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Post by samhain444 on Sept 29, 2017 17:00:26 GMT
FWIW, the Russian script outline leak supports the "Weekes leak," at least to some extent. There was always going to be some kind of conversation between Shepard and some sort of Reaper intelligence on the Citadel -- called the GUARDIAN in the leak, not the Catalyst -- and then the same three final choices we actually got in the initial release. But in the outline, the content of the conversation isn't there; it's just blank. The team hadn't decided exactly what the Reapers were about yet. I've never been too upset with what they came up with. The Reapers were so dopey from the get-go that I don't consider this a soluble problem. Yeah, they really wrote themselves into a corner on the "indestructibility" of the Reapers. I think if they focused more on, say, a motive for immortality and dominance versus the convoluted "Organics vs Synthetics" narrative, you could have more to work with. I know when I played the first Mass Effect game and spoke with Sovereign on Virmire, my impression was that the Reapers motivation was sustaining their existence and increasing their super-intelligence at the expense of lesser species in the galaxy, each harvest bringing them closer to "something", perhaps even they didn't know definitively. The one thing that I hoped would materialize that never did was dissension that could potentially be exploited. I understood the majority would be indoctrinated but was hoping some older or more advanced iterations would be more independent as facing a unified, unquestioning opposition just seemed a little shallow in terms of an enemy faction.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2017 18:13:39 GMT
Cupcakes are usually meant to celebrate something. In ME3's case, they weren't used in this manner. They were used to bribe Bioware to give you a new ending, because you believe the endings were all the same aside from a color difference. The cupcakes look and taste the same, aside from the letter on them and the different food coloring used.
That is over the line if you ask me.
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 29, 2017 18:31:21 GMT
Cupcakes are usually meant to celebrate something. In ME3's case, they weren't used in this manner. They were used to bribe Bioware to give you a new ending, because you believe the endings were all the same aside from a color difference. The cupcakes look and taste the same, aside from the letter on them and the different food coloring used. That is over the line if you ask me. Bizarre. My view is that people are perfectly entitled to send cupcakes as an act of criticism of the ME3 ending. That's equally valid as sending fan art praising characters/stories. Neither is a bribe.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 29, 2017 19:17:02 GMT
Given that they've said the future of Andromeda is books and comics, it sounds very much like no MEA2 is happening. ^ This. We are not getting a sequel. If there's another Mass effect you can bet it will be back in the Milky Way or something totally different. IF and that's a big IF. I hope you all like Anthem.... They aren't that stupid and they never once said a sequel was out of the question.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 29, 2017 20:44:33 GMT
Cupcakes are usually meant to celebrate something. In ME3's case, they weren't used in this manner. They were used to bribe Bioware to give you a new ending, because you believe the endings were all the same aside from a color difference. The cupcakes look and taste the same, aside from the letter on them and the different food coloring used. That is over the line if you ask me. I wonder if anyone dared to eat one.
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Post by N7Valentine on Sept 29, 2017 20:55:40 GMT
Why go back to the Milky Way? I thought this chapter was done It's not like I wouldn't want to (and believe me, Shep is my favorite) but I think they should simply continue the story in Andromeda. I don't want them to turn it into another Resident Evil with the writing (Essentially a story that goes nowhere ). Just put more effort next time into the writing and release the game as bug-free as possible. Problem solved!
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Post by brfritos on Sept 29, 2017 21:33:32 GMT
I think going back to the Milky Way would simply stagnate the franchise, but that's just me.
And turning Wrex v2 Drack, Liara v2 Peebee, Kaidan v2 Cora, Garrus v2 Vetra, Joker v2 Kallo into copies of their Milky Way counterparts is what? Savvy?
As MEA 2 happening or not, don't know. They said Aliens would end in the third movie, but we had the fourth after some years. In this industry promises don't carry much weight, if people are willing to watch or buy their product they will make a second version no matter what.
And probably we will work with the kett now... you know... a plot never done before...
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Sept 29, 2017 22:08:47 GMT
I think going back to the Milky Way would simply stagnate the franchise, but that's just me.
And turning Wrex v2 Drack, Liara v2 Peebee, Kaidan v2 Cora, Garrus v2 Vetra, Joker v2 Kallo into copies of their Milky Way counterparts is what? Savvy?
As MEA 2 happening or not, don't know. They said Aliens would end in the third movie, but we had the fourth after some years. In this industry promises don't carry much weight, if people are willing to watch or buy their product they will make a second version no matter what.
And probably we will work with the kett now... you know... a plot never done before...
Edgy post, but also hard to argue with.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 29, 2017 22:38:04 GMT
I think going back to the Milky Way would simply stagnate the franchise, but that's just me.
And turning Wrex v2 Drack, Liara v2 Peebee, Kaidan v2 Cora, Garrus v2 Vetra, Joker v2 Kallo into copies of their Milky Way counterparts is what? Savvy?
Except for the fact Drack is different than Wrex, Peebee is different than Liara, Vetra is different than Garrus and Kallo is different than joker, this was spot on.
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Post by Guts on Sept 29, 2017 22:40:00 GMT
I think going back to the Milky Way would simply stagnate the franchise, but that's just me. The theory that I have towards the whole ME3 sequel rather than an ME:A sequel is due to the fact that, whether people liked the endings or not, the endings were quite controversial, often regarded by a lot of people as one of the worst endings in video game history. Andromeda was made to sidestep this by taking place in another galaxy, but it was considered a disappointment by a fair amount of people. I mean I liked ME:A, but they played it waaaaay to safe. I also can't shake this feeling that Bioware Edmonton sort of treated ME:A like an afterthought, Bioware Montreal's last major outing into the singleplayer department received mixed reception, but they gave them control of ME:A. I hate to sound like I'm saying double standards, it's just a sneaking suspicion that I had.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 29, 2017 22:49:41 GMT
I think going back to the Milky Way would simply stagnate the franchise, but that's just me.
And turning Wrex v2 Drack, Liara v2 Peebee, Kaidan v2 Cora, Garrus v2 Vetra, Joker v2 Kallo into copies of their Milky Way counterparts is what? Savvy?
As MEA 2 happening or not, don't know. They said Aliens would end in the third movie, but we had the fourth after some years. In this industry promises don't carry much weight, if people are willing to watch or buy their product they will make a second version no matter what.
And probably we will work with the kett now... you know... a plot never done before...
That is not even close. Nobody is as annoying as Kaiden and none of those people are clones not even close. As to working with the Kett yesh no not happening.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Sept 29, 2017 23:03:03 GMT
I think going back to the Milky Way would simply stagnate the franchise, but that's just me. Pretty much. Yeah. I want to go forward not backwards.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 30, 2017 0:12:49 GMT
Yeah, they really wrote themselves into a corner on the "indestructibility" of the Reapers. I think if they focused more on, say, a motive for immortality and dominance versus the convoluted "Organics vs Synthetics" narrative, you could have more to work with. I know when I played the first Mass Effect game and spoke with Sovereign on Virmire, my impression was that the Reapers motivation was sustaining their existence and increasing their super-intelligence at the expense of lesser species in the galaxy, each harvest bringing them closer to "something", perhaps even they didn't know definitively. The one thing that I hoped would materialize that never did was dissension that could potentially be exploited. I understood the majority would be indoctrinated but was hoping some older or more advanced iterations would be more independent as facing a unified, unquestioning opposition just seemed a little shallow in terms of an enemy faction. Well, the problem with the Reapers just being about dominance is that their plan isn't very efficient at that. They don't need to let organics have mass effect technology. Hell, they don't need to let them develop space travel. One of the sources ME ripped off -- I mean, blatantly ripped off -- was Frederik Pohl's Gateway, and the subsequent novels. (IIRC they're collectively referred to as the "Heechee saga") The setup is that humans discover an abandoned base in the solar system -- in this case an asteroid -- with functional FTL spacecraft. The ships are beyond human science, and there are no comprehensible alien documents found. But the ships work, and human can fly them to the preprogrammed destinations even if they don't understand the language of the control systems. And they find that there's nobody out there. The aliens who built the ships are just gone, and any other advanced life seems to have been wiped out, one way or another. Something isn't letting races develop past a certain point. Sound familiar? This will have to be a bit spoilery for Pohl's books, but the reason his Assassins work and the Reapers don't work is that the Assassins really are what the Reapers only claim to be. They're completely superior to organic life, and utterly uninterested in it until it develops to a point where it might interfere with their long-term plans for the universe. So they wipe out any race that gets to that point, the way we'd exterminate an ant colony if it set up in our kitchen. Nothing against ants, but they don't get to make problems for us. The idea of actually fighting the Assassins is idiotic, and Pohl actually makes fun of it (picture ME as written by a pacifist).
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Post by Iakus on Sept 30, 2017 0:34:44 GMT
Yeah, they really wrote themselves into a corner on the "indestructibility" of the Reapers. I think if they focused more on, say, a motive for immortality and dominance versus the convoluted "Organics vs Synthetics" narrative, you could have more to work with. I know when I played the first Mass Effect game and spoke with Sovereign on Virmire, my impression was that the Reapers motivation was sustaining their existence and increasing their super-intelligence at the expense of lesser species in the galaxy, each harvest bringing them closer to "something", perhaps even they didn't know definitively. The one thing that I hoped would materialize that never did was dissension that could potentially be exploited. I understood the majority would be indoctrinated but was hoping some older or more advanced iterations would be more independent as facing a unified, unquestioning opposition just seemed a little shallow in terms of an enemy faction. Well, the problem with the Reapers just being about dominance is that their plan isn't very efficient at that. They don't need to let organics have mass effect technology. Hell, they don't need to let them develop space travel. One of the sources ME ripped off -- I mean, blatantly ripped off -- was Frederik Pohl's Gateway, and the subsequent novels. (IIRC they're collectively referred to as the "Heechee saga") The setup is that humans discover an abandoned base in the solar system -- in this case an asteroid -- with functional FTL spacecraft. The ships are beyond human science, and there are no comprehensible alien documents found. But the ships work, and human can fly them to the preprogrammed destinations even if they don't understand the language of the control systems. And they find that there's nobody out there. The aliens who built the ships are just gone, and any other advanced life seems to have been wiped out, one way or another. Something isn't letting races develop past a certain point. Sound familiar? This will have to be a bit spoilery for Pohl's books, but the reason his Assassins work and the Reapers don't work is that the Assassins really are what the Reapers only claim to be. They're completely superior to organic life, and utterly uninterested in it until it develops to a point where it might interfere with their long-term plans for the universe. So they wipe out any race that gets to that point, the way we'd exterminate an ant colony if it set up in our kitchen. Nothing against ants, but they don't get to make problems for us. The idea of actually fighting the Assassins is idiotic, and Pohl actually makes fun of it (picture ME as written by a pacifist). they should have cribbed more off of Saberhagen But at any rate, his is why I think it was a mistake to reveal the Reapers' motives at all. Let us be puzzled by whatever alien rationalization they have. be they operating on a level or morality we don't understand, or they're just broken machines, or they're just bat-sh*t crazy. they are aliens, after all. Revealing their motive removes their mystique.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 30, 2017 1:51:57 GMT
I would have hated that, myself. OTOH, it may have been the best available option anyway.
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Post by Eshaye on Sept 30, 2017 2:05:59 GMT
^ This. We are not getting a sequel. If there's another Mass effect you can bet it will be back in the Milky Way or something totally different. IF and that's a big IF. I hope you all like Anthem.... They aren't that stupid and they never once said a sequel was out of the question. I was just at the Edmonton Expo booth asking them that very question. I was told that in the opinion of a dev (this is NOT official by any means) that at this point because of the Montreal studio being dismantled to not expect another Mass Effect, let alone an Andromeda sequel. The focus right now is Anthem and depending on how well it does, THEN Bioware will take another look at Mass Effect. But the original idea was ot have the Montreal studio helm Mass Effect with it's DLCs and sequels. That's not happening. So we have to hope Edmonton wants to make more, and Casey Hudson has that one tweet stating he DOES want to go there again. But it's not going to be any day soon, IF it happens.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Sept 30, 2017 2:24:35 GMT
They aren't that stupid and they never once said a sequel was out of the question. I was just at the Edmonton Expo booth asking them that very question. I was told that in the opinion of a dev (this is NOT official by any means) that at this point because of the Montreal studio being dismantled to not expect another Mass Effect, let alone an Andromeda sequel. The focus right now is Anthem and depending on how well it does, THEN Bioware will take another look at Mass Effect. But the original idea was ot have the Montreal studio helm Mass Effect with it's DLCs and sequels. That's not happening. So we have to hope Edmonton wants to make more, and Casey Hudson has that one tweet stating he DOES want to go there again. But it's not going to be any day soon, IF it happens. Welp, at least there is DA4 and DA in general.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 4:19:38 GMT
And turning Wrex v2 Drack, Liara v2 Peebee, Kaidan v2 Cora, Garrus v2 Vetra, Joker v2 Kallo into copies of their Milky Way counterparts is what? Savvy?
As MEA 2 happening or not, don't know. They said Aliens would end in the third movie, but we had the fourth after some years. In this industry promises don't carry much weight, if people are willing to watch or buy their product they will make a second version no matter what.
And probably we will work with the kett now... you know... a plot never done before...
My main thing with going back to the Milky Way again, is that you'll be back with Shepard, his crew, the Reapers (or the aftermath), etc in some way. Would be my guess. I wouldn't say I'm sick of it, but those things were already wrapped up. It would be doing the same thing again that I did for 3 games with the same people (more or less, maybe some new ones, but if it was a direct sequel, then yes, it would be the same). Not sure why they would go back there though. Unless the game isn't related to the trilogy, but set in the Milky Way. However, it seems I've read prequels aren't very popular. People wanted a sequel to ME3. They could have always waited until after making Anthem to make Andromeda. Oh well. I don't see how it is one of the worst endings in video game history, but to each their own. Andromeda wasn't made to sidestep a sequel to ME3. It was to preserve the Milky Way, in case Shepard failed to destroy them at the end of ME3. A plan B of sorts. I don't really see the point of a ME3 sequel. It would essentially be dealing with the aftermath of the Reaper war. A whole game dedicated to closure, and doesn't really fit into a plot diagram very well. Closure is supposed to come at the end of something, not devoting an entire game sequel to it. The Extended Cut was effectively that closure.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 4:48:56 GMT
But without the 'resources' reason, why on earth did they go (or what reason did they give the volunteers)? Exploration? I honestly can't remember if it was mentioned. With less than 1% of the MW explored the exploration justification just doesn't cut it. I'll give you a choice of two expeditions, one is going to Andromeda with an untested drive system and untested cryogenics, if you should survive the trip, everyone you know will be long dead and if something goes wrong you have no way of ever returning... or you could explore the Perseus arm, see new sights, find new alien species, come back in 3 years, probably very wealthy from the data and new discoveries you bring back... It just boggles the mind why they didn't make the AI a response to the Reaper threat. It explains everything from the reason for going to the poor planning and oversight on recruitment and has no practical drawbacks to the story. MEA has many problems but this isn't quite one of them
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Post by brfritos on Sept 30, 2017 7:57:43 GMT
And turning Wrex v2 Drack, Liara v2 Peebee, Kaidan v2 Cora, Garrus v2 Vetra, Joker v2 Kallo into copies of their Milky Way counterparts is what? Savvy? As MEA 2 happening or not, don't know. They said Aliens would end in the third movie, but we had the fourth after some years. In this industry promises don't carry much weight, if people are willing to watch or buy their product they will make a second version no matter what.
And probably we will work with the kett now... you know... a plot never done before... My main thing with going back to the Milky Way again, is that you'll be back with Shepard, his crew, the Reapers (or the aftermath), etc in some way. Would be my guess. I wouldn't say I'm sick of it, but those things were already wrapped up. It would be doing the same thing again that I did for 3 games with the same people (more or less, maybe some new ones, but if it was a direct sequel, then yes, it would be the same). Not sure why they would go back there though. Unless the game isn't related to the trilogy, but set in the Milky Way. However, it seems I've read prequels aren't very popular. People wanted a sequel to ME3. I've already discussed this type of thing in the ME3 section, about a ME4 sequel. I don't think the problem is the Milky Way or anything like that. In fact, I would love to see the state of the Milky Way after the war with the reapers. There's one thing a lot of fans still don't realize even to this day: ME has a cannon story.Sure, we love to talk about our decisions and our relationships with other NPCs throughout the games and we should in fact, because this is a strength of the ME frenchise, not a weakness. But since Bioware never addressed this and always hammered the "it's the player's story" motto, when we talk about default decisions some people become offended or think is a sacrilege. Like for example the fact that liking it or not, Wrex is dead in the ME universe. As well the rachini queen also. Both of them killed by Shepard, our great hero/heroine btw. I can say that in my game they are not, sure, but did someone tried to play the games without a save file import or Genesis comic intro? That's the default decision in ME2 and ME3, when new players were introduced to the frenchise that's what they've encountered at first.
And I recommend playing those games without a save game import because there's a lot of dialog and situation changes and some of them are very good, sometimes even better than when importing a save game. I have a very clear picture of the default decisions in ME4. Shepard is dead and regarded by some as a true hero/heroine, while for others a bastard/bitch; the Crucible was used to destroy the reapers; Shepard probably sabotaged the Genophage, so the krogans hate us humans now too along with the turians and salarians; the quarians commited genocide killed the geth; the asari fate are unknown, but you have endless possibilities with them. The rest are the writer's decision. The question: is there a problem with this? The default decisions? Or the fact the game has a cannon story with cannon decisions? We can do better than what was presented in MEA. MEA is not a bad game per se. It's engaging, has a somewhat weak story and a lot of railroading, has good, decent and awful characters like every story in the world and some very cool moments. But as a ME's universe game, it's weak. As for the problems with prequels, it's not they are bad, it's they've always end being a reboot or a bastardization of the original material. Do you hear me Alien Convenant? Take STTNG for example. You can see similarities with the original series and you can relate some characters to their original counterparts, but for the most part they are original and have their own story and strenght. Or Voyager, which happens to work more or less like MEA happens, following the same timeline, with the same related material but in a different direction. Voyager took a different approach to the frenchise, but regardless personal opinion about it, it doesn't play safe with the ST universe and at the same time don't subvert or alter the timeline it belongs. And Voyager is TON ahead of his time. On the other hand look what they did with ST Enterprise. That is not even close. Nobody is as annoying as Kaiden and none of those people are clones not even close. As to working with the Kett yesh no not happening. Of course not, Cora is nothing like Kaidan. Like for example playing the "good pal" all the time. Hey, her mentor only passed her promotion to Pathfinder to his son or daughter, but it's ok, let's all be friends, "we're the world", "let's give peace a chance". It's totally believable. I would liked more if Cora behave like a human being and questioned Ryder's decisions actually. And again we are back to the main problem of MEA: playing safe with the story.
Krogan females have faces like fish now? But I liked her voice. Yes, I trully liked.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 15:58:47 GMT
Download the Extended Cut.
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mannyray on Sept 30, 2017 17:03:28 GMT
Of course not, Cora is nothing like Kaidan. Like for example playing the "good pal" all the time. Hey, her mentor only passed her promotion to Pathfinder to his son or daughter, but it's ok, let's all be friends, "we're the world", "let's give peace a chance". It's totally believable.I would liked more if Cora behave like a human being and questioned Ryder's decisions actually. And again we are back to the main problem of MEA: playing safe with the story.
Krogan females have faces like fish now? But I liked her voice. Yes, I trully liked.
The master writers here keep forgetting obvious plot points like Ryder was going do die within minutes, which is the reason Alec sacrificed himself. But hey the game triggered so let's make up more "alternative facts." Beyond that I do agree there should have been more real conflict over direction between Ryder and Cora. This was another missed opportunity to force Ryder to grow out of the "preciously awkward social gimp" that some fans think is realistic.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Oct 1, 2017 3:11:00 GMT
The whole premise of MEA is more painful and illogical than the ME3 ending, I don't see why we can't go back to the Milky Way? More things to do there than Andromeda and that's a fact I say.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 1, 2017 4:45:42 GMT
The whole premise of MEA is more painful and illogical than the ME3 ending, I don't see why we can't go back to the Milky Way? More things to do there than Andromeda and that's a fact I say. That doesn't really make any sense. There's as much to do as the writers/devs feel fit to include. So let's say that there was another game set in the Milky Way. They could either write the entire setting to be restored to its former glory, or they could confine the entire story to an isolated corner of the galaxy, cut off because the mass relay network is kaput, seemingly for good.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Oct 1, 2017 5:16:02 GMT
The whole premise of MEA is more painful and illogical than the ME3 ending, I don't see why we can't go back to the Milky Way? More things to do there than Andromeda and that's a fact I say. That doesn't really make any sense. There's as much to do as the writers/devs feel fit to include. So let's say that there was another game set in the Milky Way. They could either write the entire setting to be restored to its former glory, or they could confine the entire story to an isolated corner of the galaxy, cut off because the mass relay network is kaput, seemingly for good. >there's as much to do as the writers/devs feel fit to include There isn't though since there are no mass relays in Andromeda and there are under 100k Milky Way individuals >they can either confine or restore the Milky Way galaxy Please reread my original post.
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