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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Dec 12, 2021 14:37:31 GMT
I found it too hard to keep track of where the /quote and /spoiler tags should be. ![](https://c.tenor.com/ye8cOK2ZjrMAAAAd/phantom-menace.gif) I've noticed that a bit. With Firefox if I middle-mouse click on 'Quote' it opens a new tab with the quoted reply.
For every quote I make I middle click and delete everything but the first/last [ quote]. (If there are a billion parts I'm quoting.)
There was a parody of this gif that said "Wipe them out......All 97.3 percent of them"
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Post by dragontartare on Dec 13, 2021 1:29:31 GMT
The show has made me want to reread the series, so I'll probably start that soon. I just ordered new copies of Crossroads of Twilight and Towers of Midnight, because I can't find my copies. CoT was kind of hard to find, actually, because my #1-#11 are all the shitty cover art mass market paperbacks, and I wanted CoT to match.
Is anyone else doing a reread thanks to the show?
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 13, 2021 1:47:42 GMT
The show has made me want to reread the series, so I'll probably start that soon. I just ordered new copies of Crossroads of Twilight and Towers of Midnight, because I can't find my copies. CoT was kind of hard to find, actually, because my #1-#11 are all the shitty cover art mass market paperbacks, and I wanted CoT to match. Is anyone else doing a reread thanks to the show? I'm not likely to. Maybe in a few years, though. Life being what it is, there hasn't been a huge amount of reading time, lately.
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Post by dragontartare on Dec 13, 2021 1:50:29 GMT
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 13, 2021 3:15:31 GMT
What the hell...? Weird.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 3:38:33 GMT
Thanks, that's quite informative. Also... boo. My B plot notions have been dashed. Mat's one of my favourites, I'd hoped to see more not less.
Is anyone else doing a reread thanks to the show? Nope. Briefly considered it but I don't read as much as I used to and have a backlog. Also it's a matter of mood and appreciation. There are a couple books I want to read but I just haven't been in the mindset to enjoy them properly.
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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 13, 2021 5:19:28 GMT
Dam, that's crazy, I didn't realize this. Well, given the circumstances that was handled quite well then, I think. Just goes to show how crazy tv show production is. Reminds me a lot (and gives me even more appreciation) for J. Michael Straczynski and Babylon 5 back in the day, trying to get a 5+ year arc done and him planning for all sort of contingencies within his plot (some of which, like the leave taking of Michael O'Hare as Cmdr. Sinclair were actually needed). Well, I am curious to see how they'll handle the re-introduction of the new Mat in season 2. Will they actually acknowledge and explain the change in appearance within the show somehow or will they just act like the new actor is just the same guy? Will be interesting to say the least.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 13, 2021 5:46:08 GMT
Well, I am curious to see how they'll handle the re-introduction of the new Mat in season 2. Will they actually acknowledge and explain the change in appearance within the show somehow or will they just act like the new actor is just the same guy? Will be interesting to say the least.
Body hopping for minds/souls was a thing in the books… That said, my bet would be that they don’t acknowledge it, and just Don Cheadle the situation.
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Post by Alfonsedode on Dec 14, 2021 12:25:08 GMT
I have started watching the show two weeks ago as my wife is watching prime a lot and we both enjoyed GoT. I never heared of the books so i m not disappointed by the adaptation. But it s pretty meeeh and my interest is already dropping... The one main story arc seems really good, characters show they have been carefully built (thx to the books i guess). I m not liking the cast much. Well, feels like Rosamund Pike is more than half the reason i watched after episode 3 or 4. I really digged the red hair boy too, but it s wearing off after 2 episodes. Mat is the other interesting actor imo and he has left ... BUT, 80% of the events/twists along the way are quite shitty and feel they are exchangeable with one another. Also, after 6 episodes (7?), i have still nearly no vision of the world (which could be cool if the rest was up to it), and no connection with most of the main chars. All in all, i love Rosamond and her Char, and i ll keep watching mostly caus i m lazy, but i was hopping a better entertainment with such praised material and amazon production. Still a decent show, and watching one episode a week is a good thing, first time i do that ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/elVHKRxPverbDpfdrrFs.png) . I didnt read the 12 pages here, but feels like most here are dispointed too and i m late to the party ![<_<](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/SFCbZymydaVYoVdRPuOF.png)
I’m not sure whether the show runners are leaning into this more due to the star-draw of Rosamund Pike a very sound move if u ask me ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/RebJidSPcxyF0U0Rr0uW.png)
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Post by dragontartare on Dec 14, 2021 14:28:14 GMT
I didnt read the 12 pages here, but feels like most here are dispointed too and i m late to the party ![<_<](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/SFCbZymydaVYoVdRPuOF.png) That's not the overall impression I'm getting. Most of us have read the books, so we have criticisms of the show, but I think most of us like it well enough. I'm excited for new episodes.
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Post by Alfonsedode on Dec 14, 2021 15:44:25 GMT
I didnt read the 12 pages here, but feels like most here are dispointed too and i m late to the party ![<_<](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/SFCbZymydaVYoVdRPuOF.png) That's not the overall impression I'm getting. Most of us have read the books, so we have criticisms of the show, but I think most of us like it well enough. I'm excited for new episodes. Yes, reading the pages after the first episodes airing show i was under the wrong impression, but still, failed to read really positive feedbacks.
I really liked the white "inquisitors" scenes for example but i wonder WTF is this group and why are they wandering around crossing path twice with the heroes, once not so far from the white tower (while the other was not far from 2 rivers ?).
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Post by dragontartare on Dec 14, 2021 16:12:05 GMT
That's not the overall impression I'm getting. Most of us have read the books, so we have criticisms of the show, but I think most of us like it well enough. I'm excited for new episodes. Yes, reading the pages after the first episodes airing show i was under the wrong impression, but still, failed to read really positive feedbacks. I really liked the white "inquisitors" scenes for example but i wonder WTF is this group and why are they wandering around crossing path twice with the heroes, once not so far from the white tower (while the other was not far from 2 rivers ?).
It could be that we're just biased toward whining since we know how the story "should" go. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KGsHESiZGZU0pPuHuhQr.png) But I've gotten the impression that most of us here are still enjoying the show to varying degrees. I think a lot will depend on what they end up doing with the Two Rivers folks, since the show has been focusing more on Moiraine. And of course, Barney Harris's departure in the middle of filming is going to affect Mat's arc. Whitecloaks are basically a religious group opposed to usage and users of the power. I believe it's canon for them to have a camp not far from Tar Valon.
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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 14, 2021 16:46:36 GMT
That's not the overall impression I'm getting. Most of us have read the books, so we have criticisms of the show, but I think most of us like it well enough. I'm excited for new episodes. Yes, reading the pages after the first episodes airing show i was under the wrong impression, but still, failed to read really positive feedbacks.
I really liked the white "inquisitors" scenes for example but i wonder WTF is this group and why are they wandering around crossing path twice with the heroes, once not so far from the white tower (while the other was not far from 2 rivers ?).
Yea, it's tricky. I got no idea how good the world building is in the series so far since I take a lot of stuff for granted already. But just looking at the Whitecloaks, I can definitely see how you would be pretty confused by that. In the books, they re introduced in a much more slow and detailed manner.
All in all, they cut and changed A LOT and I think most of it is to the detriment of the world building and in favor of driving the plot along. In the first book for example, they don't even go to Tar Valon at all yet. It really primarily focuses on the Emmond's Fielders and their journey with Moiraine, Lan and Loial (whom they meet in a different city). The last two episodes of the show - with all the Aes Sedai politicking - incorporated a mostly plotlines from Book 2 already.
I do think the show does a lot of stuff right (especially on the visual front) but the story telling is all over the place at the moment and that's even if you know the world already. So my impressions of the show so far are ... mixed. I'll give it a more comprehensive review once the last 2 episodes are out, I think.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 14, 2021 19:52:25 GMT
I didnt read the 12 pages here, but feels like most here are dispointed too and i m late to the party ![<_<](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/SFCbZymydaVYoVdRPuOF.png) That's not the overall impression I'm getting. Most of us have read the books, so we have criticisms of the show, but I think most of us like it well enough. I'm excited for new episodes. I'm 'net positive' on the show, despite having some complaints and being largely unimpressed by the most recent episode.
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Post by q5tyhj on Dec 14, 2021 22:43:10 GMT
I hate to be the Debbie Downer once again but... I'm trying to force myself to watch the show, hoping that it gets better as it goes on or that I'll warm up to it as I get used to it, but that's just not happening. Decided to just skip episode 1 and go to episode 2. Barely managed to make it through episode 2 and part of episode 3. But I'm finding the writing to be absolutely terrible. The costumes look nice, but don't make a lot of sense (why are the Children of Light foot soldiers wearing robes instead of armor?). The landscapes look big and epic and beautiful, but it feels like they're overdoing it and trying to compensate for the poor writing/acting/dialogue with pretty scenery. And I hate most of the casting/acting with the possible exceptions of Moiraine and Perrin. Rand already seems like whiny Haiden Christianson v2.0, I'm already dreading how they handle Rand's character arc and development. Ba'alzamon looked cool I guess, so that's something. Otoh... Is anyone else doing a reread thanks to the show? It is making me want to re-read the books. And I did a full series re-read only a couple years ago. So that's a plus, I suppose. I really hope the show gets better because I would LOVE there to be an awesome WoT adaptation, but its got a long way to go, for me at least.
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Post by Alfonsedode on Dec 15, 2021 8:51:56 GMT
Writing is really poor imo too. And I don't include dialogues nor even the scenes themselves individually (most of them are at least ok, some are great). It s more building, choices and articulations.
And what doesn't help is the casting too. Maybe the writing and the directing is also killing the actor's work. I really digged rand's presence at start, but he s quite limited it seems. Rand char and acting could turn out cool in the end, a modern way of being the good boy hero. but I m not very optimistic Perin sucks imo. And the rest is ok or subpar (mat and moraine excluded).
Only my feeling though. The rest is pretty cool : filming, scenery, costumes, supporting cast. Maybe editing is not that good if lead actors are not more convincing, but I blame the writing first.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 15, 2021 20:06:42 GMT
Got season 3 of Titans to watch I'm curious what you'll think about a few characters.
bsn.boards.net/post/1511791/threadCouldn't be bothered making another thread About half way through.
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Post by dragontartare on Dec 17, 2021 1:39:12 GMT
Well I feel dumb. I assumed new episodes came out at midnight local time, but they come out at midnight GMT. Which means I could have been watching on Thursday nights all along ![:rollseyes:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qwaBZUJKbWwfwMecldPP.gif) Episode 7 thought dump: I love the open with Rand's mother. I didn't appreciate the Red Wedding flashback there with the almost belly stab though Maybe I only think this because we know Barney Harris left abruptly, but the reactions to Mat not joining them in the Ways definitely felt tacked-on. I don't blame them for this, considering filming schedules disrupted by covid and the fact that they probably had to rewrite and reshoot part of the Ways, it's just awkward and a bad situation all around. It will be interesting to see how they change Mat's story next season to account for his absence here. Loved Perrin being able to spot the guiding stone before everyone else. Laughed at Rand's remark about Loial requiring patience. Padan Fain! I missed the other sightings in previous episoes, so I'm glad I at least spotted him this time ![:rollseyes:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qwaBZUJKbWwfwMecldPP.gif) I liked seeing Nynaeve break through her block again with the help of epic rage. The whole group looked suitably haunted by what machin shin told them. Moiraine shutting people up is always fun ![:hue:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/VuVKpoHxDVuyzvjooMiD.png) Even the way Padan Fain walks creeps me out. Um...Moiraine sending the Reds against Mat is NOT a change I approve of. Not that they'll be able to do any more to Mat than to any other man, but it seems out of character for Moiraine. I know she's concerned about the darkness in him, but if, at this point, she still thinks he could be the Dragon, why does she want to risk him being gentled? Or is she pretty sure at this point that it isn't him? I assume they will use this somehow to get Mat to where he needs to be for season 2, so maybe I should just be patient. I don't remember what he does in The Great Hunt. I'm also really not a fan of the hidden love triangle. What the actual fuck. I don't know if I dislike the change itself, or if I don't like it because I just hate love triangles all the time anyway. Love triangles are categorically stupid and sucky. (And later revealed to be a fake love triangle, I guess, so why put it there at all? Do some people like love triangles? They suck. Please stop liking them.) I do like the little scene between Moiraine and Lan afterwards, though. I also like most of the scene with Nynaeve, until they suddenly decided to progress their relationship. I'm still trying to figure out why this bothers me, though. I didn't mind Rand and Egwene having a more adult relationship, so it isn't the "sexing up" of things that bugs me. Maybe it's just...they were a slow burn relationship in the books and it caused some tension at book spoilery moments, and now we won't get the slow burn. I dunno. But the ending though...I actually really like how Rand figured out it was him, interspersed with the flashback and the rest of the vision. I like that he went to Moiraine on his own to tell her and to spare his friends, despite clearly being terrified. I like that she chose to just take Rand with her and spare Lan. If the rest of the episode had been more like that part -- or even if they had replaced some of the relationship silliness with more development for Rand, so he wouldn't reach his conclusion quite so abruptly -- this episode would have been amazing. As it is, the pacing is off. I liked a lot about this episode, but the middle section...bleh. A waste of time and a pacing nightmare. Still hyped for episode 8 if it takes up with Rand and Moiraine. Let's see those two develop some sort of relationship, please. I'm more optimistic about Min now than I was when we just had a photo, as well, so that's a positive for this episode.
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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 17, 2021 4:31:13 GMT
New turning of the wheel indeed. This has nothing to do with the books anymore now. Some major differences to the books that really jumped out at me from Ep7. Unfortunately, I think all of them are making the story worse. - Lan got the most thorough character assassination this week IMO. He really should have pushed Nynaeve away like he does in the books because (paraphrasing from the books) "he has to offer nothing as a wedding gift other than a widow's veil". The whole Nynaeve and Lan story in the books is such a beautiful tormented love story. Here it turns into what looks right now like a cheap one night stand. What a massive disappointment and waste of potential.
- Just on a side note (and the fact that this is just a side note shows how bad the toher stuff is), Lan saying he hates his title as Dai Shan (rather than feeling conflicted and somewhat obligated about it) kinda prevents the whole story arc about some borderlanders trying to use him for their own ambitions by flying the Golden Crane again. Another instance of potential wasted.
- Next one on the list: Rand. He is going to Moiraine explaining to her that he is the Dragon Reborn. WTF?!? In the books he doesn't accept it even after Moiraine and Siuan tell him that it's him in Book 2. This was unnecessary here as well. It would have been more than enough if he realized that he could channel. That should have weirded him out more than enough. Also, him and Moiraine hoping to cross the Blight and make it to the Eye of the World, just the two of them without at the very least Lan to protect them would have been a ridiculous notion in the books. And why does Rand just accept the thing he should be super afraid of so quickly anyway, just because he talked to Min, whom he doesn't know at all at that point?
- Next: Perrin. What's up with this suggestion that he secretly desired Egwene? Where did that come from?
- Lord Agelmar also seemed way too hostile toward an Aes Sedai.
- Where did Loial vanish to after they left the ways? We don't see him at all anymore.
- Moiraine sending the Reds after Mat is ... interesting at least. I'll hold judgement until we see what comes of it (maybe in season 2). I sure hope she's playing some double game there, otherwise, all the Emmond's Fielders should really just dump her and everything she stands for as soon as that one comes out. Laughed at Rand's remark about Loial requiring patience.
It was a good line but as soon as he said it, my first thought was, that that was clearly Mat's line in the original script and they just gave it to Rand. I thought that was very obvious in this instance. There was a little good stuff, too, mostly visual again (the opening scene was very badass and I liked their depiction of Machin Shin) but all in all, this was fairly horrible. I mean, I am really trying to keep an open mind here and embrace the changes rather than getting upset at them but this time, they make the story so much worse, they are starting to piss me off. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/BBCpsoiIHmyzmblpikow.png)
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Post by dragontartare on Dec 17, 2021 6:08:11 GMT
New turning of the wheel indeed. This has nothing to do with the books anymore now. Some major differences to the books that really jumped out at me from Ep7. Unfortunately, I think all of them are making the story worse. - Lan got the most thorough character assassination this week IMO. He really should have pushed Nynaeve away like he does in the books because (paraphrasing from the books) "he has to offer as a wedding gift other than a widows veil". The whole Nynaeve and Lan story in the books is such a beautiful tormented love story. Here it turns into what looks right now like a cheap one night stand. What a massive disappointment and waste of potential.
- Just on a side note (and the fact that this is just a side note shows how bad the toher stuff is), Lan saying he hates his title as Dai Shan (rather than feeling conflicted and somewhat obligated about it) kinda prevents the whole story arc about some borderlanders trying to use him for their own ambitions by flying the Golden Crane again. Another instance of potential wasted.
- Next one on the list: Rand. He is going to Moiraine explaining to her that he is the Dragon Reborn. WTF?!? In the books he doesn't accept it even after Moiraine and Siuan tell him that it's him in Book 2. This was unnecessary here as well. It would have been more than enough if he realized that he could channel. That should have weirded him out more than enough. Also, him and Moiraine hoping to cross the Blight and make it to the Eye of the World, just the two of them without at the very least Lan to protect them would have been a ridiculous notion in the books. And why does Rand just accept the thing he should be super afraid of so quickly anyway, just because he talked to Min, whom he doesn't know at all at that point?
- Next: Perrin. What's up with this suggestion that he secretly desired Egwene? Where did that come from?
- Lord Agelmar also seemed way too hostile toward an Aes Sedai.
- Where did Loial vanish to after they left the ways? We don't see him at all anymore.
- Moiraine sending the Reds after Mat is ... interesting at least. I'll hold judgement until we see what comes of it (maybe in season 2). I sure hope she's playing some double game there, otherwise, all the Emmond's Fielders should really just dump her and everything she stands for as soon as that one comes out. Laughed at Rand's remark about Loial requiring patience.
It was a good line but as soon as he said it, my first thought was, that that was clearly Mat's line in the original script and they just gave it to Rand. I thought that was very obvious in this instance. There was a little good stuff, too, mostly visual again (the opening scene was very badass and I liked their depiction of Machin Shin) but all in all, this was fairly horrible. I mean, I am really trying to keep an open mind here and embrace the changes rather than getting upset at them but this time, they make the story so much worse, they are starting to piss me off. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/BBCpsoiIHmyzmblpikow.png) I was reading r/wot, and some people were discussing a basis for the not-quite love triangle in the books. There is a scene where a character (I forget who) asks Perrin about him and Egwene, and Perrin kind of awkwardly implies that he likes her, but would never do anything about it because of Rand. They were suggesting on the subreddit that the show was playing up Perrin's line in that book scene in order to help show the effect machin shin had on everyone, making them doubt each other and their relationships. I still hate it, but I guess it didn't come from nowhere.
Rand and Moiraine going off alone works for me in this turning of the wheel. They both just had machin shin taunt them, Moiraine specifically about her getting people needlessly killed, and Rand not wanting to watch anyone else die.
Same for Rand realizing he's the Dragon. He is driven by his need to protect his friends, and believe if he ignores the signs pointing to who he is, then his friends will go to their needless deaths, and it will be his fault. There is still plenty of time for Rand to struggle to really accept the full implications of being the Dragon Reborn. All he has really accepted for now is that he needs to do this thing with Moiraine in order to save his friends.
Shortcutting some of his doubt will help them compress the story as well, maybe get us to the Stone of Tear and the Aiel Waste a little faster.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 6:37:21 GMT
Ep 7 + Books Fun intro, Rand's mom kicks butt in a fully expected but thankfully (reasonably) well done scene. I really appreciated Moiraine when she exits the Ways. She composes herself quickly and the first thing she does is turn around and say, "well done." Even just recognizing that the people around you did a great job (and they did) when you could be in your own turmoil is one hell of an act of perspective and will. I'm really glad dragontartare linked that blurb about Mat's exit cause I'd be really wondering what in the Jiminy Cricket fuck was going on at this point in regards to him. Faldarra(sp?), I pictured something a bit different in the books but it looks alright... It looks much better after seeing it at night. Min's visions were well executed visually. I really thought Min was pouring that drink for Moiraine. There's the Emond's Fielders we were waiting for. That was some good open airing of old dirty laundry around the table. We even get the signature braid-pull.
Right when Perrin is saying "What if none of us are the Dragon?" they frame the shot interestingly. *Maybe it's a stretch but given what book readers know, I don't think it's too far reaching. Rand in the foreground, the others all smaller and in general motioning/gravitating towards him. *Not a stretch at all apparently, given the reveal. Snagged a screenshot. "I waited in my room for an hour for you to come apologize." Wow. Haven't felt that particular flavour of distaste in a decade. Egwene-loathing. Rand's quip back was pretty solid though, very on point. Good on the showrunner/writing team for creating such a gut-reaction in me with one line.
Rand being the one to channel rather than Egwene was a good fake-out IMHO. Definitely got me. *** Something I noticed a bit back but forgot to mention. I liked the Travel-Moiraine and the Tower-Moiraine appearances. In the first few eps she looks very worn, hair frayed, little makeup. Then turning into the Noble. She's kind of halfway in this ep, which makes good sense too. *** Maybe I only think this because we know Barney Harris left abruptly, but the reactions to Mat not joining them in the Ways definitely felt tacked-on. I don't blame them for this, considering filming schedules disrupted by covid and the fact that they probably had to rewrite and reshoot part of the Ways, it's just awkward and a bad situation all around. It will be interesting to see how they change Mat's story next season to account for his absence here. They have some fancy footwork to do. Loved Perrin being able to spot the guiding stone before everyone else. Laughed at Rand's remark about Loial requiring patience. The nod to Perrin's eyesight was good but I'm starting to see a pattern in his plot. "If he's asking for patience, then we're gonna die." Well timed, and truthful enough to be funny in a worrying way. Um...Moiraine sending the Reds against Mat is NOT a change I approve of. I agree, with a caveat. This is some of the "I'm throwing you a bone 'cause you got screwed over with casting." That line never would've been needed if that didn't happen. (I'm assuming.) So I'm hoping it's something that seems out of character but is necessary for other things to make sense with the switch-over. It's not a free pass but it is a... hall pass sort of. They can get to point B if they need to but by then it needs to make sense. (Ie. Sending the Reds after him is actually a ploy against the Reds.) I'm also really not a fan of the hidden love triangle. What the actual fuck. I don't know if I dislike the change itself, or if I don't like it because I just hate love triangles all the time anyway. Love triangles are categorically stupid and sucky. (And later revealed to be a fake love triangle, I guess, so why put it there at all? Do some people like love triangles? They suck. Please stop liking them.) I agree entirely. I both detest love-triangles, and that direction for Perrin. It's a problem I'm starting to see with him. He's being fit into the narrative rather than having his own. He's stuck in the monkey-sphere of everyone else. It means his plots that are being made up likely won't grow into anything meaningful. The formula I'm seeing him fit into means he'll always fit in the framework that the other characters and time limitations permit, rather than growing organically. He has his wolf arc that is his alone, that's his primary arc and growth right now. I just don't see where a love triangle with Egwene pushes anything forward. Is fluff. Now, I'll say that when Machin Shin was whispering to him I was intrigued by who they meant. Thought I might've forgot something in an earlier episode or the books or something. Him wanting someone other than his wife, and being somewhat directly responsible for her death, all makes for a compelling tale. I liked it. It added some salt to a wound that already stung. By itself, great idea. Making that someone EGWENE undid everything I just said. Of course it was Egwene, cause who else could it be? Basically, I just really hope his B plots don't always wind up being the runt of the litter, or tacked on, as it were. That is what I am seeing though. I didn't mind Rand and Egwene having a more adult relationship, so it isn't the "sexing up" of things that bugs me. Maybe it's just...they were a slow burn relationship in the books and it caused some tension at book spoilery moments, and now we won't get the slow burn. I dunno. Don't got much on this one, I do see what you mean though. Abrupt when they seemed to be teeing it up for a longer run. It made me pause for a sec and go "oh, kay, that happened." But the ending though...I actually really like how Rand figured out it was him, interspersed with the flashback and the rest of the vision. Yes. I like that he went to Moiraine on his own to tell her and to spare his friends, despite clearly being terrified Yes again. Both him and Moiraine did some small private but heroic acts. (Him telling her and Moiraine saying "well done" after the Ways.) I like that she chose to just take Rand with her and spare Lan. Now with even more yes! A mistake born of caring, and foreshadowed earlier a bit. If the rest of the episode had been more like that part -- or even if they had replaced some of the relationship silliness with more development for Rand, so he wouldn't reach his conclusion quite so abruptly -- this episode would have been amazing. As it is, the pacing is off. Yes, overall I liked it though. I liked a lot about this episode, but the middle section...bleh. A waste of time and a pacing nightmare. Still hyped for episode 8 if it takes up with Rand and Moiraine. Let's see those two develop some sort of relationship, please. I'm more optimistic about Min now than I was when we just had a photo, as well, so that's a positive for this episode. Overall I liked it, more than 2-3/5 I'd say. Gave the Fielders the spotlight. Pacing aside that is. But pacing seems to be the struggle. (A struggle I give a bit of leeway to given the... er, prolific nature of the adaptation.) *** New turning of the wheel indeed. Very much so, I'm kind of running with it. It's not a 1-1, the characters aren't the same ones. Lan got the most thorough character assassination this week IMO. He really should have pushed Nynaeve away like he does in the books because (paraphrasing from the books) "he has to offer as a wedding gift other than a widows veil". The whole Nynaeve and Lan story in the books is such a beautiful tormented love story. Here it turns into what looks right now like a cheap one night stand. What a massive disappointment and waste of potential. I agree and disagree. Disagree, I didn't see a one-night stand. She "tracked" him, invited herself into his space. She then opened his door and made a pass. Once the night is over, she, from her perspective, is the one to blame. I say "blame" because of the shame and uncertainty she seemingly (and naturally) feels afterwards. So she makes an exit, not out of a desire for a one-nighter, but because she feels responsible for the whole thing. She's almost, absolving Lan of the night. Giving him an out. Which he then chooses not to take. It's the next step in their relationship. I'm really digging it in the show actually. (Also liked their relationship in the books.) *** Agree, you're absolutely right about the ring and how that impacts Lan's actions. Rather how it didn't in this iteration of him. I imagine we'll see that conflict in later seasons but it could've been foreshadowed then. Laughed at Rand's remark about Loial requiring patience. It was a good line but as soon as he said it, my first thought was, that that was clearly Mat's line in the original script and they just gave it to Rand. I thought that was very obvious in this instance. Ditto the Cauthon line. Immediately thought the same thing. I liked it, but I saw Rand's mouth moving and Mat's words coming out. (Still got a quiet chuckle.)
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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 17, 2021 13:57:28 GMT
@fuckit RE: Lan and Nynaeve: Ok, yes I agree, one-night stand might have been the wrong way to put it. It actually more reminded me of typical BioWare romances. They like each other, that's kinda built up and everything, they know they have to do the tough thing the next day and may very well die, so they go (excuse the double pun) "fuck it" and sleep together.
For Nynaeve, that's maybe not even that bad, she really wanted to be with Lan from book 1. That's fine.
The problem really is with Lan. Especially because he sleeps with her first, and only AFTER that he discloses his backstory to her. Then he says he hates it when he is called Dai Shan and you get the impression that he doesn't really care that much about his heritage and just wants to live his life. Book Lan is way more fatalistic but also more invested into his duty to fight the Dark One. That's why he pushes Nynaeve away for quite some time. He is convinced that his life will be spent fighting in the Blight until he dies an early death before he meets Moiraine. Once he meets her, he can justify leaving the Blight for her quest but for her quest alone. He knows, he will either die for Moiraine or return to die in the Blight soon after her death, should that come first.
So in the (early) books, while he does fall in love with Nynaeve, he doesn't think he can act on his feelings because he will never be able to leave his life's path as he sees it. Sleeping with Nynaeve, let alone doing it BEFORE telling her what she'd be getting into would be absolutely unthinkable for book-Lan and I don't like it in show-Lan either. Makes him look ... somewhat whimsical.
The fact that the characters and events are a little different in the show is fine with me, but when they basically turn a character around 180 degrees, that's when I start having a problem.
BTW, in general, there is way too much casual sex in this show (Rand and Egwene are in this category as well). While the books were downright prudish at times and I am ok with relaxing that a little, they lean too much into the "fantasy show needs characters having sex" thing that has been brought in by GoT.
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Post by dragontartare on Dec 17, 2021 16:16:11 GMT
@fuckit RE: Lan and Nynaeve: Ok, yes I agree, one-night stand might have been the wrong way to put it. It actually more reminded me of typical BioWare romances. They like each other, that's kinda built up and everything, they know they have to do the tough thing the next day and may very well die, so (excuse the double pun) fuck it and sleep together.
For Nynaeve, that's maybe not even that bad, she really wanted to be with Lan from book 1. That's fine.
The problem really is with Lan. Especially because he sleeps with her first, and only AFTER that he discloses his backstory to her. Then he says he hates it when he is called Dai Shan and you get the impression that he doesn't really care that much about his heritage and just wants to live his life. Book Lan is way more fatalistic but also more invested into his duty to fight the Dark One. That's why he pushes Nynaeve away for quite some time. He is convinced that his life will be spent fighting in the Blight until he dies an early death before he meets Moiraine. Once he meets her, he can justify leaving the Blight for her quest but for her quest alone. He knows, he will either die for Moiraine soon after her death, should that come first.
So in the (early) books, while he does fall in love with Nynaeve, he doesn't think he can act on his feelings because he will never be able to leave his life's path as he sees it. Sleeping with Nynaeve BEFORE telling her what she'd be getting into would be absolutely unthinkable for book-Lan and I don't like it in show-Lan either.
The fact that the characters and events are a little different is fine with me, but when they basically turn a character around 180 degrees, that's when I start having a problem.
BTW, in general, there is way too much casual sex in this show (Rand and Egwene are in this category as well). While the books were downright prudish at times and I am ok with relaxing that a little, they lean too much into the "fantasy show needs characters having sex" thing that has been brought in by GoT. I think calling this character assassination or a 180 is too strong (for me, I mean), but I do agree with the general thoughts you have expressed here. Maybe that's why the scene bothered me.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Dec 17, 2021 20:37:19 GMT
My thoughts on episode 7: Forgive me, I need to start with the thing that upset me the most: Lan and Nynaeve. What the hell was that?! This was one of the worst rushed romances I've ever seen. TERRIBLE. I can't believe either of them would hook up this soon and in this fashion. I don't know their book versions but Nynaeve seems like a really reserved insecure and inexperienced person. Look at her conservative boring clothes. I can't believe she went after Lan like this without batting an eye. That's what you do when you have more experience. That was so jarring. And while I still love Lan, I can't believe he didn't push her away. So he had a little chat with Moiraine (loved the scene! can't stop shipping them, ugh), she gives her blessing and he just let's himself get seduced?! They haven't travelled nearly long enough and on screen they've barely spoken! You need to have believable progression!
Good grief was that bad... You know, I thought I could maybe grow to like that romance because from what I gather it was slow burn and kinda tragic in the novels. Like, she thought she can't have him because he's so dedicated to Moiraine. Possibly mistaking his devotion as something romantic. I love slow burn romances. I like complicated love stories. ... not whatever the hell they turned this into on the show!
Well, on the plus side, Lan's actor has a very nice body...
I also HATE love triangles. I know what purpose they usually serve. And because they always follow the same pattern they are really boring and utterly predicable love obstacles. I don't believe the Rand/Egwene/Perrin thing is really a love triangle. Not yet. I hope they drop this shit. I don't care about it. Felt like watching some teen show tonight. Not thrilled.
Rand's mother fighting off extremely bad assailants minutes before giving birth was the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a while. Does that happen like that in the novel??
The Ways look exactly like the platforming parts of DAI and Andromeda, same hexagon floor pattern. Very videogame-y, lol. Not a fan...
Let's see, positive things about the episode... Ummm, I guess it's nice that the kids are no longer sidelined? I still don't care about them, of course. And Egwene is really annoying. OK, stop. Positive things! Oh, I liked Lan having dinner with those people and being sweet with the little girl. Yeah, that's about it, lol.
This show seems dead set on making me miserable on a personal level. *g* I'll keep watching but this has turned into a some kind of let's-see-how-much-more-painful-this-can-get thing. I'm not really a masochist. But this might be getting close... Well, I keep hearing Witcher S2 is amazing. Going to check it out now. Something GOOD for a change would be nice!
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Post by dragontartare on Dec 17, 2021 22:28:18 GMT
Rand's mother fighting off extremely bad assailants minutes before giving birth was the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a while. Does that happen like that in the novel?? She goes into battle about to give birth, yes, and gives birth to Rand right there. She's a badass, and I will hear no more trash talk about her ![:pissedoff:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/OkMtVzdPIcKfMXZtylfj.png) If you stick with the show, I don't think you're going to like the Aiel, given that you hated this opening so much.
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