would I hope to be like one of them? Why would I want someone on my squad who doesn't have any training? Young or not, he messed up big time. Being a cop, regardless of time on the force, he should know better.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Aug 1, 2017 13:02:04 GMT
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 1, 2017 13:04:27 GMT
Read thread title, knew only one person on this forum has simultaneously the arrogance and the obliviousness to make this post.
No.
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Post by Astralify on Aug 1, 2017 13:05:47 GMT
Mass Effect Andromeda is the pinnacle of Bioware Games. It's their best game ever, and also the greatest RPG of all time. ( ͡͡ ° ͜ ʖ ͡ °)
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 1, 2017 13:45:31 GMT
No, that's different. There are characters I hate and characters, like George Martin said, I "love to hate". See my first post on Liam, it's on the bottom of the first page. I hate him because he's stupid AND he is extremely poor written. His dialogues are laughable of how bad they are, they look like they were written by a 12 year old. "That kett doesn't like me... maybe because I shot him on the face!" "Wow, it's crazy here, rocks are floating!" "I get a little pissed when people are trying to kill me!" Seriously, it's just pathetic. His loyalty mission was just the cherry on the top of the cake. I hate him like I hate Twilight. I didn't like Javik or Vivienne as a "person", but I felt empathy for them, they were well written and they had motivations and reasons on why they are what they are. Totally different from Liam. There are people like that, who try to fulfil the silence, who try their asses to unite with people, to buddy with them, even if they are bad at it, even if they have a bad taste of humor, even if they dont know how to do this.
And yes, there are characters, that you "love to hate", there are characters, that you dont like and ok with it, and there are also as well characters that you just cant stand near. They are all different kinds of people. Nice try to justify his terrible dialogues and bad written jokes. Now always when a character has terrible dialogue, just say "Hey, there are people like that", LOL.
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 1, 2017 13:46:46 GMT
And sincerely, many of the characters are copies from previous games. Drack is an absolute copy+paste from Wrex, even the voice is very similar. Vetra is a worsened Garrus SAM is a very worsened EDI Peebee is like Sera, but much, much better, I feel she's the only character in the game that actually has a personality lol no Vetra is way way better crafted than Me1 garrus. i dont suppoise you compare a 7year developed garrus to a New character, do you? Peebee is NOT like sera. no. i did. They are nothing alike. Sera does what she does to hurt big people and help small people. she is quirky. Peebee has nothing in common with Sera except they share nothing with their respective racesDrack is a great character that seriously i think is better than wrex and grunt. He shines the further you get into the game. Look further on my other post. I didn't mean their personalities, but their role in the story and the way they do it.
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Post by vonuber on Aug 1, 2017 13:56:24 GMT
Read thread title, knew only one person on this forum has simultaneously the arrogance and the obliviousness to make this post. No. Very true, nothing can compare to Miranda moaning about her sister whilst her arse occupies 2/3rds of the screen. That's top quality right there.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 1, 2017 14:41:08 GMT
Read thread title, knew only one person on this forum has simultaneously the arrogance and the obliviousness to make this post. No. Very true, nothing can compare to Miranda moaning about her sister whilst her arse occupies 2/3rds of the screen. That's top quality right there. Nothing like a change of venue, or moved goalposts, to make an argument. In what way was his post, or mine, reflective of ME3? Bro, do you even Lift?
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Post by ioannisdenton on Aug 1, 2017 15:00:00 GMT
Sarcasm: But but but me1 garrus ,me1 tali, me1 liara, me1 wrex were the bestest. Yes, andromeda characters were fine. As for Liam hatred, you dont actually have to like all of them. Hence there are 6 characters. actually the curious thing about Andromedas cast is its the first game where i consider pretty much well written?...in the Main game anyways. If i were to use my rating scale all the characters are tier 3 and above. Like there is no Character as bad as Isabella or Jack. The trouble is there also aren't any amazing characters in the game either. No Cassandra Pentaghast or James Vega (who is a much better take on a Liam character) haha i really really liked isabella and Jack!! my fav characters from their respective games. LOL anyway this is why the cast is diverse. each one has his own favorites. we are all different after all We are all human after all.
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Post by setokaiba on Aug 1, 2017 15:02:00 GMT
Read thread title, knew only one person on this forum has simultaneously the arrogance and the obliviousness to make this post. No. Very true, nothing can compare to Miranda moaning about her sister whilst her arse occupies 2/3rds of the screen. That's top quality right there. You got fan service and a story about a big sister trying to save her little sister from their evil father. What's not to love? Joking aside I love Miranda as a character and her LM but that booty taking up half the screen ever 30 seconds got annoying. Like I get it Bioware she has a great ass.
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Post by ioannisdenton on Aug 1, 2017 15:09:17 GMT
lol no Vetra is way way better crafted than Me1 garrus. i dont suppoise you compare a 7year developed garrus to a New character, do you? Peebee is NOT like sera. no. i did. They are nothing alike. Sera does what she does to hurt big people and help small people. she is quirky. Peebee has nothing in common with Sera except they share nothing with their respective racesDrack is a great character that seriously i think is better than wrex and grunt. He shines the further you get into the game. Look further on my other post. I didn't mean their personalities, but their role in the story and the way they do it. Hmm, Cora and Lim are part of ark hyperion so they make sense. The others are tag along just like any bioware story
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Post by warrior on Aug 1, 2017 15:13:57 GMT
Relevant:
cracking up by myself in public this is perfect
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