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Post by colfoley on Jul 31, 2017 21:09:08 GMT
Mass Effect Andromeda is a curious case when it comes to me and its characters. During my first PT I wasn't really sure about them, especially the secondary crew. It seemed for all the effort that BioWare put in to the secondary crew in ME 3 and Inquisition, the Tempest's crew got lost in the background. For my second PT got to know them better and felt this was largely untrue, and by the third PT I grew to know Peebee and Liam, and while I do not like them as people per se, I knew them to be good characters. With flaws and foibles. This settled down Andromeda's cast as my third favorite in a BioWare game. As far as characters are concerned, as some may know, I am big into arcs in general. Arcs are, generally speaking, states of change, consistantly going from one state to another different state. And, for characters, there are generally three types of arcs they can go through: A change arc (either positive or negative) an arc of knowledge (the character usually finds out more about themselves, thus the audience, and thus we can grow to have sympathy about them), or an arc of increasing responsibility (see Wrex from the MET). And I generally am not talking about Andromeda's villains, I consider that a seperate issue, one which I have already addressed. Now Andromeda's characters all go through change arcs, they all grow as people throughout the course of the narrative. Characters for an arc and just their general place in the story have Goals, motivations, flaws. This gives a character something to work for, the reasons they want to work towards that something, and flaws which prevent them from getting there. Now, one of these flaws can be a Big Lie (as outlined by this book here, amongst other sources), or something they believe about themselves, or that they need, that is preventing them from reaching their true potential in any given arc. Lets go through them: Drack: Believes he is useless for a new Krogan society, he does not have anything to contribute. Jaal: Believes he must have a promotion within the resistance to find fullfillment and belonging. Cora: Believes that she has to rely on others for her own purpose. Vetra: Believes her sister is not old enough, or capable enough to understand her works, she wants to protect her from growing up to fast like she did. Peebee: Believes that it is easier to keep people at a distance then let them in close because of a betryal of a close friend. Liam: Believes that since none of their objectives in the Andromeda Galaxy has worked out, he has to force everything to happen. Even some of the secondary cast has a similar arc. Gil & Kallo: both believe that theirs is the only way in dealing with problems from the Tempest. And I'm not exactly sure of the lie of either Lexi or Suvi, not sure Suvi even has one, but I suspect Lexi does so...help? And the rest of the cast does not really need one. SAM is an AI so would not be prone to self delusion (though he does undergo a knowledge arc), as for the rest? They are too insignificant, too old, too experienced, and too set in their ways to really go under a change. Tann will always be Tann. So what are your thoughts? Something i missed? Plain disagree? Any thoughts on similar OT character arcs? (I may actually play the OT again with this in mind to see if any of the OT characters enjoy their own 'Big Lie' arcs)
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Post by vonuber on Jul 31, 2017 21:31:43 GMT
Femryder is a better character than Femshep.
Maybe not a better player insert for masturbatory power fantasies, but a better character.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 31, 2017 21:42:19 GMT
Femryder is a better character than Femshep. Maybe not a better player insert for masturbatory power fantasies, but a better character. i actually forgot to talk about the Ryders in the OP. But i will.
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LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 909 Likes: 1,847
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
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Post by LogicGunn on Jul 31, 2017 21:52:24 GMT
I think they were well written too. I think part of the initial negativity was because we've spent 3 games over ten years getting to know the characters of the Trilogy and people are comparing them to those characters we've gotten to know so well, but compared to the first game the MEA characters have more depth and personality. In a couple more games I know I will feel just as attached to them as I do Liara, Tali, Wrex and co. But not Kaiden. Never him.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 31, 2017 21:58:18 GMT
I think they were well written too. I think part of the initial negativity was because we've spent 3 games over ten years getting to know the characters of the Trilogy and people are comparing them to those characters we've gotten to know so well, but compared to the first game the MEA characters have more depth and personality. In a couple more games I know I will feel just as attached to them as I do Liara, Tali, Wrex and co. But not Kaiden. Never him. more so then with Liara.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 31, 2017 21:59:01 GMT
I actually think the character writing is one of ME:A's weaker aspects. They don't feel like real people to me as they are all very focused on one single aspect of themselves, that the writer seemed to try and beat down on in almost every single conversation you have with them. Comparing them to other BW characters they lack dimentionality in my opinion, they are too focused. Real people have more than one personality trait and while it is important to highlight a character's primary motivations and goals in order to make them memorable ME:A is overdoing it on that front to the point where most squad mates annoy me. In addition, most of their major personality traits are not very complex but can be boiled down to very simple premises and even worse, these characters self analyze a lot. It's not something people do a lot in the real world usually but these guys tend to explain to Ryder why they are the way they are, rather then letting Ryder (or the player) figuring it out by themselves. Jaal is a good example for this when he tells you (in one of his first conversations when he doesn't even know the other races at all yet) how they are very openly emotional and vocal because they live in these large families, etc., etc. But he's not the only one. Most of these character seem to follow a tell, don't show approach and that IMO takes a lot of fun out of getting to know them. If you spill almost everything there is in your first conversation and repeat it over and over alter, the routine gets old quick. For me, it actually got to the point where doing my rounds of the Tempest got more of a chore (and this is coming from someone who loved going around the Normandy).
So sorry OP, can't agree with you there. Yes, they each have their arcs, but I don't consider that enough for actual good character writing.
As for Ryder, I agree, s/he is better constructed as a character within a story. Not sure if s/he is the better player avatar though. I definitely felt I had more input into the character of Shepard then Ryder. There is a trade-off there and it's very much a matter of taste where you want the player character to fall on that spectrum.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 31, 2017 22:03:02 GMT
I felt that they're off to a more interesting start than ME 1's companions. Can't wait to see where they go next!
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
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Prime Posts: 1,732
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 31, 2017 22:07:49 GMT
Tann starts out very much in the same mold as Udina a self-serving politician who only wants more power but as you progress you see that while he's a still self-serving politician he also is doing his best and unlike Udina when you disobey his direct order he doesn't ground you or yell, he does something that you didn't expect he did: he admits that Ryder was correct and he was wrong (it's also doubtful he could have done anything any way). I don't agree with Tann all the time but when you talk to him and listen to his dialogue with others I can respect him and the position he's in.
Lexi's flaw is that she feels she's unable to find a balance between her personal life and her work as a doctor. She also feels that she comes off as cold and detached when she actually cares a great deal for the crew of the Tempest.
Suvi's flaw is science vs. religion and how to find a balance between the two, this flaw is actually something she seems to have to already dealt with before coming to Andromeda and really only becomes a bit of problem when you play as an atheist FemRyder romancing her, and even when you play as an atheist Ryder not romancing her she seems to regard the whole thing as a friendly debate and/or just a "lets agree to disagree" kind of deal (especially if you romance her).
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Post by Guts on Jul 31, 2017 22:14:30 GMT
I liked Peebs a fuckton more than I liked Liara. I felt Liara's character development was full of inconsistencies and favoritism on Biowares end. I mean shy innocent archaeologist with bad people skills->"Very good" info broker on illium who can play people like a fiddle->fucking shadow broker. Seriously WTF. I mean yeah, don't keep her innocent forever, but the way it was handled felt more like a bad power fantasy than anything. Peebee on the other hand I felt was much more relatable, she starts off seeing the tempest crew as a means to an end so she can explore the galaxy's mysteries to finally realizing that the tempest crew is like a family to her, it gets better with her romance because she initially just wanted sex with no strings attached but she eventually decides she wants a permanent thing with Ryder, a little bit like Jack. I mean, her loyalty mission could've been better in some places, but on the whole, I really enjoyed her character arc.
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Post by MarilynRobert on Jul 31, 2017 22:16:46 GMT
Even some of the secondary cast has a similar arc. Gil & Kallo: both believe that theirs is the only way in dealing with problems from the Tempest. And I'm not exactly sure of the lie of either Lexi or Suvi, not sure Suvi even has one, but I suspect Lexi does so...help? And the rest of the cast does not really need one. SAM is an AI so would not be prone to self delusion (though he does undergo a knowledge arc), as for the rest? They are too insignificant, too old, too experienced, and too set in their ways to really go under a change. Tann will always be Tann. So what are your thoughts? Something i missed? Plain disagree? Any thoughts on similar OT character arcs? (I may actually play the OT again with this in mind to see if any of the OT characters enjoy their own 'Big Lie' arcs) Due to Lexi's analytical nature (and Peebee saying so), Lexi was afraid the crew thought she didn't really care about them as people. Gave her a good talking to at the Vortex and fixed that problem right up.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 31, 2017 22:17:32 GMT
I actually think the character writing is one of ME:A's weaker aspects. They don't feel like real people to me as they are all very focused on one single aspect of themselves, that the writer seemed to try and beat down on in almost every single conversation you have with them. Comparing them to other BW characters they lack dimentionality in my opinion, they are too focused. Real people have more than one personality trait and while it is important to highlight a character's primary motivations and goals in order to make them memorable ME:A is overdoing it on that front to the point where most squad mates annoy me. In addition, most of their major personality traits are not very complex but can be boiled down to very simple premises and even worse, these characters self analyze a lot. It's not something people do a lot in the real world usually but these guys tend to explain to Ryder why they are the way they are, rather then letting Ryder (or the player) figuring it out by themselves. Jaal is a good example for this when he tells you (in one of his first conversations when he doesn't even know the other races at all yet) how they are very openly emotional and vocal because they live in these large families, etc., etc. But he's not the only one. Most of these character seem to follow a tell, don't show approach and that IMO takes a lot of fun out of getting to know them. If you spill almost everything there is in your first conversation and repeat it over and over alter, the routine gets old quick. For me, it actually got to the point where doing my rounds of the Tempest got more of a chore (and this is coming from someone who loved going around the Normandy). So sorry OP, can't agree with you there. Yes, they each have their arcs, but I don't consider that enough for actual good character writing. As for Ryder, I agree, s/he is better constructed as a character within a story. Not sure if s/he is the better player avatar though. I definitely felt I had more input into the character of Shepard then Ryder. There is a trade-off there and it's very much a matter of taste where you want the player character to fall on that spectrum. Anderson really wanted you to know he was born in London. Samara really wanted you to know she had an Ardat Yakshi to kill. Garus had this guy named sidonis he wanted to kill. As far as it goes I'd b argue the opposite. We got to know the characters in Andromeda through show don't tell, while the trilogy told and didn't show us. We got to know the Andromeda characters through their actions and out in the field and by doing things With them. We got to know the Characters in the OT by asking them questions...like an awkward first date and then be lectured about their background or people. Sure we got to know them REALLY W well this way. But it wasn't exactly subtle. And i agree video game Character writing is not that advanced yet...only one game has the cast feel like real people.
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Post by Guts on Jul 31, 2017 22:19:22 GMT
I actually think the character writing is one of ME:A's weaker aspects. They don't feel like real people to me as they are all very focused on one single aspect of themselves, that the writer seemed to try and beat down on in almost every single conversation you have with them. Comparing them to other BW characters they lack dimentionality in my opinion, they are too focused. Real people have more than one personality trait and while it is important to highlight a character's primary motivations and goals in order to make them memorable ME:A is overdoing it on that front to the point where most squad mates annoy me. In addition, most of their major personality traits are not very complex but can be boiled down to very simple premises and even worse, these characters self analyze a lot. It's not something people do a lot in the real world usually but these guys tend to explain to Ryder why they are the way they are, rather then letting Ryder (or the player) figuring it out by themselves. Jaal is a good example for this when he tells you (in one of his first conversations when he doesn't even know the other races at all yet) how they are very openly emotional and vocal because they live in these large families, etc., etc. But he's not the only one. Most of these character seem to follow a tell, don't show approach and that IMO takes a lot of fun out of getting to know them. If you spill almost everything there is in your first conversation and repeat it over and over alter, the routine gets old quick. For me, it actually got to the point where doing my rounds of the Tempest got more of a chore (and this is coming from someone who loved going around the Normandy). So sorry OP, can't agree with you there. Yes, they each have their arcs, but I don't consider that enough for actual good character writing. As for Ryder, I agree, s/he is better constructed as a character within a story. Not sure if s/he is the better player avatar though. I definitely felt I had more input into the character of Shepard then Ryder. There is a trade-off there and it's very much a matter of taste where you want the player character to fall on that spectrum.I felt there was some character development there with Ryder, but I personally felt that SAM kinda downplayed everything, agreed on having more input on Shepard's character, though I felt this got downplayed a bit in the later installments for the original trilogy. As for the rest of what you said, I personally disagree, but we all have our opinions.
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,940 Likes: 3,176
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 31, 2017 22:38:09 GMT
I actually think the character writing is one of ME:A's weaker aspects. They don't feel like real people to me as they are all very focused on one single aspect of themselves, that the writer seemed to try and beat down on in almost every single conversation you have with them. Comparing them to other BW characters they lack dimentionality in my opinion, they are too focused. Real people have more than one personality trait and while it is important to highlight a character's primary motivations and goals in order to make them memorable ME:A is overdoing it on that front to the point where most squad mates annoy me. In addition, most of their major personality traits are not very complex but can be boiled down to very simple premises and even worse, these characters self analyze a lot. It's not something people do a lot in the real world usually but these guys tend to explain to Ryder why they are the way they are, rather then letting Ryder (or the player) figuring it out by themselves. Jaal is a good example for this when he tells you (in one of his first conversations when he doesn't even know the other races at all yet) how they are very openly emotional and vocal because they live in these large families, etc., etc. But he's not the only one. Most of these character seem to follow a tell, don't show approach and that IMO takes a lot of fun out of getting to know them. If you spill almost everything there is in your first conversation and repeat it over and over alter, the routine gets old quick. For me, it actually got to the point where doing my rounds of the Tempest got more of a chore (and this is coming from someone who loved going around the Normandy). So sorry OP, can't agree with you there. Yes, they each have their arcs, but I don't consider that enough for actual good character writing. As for Ryder, I agree, s/he is better constructed as a character within a story. Not sure if s/he is the better player avatar though. I definitely felt I had more input into the character of Shepard then Ryder. There is a trade-off there and it's very much a matter of taste where you want the player character to fall on that spectrum.I felt there was some character development there with Ryder, but I personally felt that SAM kinda downplayed everything, agreed on having more input on Shepard's character, though I felt this got downplayed a bit in the later installments for the original trilogy. As for the rest of what you said, I personally disagree, but we all have our opinions. SAM does the same role as EDI did. In ME2 and ME3 EDI does a lot of the same things that SAM does: exposition dumps, protects Shepard, translator, genetic detective, an AI-rights activist, a philosopher, a wanna be comedian, helps fly the ship, and etc. The only real difference is that SAM was implanted in the Ryder twins' heads and EDI was the spaceship and later on EDI got a super sexy female robot body, other than that they're have two different VAs there is NOT a lot of difference between them. They both move the plot along and keep Shepard and Ryder from getting derailed by keeping them out of trouble.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 31, 2017 22:41:10 GMT
I actually think the character writing is one of ME:A's weaker aspects. They don't feel like real people to me as they are all very focused on one single aspect of themselves, that the writer seemed to try and beat down on in almost every single conversation you have with them. Comparing them to other BW characters they lack dimentionality in my opinion, they are too focused. Real people have more than one personality trait and while it is important to highlight a character's primary motivations and goals in order to make them memorable ME:A is overdoing it on that front to the point where most squad mates annoy me. In addition, most of their major personality traits are not very complex but can be boiled down to very simple premises and even worse, these characters self analyze a lot. It's not something people do a lot in the real world usually but these guys tend to explain to Ryder why they are the way they are, rather then letting Ryder (or the player) figuring it out by themselves. Jaal is a good example for this when he tells you (in one of his first conversations when he doesn't even know the other races at all yet) how they are very openly emotional and vocal because they live in these large families, etc., etc. But he's not the only one. Most of these character seem to follow a tell, don't show approach and that IMO takes a lot of fun out of getting to know them. If you spill almost everything there is in your first conversation and repeat it over and over alter, the routine gets old quick. For me, it actually got to the point where doing my rounds of the Tempest got more of a chore (and this is coming from someone who loved going around the Normandy). So sorry OP, can't agree with you there. Yes, they each have their arcs, but I don't consider that enough for actual good character writing. As for Ryder, I agree, s/he is better constructed as a character within a story. Not sure if s/he is the better player avatar though. I definitely felt I had more input into the character of Shepard then Ryder. There is a trade-off there and it's very much a matter of taste where you want the player character to fall on that spectrum.I felt there was some character development there with Ryder, but I personally felt that SAM kinda downplayed everything, agreed on having more input on Shepard's character, though I felt this got downplayed a bit in the later installments for the original trilogy. As for the rest of what you said, I personally disagree, but we all have our opinions. which is really unfair.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 780
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Post by Guts on Jul 31, 2017 22:46:13 GMT
I felt there was some character development there with Ryder, but I personally felt that SAM kinda downplayed everything, agreed on having more input on Shepard's character, though I felt this got downplayed a bit in the later installments for the original trilogy. As for the rest of what you said, I personally disagree, but we all have our opinions. which is really unfair. What was unfair?
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 13,331 Likes: 30,906
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 31, 2017 22:50:41 GMT
Mass Effect Andromeda is a curious case when it comes to me and its characters. During my first PT I wasn't really sure about them, especially the secondary crew. It seemed for all the effort that BioWare put in to the secondary crew in ME 3 and Inquisition, the Tempest's crew got lost in the background. For my second PT got to know them better and felt this was largely untrue, and by the third PT I grew to know Peebee and Liam, and while I do not like them as people per se, I knew them to be good characters. With flaws and foibles. This settled down Andromeda's cast as my third favorite in a BioWare game. As far as characters are concerned, as some may know, I am big into arcs in general. Arcs are, generally speaking, states of change, consistantly going from one state to another different state. And, for characters, there are generally three types of arcs they can go through: A change arc (either positive or negative) an arc of knowledge (the character usually finds out more about themselves, thus the audience, and thus we can grow to have sympathy about them), or an arc of increasing responsibility (see Wrex from the MET). And I generally am not talking about Andromeda's villains, I consider that a seperate issue, one which I have already addressed. Now Andromeda's characters all go through change arcs, they all grow as people throughout the course of the narrative. Characters for an arc and just their general place in the story have Goals, motivations, flaws. This gives a character something to work for, the reasons they want to work towards that something, and flaws which prevent them from getting there. Now, one of these flaws can be a Big Lie (as outlined by this book here, amongst other sources), or something they believe about themselves, or that they need, that is preventing them from reaching their true potential in any given arc. Lets go through them: Drack: Believes he is useless for a new Krogan society, he does not have anything to contribute. Jaal: Believes he must have a promotion within the resistance to find fullfillment and belonging. Cora: Believes that she has to rely on others for her own purpose. Vetra: Believes her sister is not old enough, or capable enough to understand her works, she wants to protect her from growing up to fast like she did. Peebee: Believes that it is easier to keep people at a distance then let them in close because of a betryal of a close friend. Liam: Believes that since none of their objectives in the Andromeda Galaxy has worked out, he has to force everything to happen. Even some of the secondary cast has a similar arc. Gil & Kallo: both believe that theirs is the only way in dealing with problems from the Tempest. And I'm not exactly sure of the lie of either Lexi or Suvi, not sure Suvi even has one, but I suspect Lexi does so...help? And the rest of the cast does not really need one. SAM is an AI so would not be prone to self delusion (though he does undergo a knowledge arc), as for the rest? They are too insignificant, too old, too experienced, and too set in their ways to really go under a change. Tann will always be Tann. So what are your thoughts? Something i missed? Plain disagree? Any thoughts on similar OT character arcs? (I may actually play the OT again with this in mind to see if any of the OT characters enjoy their own 'Big Lie' arcs) I can safely say I'm more attached to these characters than I was to, say, Ash, Wrex, Tali, Garrus and Liara after ME1. Those trinity squaddies were at first, slightly boring exposition stands. The closest thing to interesting was Ash, but she got a bit awkward with the poems. I didn't expect much from the game, so it wasn't a big deal. I thought it amusing, for instance, when I was ninja-manced by Liara and Ash. What probably would have helped would have been squad banter while out and about... like there was in BG2 and in DAO.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 31, 2017 22:53:35 GMT
that many view sam as burrying Ryder.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 31, 2017 22:55:35 GMT
that many view sam as burrying Ryder. If anything, SAM buried the non-squad crew. I like SAM as a character and a concept, but he did too much in my opinion. I would have preferred it if we consulted the crew a lot more. For example anything involving technology we look to Gil, anything involving biology we look to Lexi, and anything involving other science we look to Suvi.
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Hanako Ikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 31, 2017 22:57:49 GMT
Even some of the secondary cast has a similar arc. Gil & Kallo: both believe that theirs is the only way in dealing with problems from the Tempest. And I'm not exactly sure of the lie of either Lexi or Suvi, not sure Suvi even has one, but I suspect Lexi does so...help? And the rest of the cast does not really need one. SAM is an AI so would not be prone to self delusion (though he does undergo a knowledge arc), as for the rest? They are too insignificant, too old, too experienced, and too set in their ways to really go under a change. Tann will always be Tann. So what are your thoughts? Something i missed? Plain disagree? Any thoughts on similar OT character arcs? (I may actually play the OT again with this in mind to see if any of the OT characters enjoy their own 'Big Lie' arcs) Due to Lexi's analytical nature (and Peebee saying so), Lexi was afraid the crew thought she didn't really care about them as people. Gave her a good talking to at the Vortex and fixed that problem right up. I really wish we could have confronted PeeBee about her saying all those things to Lexi. Unlike the Gil v Kallo thing, that doesn't really get any resolution.
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Guts
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 780
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gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Guts on Jul 31, 2017 22:58:52 GMT
that many view sam as burrying Ryder. If anything, SAM buried the non-squad crew. I like SAM as a character and a concept, but he did too much in my opinion. I would have preferred it if we consulted the crew a lot more. For example anything involving technology we look to Gil, anything involving biology we look to Lexi, and anything involving other science we look to Suvi. This is the problem that I had with SAM in general. And everything else you said would've been awesome, we could even talk to Peebee to find out how remnant work would be another example.
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Guts
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 780
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gatsu66
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Post by Guts on Jul 31, 2017 23:00:07 GMT
that many view sam as burrying Ryder. Maybe not so much "burying" Ryder as it's more of SAM just being too important in general. At least that's the problem that I had.
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ArabianIGoggles
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: d8lock
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on Jul 31, 2017 23:57:33 GMT
I don't see it. I think that writing is MEA's biggest flaw.
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Hope for the best, plan for the worst
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 1, 2017 1:53:54 GMT
Tann starts out very much in the same mold as Udina a self-serving politician who only wants more power but as you progress you see that while he's a still self-serving politician he also is doing his best and unlike Udina when you disobey his direct order he doesn't ground you or yell, he does something that you didn't expect he did: he admits that Ryder was correct and he was wrong (it's also doubtful he could have done anything any way). I don't agree with Tann all the time but when you talk to him and listen to his dialogue with others I can respect him and the position he's in. Lexi's flaw is that she feels she's unable to find a balance between her personal life and her work as a doctor. She also feels that she comes off as cold and detached when she actually cares a great deal for the crew of the Tempest. Suvi's flaw is science vs. religion and how to find a balance between the two, this flaw is actually something she seems to have to already dealt with before coming to Andromeda and really only becomes a bit of problem when you play as an atheist FemRyder romancing her, and even when you play as an atheist Ryder not romancing her she seems to regard the whole thing as a friendly debate and/or just a "lets agree to disagree" kind of deal (especially if you romance her). Except I never wanted to do this to Tann. Udina on the other hand...
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Cyonan
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Jul 31, 2016 20:55:30 GMT
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Cyonan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 1, 2017 2:37:08 GMT
To be honest, the character's never really gripped me to make me interested in them enough to actually find out their entire arcs.
The fact that they have character arcs is nice, but that alone doesn't immediately make a character well written.
With all the patches the game has had maybe I'll give it another go and see if they take a second time around.
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anarchy65
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 1, 2017 2:37:30 GMT
I disagree completely, but I would like to especially point out that Andromeda has THE worst character Bioware has ever written: Liam
He is absolutely disgusting. He is that kind of guy who tries to be funny all the time, but he just isn't. He just has stupid jokes and terrible lines ALL THE TIME. Hated him since the first mission
But my hate for him grew even more after his loyalty mission, because I couldn't believe he was so fucking stupid. He didn't like the angaran and the human were not IMMEDIATELY working together, despite the past of the angara with the kett and the fact that they barely know each other and his solution for that is TO GIVE VITAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE NEXUS (INCLUDING COMMUNICATION CODES) TO A RANDOM CONTACT. And then when this contact gets captured, he forces me to invade the pirate ship without any kind of plan and when the mission, by a miracle, succeeds, he acts like it was all a joke. Seriously, I don't normally kill or send away my companions in any Bioware games, I hated Anders but I kept him around during my final mission in DA2, but Liam... if I had the option to exile him or just shoot him in the face on that moment, I would have. It's not enough for him to be absurdely poorly written, he had to be the dumbest companion on a Bioware game ever. Ugh.
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