kino
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Post by kino on Aug 10, 2017 18:23:03 GMT
Interesting subject. It'll be interesting to see how the poll goes vs the commentary. Wondering if this thread will make it as long as yours did? Wait...I had a thread? I didn't make a thread did I? Unless I was drinking, in which case I could totally see myself making a thread. Otherwise, this thread seems pretty civil so far.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 18:31:02 GMT
So what's the dealio with this stuff these days? Is it still the situation that all it takes to become overwhelmed with SJWs is to have a gay character in the game or is the SJW thing just the automatic state of anything the edgelords are having heart failures over? LGBT Racial Diversity Feminist POV 'Ugly' characters Basically I would suspect anything that was a target for Sarkeesian or her femfrequency channel and in her tropes. I really think the core of this is related to her or centered around her.
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Post by warrior on Aug 10, 2017 18:38:24 GMT
Wondering if this thread will make it as long as yours did? Wait...I had a thread? I didn't make a thread did I? Unless I was drinking, in which case I could totally see myself making a thread. Otherwise, this thread seems pretty civil so far. I thought it was you but it was not. I don't know why. I can't remember who started it now.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 18:42:46 GMT
Does a bear shit in the woods? I've said it before and I'll say it again. It would've been better to have the Asari be described as an all-female species. They did. It was a rhetorical question. I don't see a huge difference between PUA's and SJW's (the stereotypical ones). Both are equally shady.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 18:46:28 GMT
Does a bear shit in the woods? They did. It was a rhetorical question. I don't see a huge difference between PUA's and SJW's (the stereotypical ones). Both are equally shady. Shady? Yes, but their ideologies are diametrically opposed.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 18:51:37 GMT
It was a rhetorical question. I don't see a huge difference between PUA's and SJW's (the stereotypical ones). Both are equally shady. Shady? Yes, but their ideologies are diametrically opposed. True but their end goals are similar.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 18:54:36 GMT
Shady? Yes, but their ideologies are diametrically opposed. True but their end goals are similar. What? PUAs' goals are to sleep with as many women as possible. An SJW's goal is to impose extremist and generally sexist/racist views on others.
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Post by turianlannister on Aug 10, 2017 18:59:13 GMT
One thing that perplexed me about some of the videos criticizing ME:A was how people were claiming that SJW's ruined the game. I'm not focusing on other criticisms, like facial animations or the story, which I felt was good sometimes and uninspired at other times, but more, I want to focus on what is causing people to claim that SJW's had influenced the game in a negative way. What were some instances in the game or the game' s development that could be considered "SJW-like", and what were some other instances suggest otherwise. This way we can avoid cherry picking. Final note: Let's all try to be civil about things, if I or anyone else happens to be sounding uncivil, feel perfectly free to call me/them out. The claims are that SJWs ruined the game because they 'forced the developers to make the women ugly' (most of the men in the game were pretty ugly as well, case in point that guy (Ben?) who Vetra talks to in the Citadel docks before you board the Normandy for the first time), because Cora had an 'SJW' hairstyle (it looked more like a 'can I talk to the manager hairstyle from one side IMO) and there were no straight female LIs with long hair and because they forced the devs to include gay male romances. Oh and one of the dumbest was some dude whining on Facebook recently about there being gay krogan in the game, when I asked him for proof he linked to a twitter post complaining about gay krogan which had this video as 'proof' of gay krogan being in the game - Yeah, because a krogan having a lower pitched voice means she's a gay male Edit - Cora's hair also reminds me of this - imgur.com/GFSmUAL
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 10, 2017 19:05:52 GMT
One thing that perplexed me about some of the videos criticizing ME:A was how people were claiming that SJW's ruined the game. I'm not focusing on other criticisms, like facial animations or the story, which I felt was good sometimes and uninspired at other times, but more, I want to focus on what is causing people to claim that SJW's had influenced the game in a negative way. What were some instances in the game or the game' s development that could be considered "SJW-like", and what were some other instances suggest otherwise. This way we can avoid cherry picking. Final note: Let's all try to be civil about things, if I or anyone else happens to be sounding uncivil, feel perfectly free to call me/them out. The claims are that SJWs ruined the game because they 'forced the developers to make the women ugly' (most of the men in the game were pretty ugly as well, case in point that guy (Ben?) who Vetra talks to in the Citadel docks before you board the Normandy for the first time), because Cora had an 'SJW' hairstyle (it looked more like a 'can I talk to the manager hairstyle from one side IMO) and there were no straight female LIs with long hair and because they forced the devs to include gay male romances. Oh and one of the dumbest was some dude whining on Facebook recently about there being gay krogan in the game, when I asked him for proof he linked to a twitter post complaining about gay krogan which had this video as 'proof' of gay krogan being in the game - Yeah, because a krogan having a lower pitched voice means she's a gay male OMG I don't know if I find people ranting in the comments ignoring that Kesh is a female and blaming "SJWs" and "political correctness" hilarious or disturbing. BTW, Kesh is, to me, one of the only good characters on the Nexus. Calling Tann "Eight" to remind him he was 8th in line to keep him humble is great.
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Post by turianlannister on Aug 10, 2017 19:09:45 GMT
Oh and one of the dumbest was some dude whining on Facebook recently about there being gay krogan in the game, when I asked him for proof he linked to a twitter post complaining about gay krogan which had this video as 'proof' of gay krogan being in the game - Yeah, because a krogan having a lower pitched voice means she's a gay male OMG I don't know if I find people ranting in the comments ignoring that Kesh is a female and blaming "SJWs" and "political correctness" hilarious or disturbing. BTW, Kesh is, to me, one of the only good characters on the Nexus. Calling Tann "Eight" to remind him he was 8th in line to keep him humble is great. If they're still ignoring that Kesh is a woman they're probably blaming SJWs for the fact that krogan women aren't sexualised and prettier than the men like what happens with WoW races
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Post by sageoflife on Aug 10, 2017 19:12:28 GMT
No joke, I have seen people claim that if you have a problem with someone writing a romance novel about a Jewish concentration camp inmate falling in love with a Nazi and converting to Christianity, you're an "SJW" who wants to police people's thoughts. I was already extremely skeptical about the existence of "SJWs", but that cemented my opinion that they don't actually exist.
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Post by tacsear on Aug 10, 2017 19:29:36 GMT
I'd say in the middle. Although it is not as ridicilous as people claim it to be there are certainly visible influences. The amount of female Krogan would be my first pick.
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Aug 10, 2017 19:34:16 GMT
Wait...I had a thread? I didn't make a thread did I? Unless I was drinking, in which case I could totally see myself making a thread. Otherwise, this thread seems pretty civil so far. I thought it was you but it was not. I don't know why. I can't remember who started it now. Well, that's a relief. Drunk posting has led to some embarrassing situations in the past.
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Post by hivemind on Aug 10, 2017 19:34:49 GMT
The only damage that i can safely attribute to SJW is the crippled Mass Effect's Lore.
Asari sudddenly become very sensitive to gender pronounces. And there is also Krogans and Salarians who - despite their historical unequal social structures - become fully equal. To the point when salarian female is serving as an assistant to a krogan female!
I could have get over it if those changes were explained but they are not! They just suddenly appeared out of nowhere because - oh yeah, writer was really eager tell us his stance on bill C16.
Every other damage that MEA is suffering from is just a result of incomeptence which is not unique to SJWs. So did SJW ruin MEA as a game? No, game was ruined by incompetence, but what SJW ruined is ME's lore which is to me much more devastating.
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Post by q5tyhj on Aug 10, 2017 19:35:06 GMT
Oh its pure delusion, no doubt about it.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 19:46:08 GMT
True but their end goals are similar. What? PUAs' goals are to sleep with as many women as possible. An SJW's goal is to impose extremist and generally sexist/racist views on others. My mistake.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 19:52:13 GMT
No joke, I have seen people claim that if you have a problem with someone writing a romance novel about a Jewish concentration camp inmate falling in love with a Nazi and converting to Christianity, you're an "SJW" who wants to police people's thoughts. I was already extremely skeptical about the existence of "SJWs", but that cemented my opinion that they don't actually exist. It's a boogiemen created by gamers to direct their hatred towards something. The kinds of anti-SJW's I've seen are fear-mongering hypocrites. Granted I don't mind a joke that says something bad about SJW's when talking about a strong female protagonist or something, but the kinds you see in youtube comments is disturbing more than anything.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 19:56:06 GMT
The claims are that SJWs ruined the game because they 'forced the developers to make the women ugly' (most of the men in the game were pretty ugly as well, case in point that guy (Ben?) who Vetra talks to in the Citadel docks before you board the Normandy for the first time), because Cora had an 'SJW' hairstyle (it looked more like a 'can I talk to the manager hairstyle from one side IMO) and there were no straight female LIs with long hair and because they forced the devs to include gay male romances. Oh and one of the dumbest was some dude whining on Facebook recently about there being gay krogan in the game, when I asked him for proof he linked to a twitter post complaining about gay krogan which had this video as 'proof' of gay krogan being in the game - Yeah, because a krogan having a lower pitched voice means she's a gay male OMG I don't know if I find people ranting in the comments ignoring that Kesh is a female and blaming "SJWs" and "political correctness" hilarious or disturbing. BTW, Kesh is, to me, one of the only good characters on the Nexus. Calling Tann "Eight" to remind him he was 8th in line to keep him humble is great. Hehe. In the case of people commenting about "SJW's" and ignoring that Kesh is female, really just shows how much cherrypicking some people will do. At this point, my opinion on some of those people, especially youtube commenters, is that they are fallacious, delusional, and bigoted.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 20:02:49 GMT
One thing that perplexed me about some of the videos criticizing ME:A was how people were claiming that SJW's ruined the game. I'm not focusing on other criticisms, like facial animations or the story, which I felt was good sometimes and uninspired at other times, but more, I want to focus on what is causing people to claim that SJW's had influenced the game in a negative way. What were some instances in the game or the game' s development that could be considered "SJW-like", and what were some other instances suggest otherwise. This way we can avoid cherry picking. Final note: Let's all try to be civil about things, if I or anyone else happens to be sounding uncivil, feel perfectly free to call me/them out. The claims are that SJWs ruined the game because they 'forced the developers to make the women ugly' (most of the men in the game were pretty ugly as well, case in point that guy (Ben?) who Vetra talks to in the Citadel docks before you board the Normandy for the first time), because Cora had an 'SJW' hairstyle (it looked more like a 'can I talk to the manager hairstyle from one side IMO) and there were no straight female LIs with long hair and because they forced the devs to include gay male romances. Oh and one of the dumbest was some dude whining on Facebook recently about there being gay krogan in the game, when I asked him for proof he linked to a twitter post complaining about gay krogan which had this video as 'proof' of gay krogan being in the game - Yeah, because a krogan having a lower pitched voice means she's a gay male Edit - Cora's hair also reminds me of this - imgur.com/GFSmUALI felt the females looked ugly AT TIMES. Other times, females looked great. The whole "SJW's MAKING OUR FEMALES UGLY ON PURPOSE NERRRRR", is a conspiracy that I suspect originated from those comments Manveer Heir made about white people. I know about that interview that suikoden brought up but I still don't trust Manveer because even if he isn't a racist he's a professional victim, unless other people in the company left during production for similar reasons.
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Post by Guts on Aug 10, 2017 20:03:28 GMT
Oh shit, I think I'm starting to sound a bit like fluffy/pouf.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 20:33:44 GMT
The only damage that i can safely attribute to SJW is the crippled Mass Effect's Lore. Asari sudddenly become very sensitive to gender pronounces. It might be more accurate to say that, if asked, they will state that some do prefer masculine pronouns. I'm not sure what you mean by unequal. The krogan were separated into male and female clans (which included the children) for a time, each with its own leadership, shaman, etc. Once the genophage was cured, they reorganized into family units, as we were shown in the slides at the end of ME3. Salarian females are rare, and serve as Dalatrasses (matriarchal head-of-household). Salarian society has been described as a labyrinthine web of matrilineal bloodlines. But we're not in TMW anymore. Outside of the krogan colony, TMW species don't yet have home planets. Their only species specific structure would be within the individual Arks - outside of that, they are all part of the Ai and however its social organization functions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 20:43:38 GMT
Plus, tbh, it's normal to build on something people liked in a previous title in the sequel. I am afraid to ask, but personally, I loved Eve in the ME3, and was happy to see both Turian and Krogan females in Andromeda. For a while, during the Trilogy, I thought Turians were all male society, until Garrus mentioned a girlfriend. So, to me it was weirder that we did not see krogan or turian females in the original, which I assigned to budgetary constraints, than seeing them in Andromeda.
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Post by q5tyhj on Aug 10, 2017 20:44:47 GMT
For starters, it would help if people could actually come to a consensus on what an "SJW" is, since as far as I can see it's just code for people being upset that women and minorities being treated well. Its not so much that there isn't a consensus on the definition of "SJW", its that the people who like to cry about SJWs routinely engage in this shell game of equivocating between "SJW" in the straightforwardly literal sense (someone who endorses social justice) and "SJW" in the relevant pejorative sense (someone who endorses social justice for disingenuous reasons, with hypocritical arguments, etc.). And you're not going to get them to stop because their positions and arguments almost always require this equivocation.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 20:50:01 GMT
Plus, tbh, it's normal to build on something people liked in a previous title in the sequel. I am afraid to ask, but personally, I loved Eve in the ME3, and was happy to see both Turian and Krogan females in Andromeda. For a while, during the Trilogy, I thought Turians were all male society, until Garrus mentioned a girlfriend. Yeah, it's something a lot of people had been asking about for quite awhile. We didn't see any female krogan, salarians, or turians until ME3 - and the turians were in DLC! The first 2 are understandable due to their social structure at the time, but there should have been female turians on the Citadel, in merc bands, as CSEC officers, etc. all along.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 20:54:33 GMT
Plus, tbh, it's normal to build on something people liked in a previous title in the sequel. I am afraid to ask, but personally, I loved Eve in the ME3, and was happy to see both Turian and Krogan females in Andromeda. For a while, during the Trilogy, I thought Turians were all male society, until Garrus mentioned a girlfriend. Yeah, it's something a lot of people had been asking about for quite awhile. We didn't see any female krogan, salarians, or turians until ME3 - and the turians were in DLC! The first 2 are understandable due to their social structure at the time, but there should have been female turians on the Citadel, in merc bands, as CSEC officers, etc. all along. Well, I am wondering how much those social structures are a result of the budgetary constraints and how much - of the free-flowing inspiration. For example, if they were creating Asari just now, would not they have inserted a small lore twist that made facial features uniformity a feature rather than an irritant.... I don't think the lore is completely independent of "what do we have money for, boss? What can we build, engineers?"
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