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Post by ariatloak on Aug 20, 2017 4:49:36 GMT
If MEA was released as patch 10 version - so with the animations pretty much completely addressed but the same basic issues (which you may or may not have) existing with writing, characters and story - would we still be in the same position today?
While I found the animation memes funny, I do consider them extremely low on my prorities, and was much more disappointed by other things that did not make MEA into a laughing stock the same way the hilaribad gifs did. It seems to me like that particular strain of backlash, which was very unforgiving and meme-focused, really posioned the well.
On the other hand, MEA clearly had an extremely chaotic development cycle, and we know now the Montreal Motive merger was planned, almost certainly long in advance. It's certainly possible that, short of critcial acclaim and a huge financial windfall, dlc was unlikely and they knew that from the begining.
We will never know the full extent of which factors determined what, but I'm interested to hear how much blame people lay at the feet of that initial, quite superficial backlash - because we know the game was at least moderately financially successful, and the reviews certainly weren't DIRE - they averaged in the 70s, not the 50s
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Post by decafhigh on Aug 20, 2017 4:53:41 GMT
I would say so. The animations made for some nice memes and should have made the developers embarrassed to have released the game in that condition, but it isn't the sort of thing that gets your studio shuttered and the series put on indefinite hiatus. Animations weren't the bulk of MEAs problems, just one of the most cringeworthy.
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Post by laudable11 on Aug 20, 2017 4:56:24 GMT
It's because of the awful story and amateurish fan fiction tier writing.
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ariatloak
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Post by ariatloak on Aug 20, 2017 4:58:09 GMT
It's because of the awful story and amateurish fan fiction tier writing. I agree that the story is terrible, but I've read a lot of fan fiction significantly better written then MEA. If anything, bioware is quite adept at the fanservice-y, funny, character driven writing you would expect to find in fan fiction (think the citadel dlc, lots of da2 banter) but MEA did not have very much of it.
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Post by Steelcan on Aug 20, 2017 4:58:49 GMT
I don't think so. the game failed on several levels besides technical
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Post by isaidlunch on Aug 20, 2017 5:01:12 GMT
It might have been bumped up up to around ~80 in metacritic, but people would've turned on the game anyway. Many players don't find the characters, story or open-world gameplay interesting.
The game was doomed to be mediocre.
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Post by ariatloak on Aug 20, 2017 5:01:51 GMT
I would say so. The animations made for some nice memes and should have made the developers embarrassed to have released the game in that condition, but it isn't the sort of thing that gets your studio shuttered and the series put on indefinite hiatus. Animations weren't the bulk of MEAs problems, just one of the most cringeworthy. I agree, and think ultimately the blame lies with the fact people obviously lost their jobs over how much disarray the support studio was in making such a huge game. But I do question if they'd really cut the plug so dramatically had it not been for that two week or so period where every article abt mea was 'mea looks hilariously bad' and almost entirely about the animations. If you asked someone who didn't play it but followed games vaugely about it they'd say "oh right, the one with the god-awful animations right?" And I think becoming a laughing stock prior to release had a pretty bad impact. It also stole absolutely all their launch thunder. But no, it shouldn't have been enough to cause a (I think temporary) shutdown of the franchise.
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 20, 2017 5:02:34 GMT
People need to stop acting like animations was the only thing wrong with the game.
Put MEA in the rear view mirror and hope DA4 is better.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 20, 2017 5:02:42 GMT
I don't think animations are solely to blame, but it definitely started the fire. It was an easy target and something that was readily identifiable as being "wrong" with the game. It also didn't help that most of the gaming media and YouTube personalities were jumping on the bandwagon in order to get higher viewership for bigger gains in revenue.
It was a snowball effect that culminated into the game's rocky early access and underwhelming reviews. In many ways, Andromeda was the perfect example of a marketing campaign and release gone entirely wrong. It's really a shame, because it prevented many from seeing that the game, itself, was actually really good. It was definitely rough around the edges, but I certainly didn't regret playing it.
At the very least, I hope BioWare learns from this and never suffers through this kind of messy development cycle in the future.
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Post by 10k on Aug 20, 2017 5:03:05 GMT
Just like ME3 ending; Andromeda's animations weren't the only thing wrong with the game. Characters were blatant rehashes of the OT characters, the story was dull, the tone was disjointed at times, and dialogue was cringe worthy in many conversations. Andromeda felt like a poorly written fanfiction.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 5:09:39 GMT
people did not like what the game had to offer. It's a complex project and it failed to resonate with the majority. A fate of a work of art is fickle, and Andromeda was born unlucky. Oddballs like me loved it, but you can't make enough money off the oddballs. You have to please the majority, and gods only know what they want.
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Post by Steelcan on Aug 20, 2017 5:12:24 GMT
people did not like what the game had to offer. It's a complex project and it failed to resonate with the majority. A fate of a work of art is fickle, and Andromeda was born unlucky. Oddballs like me loved it, but you can't make enough money off the oddballs. You have to please the majority.... there is a such thing as niche products, ME has never been one though
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 5:16:23 GMT
people did not like what the game had to offer. It's a complex project and it failed to resonate with the majority. A fate of a work of art is fickle, and Andromeda was born unlucky. Oddballs like me loved it, but you can't make enough money off the oddballs. You have to please the majority.... there is a such thing as niche products, ME has never been one though Unfortunately, niche products can only make money with low budget productions, which in the gaming world apparently means isometric games. It's actually surprising to me that ME even went mainstream when I think of the game. It is quirky and nerdy, but I guess Shepard exuded enough appeal to make him universally compelling or something. well, zut, time to learn 2 love Dragon Age.... that one at least appeals to everyone and their uncle.
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Post by Steelcan on Aug 20, 2017 5:19:38 GMT
there is a such thing as niche products, ME has never been one though Unfortunately, niche products can only make money with low budget productions, which in the gaming world apparently means isometric games. It's actually surprising to me that ME even went mainstream when I think of the game. It is quirky and nerdy, but I guess Shepard exuded enough appeal to make him universally compelling or something. well, zut, time to learn 2 love Dragon Age.... there's nothing in ME that is out of place in the video game culture, its not an overt number crunch, its not isometric, its got nothing on the complexity of pen and paper inspired RPG's.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 5:23:20 GMT
Unfortunately, niche products can only make money with low budget productions, which in the gaming world apparently means isometric games. It's actually surprising to me that ME even went mainstream when I think of the game. It is quirky and nerdy, but I guess Shepard exuded enough appeal to make him universally compelling or something. well, zut, time to learn 2 love Dragon Age.... there's nothing in ME that is out of place in the video game culture, its not an overt number crunch, its not isometric, its got nothing on the complexity of pen and paper inspired RPG's. The first one was pretty convoluted though, and even Shepard did not have the glorious magnetism he aquired later on. Oh, well, we got 4 games out of it, that's pretty good.
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ariatloak
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Post by ariatloak on Aug 20, 2017 5:24:15 GMT
I don't see ME or DA as particularly niche. I think DAI is probably the most niche game of the lot because I find it hard to imagine enjoying it without a significant investment in the lore and characters like Hawke and Morrigan. But DAO is your standard fantasy fare that's only limited in playability due to its shoddy graphics and gameplay, but as accessible as game of thrones or lotr or whatever. And the ME trilogy is fairly straightforward.
I think MEA is definitely a game where you have to be a specific kind of person to enjoy it, which can't have helped.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 5:31:00 GMT
I don't see ME or DA as particularly niche. I think DAI is probably the most niche game of the lot because I find it hard to imagine enjoying it without a significant investment in the lore and characters like Hawke and Morrigan. But DAO is your standard fantasy fare that's only limited in playability due to its shoddy graphics and gameplay, but as accessible as game of thrones or lotr or whatever. And the ME trilogy is fairly straightforward. I think MEA is definitely a game where you have to be a specific kind of person to enjoy it, which can't have helped. Ah, anything with dwarves and elves in not-your-olde-medieval-England is now mainstream, 'cause Tolkien. Sci-if is a harder sell, because it has less repetitive elements. Though maybe it is with "humans from Earth colonized space in their spaceships..." frankly, I can't see where Andromeda failed vs ME when it made its first entry, but fail it did, more the pity. Anthem definetly looks mainstream. The powersuits are all over the place now, you can't spit w/o hitting one. So, hopefully, the majority will be happy. Or as happy as Internet is capable of, lol.
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Post by sil on Aug 20, 2017 8:22:39 GMT
I felt the animations weren't so bad, but the PR issue of the animations was not what Bioware needed just prior to launching the game. I'm certain it played a major impact, and the media are a major reason for that. They fuelled the fire, and in turn, I think it's led to Andromeda getting shafted. Though saying that, I feel the whole trans outcry and gay romance outcry also led to a PR disaster of sorts, and the game itself wasn't as great as it could've been. I thoroughly enjoyed the game, but it feels incomplete.
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Post by Croatsky on Aug 20, 2017 9:04:33 GMT
No, it was all because BioWare Montreal management was incompetent and lacked vision. And also because BioWare Edmonton doesn't give a shit for Mass Effect anymore.
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 20, 2017 9:10:15 GMT
No. The critisism was necessary and valid, and it's not the first time Bioware has had to fix issues with a game, but it's one of the most controversial.
Whatever the issues are I suspect they are multiple, but the fault doesn't lie with honest critique of the game.
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 20, 2017 9:16:32 GMT
Unlikely. To me it looks like SP DLC was never planned, and that decision was probably made before the game's release, so fan and critic reactions merely confirmed it but didn't cause it.
EA probably took a hard look at the game's troubled development and decided they didn't want another "finance 5 years of development and get 18 months worth out of it" adventure.
If Anthem takes off as they hope it will probably their new setting for single player games too, if they're still going to make any, that is.
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Post by ProbeAway on Aug 20, 2017 9:19:17 GMT
In hindsight I don't think the EA bigwigs were really convinced Andromeda would be a big success. Giving it to a B team and getting their top studio to focus on Anthem says to me they weren't planning to bankroll a big DLC budget. No doubt they were aware of the development issues years ago, which probably had them looking at the Montreal-EA Motive merger well before release.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 9:22:43 GMT
In hindsight I don't think the EA bigwigs were really convinced Andromeda would be a big success. Giving it to a B team and getting their top studio to focus on Anthem says to me they weren't planning to bankroll a big DLC budget. No doubt they were aware of the development issues years ago, which probably had them looking at the Montreal-EA Motive merger well before release. Agreed the animations were the cherry on the top of a much larger and systemic issue. It almost appears that due to the troubled development EA lost confidence in its Montreal team and therefore committed less resources for MEA development thus diminishing the risk at the cost of the overall quality at release.
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Post by ProbeAway on Aug 20, 2017 9:50:51 GMT
In hindsight I don't think the EA bigwigs were really convinced Andromeda would be a big success. Giving it to a B team and getting their top studio to focus on Anthem says to me they weren't planning to bankroll a big DLC budget. No doubt they were aware of the development issues years ago, which probably had them looking at the Montreal-EA Motive merger well before release. Agreed the animations were the cherry on the top of a much larger and systemic issue. It almost appears that due to the troubled development EA lost confidence in its Montreal team and therefore committed less resources for MEA development thus diminishing the risk at the cost of the overall quality at release. You may well be right, especially if they started out treating it as less of a priority than Anthem anyway.
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Post by abaris on Aug 20, 2017 10:01:31 GMT
If MEA was released as patch 10 version - so with the animations pretty much completely addressed but the same basic issues (which you may or may not have) existing with writing, characters and story - would we still be in the same position today? For me it wouldn't have changed a thing. I was certain that they would take care of the bugs, glitches and animations. But they couldn't patch story, companions and lead character. That's what failed to draw me in. A first with any Bioware game, where I always felt the urge to start over once I finished a game. Not with this one.
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