anarchy65
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 12, 2017 15:16:06 GMT
"Cora's lesbian haircut is a little annoying"
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 12, 2017 15:27:24 GMT
I'd never heard of it till this forum. Perhaps for the best...but here is an example: And people thought Andromeda was bad...it's a lot more competent than this crap. Oh goddess that's bad.
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I'd rather be Mordin Solus
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Aug 12, 2017 17:25:22 GMT
Their argument basically is: Bioware wants to "force" women, LGBT, etc into the story, and that results in bad writing. LOL, it just doesn't make any sense. Considering that in this thread, we could only find, like, two instances of "SJW influence", one of which was very minor and the other could probably be attributed to a writer not playing a Mass Effect game, I agree with this. As several other people have stated, "Don't mistake incompetence with political agenda." Remember, this is an echo chamber. The important question is not what Bioware Fanboys and Girls think. We're already sold. If we hope to see a decent Mass Effect 5, Bioware must pay attention to the AVERAGE hetero male gamer. And that means more Yennefer, less Blueberry Shrek and Tumbler Hair.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 12, 2017 17:45:22 GMT
If we hope to see a decent Mass Effect 5, Bioware must pay attention to the AVERAGE hetero male gamer. And by "AVERAGE" you mean "NORMAL", I take it? Even giving the benefit of the doubt, I'm pretty confident that Bioware would claim they have provided plenty of conventional attractiveness for bangable female characters. As there is no accounting for taste, complaints about Cora or Peebee or Suvi (the latter for not being bangable by Bro Ryder) don't necessarily indicate a failure on Bioware's part. Unless the complaints are a sizable super-majority. And in any case, sooner or later someone will post Cheat Engine settings that make any bangable character bangable by anyone. Or a mod. Or both. So all's well that ends well, yes? Tumbler hair is HAWT!
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anarchy65
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 12, 2017 18:11:50 GMT
Considering that in this thread, we could only find, like, two instances of "SJW influence", one of which was very minor and the other could probably be attributed to a writer not playing a Mass Effect game, I agree with this. As several other people have stated, "Don't mistake incompetence with political agenda." Remember, this is an echo chamber. The important question is not what Bioware Fanboys and Girls think. We're already sold. If we hope to see a decent Mass Effect 5, Bioware must pay attention to the AVERAGE hetero male gamer. And that means more Yennefer, less Blueberry Shrek and Tumbler Hair. No.
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anarchy65
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 12, 2017 18:12:47 GMT
"Hey Bioware, you must create some very hot chicks, or I won't play your game!"
Seriously, can you be more idiot than that?
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Post by Guts on Aug 12, 2017 18:22:17 GMT
Perhaps for the best...but here is an example: And people thought Andromeda was bad...it's a lot more competent than this crap. Oh goddess that's bad. I might just consider buying Ride to Hell Retribution because of how bad it is. The sex scenes were astonishingly awful.
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 12, 2017 18:23:01 GMT
I might just consider buying Ride to Hell Retribution because of how bad it is. The sex scenes were astonishingly awful. "I'd rather be Mordin Solus" must love it, since it has hot chicks, and that's all he wants on a game.
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Post by Guts on Aug 12, 2017 18:24:48 GMT
I might just consider buying Ride to Hell Retribution because of how bad it is. The sex scenes were astonishingly awful. "I'd rather be Mordin Solus" must love it, since it has hot chicks, and that's all he wants on a game. You sir have officially made my day. XD BTW may I borrow that GIF real quickly?
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Post by Guts on Aug 12, 2017 18:25:44 GMT
Considering that in this thread, we could only find, like, two instances of "SJW influence", one of which was very minor and the other could probably be attributed to a writer not playing a Mass Effect game, I agree with this. As several other people have stated, "Don't mistake incompetence with political agenda." Remember, this is an echo chamber. The important question is not what Bioware Fanboys and Girls think. We're already sold. If we hope to see a decent Mass Effect 5, Bioware must pay attention to the AVERAGE hetero male gamer. And that means more Yennefer, less Blueberry Shrek and Tumbler Hair.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Aug 12, 2017 18:37:15 GMT
If we hope to see a decent Mass Effect 5, Bioware must pay attention to the AVERAGE hetero male gamer. And by "AVERAGE" you mean "NORMAL", I take it? Even giving the benefit of the doubt, I'm pretty confident that Bioware would claim they have provided plenty of conventional attractiveness for bangable female characters. As there is no accounting for taste, complaints about Cora or Peebee or Suvi (the latter for not being bangable by Bro Ryder) don't necessarily indicate a failure on Bioware's part. Unless the complaints are a sizable super-majority. And in any case, sooner or later someone will post Cheat Engine settings that make any bangable character bangable by anyone. Or a mod. Or both. So all's well that ends well, yes? Tumbler hair is HAWT! Average. I don't believe in normal. But I do believe in percentages. And, I do believe there were enough unhappy males to make a difference. I think the above video captures the average male's take on the women in MEA.
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Post by sageoflife on Aug 12, 2017 18:38:30 GMT
And by "AVERAGE" you mean "NORMAL", I take it? Even giving the benefit of the doubt, I'm pretty confident that Bioware would claim they have provided plenty of conventional attractiveness for bangable female characters. As there is no accounting for taste, complaints about Cora or Peebee or Suvi (the latter for not being bangable by Bro Ryder) don't necessarily indicate a failure on Bioware's part. Unless the complaints are a sizable super-majority. And in any case, sooner or later someone will post Cheat Engine settings that make any bangable character bangable by anyone. Or a mod. Or both. So all's well that ends well, yes? Tumbler hair is HAWT! Average. I don't believe in normal. But I do believe in percentages. And, I do believe there were enough unhappy males to make a difference. I think the above video captures the average male's take on the women in MEA. Who elected you the spokesman for the "average" straight male player?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 12, 2017 18:40:02 GMT
Considering that in this thread, we could only find, like, two instances of "SJW influence", one of which was very minor and the other could probably be attributed to a writer not playing a Mass Effect game, I agree with this. As several other people have stated, "Don't mistake incompetence with political agenda." Remember, this is an echo chamber. The important question is not what Bioware Fanboys and Girls think. We're already sold. If we hope to see a decent Mass Effect 5, Bioware must pay attention to the AVERAGE hetero male gamer. And that means more Yennefer, less Blueberry Shrek and Tumbler Hair. I'm not sure where "decent" is coming from. Hasn't your whole shtick in this thread been that we need to take the tastes of the poor sexists into account without actually signing on with their views yourself?
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Aug 12, 2017 18:44:00 GMT
Remember, this is an echo chamber. The important question is not what Bioware Fanboys and Girls think. We're already sold. If we hope to see a decent Mass Effect 5, Bioware must pay attention to the AVERAGE hetero male gamer. And that means more Yennefer, less Blueberry Shrek and Tumbler Hair. I'm not sure where "decent" is coming from. Hasn't your whole shtick in this thread been that we need to take the tastes of the poor sexists into account without actually signing on with their views yourself? Right. Confusing word. I just meant a good reboot of Mass Effect, with big budget and support from EA and Bioware.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Aug 12, 2017 18:45:21 GMT
Average. I don't believe in normal. But I do believe in percentages. And, I do believe there were enough unhappy males to make a difference. I think the above video captures the average male's take on the women in MEA. Who elected you the spokesman for the "average" straight male player? Sales numbers and forums outside this echo chamber.
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Post by sageoflife on Aug 12, 2017 18:52:40 GMT
Who elected you the spokesman for the "average" straight male player? Sales numbers and forums outside this echo chamber. You mean the sales numbers that show this game made a profit? And what makes those echo chambers better than this one?
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I'd rather be Mordin Solus
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Aug 12, 2017 19:36:16 GMT
Sales numbers and forums outside this echo chamber. You mean the sales numbers that show this game made a profit? And what makes those echo chambers better than this one? It sold alright, but not nearly as well as it could have. Hence the hiatus. Lookism was only a part of the problem, but a significant part. And you're right, those other echo chambers are probably more toxic than this one, although I've seen a lot of nastiness here, too. All echo chambers are unhelpful, and in the long run dangerous. Snark breeds snark. Extremism feeds extremism. Here and in the larger world. It's a challenge, these days, just to allow yourself to see the "other" as a human being. You want realistic portrayals of women and men in games. I respect that. Let's make a large percentage of woman and men average. But there's a lot of people who want a few fantasy women and men. Let's be tolerant of their desires, too.
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Post by phantomrachie on Aug 12, 2017 19:36:20 GMT
I genuinely don't understand why people are mad about that. Liara & the codex say in ME1 that gender has no real meaning for Asari so the fact that they were always referred with female pronouns was the weird part. The gender conversion in the archives was just fixing that. Many languages have gendered pronouns but I'm willing to bet the Asari one doesn't so when their neutral pronoun gets translated into a gendered one some Asari don't like when it is automatically the female one, makes sense to me. The problem people have is for the exact reason you stated. Liara & the codex say in ME1 that gender has no real meaning for Asari. Now, the asari suddenly care about pronouns. That would be the rub. Gender has no meaning to them and yet they get assigned a gender by other races. The Asari go their entire long lives being misgendered by ever race they come across. It makes sense that some of them would like to choose the pronouns other races use for them instead of being assigned a gender by the first alien rando they come across. You are assuming all Asari are happy with all aliens calling them by a gender they don't have, even if gender has no meaning for them, it doesnt mean they don't care about being called the wrong thing. I don't really think about gender at all but it would bother me if you were to use male pronouns for me.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 12, 2017 19:41:27 GMT
The problem people have is for the exact reason you stated. Liara & the codex say in ME1 that gender has no real meaning for Asari. Now, the asari suddenly care about pronouns. That would be the rub. Gender has no meaning to them and yet they get assigned a gender by other races. The Asari go their entire long lives being misgendered by ever race they come across. It makes sense that some of them would like to choose the pronouns other races use for them instead of being assigned a gender by the first alien rando they come across. You are assuming all Asari are happy with all aliens calling them by a gender they don't have, even if gender has no meaning for them, it doesnt mean they don't care about being called the wrong thing. I don't really think about gender at all but it would bother me if you were to use male pronouns for me. Asari have gender. They have one gender. That gender is female (thus, "monogendered"). Differences in gender are meaningless to them because they have no other genders to be different from. It would be like us having a name for "third handedness" when we only have left or right-hand dominance.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 12, 2017 19:53:00 GMT
I find it ironic how the whole thing with asari having different pronouns is being called an SJW thing considering it was started by Casey Hudson being anti-SJW when saying that Shepard was canonically straight thus no s/s options around when ME2 came out. When people brought up Femshep and Liara, that's when he talked about how asari aren't really female and all that stuff despite the lore saying otherwise. Later people brought up Femshep and Kelly and that's when Hudson had to step away from his previous comments.
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 12, 2017 19:53:19 GMT
Gender has no meaning to them and yet they get assigned a gender by other races. The Asari go their entire long lives being misgendered by ever race they come across. It makes sense that some of them would like to choose the pronouns other races use for them instead of being assigned a gender by the first alien rando they come across. You are assuming all Asari are happy with all aliens calling them by a gender they don't have, even if gender has no meaning for them, it doesnt mean they don't care about being called the wrong thing. I don't really think about gender at all but it would bother me if you were to use male pronouns for me. Asari have gender. They have one gender. That gender is female (thus, "monogendered"). Differences in gender are meaningless to them because they have no other genders to be different from. It would be like us having a name for "third handedness" when we only have left or right-hand dominance. I'm pretty sure Liara says on a dialogue "The word gender has no real meaning to us"
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Post by shechinah on Aug 12, 2017 19:56:44 GMT
It seems like the developers could never decide on a consistent portrayal of the asari. According to a pre-ME2 interview, the asari are biologically asexual but according to a codex, the asari are a mono-gender race and yet Liara claims that male and female has no real meaning to them despite the fact that the asari exclusively use feminine words and pronouns.
To be honest, I see the exchange between the asari and angaran ambassador as another example of the all tell, no show problem that frequents with the asari on this matter. That said, I don't find it intrusive to the asari lore because it does not make sense that the asari would consider themselves to be exclusively female.
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Post by warrior on Aug 12, 2017 19:57:03 GMT
I find it ironic how the whole thing with asari having different pronouns is being called an SJW thing considering it was started by Casey Hudson being anti-SJW when saying that Shepard was canonically straight thus no s/s options around when ME2 came out. When people brought up Femshep and Liara, that's when he talked about how asari aren't really female and all that stuff. Later people brought up Femshep and Kelly and that's when Hudson had to step away from his previous comments. Oh WHOA, I did not know this. That's gross.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Aug 12, 2017 19:57:45 GMT
Remember, this is an echo chamber. The important question is not what Bioware Fanboys and Girls think. We're already sold. If we hope to see a decent Mass Effect 5, Bioware must pay attention to the AVERAGE hetero male gamer. And that means more Yennefer, less Blueberry Shrek and Tumbler Hair. I'm not sure where "decent" is coming from. Hasn't your whole shtick in this thread been that we need to take the tastes of the poor sexists into account without actually signing on with their views yourself? And be care of the all-or-nothing thinking. Wanting to play with a few conventionally beautiful NPCs doesn't make a person sexist.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 12, 2017 19:59:04 GMT
Asari have gender. They have one gender. That gender is female (thus, "monogendered"). Differences in gender are meaningless to them because they have no other genders to be different from. It would be like us having a name for "third handedness" when we only have left or right-hand dominance. I'm pretty sure Liara says on a dialogue "The word gender has no real meaning to us" I could only find this quote from the Wiki to confirm what you were saying. Link to Wiki
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