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Post by alanc9 on Aug 18, 2017 1:28:01 GMT
"Good damage" is vague. How much damage is "good"? Again, the ME:A companions run well ahead of the trilogy companions here. i don't see why you think they're useless against strong opponents. They shoot and they use their powers, don't they? Ok then, show a video of companions killing an ascendant. On their own. And it has to be in less than 5 seconds, because that's how long it would take for me to take it down using companions' powers on MET. Stop lying. Or rather, stop with the hysterical overstatement.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 18, 2017 1:31:11 GMT
There were ascendants in MET?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 18, 2017 1:32:29 GMT
He means the kett with the bubble shields and orbs.
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 18, 2017 1:41:54 GMT
Ok then, show a video of companions killing an ascendant. On their own. And it has to be in less than 5 seconds, because that's how long it would take for me to take it down using companions' powers on MET. Stop lying. Or rather, stop with the hysterical overstatement. Then answer this question sincerely. If I could only use companions powers and not my own powers and couldn't shoot, which would kill faster? 1) Me directing the companions to use their powers on the enemy 2) Me waiting for the companions to use their powers when they want to on who they want to. If you answer 2, I'm the one who'll say "Stop lying".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 2:15:23 GMT
This is a really good example of companion power use on insanity for ME3. I especially miss this now with only having 3 powers on the bar. I do admit though that the companion AI for Andromeda is better than previous games.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 18, 2017 2:27:43 GMT
"Good damage" is vague. How much damage is "good"? Again, the ME:A companions run well ahead of the trilogy companions here. i don't see why you think they're useless against strong opponents. They shoot and they use their powers, don't they? Ok then, show a video of companions killing an ascendant. On their own. And it has to be in less than 5 seconds, because that's how long it would take for me to take it down using companions' powers on MET. Companions just about never take out top tier enemies on their own, because their power and weapon damage tends to be less than the PC's by a noticeable margin. When was the last time you've seen any MET companion take on a brute or banshee that you didn't end up finishing off yourself? They'd never finish off an ascendant on their own because of the immunity and orb mechanic, and since we don't have nifty cobra RPG's in ME3SP, we can actually finish them off faster here with simple consumables. In any case, after 3 full runs here, I've seen the companions in MEA do a bang up job on crowd control, which is really the bulk of what I want out of them in the first place, especially companions like Drack and Vetra who steal my kills. There's a simple pleasure in watching Drack run up from behind with a krogan hammer. I didn't even know he used that the first time.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 18, 2017 2:33:21 GMT
Then answer this question sincerely. If I could only use companions powers and not my own powers and couldn't shoot, which would kill faster? 1) Me directing the companions to use their powers on the enemy 2) Me waiting for the companions to use their powers when they want to on who they want to. If you answer 2, I'm the one who'll say "Stop lying". *shrug* 1, of course. It's a silly question, though. Nobody ever said that the ME:A companions wouldn't be slightly more efficient with the player controlling their power use. ME:A companions are worse with power use, but better with weapons use.
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 18, 2017 4:16:56 GMT
Ok then, show a video of companions killing an ascendant. On their own. And it has to be in less than 5 seconds, because that's how long it would take for me to take it down using companions' powers on MET. Companions just about never take out top tier enemies on their own, because their power and weapon damage tends to be less than the PC's by a noticeable margin. When was the last time you've seen any MET companion take on a brute or banshee that you didn't end up finishing off yourself? They'd never finish off an ascendant on their own because of the immunity and orb mechanic, and since we don't have nifty cobra RPG's in ME3SP, we can actually finish them off faster here with simple consumables. In any case, after 3 full runs here, I've seen the companions in MEA do a bang up job on crowd control, which is really the bulk of what I want out of them in the first place, especially companions like Drack and Vetra who steal my kills. There's a simple pleasure in watching Drack run up from behind with a krogan hammer. I didn't even know he used that the first time. Depending on the level, the ascendant orb is quite easy to "kill". I disable it with one shot, and after that, it's just the ascendant with no shields or armor (on contrary to the banshee, who has barrier + armor). A well placed incinerate followed by some shots could take care of it. But I bet I can still take a banshee out faster with companions from ME2 and ME3 than an ascendant with companions from ME:A (considering, again, only companions using their powers)
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 18, 2017 4:18:23 GMT
Then answer this question sincerely. If I could only use companions powers and not my own powers and couldn't shoot, which would kill faster? 1) Me directing the companions to use their powers on the enemy 2) Me waiting for the companions to use their powers when they want to on who they want to. If you answer 2, I'm the one who'll say "Stop lying". *shrug* 1, of course. It's a silly question, though. Nobody ever said that the ME:A companions wouldn't be slightly more efficient with the player controlling their power use. ME:A companions are worse with power use, but better with weapons use. Seriously? Because the whole point until now was that companions now are better than before. If I can't control their powers, they are not helping more than my previous companions from MET did (I'm not talking about AI) And they would be much better with weapons use if I could, you know, CHOOSE THEIR WEAPONS LIKE IN PREVIOUS MASS EFFECTS.
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Post by vonuber on Aug 18, 2017 6:53:53 GMT
It's an aside, but given you are apparently doing a masters degree I thought it just worth pointing out that writing in capital letters doesn't make your point stronger or more valid. I don't disagree that having the option to choose when companions can use powers would be nice for those who want it, I just think that its loss is not as great or impactful as you are making out. The MEA companion ai is much superior than the MET; part of that trade-off may also be the restricted weapon choice. Personally I head canon it as then being individuals who choose what they want to do and how to fight, rather than sheps/ryders personal dress up slave dolls.
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Post by Guts on Aug 18, 2017 7:06:28 GMT
It's an aside, but given you are apparently doing a masters degree I thought it just worth pointing out that writing in capital letters doesn't make your point stronger or more valid. I don't disagree that having the option to choose when companions can use powers would be nice for those who want it, I just think that its loss is not as great or impactful as you are making out. The MEA companion ai is much superior than the MET; part of that trade-off may also be the restricted weapon choice. Personally I head canon it as then being individuals who choose what they want to do and how to fight, rather than sheps/ryders personal dress up slave dolls. I never saw the loss of the squad menu thing as being that big of a deal, though I can understand that it would turn some people off. Mass Effect wasn't really much of tactical shooter IMHO.
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Post by fraggle on Aug 18, 2017 7:06:38 GMT
Now obviously I could have paused and micromanaged them like a puppeteer to come aid me, but that would break the flow of combat and stop my roleplay illusion of them being independent characters. You don't need to pause, you can assign their powers and use them like you're using your own. You PC users have even more slots available for this. On console I have 3 powers for myself and 1 button for each squadmate, and even then it's still more efficient than what MEA did with their random squadmate power use. I guess that's where the general problem lies though. People who liked to play more efficiently and tactically in the MET instead of more or less trying to solo stuff are just screwed in MEA, and there's no denying that. Whether people enjoy to let their squadmates run around randomly or not doesn't change the fact that playing with squadmate orders so they use their powers whenever the player wants is more efficient than MEA squaddies can ever be. MEA combat has been dumbed down from the trilogy and it plays more like MP without having decent real life people playing with you.
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 18, 2017 7:27:38 GMT
Stop lying. Or rather, stop with the hysterical overstatement. Then answer this question sincerely. If I could only use companions powers and not my own powers and couldn't shoot, which would kill faster? 1) Me directing the companions to use their powers on the enemy 2) Me waiting for the companions to use their powers when they want to on who they want to. If you answer 2, I'm the one who'll say "Stop lying". I do miss having control of my squaddies' powers, but these questions overlook an important fact. In MEA, we are granted ridulously swift individual cooldowns for all of our powers. The ability to setup our own instantaneous combos was substituted for the ability to do so in concert with our companions. I'm not saying that one or the other is better, but only that they are two ways of accomplishing the same thing. (Having both rapid, individual cooldowns and precise control of squaddie power usage would be brokenly powerful, of course.) To use your earlier example, I'm not certain that I could kill an Ascendant any more quickly with squad combos on demand. I can already kill them in mere seconds on my own (playing Insanity of course). The lengthiest part is destroying the orb, and that thing melts under Incendiary Ammo. I killed an Ascendant in seconds earlier today with Tactical Cloak + Turbocharge + Autofire N7 Valkyrie + Incendiary Ammo. I dropped the orb in 5-6 seconds and then melted the kett's face with the above. It died almost instantly. The current setup isn't weaker; it's just different. I can definitely understand preferring one or the other. I miss precise squaddie commands, too. It felt more like a team game, to me. I do enjoy the powerful feeling of the current setup, though. I thought I'd hate the new setup, but it's not bad.
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 18, 2017 8:39:45 GMT
Then answer this question sincerely. If I could only use companions powers and not my own powers and couldn't shoot, which would kill faster? 1) Me directing the companions to use their powers on the enemy 2) Me waiting for the companions to use their powers when they want to on who they want to. If you answer 2, I'm the one who'll say "Stop lying". I do miss having control of my squaddies' powers, but these questions overlook an important fact. In MEA, we are granted ridulously swift individual cooldowns for all of our powers. The ability to setup our own instantaneous combos was substituted for the ability to do so in concert with our companions. I'm not saying that one or the other is better, but only that they are two ways of accomplishing the same thing. (Having both rapid, individual cooldowns and precise control of squaddie power usage would be brokenly powerful, of course.) To use your earlier example, I'm not certain that I could kill an Ascendant any more quickly with squad combos on demand. I can already kill them in mere seconds on my own (playing Insanity of course). The lengthiest part is destroying the orb, and that thing melts under Incendiary Ammo. I killed and Ascendant in seconds earlier today with Tactical Cloak + Turbocharge + Autofire N7 Valkyrie + Incendiary Ammo. I dropped the orb in 5-6 seconds and then melted the kett's face with the above. It died almost instantly. The current setup isn't weaker; it's just different. I can definitely understand preferring one or the other. I miss precise squaddie commands, too. It felt more like a team game, to me. I do enjoy the powerful feeling of the current setup, though. I thought I'd hate the new setup, but it's not bad. You have a good point, actually. When we had squad usage, we couldn't use more than 1 power at once. Now using 3 for each would make it too OP, ok, I can understand that. But I still feel tactic in the game is pretty much gone. On MET all the time I paused, took a look on the battlefield and used powers where they where most needed, and I thought twice before charging, because a bad charge could really kill me (at least in ME2, in ME3 with the right CD you can charge every 2 seconds). In ME:A it's just... too easy to charge and kill everything. The game is hard on the beginning, understanding the new controls and pace of battle, but after that... I never felt the smallest need for tactic.
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 18, 2017 8:41:41 GMT
It's an aside, but given you are apparently doing a masters degree I thought it just worth pointing out that writing in capital letters doesn't make your point stronger or more valid. I don't disagree that having the option to choose when companions can use powers would be nice for those who want it, I just think that its loss is not as great or impactful as you are making out. The MEA companion ai is much superior than the MET; part of that trade-off may also be the restricted weapon choice. Personally I head canon it as then being individuals who choose what they want to do and how to fight, rather than sheps/ryders personal dress up slave dolls. Now, seriously, that's an excuse for being lazy. Even in DA2 you could at least choose the characters' weapons. It's the first Bioware game where you can't customize anything about your companions.
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Post by vonuber on Aug 18, 2017 9:05:02 GMT
Now, seriously, that's an excuse for being lazy. Even in DA2 you could at least choose the characters' weapons. It's the first Bioware game where you can't customize anything about your companions. I don't relaly care about the weapons, but the lack of appearance changes annoys me. That strikes me as symptomatic of them running out of time.
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 18, 2017 13:03:59 GMT
Some really good points buried in this long winded rant/review, but we already have a thread for reviews and there's nothing groundbreaking here to warrant it's own thread.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 18, 2017 16:20:54 GMT
Ok then, show a video of companions killing an ascendant. On their own. And it has to be in less than 5 seconds, because that's how long it would take for me to take it down using companions' powers on MET. 5 seconds? You mean from the time you engage the orb until the kett is dead? Which squadmates would you use? In fact I'll let you choose any 2 squadmates from all 4 games. Why I say that? Even in the best conditions, it would take more than 5 seconds. You only mention using powers. That in itself would take longer. Do I have anything to prove you wrong? No. But do you have anything that proves that the 2 squadmates can take one down in 5 seconds. If I have James and Ashley firing at the orb, I can see it been destroyed quickly. Then both fire at the kett hopefully killing it before it becomes kett-in-a-bubble thing again. To prevent that from happening, use charge or concussive shot. Those help. As I said in an earlier post. I had 2 squadmates, I believe it was Jaal and Cora, fire at the orb while I stood around watching. It took them a long time to destroy the orb. Once destroyed, they damaged the kett a bit before it grew another bubble. I don't recall how long it took, but I told myself I won't to that again.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 18, 2017 16:30:29 GMT
When was the last time you've seen any MET companion take on a brute or banshee that you didn't end up finishing off yourself? Not too long ago. I've seen Ashley/Garrus/Kaidan/James/Javik kill one of those with ease without my help. James and Ashley do it a lot when I have them together. Just to add. I saw Ashley melee a phantom to death on Cronos playing insanity mode. excellent. I've also seen her killed by them as well, but still awesome to see her do that. I can't say any of the squamdates in MEA steal my kills like Ashley and James do in ME3.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 18, 2017 17:20:01 GMT
It's a pity ME3 didn't track the kill stats. We'd be a lot better off with real numbers rather than dueling perceptions.
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 19, 2017 2:48:54 GMT
Ok then, show a video of companions killing an ascendant. On their own. And it has to be in less than 5 seconds, because that's how long it would take for me to take it down using companions' powers on MET. 5 seconds? You mean from the time you engage the orb until the kett is dead? Which squadmates would you use? In fact I'll let you choose any 2 squadmates from all 4 games. Why I say that? Even in the best conditions, it would take more than 5 seconds. You only mention using powers. That in itself would take longer. Do I have anything to prove you wrong? No. But do you have anything that proves that the 2 squadmates can take one down in 5 seconds. If I have James and Ashley firing at the orb, I can see it been destroyed quickly. Then both fire at the kett hopefully killing it before it becomes kett-in-a-bubble thing again. To prevent that from happening, use charge or concussive shot. Those help. As I said in an earlier post. I had 2 squadmates, I believe it was Jaal and Cora, fire at the orb while I stood around watching. It took them a long time to destroy the orb. Once destroyed, they damaged the kett a bit before it grew another bubble. I don't recall how long it took, but I told myself I won't to that again. 5 seconds may be kind of an overstatement, but it depends on which powers to use and how much damage they could cause. Ascendants and the orb don't have much life, as I said, I take down the orb with only one shot. Two powers (one on the orb and other on the ascendant), depending on the build, MIGHT do the job. But even if it was not 5 seconds, it would still be much quicker than ME:A companions.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 19, 2017 3:57:20 GMT
Now obviously I could have paused and micromanaged them like a puppeteer to come aid me, but that would break the flow of combat and stop my roleplay illusion of them being independent characters. You don't need to pause, you can assign their powers and use them like you're using your own. You PC users have even more slots available for this. On console I have 3 powers for myself and 1 button for each squadmate, and even then it's still more efficient than what MEA did with their random squadmate power use. I guess that's where the general problem lies though. People who liked to play more efficiently and tactically in the MET instead of more or less trying to solo stuff are just screwed in MEA, and there's no denying that. Whether people enjoy to let their squadmates run around randomly or not doesn't change the fact that playing with squadmate orders so they use their powers whenever the player wants is more efficient than MEA squaddies can ever be. MEA combat has been dumbed down from the trilogy and it plays more like MP without having decent real life people playing with you. i wonder if this speaks to MEA having better squad AI since you don't have to micromanage them.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 19, 2017 4:12:17 GMT
[Depending on the level, the ascendant orb is quite easy to "kill". I disable it with one shot, and after that, it's just the ascendant with no shields or armor (on contrary to the banshee, who has barrier + armor). A well placed incinerate followed by some shots could take care of it. What level are you talking about? When I played on Normal -- I always play a joke difficulty my first time so I can blow through the combat -- it took more hits than that. Incinerate + Fire combo detonation from Concussive Shot or whatever + weapons fire from all three squadmates still won't get more than a third or so of the ascendant's health bar gone before the barrier goes back up.
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 19, 2017 5:10:01 GMT
[Depending on the level, the ascendant orb is quite easy to "kill". I disable it with one shot, and after that, it's just the ascendant with no shields or armor (on contrary to the banshee, who has barrier + armor). A well placed incinerate followed by some shots could take care of it. What level are you talking about? When I played on Normal -- I always play a joke difficulty my first time so I can blow through the combat -- it took more hits than that. Incinerate + Fire combo detonation from Concussive Shot or whatever + weapons fire from all three squadmates still won't get more than a third or so of the ascendant's health bar gone before the barrier goes back up. I can kill ascendants, on Insanity, within seconds of their shield dropping for the first time. It requires a well developed character, but nothing extremely high-level. I use Incendiary Ammo on the X5 Ghost or N7 Valkyrie w/Autofire. Tactical Cloak + Turbocharge and the Assault Rifles passive does the rest. If you're shooting it in the head, as you should be, it dies almost instantaneously. This is my boss-killer Favorite that gets rounded out with Invasion at later levels. I already explained my views regarding this apples and oranges comparison, above. I just wanted to point out that it is not hard to destroy most bosses very quickly in MEA.
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Post by fraggle on Aug 19, 2017 7:22:26 GMT
You don't need to pause, you can assign their powers and use them like you're using your own. You PC users have even more slots available for this. On console I have 3 powers for myself and 1 button for each squadmate, and even then it's still more efficient than what MEA did with their random squadmate power use. I guess that's where the general problem lies though. People who liked to play more efficiently and tactically in the MET instead of more or less trying to solo stuff are just screwed in MEA, and there's no denying that. Whether people enjoy to let their squadmates run around randomly or not doesn't change the fact that playing with squadmate orders so they use their powers whenever the player wants is more efficient than MEA squaddies can ever be. MEA combat has been dumbed down from the trilogy and it plays more like MP without having decent real life people playing with you. i wonder if this speaks to MEA having better squad AI since you don't have to micromanage them. That's not the point. You don't have to micromanage the squadmates in the MET either. The point is that assigning their powers and using them when the player wants is more efficient. The player can plan when to use combos, can plan which power to use and in which moment once they're cooled down. MEA is not that efficient. If you level up all of a squadmate's powers, then they use whatever they want, whenever they want. That's not efficient or tactical at all. It's a random chance whether they use the right power you could use for a combo. But like I said, people who didn't play that way in the MET won't miss this in MEA. Personally, I do. And that's why MEA has my least favourite combat.
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