Wheel of Time thread

Never played it, don't care about spoilers for that series though. What's the chained-caster ripoff?

Ah yeah, I remember the books but never played DAO2. Interesting the Qunari did that. I was guessing something blood-magicish from the Tower. (Played the first DA:O for a while.)

Overall I liked it. Pacing was great and they laid a lot of groundwork.

I thought the episode intro with Logain was great. Actually portraying him as "not an evil overlord" as well as the mad-voices and his reasoning was nice. Moiraine telling him he's a matchstick compared to the real Dragon was also a nice touch. I thought the Ghealdan King sold his role well in the brief few moments he had too.

I didn't like Nynaeve much in the books but I didn't outright hate her either. One thing I did enjoy was her and Lan's relationship and how it blossomed. I think they're doing a good job in the show with it so far and ep 4 continued that. Lan asking her if she wants to know what the words mean instead of just telling her was yet another nice touch. Real respect implied there.

I caught on to what was going to happen with Nynaeve a few seconds before it happened. As I appreciated how devastating the axe shrapnel was I went, "holy crap she's going to heal the whole room."

Seeing the Aes Sedai camp and their interactions was good too. The strife between the Ajah's, foreshadowing Liandrin, the Warders daily lives, and even the, "promiscuity" between them was well captured.

I can't put my finger on it but I'm wondering if Liandrian is already Black Ajah or if we're going to see her turn. IIRC she's been Black Ajah for a long while before we first meet her in the books. Nothing really to go on here other than a gut feeling but I'm not sure in the show.

In the books when I was first reading them I felt Mat's plot with the dagger dragged on. (Maybe it was using Shadar as literal foreshadowing that the series would drag on...) Thankfully, so far, I don't get quite the same feeling. That said, I still kind of want that plot to hurry up so he can start developing.

I liked Egwene's line to the tinker that maybe they already found the song. (Otherwise, mostly boring which is par for her course.)

Poor Perrin...

Hey, all. I posted this on r/fantasy--then realized I probably should have posted it here. I don't want to act like I'm ignoring you all. I made a note in the actual episode one thread, but then realized with 3k comments nobody would see it.

So here is a copy of what I wrote over there. I can't say TOO much about the production--mostly because my involvement (as I say below) is really more of a consultant than anything else. I wasn't there for most of the filming or even most of the brainstorming or writing.

But I do have some thoughts that you all might find interesting.

---Original Post--

Haven't watched the final product yet, as I wasn't able to make the premier. Disclosure, I'm one of the producers. My part equated to reading the scripts and offering feedback directly to Rafe, the show runner. I'll be watching tonight, and there are a few details I'm curious to find out about in regards to whether he took my advice or not.

Biggest thing he and I disagreed on was Perrin's wife. I realize that there is a good opportunity here for Perrin to be shown with rage issues, and to be afraid of the potential beast inside of him. I liked that idea, but didn't like it being a wife for multiple reasons. First off, it feels a lot like the disposable wife trope (AKA Woman in the Fridge.) Beyond that, I think the trauma of having killed your wife is so huge, the story this is telling can't realistically deal with it in a way that is responsible. Perrin killing his wife then going off on an adventure really bothers me, even still. I have faith that the writers won't treat it lightly, but still. That kind of trauma, dealt with realistically and responsibly, is really difficult for an adventure series to deal with.

I suggested instead that he kill Master Luhhhan. As much as I hate to do Luhhan dirty like that, I think the idea Rafe and the team had here is a good one for accelerating Perrin's plot. Accidentally killing your master steps the trauma back a little, but gives the same motivations and hesitance. One thing I don't want this WoT adaptation to try to do is lean into being a tonal Game of Thrones replacement--IE, I don't want to lean into the "Grimdark" ideas. Killing Perrin's wife felt edgy just to be edgy.

That said, I really liked a LOT about this first episode. I prefer this method of us not knowing who the Dragon is, and I actually preferred (EDIT: Well, maybe not prefer, but think it's a bold and interesting choice that I understand) this prologue. I thought it was a neat, different take on how to start the WoT. I really liked the introduction to Mat, and in screenplay form, I thought the pacing was solid--fast, catchy, exciting. People are complaining about it, though, so maybe in show form it's too choppy. When I was on set, I liked the practical effects, and what I saw of the acting--so I'm expecting both of those to be great in the finished product.

EDIT: For those complaining about Abell Cauthon, I did try to get this one changed too. So at least they heard from one of us, offering complaint, before going to production. I always had a soft spot for him. I didn't expect them to change this, though, with Mat's more gritty backstory. Again, I do wish they had taken a less "grim" feel to all of this, though I do think the details of introducing Mat were interesting and a nice acceleration of his character. Which is a good thing, since the series will need to condense from the books, so moving character beats up in time is going to generally help with that.

Another useful comment I made to a question in the other thread:

So, I have fought hard (but amicably) with Rafe on this very issue (changing so many scenes from the books) multiple times. I have several times said, "There is a perfectly serviceable scene from the books that happens here. Why not use that one?"

The explanations I get involve two primary themes. First theme is that of casting issues and the ensemble nature Rafe is shooting for. Things that are easy in a book are sometimes very difficult in a film, for real world reasons that are annoying. Logistics, casting realities, etc. This requires some changes.

An example of this is that the Wheel of Time eventually becomes a huge ensemble piece. The first book, though, is very Rand-centric. Rafe wanted to accelerate this ensemble feel; it's one of his visions for the story. This, however, requires many new manufactured scenes (some of which are suggested by the books) to show things people are doing when Rand isn't there.

The other big reason he's doing this is for acceleration reasons. He has eight episodes. That's going to require a lot of acceleration. He's got to rewrite scenes in order to accomplish this, because simply doing the same scenes faster leads to disaster. (Watch the Golden Compass film to see why. You end up with people just walking up, spouting dialogue from the books in a non-dymanic way--then cutting to the next one. It's super dull.) Rafe's philosophy seems to be that he needs to construct new scenes that work to accomplish the same things as in the book, but are developed specifically for this type of narrative.

I say seems in that line because I don't want to speak for him. I'm not part of the writer's room; I wasn't there when they brainstormed these changes. I read the scripts in an early state, and offered feedback.

However, you can watch the first three Harry Potter movies to see why sometimes adaptation like this is needed. The first two are very faithful, and are also boring, because the pacing of a book is so different from a film or TV show. The third is much more heavily adapted, and is in my opinion the best of the films.

Game of thrones early seasons show you can adapt more straight across and be successful--but George worked in television, and his scripts are perhaps more naturally matched to that format.

Either way, I had your complaints, but this is one of the things that Rafe persuaded me on. I think this might be the only way he could do Wheel of Time in eight episodes in a way that works. And it's why I've said, for months now, I view this as a new turning of the wheel. It's not an adaptation of the books to me; it's an adaptation of the NEXT time these people are living this story.

Once again, this is just one person's perspective. Rafe can say this better than I do, and perhaps there are things about his motives that I misunderstood.

Like the idea about Laila. Would be a juicy twist and either save Perrin from his grief or confuse the poor boy even more than he already is.

I do wonder how the Wolf Brother aspect is going to play into his story. If he just ‘figures it out’, that’s going to be a bit weak, I think. However, if - in the show - his particular ta’verenness manifests itself in some kind of wolf hive mind, that might work.

-Everything involving Logain was pretty cool, starting with the intro in Ghealdan. Love the male channeling effects, it really shows the taint like some slick nasty oil on the channeling weaves. Also like Logain himself, cool character so far.

- It was good to see some Aes Sedai interact amongst each other. We got a first glimpse at white Tower politics, of which we'll see much much more in the future but this was a good start.

- I also liked the traveling people. Their wagons were a little too bright at times which didn't quite make them look worn enough but otherwise, the turned out pretty much exactly like they were described in the book. No complaints there. So, they didn't meet Elyas yet but there is still plenty of time.

- In general, I liked that they slowed down a little since episode 3. 1 and 2 tried to pack a lot of stuff into a very short amount of screen time probably to make sure they got an exciting pilot but they overdid it and fell short on exposure there. Now we seem to get a little bit of that missing backstory stuff. Well, better late than never.

- I know, I already mentioned the channeling but two instances I want to point out:
1. I like how they seem to keep track of the gestures used for the different weaves (like the hands palm facing when they make a shield and then the crossed stretched out arms down when they link up. Looks cool and I guess as show keeps going, we - the audience - will learn to tell pretty much instantly what they are channeling from the gestures, looking forward to that.
2. Loved loved loved when Nynaeve suddenly channeled. Holy shit. I mean, we all saw it coming but still, this was one rare instance of me making an audible comment at my screen. How cool was that? Makes me very curious, what it will be like when Rand finally gets going.

The whole way they handle Rand, Mat and Thom isn't that great so far IMO. First off, now they skipped both Baerlon and Whitebridge. I get, city settings are expensive to make but at least one of them, I'd still have liked to see, just so that the Emmond's Fielders get to marvel at a smaller city before coming to Caemlyn. Then Tom was only with the two boys now for what - half an Episode? I don't feel that justifies the bond they are supposed to have with him at this point yet. Also, I hope they don't just skip over Rand learning to play the flute (or at least some instrument) from Thom. It was a great way in the books to give his otherwise rather distant and tormented character a gentler side while he has to learn what it means to become the Dragon Reborn. Not sure yet what to think about the whole misunderstanding about Mat being able to channel. We'll have to wait and see where that goes.