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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 23, 2017 23:47:04 GMT
One of the things I miss about Origins that both II and Inquisition did away with is the stat-based gear. So a rogue could wield a sword and wear medium armor if they used a strength-based build, or a warrior could use archery (or the Arcane warrior going at it without a staff). I too really liked this way to do equipment
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 24, 2017 3:42:01 GMT
One of the things I miss about Origins that both II and Inquisition did away with is the stat-based gear. So a rogue could wield a sword and wear medium armor if they used a strength-based build, or a warrior could use archery (or the Arcane warrior going at it without a staff). I too really liked this way to do equipment Devil's advocate: if stats and skills (abilities, whatnot) come from the same pool of points, using stats to override class restrictions creates a trade-off that, imo, is questionable. It would depend on the relative strength of gear vs. abilities. If abilities are way stronger than gear, it's a losing proposition to spend points on stats for the sake of gear, at least with respect to combat effectiveness. If gear is way stronger than abilities, spending points on stats is optimal for combat effectiveness, but brings into question the value of pure class based abilities in the first place. What's the point of even playing a pure mage if the fighter/magic user/thief build is always optimal for combat? Now if the stats points and skills points are separate pools, like in Bethesda games, I like it a lot better. Then the trade-offs remain within the same regime: stat vs. stat or skill vs. skill, instead of stat(gear) vs. skill.
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Post by Quickpaw on Aug 24, 2017 4:46:55 GMT
Devil's advocate: if stats and skills (abilities, whatnot) come from the same pool of points, using stats to override class restrictions creates a trade-off that, imo, is questionable. It would depend on the relative strength of gear vs. abilities. If abilities are way stronger than gear, it's a losing proposition to spend points on stats for the sake of gear, at least with respect to combat effectiveness. If gear is way stronger than abilities, spending points on stats is optimal for combat effectiveness, but brings into question the value of pure class based abilities in the first place. What's the point of even playing a pure mage if the fighter/magic user/thief build is always optimal for combat? Now if the stats points and skills points are separate pools, like in Bethesda games, I like it a lot better. Then the trade-offs remain within the same regime: stat vs. stat or skill vs. skill, instead of stat(gear) vs. skill. I believe the gear requirements were in investing stat points in Strength, Dexterity, etc. whereas the skills that actually used the weapons did come from talent trees, so yeah. It also brings up one of my SWToR posts about non-optimal builds in singleplayer vs multiplayer. www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7719281#post7719281
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Post by Hrungr on Aug 24, 2017 16:36:08 GMT
I too really liked this way to do equipment Devil's advocate: if stats and skills (abilities, whatnot) come from the same pool of points, using stats to override class restrictions creates a trade-off that, imo, is questionable. It would depend on the relative strength of gear vs. abilities. If abilities are way stronger than gear, it's a losing proposition to spend points on stats for the sake of gear, at least with respect to combat effectiveness. If gear is way stronger than abilities, spending points on stats is optimal for combat effectiveness, but brings into question the value of pure class based abilities in the first place. What's the point of even playing a pure mage if the fighter/magic user/thief build is always optimal for combat? Now if the stats points and skills points are separate pools, like in Bethesda games, I like it a lot better. Then the trade-offs remain within the same regime: stat vs. stat or skill vs. skill, instead of stat(gear) vs. skill. I agree that game balancing is likely easier if they are separate pools. Though whenever stat-based gear is brought up, I'm reminded of this...
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Aug 24, 2017 19:46:10 GMT
One of the things I miss about Origins that both II and Inquisition did away with is the stat-based gear. So a rogue could wield a sword and wear medium armor if they used a strength-based build, or a warrior could use archery (or the Arcane warrior going at it without a staff). I too really liked this way to do equipment So did I. My favourite Warden to play was a cowardly Rogue who used a SHIELD and refused to learn offensive abilities.
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Post by cribbian on Aug 28, 2017 12:58:12 GMT
One of the things I miss about Origins that both II and Inquisition did away with is the stat-based gear. So a rogue could wield a sword and wear medium armor if they used a strength-based build, or a warrior could use archery (or the Arcane warrior going at it without a staff). I too really liked this way to do equipment I hope you're in charge of such things then
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 28, 2017 14:22:29 GMT
So a combination of the tactical menu in Inquisition with the diverse skill trees of Dragon Age II are what I want.
Ultimately, Inquisition had too many same-y abilities, and I hated what they did to mage spells. Go back to the original schools and more.
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Post by LukeBarrett on Aug 28, 2017 16:34:19 GMT
Ultimately, Inquisition had too many same-y abilities, and I hated what they did to mage spells. Go back to the original schools and more. You hated the gameplay of the spells or the fact that the magic schools appeared muddled compared to Origins?
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 28, 2017 17:33:58 GMT
Ultimately, Inquisition had too many same-y abilities, and I hated what they did to mage spells. Go back to the original schools and more. You hated the gameplay of the spells or the fact that the magic schools appeared muddled compared to Origins? Bit of both. The spells lost a lot of their charm and identity. I know why they did it too, its easier to differentiate spells into their elements and provide bonuses that way, but the lack of sustain spells, the over-emphasis on "tactical spells" (wall of ice, fire and the electrical prison are CC designed for the tactical view I always felt) in 3/4 spell trees and the "sameness" of some of the spells and abilities when compared to the other two classes was not as exciting or inventing for me. I got more character builds for mages out of Origins and Dragon Age 2.
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Post by Wulfram on Aug 28, 2017 18:58:15 GMT
Yeah, the 3 elemental trees felt like 1 tree needlessly duplicated, while many of the more distinct and interesting spells were turned into specialisations.
You could boil the elemental trees down to something like
Fade Step Winters Grasp (damage+CC combo) Fire Mine (AoE Damage) Energy Barrage (Single target Damage) Static Cage (blocking spell)
And not really lose much. Though I wouldn't mind if you had two damage trees, like DA2. But we definitely needed the Necromancer tree freed from the specialisation and restored as Entropy.
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 28, 2017 19:32:19 GMT
Yeah, the 3 elemental trees felt like 1 tree needlessly duplicated, while many of the more distinct and interesting spells were turned into specialisations. You could boil the elemental trees down to something like Fade Step Winters Grasp (damage+CC combo) Fire Mine (AoE Damage) Energy Barrage (Single target Damage) Static Cage (blocking spell) And not really lose much. Though I wouldn't mind if you had two damage trees, like DA2. But we definitely needed the Necromancer tree freed from the specialisation and restored as Entropy. I can only hope they will make an entropy tree again, it is usually my favorite form of damage and crowd control.
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Post by simit on Aug 28, 2017 19:37:36 GMT
I like fast so 2 wins it for me, although best an most fun combat i ever had was dragons dogma: dark arisen, no bioware, no bethesda an no cdpr combat comes close to that game for fun combat.
I liked some of the individual skills in da:i but yeah was a huge step backwards in terms of skill trees, i actually thought, especially mage, that advanced specs were utterly boring, most my mages just went base skills an ignored advanced, da:o meh it did the job, i can understand the appeal of it for stone age rpers, but tbh im one of the auld timers that is actualy preferring more action orientated gameplay, my inner child i suppose.
I still play some of old top down rpg an prob will buy divinity but i like the direction bioware had took an look forward i guess to next installment, i just hoping for more specs ala da2
Ohh i liked the approach in me:a with having everything available to player an they build there own player, skills i mean, imagine having all mage, warrior, rogue skills available an you just build n play your own style, i think thats way forward, the trinity can an should be left behind now aswell
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Post by Quickpaw on Aug 28, 2017 21:43:42 GMT
I like fast so 2 wins it for me, although best an most fun combat i ever had was dragons dogma: dark arisen, no bioware, no bethesda an no cdpr combat comes close to that game for fun combat. I liked some of the individual skills in da:i but yeah was a huge step backwards in terms of skill trees, i actually thought, especially mage, that advanced specs were utterly boring, most my mages just went base skills an ignored advanced, da:o meh it did the job, i can understand the appeal of it for stone age rpers, but tbh im one of the auld timers that is actualy preferring more action orientated gameplay, my inner child i suppose. I still play some of old top down rpg an prob will buy divinity but i like the direction bioware had took an look forward i guess to next installment, i just hoping for more specs ala da2 Ohh i liked the approach in me:a with having everything available to player an they build there own player, skills i mean, imagine having all mage, warrior, rogue skills available an you just build n play your own style, i think thats way forward, the trinity can an should be left behind now aswell Kingdoms of Amalur: The Reckoning has a similar class structure if you haven't tried it yet. The fellow who designed the "card" system for it also worked on ME:A's profile system.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Aug 29, 2017 19:35:50 GMT
You hated the gameplay of the spells or the fact that the magic schools appeared muddled compared to Origins? Bit of both. The spells lost a lot of their charm and identity. I know why they did it too, its easier to differentiate spells into their elements and provide bonuses that way, but the lack of sustain spells, the over-emphasis on "tactical spells" (wall of ice, fire and the electrical prison are CC designed for the tactical view I always felt) in 3/4 spell trees and the "sameness" of some of the spells and abilities when compared to the other two classes was not as exciting or inventing for me. I got more character builds for mages out of Origins and Dragon Age 2. I was just happy to get useful CC back after DA2. DAI's Static Cage was a fine replacement for DAO's Paralysis Explosion. I did much prefer the diversity of options available in DAO, though. The Glyph line was inspired, and I missed its like in the subsequent games. Also, Animate Dead created a persistent pet - I'd love to have that back, as well.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Aug 29, 2017 19:39:12 GMT
Kingdoms of Amalur: The Reckoning has a similar class structure if you haven't tried it yet. The fellow who designed the "card" system for it also worked on ME:A's profile system. I followed the development of KoA (the devs were terrific - they added the option to disable quest markers specifically because the forum asked for it), and I was disappointed by the class advancement options. I had been hoping that there would be some possible benefit to not advancing through it (say, one class was better at some specific thing than any subsequent level was), but in the end advancement was a no-brainer.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 29, 2017 19:49:28 GMT
Bit of both. The spells lost a lot of their charm and identity. I know why they did it too, its easier to differentiate spells into their elements and provide bonuses that way, but the lack of sustain spells, the over-emphasis on "tactical spells" (wall of ice, fire and the electrical prison are CC designed for the tactical view I always felt) in 3/4 spell trees and the "sameness" of some of the spells and abilities when compared to the other two classes was not as exciting or inventing for me. I got more character builds for mages out of Origins and Dragon Age 2. I was just happy to get useful CC back after DA2. DAI's Static Cage was a fine replacement for DAO's Paralysis Explosion. I did much prefer the diversity of options available in DAO, though. The Glyph line was inspired, and I missed its like in the subsequent games. Also, Animate Dead created a persistent pet - I'd love to have that back, as well. Put animate dead in the necro specialization would be a good change. I found the cc options of 2 to be a bit more responsive, although it was limited. Sword and board warriors like aveline or some of my Hawke's were better in that role than a cc anders or bethany.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Aug 30, 2017 16:56:14 GMT
I found the cc options of 2 to be a bit more responsive, although it was limited. Sword and board warriors like aveline or some of my Hawke's were better in that role than a cc anders or bethany. I strongly oppose tanking. The goal of CC should be to avoid getting hit.
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Post by eskiya on Aug 30, 2017 18:02:24 GMT
I'd like to see classes get more... distinct. Like others have said, mage skill trees did seem to just be copy-paste and slap a different element on it, and I'm sure a lot of the other classes had similar issues too.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 30, 2017 21:27:35 GMT
I found the cc options of 2 to be a bit more responsive, although it was limited. Sword and board warriors like aveline or some of my Hawke's were better in that role than a cc anders or bethany. I strongly oppose tanking. The goal of CC should be to avoid getting hit. That is all but impossible though, you will get hit eventually. Cc is mitigating the impact of the hits taken, rearanging if that makes sense.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Aug 30, 2017 22:18:35 GMT
I strongly oppose tanking. The goal of CC should be to avoid getting hit. That is all but impossible though, you will get hit eventually. Cc is mitigating the impact of the hits taken, rearanging if that makes sense. I might eventually get hit (not necessarily, though), but that's beside the point. Tanking is actively choosing to get hit. That's dumb.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 30, 2017 22:48:40 GMT
That is all but impossible though, you will get hit eventually. Cc is mitigating the impact of the hits taken, rearanging if that makes sense. I might eventually get hit (not necessarily, though), but that's beside the point. Tanking is actively choosing to get hit. That's dumb. Sometimes folks are crazy though. As for the context of the game, it's a forced mechanic anyway.
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House Targaryen
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Post by House Targaryen on Aug 31, 2017 0:55:38 GMT
That is all but impossible though, you will get hit eventually. Cc is mitigating the impact of the hits taken, rearanging if that makes sense. I might eventually get hit (not necessarily, though), but that's beside the point. Tanking is actively choosing to get hit. That's dumb. Better to stay far back in the shadows and cast nasty offensive spells.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Aug 31, 2017 19:19:16 GMT
Better to stay far back in the shadows and cast nasty offensive spells. Or snipe from extreme range.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Aug 31, 2017 19:21:52 GMT
As for the context of the game, it's a forced mechanic anyway. It's a bad mechanic that never made any sense outside of the extremely contrived mechanics of MMORPGs. You know me. I never accept gameplay/lore segregation without complaint. Or gameplay/story. Or story/lore. One coherent system for everything.
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August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Sept 2, 2017 19:54:34 GMT
I like tanking. I like facing my enemies head on. It makes me feel powerful. Sniping from the distance or attacking from the shadows may be more prudent, but it feels cowardly. This is, after all, a fantasy game; it's not like I have to worry about pain or blood loss or infections.
I do miss the "curse" spells that were once part of Dragon Age, like Misdirection Hex and so forth. I was also a big fan of Horror.
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