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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Oct 8, 2023 20:58:13 GMT
Something else - more for book readers, I guess - that I noticed at the time, but have been thinking about more. Me too! Had a random thought last night... We've had DamanA, but what DamanB, or DamanC? Good call remembering she lists em off. It does make sense that he'd either reduce their number to a manageable screen-presence, or stagger them.
Now I'm wondering how many times this wheel will spin now. Do you know offhand if there was a planned season count? I never heard of one but if things condense I could see him abbreviating it to 5 seasons, but 7 seems like a better, slightly more plausible, option.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 8, 2023 21:48:28 GMT
Something else - more for book readers, I guess - that I noticed at the time, but have been thinking about more. Me too! Had a random thought last night... We've had DamanA, but what DamanB, or DamanC? I haven't heard of a 'planned season count' either, but S2 ended with Bk2, so they're aren't streaking ahead. At least, not yet. If I had to make an educated guess, I would say that Bk3, 4 & 5 will each get their own season - more or less. 6-7 could be one, as could 8-9 (with an absolute banger of a finale). 10 could be one episode, and after that it becomes purely speculative. We don't know what they will have changed from the books by that point. Ideally 11 and 12 would be one season, then a season each for 13 & 14, but that might be overkill depending on what they cut/keep/change.
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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Oct 8, 2023 21:57:29 GMT
I would say that Bk3, 4 & 5 will each get their own season - more or less. 6-7 could be one, as could 8-9 (with an absolute banger of a finale). 10 could be one episode, Fuck, 9 brought me back into the series in a huge way. Finally some MFing resolution! 10 was a such a letdown after that.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 8, 2023 22:11:02 GMT
I would say that Bk3, 4 & 5 will each get their own season - more or less. 6-7 could be one, as could 8-9 (with an absolute banger of a finale). 10 could be one episode, Fuck, 9 brought me back into the series in a huge way. Finally some MFing resolution! 10 was a such a letdown after that. Yeah, I know what you mean. It wasn't so much that it was 'bad', as in - badly written. It was just boring.
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Post by skekSil on Oct 8, 2023 23:57:27 GMT
Damnit errbear ate my reply. Renna, I think she's still alive cause A) Renna dies=Egwene dies right? B.) I thought she passed out but didn't kick the bucket yet.
I could be wrong though, which honestly would make things significantly more interesting. Well, as interesting as Egwene can be. A bit later Isamael accuses Rand of making Egwane a killer.
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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Oct 9, 2023 0:14:20 GMT
Damnit errbear ate my reply. Renna, I think she's still alive cause A) Renna dies=Egwene dies right? B.) I thought she passed out but didn't kick the bucket yet.
I could be wrong though, which honestly would make things significantly more interesting. Well, as interesting as Egwene can be. A bit later Isamael accuses Rand of making Egwane a killer. Most reliable source of information ever.
(I do get what you're saying though.)
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Post by Alfonsedode on Oct 10, 2023 8:22:39 GMT
season end was great, just felt the Falme situation with the invader was not used to make great stuff with the Turok vs chaneller boss girl (the one Ishy is helping) and resolution was rushed (too much time lost in ep 1 - 3) imo. Nice sequence with indy vibes And also, Nynaeve story back to sucking a lot, she s really ridiculous in that last episode, poor writing again if you ask me I bought the first book, i ll try that soon
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Post by Alfonsedode on Oct 10, 2023 9:00:01 GMT
A bit later Isamael accuses Rand of making Egwane a killer. Most reliable source of information ever.
(I do get what you're saying though.)
i think Egwene waits for the bonds to be "released" and then kills the gal but maybe i havent pay attention enough
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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Oct 10, 2023 18:07:59 GMT
I think the internet agrees with you all...
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Post by skekSil on Oct 11, 2023 16:10:01 GMT
I think the internet agrees with you all... Isn't that Scotty on the floor? He was quite alive in TNG. Addendum: I've found this episode, its 'The Changeling', s02ep03 and this is indeed Scotty who is indeed quite dead. He gets better in a couple of minutes.
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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Oct 11, 2023 16:42:48 GMT
I think the internet agrees with you all... Isn't that Scotty on the floor? He was quite alive in TNG. Dunno, looks like it. That was a good ep of TNG IIRC. Dyson Sphere n'engineers.
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Post by dragontartare on Oct 21, 2023 7:13:39 GMT
I finally got to finish the season There was one thing I really didn't like, so I'm going to get it out of the way: Opposite-land Siuan. Wasn't Siuan on board with Moiraine's plan in the books? I don't remember her actually thinking she could shield Rand using a single Aes Sedai and then just...store him in the basement until she was ready for him. I don't think any of you mentioned this in your comments, so am I alone in thinking that this move seems out of character for Siuan? But otherwise, I loved this season. I think production quality went way up, and even most of the changes made sense for a condensed TV version of the story. S2E5-8 + Book Spoilers: Where do they find these absolutely perfect actors to play the villains?? Not just Lanfear and Liandrin, but Suroth! And Renna! I had to look away when she patted Egwene on the head, even though I knew that was probably coming. It was so satisfying seeing Egwene kill her. (And yes, she's definitely dead.) And that tease from Moghedien at the end?? Creepy AF. I can't wait to see more from her next season. With such a cast of villains, I might not even mind if they leave out my favorite Forsaken (Asmodean). I just loved the scene with Moiraine and Lan on the beach after Lanfear tossed them out of the Waygate. I always loved their relationship in the books, and I was so disappointed when (major book spoilers for the end of the series): after Moiraine gets rescued from the Finns, she and Lan never really even acknowledge each other again, at least not that we get to read about. I think they had a conversation/screaming match off-screen somewhere if I remember correctly, but as a reader, I felt like I got no closure at all to the end of their relationship. Just...decades of friendship, gone, like it never existed or mattered.
I like this reunion so much better. Donal Finn has made me actually like Mat! I know, I know, bring out the pitchforks. I'm not a Mat fan. But I am now I think being a hero of the horn is a perfect alternative story for him, and probably further evidence (in addition to the changes to Moiraine's story) that we won't be seeing the Finns in the show. But they've got to make cuts, and the Finns are probably amongst the easiest side plots to cut out anyway. Rand being a badass. Turok taunting him about being a blademaster, and instead of showing us some slick moves with his blade, he just wordlessly channels and kills them all on the spot. Then, instead of giving us some big explosion of saidin to kill Ishamael, he just casually sinks a blade into his chest. This is why you've always been my favorite, Rand. And we got a little tease about travelling, or at least book readers did, so I'm guessing we'll get a proper reveal next season. Maybe even Rand figuring out skimming on his own. I do think that Rand being able to cut the knot on Moiraine's shield might have displayed too fine of control of saidin for this early in his journey, and I think this would have worked better for me if the pacing were a little slower. Have Lan reveal it, then have Rand try a few times (over several days in-universe, at the least) to cut the knot, but stopping because he can't control the power well enough to cut just the knot. But that would have pushed the knot-cutting into season 3, since Lan gave us his theory so late into the season, and I'm probably just being picky here anyway. Well, I'm off to watch some WoT-Up episode breakdowns to see what other details I probably missed out on. I really need to binge the whole season again soon
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 21, 2023 21:25:48 GMT
I finally got to finish the season There was one thing I really didn't like, so I'm going to get it out of the way: Opposite-land Siuan. Wasn't Siuan on board with Moiraine's plan in the books? I don't remember her actually thinking she could shield Rand using a single Aes Sedai and then just...store him in the basement until she was ready for him. I don't think any of you mentioned this in your comments, so am I alone in thinking that this move seems out of character for Siuan? But otherwise, I loved this season. I think production quality went way up, and even most of the changes made sense for a condensed TV version of the story. S2E5-8 + Book Spoilers: Where do they find these absolutely perfect actors to play the villains?? Not just Lanfear and Liandrin, but Suroth! And Renna! I had to look away when she patted Egwene on the head, even though I knew that was probably coming. It was so satisfying seeing Egwene kill her. (And yes, she's definitely dead.) And that tease from Moghedien at the end?? Creepy AF. I can't wait to see more from her next season. With such a cast of villains, I might not even mind if they leave out my favorite Forsaken (Asmodean). I just loved the scene with Moiraine and Lan on the beach after Lanfear tossed them out of the Waygate. I always loved their relationship in the books, and I was so disappointed when (major book spoilers for the end of the series): after Moiraine gets rescued from the Finns, she and Lan never really even acknowledge each other again, at least not that we get to read about. I think they had a conversation/screaming match off-screen somewhere if I remember correctly, but as a reader, I felt like I got no closure at all to the end of their relationship. Just...decades of friendship, gone, like it never existed or mattered.
I like this reunion so much better. Donal Finn has made me actually like Mat! I know, I know, bring out the pitchforks. I'm not a Mat fan. But I am now I think being a hero of the horn is a perfect alternative story for him, and probably further evidence (in addition to the changes to Moiraine's story) that we won't be seeing the Finns in the show. But they've got to make cuts, and the Finns are probably amongst the easiest side plots to cut out anyway. Rand being a badass. Turok taunting him about being a blademaster, and instead of showing us some slick moves with his blade, he just wordlessly channels and kills them all on the spot. Then, instead of giving us some big explosion of saidin to kill Ishamael, he just casually sinks a blade into his chest. This is why you've always been my favorite, Rand. And we got a little tease about travelling, or at least book readers did, so I'm guessing we'll get a proper reveal next season. Maybe even Rand figuring out skimming on his own. I do think that Rand being able to cut the knot on Moiraine's shield might have displayed too fine of control of saidin for this early in his journey, and I think this would have worked better for me if the pacing were a little slower. Have Lan reveal it, then have Rand try a few times (over several days in-universe, at the least) to cut the knot, but stopping because he can't control the power well enough to cut just the knot. But that would have pushed the knot-cutting into season 3, since Lan gave us his theory so late into the season, and I'm probably just being picky here anyway. Well, I'm off to watch some WoT-Up episode breakdowns to see what other details I probably missed out on. I really need to binge the whole season again soon Siuan From memory, yes, she was on board. The banning of Moiraine from the Tower was part of the act to excuse why she was away so much. The other stuff, around shielding of Rand etc, I think was all on the show?? The rest Lanfear and Renna were superbly cast.
Your favourite Forsaken is…Asmodean? I…banned!!
Seriously though, if they don’t have him, I guess they’d be leaning on Loghain to train Rand? But how would he know the ancient weaves that the Dragon Reborn will need to know? Unless LTT’s voice is going to appear and actually be of use?
S2 was a huge improvement on S1, in basically every respect.
Aviendha is my favourite of the new characters, just edging Lanfear, and only just.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 21, 2023 21:52:38 GMT
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Post by dragontartare on Oct 21, 2023 22:53:10 GMT
Yeah, a friend said he'd been on an interview a while back trashing the season. This quote from him doesn't even make sense: "[Rosamund Pike] is great, by the way…but I fought pretty hard against the Moiraine not having her powers thing. I just don’t think it worked, and maybe again it’s just me looking forward, but…if we’re having people lose their powers and get them back just for the convenience of like a few episodes it really detracts from the idea of losing powers, getting powers back. I don’t think we needed it. I tried on that one." My response: She didn't lose her powers, she was shielded, which was clear (or should have been clear to book readers paying attention) from the moment Ishy tied his knot back in season 1. I do think the characters' realization of what happened was rushed and the significance of being able to tie off weaves might have been lost on non-readers, but I don't think it will detract from the impact of characters actually losing their powers, once we get to see more of that later on. Then this quote: "I don’t really like it. It’s a cool shot... [But Rand] taught by the best swordsman in the world. In the books, he gets taught to be a blademaster by the best swordsman ever," He got a few months of training, my dude. That's it. He shouldn't be able to beat actual blademasters. I do hope we get to see some sword fighting from him eventually, but this didn't bother me at all. The rest of his quotes in the article are not supported at all within the actual article so they are hard to respond to, though maybe he supports them in the full video (podcast?). In season 1, Sanderson seemed to be mostly positive about what the show was doing. Same with Daniel Greene. Then angry book fans started calling them Amazon shills, and they changed their tune. It makes it hard to know what their real opinions are. But I care about my own opinion far more than Brandon Sanderson's, in any case.
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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Oct 21, 2023 23:23:42 GMT
Yeah, a friend said he'd been on an interview a while back trashing the season. This quote from him doesn't even make sense: "[Rosamund Pike] is great, by the way…but I fought pretty hard against the Moiraine not having her powers thing. I just don’t think it worked, and maybe again it’s just me looking forward, but…if we’re having people lose their powers and get them back just for the convenience of like a few episodes it really detracts from the idea of losing powers, getting powers back. I don’t think we needed it. I tried on that one." My response: She didn't lose her powers, she was shielded, which was clear (or should have been clear to book readers paying attention) from the moment Ishy tied his knot back in season 1. I do think the characters' realization of what happened was rushed and the significance of being able to tie off weaves might have been lost on non-readers, but I don't think it will detract from the impact of characters actually losing their powers, once we get to see more of that later on. Then this quote: "I don’t really like it. It’s a cool shot... [But Rand] taught by the best swordsman in the world. In the books, he gets taught to be a blademaster by the best swordsman ever," He got a few months of training, my dude. That's it. He shouldn't be able to beat actual blademasters. I do hope we get to see some sword fighting from him eventually, but this didn't bother me at all. /agree
I think Moiraine getting shielded worked, kinda odd to think it'd detract from later experiences when men have already been stilled lol. This isn't the first iteration, it just happened to be her.
Turok's scene was great and I had the same thoughts when I read the article. He wasn't going to do shit to Turok with a sword. It was a melding of book flair and show brevity. Rand's ability with a sword has only really been alluded to so far, we haven't got the "training montage" quite yet.
I think the show would be better if they hewed to Sanderson's suggestions but these examples are... not good examples of what needs changing.
Now get back to finishing Stormlight.
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 29, 2023 19:02:09 GMT
Finally got around to watching the last two episodes of season 2. I think they are stronger then the rest of the season but still, overall, the season felt very weird and somehow not very coherent. Too many odd cuts, loosing one strand of story telling, going to another then picking up the first again but alter or whatever. I don't know, the writing and editing didn't quite do it for me. That said, visually, a lot of it was a blast. In the last episode, I was particularly blown away (oh yes, pun very much intended ) by one scene: When Mat blows the Horn of Valier and all the heroes show up. That could easily have been messed up but they did well there and it looked cool. I would have like to already see a little more of Brigita Silverbow (we only get a few glimpses) but she'll be around a lot later, so that's fine. All in all, a very cool scene. I also really like Avienda and the other Far Dareis Mai. They look pretty much exactly like I imagined them from the books and are very badass. So yeah, visually, it's a hoot. Writing and cutting are not that great. Overall a 7/10 A'dams for me.
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 30, 2023 6:49:57 GMT
I think he has good points on all counts. "[Rosamund Pike] is great, by the way…but I fought pretty hard against the Moiraine not having her powers thing. I just don’t think it worked, and maybe again it’s just me looking forward, but…if we’re having people lose their powers and get them back just for the convenience of like a few episodes it really detracts from the idea of losing powers, getting powers back. I don’t think we needed it. I tried on that one."
I thought the exact same thing. The big arc about loosing power and how it affects you and how you have to come to terms with it is Siuan's and Leane's arc. I don't really see how they can leave that out of the show entirely and if they don't, this little interlude with Moiraine is at best entirely redundant, at worst, it will make the "real" arc feel like a repetition.
"I don’t really like it. It’s a cool shot... [But Rand] taught by the best swordsman in the world. In the books, he gets taught to be a blademaster by the best swordsman ever," said Sanderson. He went on to add, "The show is doing a lot of things fantastically, and it’s really good at scenes. But one of the things I keep arguing for is, ‘What are the arcs’? What is the theme? And arc and theme seems to fall by the wayside for cool scenes quite a bit, and that worries me. Particularly going into book four, where its the strongest Wheel of Time book and that’s partially because of themes of self-sacrifice and things like this."
Well, I see your point that in the show, Rand barely had any sword training at the alst episode of s2 but this is yet another issue if the show, it doesn't really establish the character's arcs properly. In the books, Rand already had a lot of training and he still barely could make it against Turak. More importantly, the thing that finally helped him do it in the books is the flame and the void, which hasn't even been mentioned in the series, although it is this kind of self control, that basically allows him to channel half way effectively and keep it together in the books.[
"I’m sorry, using the dagger on a spear is the same thing as using it. You’re touching it…it’s a metaphor for using the darkness and accepting it. It’s a metaphor for turning to the Dark Side…it misses the whole point." "Mat’s arc is not about weaponizing his darkness. That’s Perrin’s arc, and finding that balance. Mat’s arc is very different from that, and doing this just bothers me. I don’t feel it was built up through the season that his arc would be about weaponizing his own darkness, and walking that line."
I don't think there is much to add here. I was under the impression that Mat's current "spear" in the series is just a temporary thing and he would get the real ashandarei eventually. If it turns out that this is it though, I do also have the same problem with it. It's kinda stupid that one should be able to cheat the dark forces within the dagger so easily. All in all, I completely agree with Sanderson that the series is doing very well at recreating specific scenes but it's really falling flat when it comes to the underlying story and the arcs for the characters. He really hits the nail on the head there IMO.
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