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Post by abaris on Aug 19, 2017 10:53:04 GMT
If you level up all of a squadmate's powers, then they use whatever they want, whenever they want. That's not efficient or tactical at all. It's not even efficient. They're targeting enemies that are immune to their powers.
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Post by fchopin on Aug 19, 2017 13:29:30 GMT
If you level up all of a squadmate's powers, then they use whatever they want, whenever they want. That's not efficient or tactical at all. It's not even efficient. They're targeting enemies that are immune to their powers. I give the developers zero points for team combat in MEA. I can not remember ever playing a worse team combat game.
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Post by anarchy65 on Aug 19, 2017 14:19:49 GMT
[Depending on the level, the ascendant orb is quite easy to "kill". I disable it with one shot, and after that, it's just the ascendant with no shields or armor (on contrary to the banshee, who has barrier + armor). A well placed incinerate followed by some shots could take care of it. What level are you talking about? When I played on Normal -- I always play a joke difficulty my first time so I can blow through the combat -- it took more hits than that. Incinerate + Fire combo detonation from Concussive Shot or whatever + weapons fire from all three squadmates still won't get more than a third or so of the ascendant's health bar gone before the barrier goes back up. I played on Normal too. A well modded dhan shotgun with incendiary ammo + turbocharge takes it down on one shot. Then two more shots + melee attack (asari sword) on ascendant kills it.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 19, 2017 17:22:26 GMT
Ah, right. Like I said, I don't play vanguards.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 19, 2017 17:24:26 GMT
It's not even efficient. They're targeting enemies that are immune to their powers. I give the developers zero points for team combat in MEA. I can not remember ever playing a worse team combat game. Worse than NWN?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 19, 2017 17:27:24 GMT
i wonder if this speaks to MEA having better squad AI since you don't have to micromanage them. That's not the point. You don't have to micromanage the squadmates in the MET either. The point is that assigning their powers and using them when the player wants is more efficient. The player can plan when to use combos, can plan which power to use and in which moment once they're cooled down. MEA is not that efficient. If you level up all of a squadmate's powers, then they use whatever they want, whenever they want. That's not efficient or tactical at all. It's a random chance whether they use the right power you could use for a combo. But like I said, people who didn't play that way in the MET won't miss this in MEA. Personally, I do. And that's why MEA has my least favourite combat. Is "efficiency" a useful metric in itself? If so, why? Simply enjoying doing the management is a separate issue.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 19, 2017 18:37:04 GMT
Is "efficiency" a useful metric in itself? If so, why? Yes. I was not an "efficient" player initially in my earlier ME playing days, because I didn't understand the many mechanics and hidden mechanics of the games. Like most people I think, I started off as a soldier. Paying attention to in-game tips and lore can pay off in these games. ME2 flat out tells you how to make BE's. Taking advantage of this knowledge in a tactical combat cRPG that has pause and control of squad power usage makes you a more efficient killer, which is satisfying. Example - after the "git gud" period of ME3MP for me, perhaps coinciding with the Leviathan release, I was ready to start another SP playthrough. I was surprised by how much my efficiency had changed as a player myself, as well as with my squad mates. Insanity was a breeze. Sure, some of that was based on how my actual game playing had changed due to the influence of MP - I paused much less frequently because I actually used my hotkeys, so when I did pause it was to set up something nasty for the enemy. That is fun! Is that an answer?
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Post by fchopin on Aug 19, 2017 18:38:37 GMT
I give the developers zero points for team combat in MEA. I can not remember ever playing a worse team combat game. Worse than NWN? I don't think i have ever played NWN.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 19, 2017 18:54:48 GMT
The perplexing thing is ME has always pretty much been quite terrible at the game play with the team. They have always bordered on useless. If you want a game with good team stuff. Play Dragon Age.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 19, 2017 19:18:52 GMT
Is "efficiency" a useful metric in itself? If so, why? Yes. I was not an "efficient" player initially in my earlier ME playing days, because I didn't understand the many mechanics and hidden mechanics of the games. Like most people I think, I started off as a soldier. Paying attention to in-game tips and lore can pay off in these games. ME2 flat out tells you how to make BE's. Taking advantage of this knowledge in a tactical combat cRPG that has pause and control of squad power usage makes you a more efficient killer, which is satisfying. Example - after the "git gud" period of ME3MP for me, perhaps coinciding with the Leviathan release, I was ready to start another SP playthrough. I was surprised by how much my efficiency had changed as a player myself, as well as with my squad mates. Insanity was a breeze. Sure, some of that was based on how my actual game playing had changed due to the influence of MP - I paused much less frequently because I actually used my hotkeys, so when I did pause it was to set up something nasty for the enemy. That is fun! Is that an answer? Not exactly, but that's my fault for not limiting the definition of "efficiency" to what I was actually talking about. I was just referring to the efficiency of controlled squadmates over uncontrolled squadmates. Both game styles have ways to reach efficiency in the broad sense. You use one set of tools to achieve that efficiency when you can control squadmate power use, and another set when you can't. I don't see the case for one set of tools over the other set beyond personal taste.
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Post by fraggle on Aug 19, 2017 19:43:57 GMT
The perplexing thing is ME has always pretty much been quite terrible at the game play with the team. They have always bordered on useless. If you want a game with good team stuff. Play Dragon Age. Um, no. Squadmates in ME are pretty awesome and far from useless if you know how to use them. Just a tiny example from my current Insanity run. I can kill 2 enemies at the same time by letting Miranda use Warp on an armored enemy, then sending Kasumi in with her Shadow Strike to finish the guy off while I take out another enemy with a headshot from my Sniper Rifle. Yes. I was not an "efficient" player initially in my earlier ME playing days, because I didn't understand the many mechanics and hidden mechanics of the games. Like most people I think, I started off as a soldier. Paying attention to in-game tips and lore can pay off in these games. ME2 flat out tells you how to make BE's. Taking advantage of this knowledge in a tactical combat cRPG that has pause and control of squad power usage makes you a more efficient killer, which is satisfying. Example - after the "git gud" period of ME3MP for me, perhaps coinciding with the Leviathan release, I was ready to start another SP playthrough. I was surprised by how much my efficiency had changed as a player myself, as well as with my squad mates. Insanity was a breeze. Sure, some of that was based on how my actual game playing had changed due to the influence of MP - I paused much less frequently because I actually used my hotkeys, so when I did pause it was to set up something nasty for the enemy. That is fun! Is that an answer? Not exactly, but that's my fault for not limiting the definition of "efficiency" to what I was actually talking about. I was just referring to the efficiency of controlled squadmates over uncontrolled squadmates. Both game styles have ways to reach efficiency in the broad sense. You use one set of tools to achieve that efficiency when you can control squadmate power use, and another set when you can't. I don't see the case for one set of tools over the other set beyond personal taste. Do you honestly say that squadmates running around doing their thing randomly are more efficient, or just as efficient as squadmates controlled by the player that use their powers for combos in precise moments? If so, then I don't know what to say anymore. Random attacks and powers can never be as efficient as planned ones. The only reason the player can be efficient in MEA is because they can combo themselves off, but that doesn't really include squadmates, unless they happen to cast a power to combo with at the right time and when the player's powers are not on cooldown either. And that's a lot of chance.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 19, 2017 20:38:55 GMT
Not exactly, but that's my fault for not limiting the definition of "efficiency" to what I was actually talking about. I was just referring to the efficiency of controlled squadmates over uncontrolled squadmates. Both game styles have ways to reach efficiency in the broad sense. You use one set of tools to achieve that efficiency when you can control squadmate power use, and another set when you can't. I don't see the case for one set of tools over the other set beyond personal taste. Do you honestly say that squadmates running around doing their thing randomly are more efficient, or just as efficient as squadmates controlled by the player that use their powers for combos in precise moments? If so, then I don't know what to say anymore. Random attacks and powers can never be as efficient as planned ones. Huh? I said no such thing. My point was that I don't see why the greater efficiency of controlled squadmates is relevant. I didn't question whether it existed. (anarchy65 got the wrong idea about this upthread too, but I'm not sure how.) If you miss an opportunity to trigger a combo because the relevant ability's on cooldown, isn't that on you?
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Post by colfoley on Aug 19, 2017 20:56:41 GMT
The perplexing thing is ME has always pretty much been quite terrible at the game play with the team. They have always bordered on useless. If you want a game with good team stuff. Play Dragon Age. Um, no. Squadmates in ME are pretty awesome and far from useless if you know how to use them. Just a tiny example from my current Insanity run. I can kill 2 enemies at the same time by letting Miranda use Warp on an armored enemy, then sending Kasumi in with her Shadow Strike to finish the guy off while I take out another enemy with a headshot from my Sniper Rifle. Not exactly, but that's my fault for not limiting the definition of "efficiency" to what I was actually talking about. I was just referring to the efficiency of controlled squadmates over uncontrolled squadmates. Both game styles have ways to reach efficiency in the broad sense. You use one set of tools to achieve that efficiency when you can control squadmate power use, and another set when you can't. I don't see the case for one set of tools over the other set beyond personal taste. Do you honestly say that squadmates running around doing their thing randomly are more efficient, or just as efficient as squadmates controlled by the player that use their powers for combos in precise moments? If so, then I don't know what to say anymore. Random attacks and powers can never be as efficient as planned ones. The only reason the player can be efficient in MEA is because they can combo themselves off, but that doesn't really include squadmates, unless they happen to cast a power to combo with at the right time and when the player's powers are not on cooldown either. And that's a lot of chance. its ridiculously easy to set off combos with squad mates.
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