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Post by griffith82 on Aug 22, 2017 20:52:50 GMT
If you had been around in the old forums back when the trilogy was still fresh it was constantly getting trashed by these same people and the trilogy was constantly getting 9s in it's review scores. People really do have something against space operas. I don't get it, it is a great fictional genre. People don't have an issues with space operas, they have issues with turning a series that was built on a strong story and characters, to a series that's sole focus is fucking aliens and pushing liberal values, story be damned. They also have issues with overall quality going into the shitter.
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Post by danishgambit on Aug 22, 2017 20:54:22 GMT
Without the goodwill that DA2's DLC generated, DAI would have been in a much weaker position. By either luck or good judgment, they pulled off a GOTY. But it was still their first Frostbite outing, and had PS3/XB360 had better recording facilities, there could have been plenty of memes had people been more pissed. They ducked a bullet. I think we all know that those last gen ports never should have happened though.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 22, 2017 20:55:58 GMT
Without the goodwill that DA2's DLC generated, DAI would have been in a much weaker position. By either luck or good judgment, they pulled off a GOTY. But it was still their first Frostbite outing, and had PS3/XB360 had better recording facilities, there could have been plenty of memes had people been more pissed. They ducked a bullet. I think we all know that those last gen ports never should have happened though. Shit thats what the 360 and ps3 versions look like?
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Post by MattMan031 on Aug 22, 2017 20:59:46 GMT
I do blame the derpy internet meme loving hate brigade. They have had this franchise in their crosshairs for a very long time. You can see some of them in this very thread posting their idiotic memes. They hate the idea of a space opera RPG franchise existing in the first place. They were determined to hate anything this franchise did back when we were referring to it as ME Next on the old forums before we knew anything about MEA.
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Post by danishgambit on Aug 22, 2017 21:05:12 GMT
Except it is the fans fault. Sure it wasn't perfect at launch it was "ok" then it became great. The issue is fans who didn't get their happy ending were determined to see it fail. Nah... The ending was just poorly written unless you want to explain the magical ray gun that can alter living DNA and make robots into humans with "human essence" whatever the hell that is... I mean you can't even do that with Dragon Age Lore... But ok that ending has been beaten like a dead horse and there's no reason to go over it yet again lol... Or maybe you can explain the terrible decisions made by a wholly superior species? Ok I said I'd stop. I should stop lol...
But anyway, while there are surely some folks who might think Mass Effect was great, plenty of people think it wasn't really great at all... I've played ME1 and ME2 a lot of times and it was even more fun with mods. I can't make myself boot up ME3 again and believe me, the ending is on the bottom of a very long list of reasons why I can't be arsed to play that game again. ME1 is my favorite by far but I'm sure the clunky gameplay keeps a lot of people from wanting to play that game again. Mass Effect was a lot of fun for sure but I don't know how great it's been. ME2 I think was the best one even though Andromeda's gameplay is obviously better.
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Post by danishgambit on Aug 22, 2017 21:05:56 GMT
I think we all know that those last gen ports never should have happened though. Shit thats what the 360 and ps3 versions look like? This isn't even close to the worst of it.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Aug 22, 2017 21:09:47 GMT
I do blame the derpy internet meme loving hate brigade. They have had this franchise in their crosshairs for a very long time. You can see some of them in this very thread posting their idiotic memes. They hate the idea of a space opera RPG franchise existing in the first place. They were determined to hate anything this franchise did back when we were referring to it as ME Next on the old forums before we knew anything about MEA. You just had to go the meme route.
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Post by BadgerladDK on Aug 22, 2017 21:15:59 GMT
Without the goodwill that DA2's DLC generated, DAI would have been in a much weaker position. By either luck or good judgment, they pulled off a GOTY. But it was still their first Frostbite outing, and had PS3/XB360 had better recording facilities, there could have been plenty of memes had people been more pissed. They ducked a bullet. Wow, nice helmet... is that DLC?
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Post by MattMan031 on Aug 22, 2017 21:22:43 GMT
You just had to go the meme route. Best route there is, mate.
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Post by abaris on Aug 22, 2017 21:24:21 GMT
Best route there is, mate. Best route is ignoring the bait. That's really all the attention it deserves.
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Post by Steelcan on Aug 22, 2017 21:29:04 GMT
I mean we all know DA:I got GOTY awards because it came out in a super weak year all around
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Post by MattMan031 on Aug 22, 2017 21:30:08 GMT
Best route there is, mate. Best route is ignoring the bait. That's really all the attention it deserves. Okay.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 22, 2017 22:15:24 GMT
Shit thats what the 360 and ps3 versions look like? This isn't even close to the worst of it. At least the pc doesn't look like that.
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Post by abaris on Aug 22, 2017 22:19:04 GMT
I mean we all know DA:I got GOTY awards because it came out in a super weak year all around That's an urban legend. The year wasn't as weak as some people make it out to be. Not everyone's cup of tea, but Larian published Divinity Original Sin that same year.
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Post by uberlurker on Aug 22, 2017 22:23:56 GMT
I mean we all know DA:I got GOTY awards because it came out in a super weak year all around Bayonetta 2 was robbed. Robbed!
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Post by traks on Aug 22, 2017 22:34:47 GMT
Depends on what you mean with "blame for this mess". Blaming fans for the quality of MEA? Definitely not, that's all on BioWare and many players thinking that it is not good enough for Mass Effect is fine. But if we never get another Mass Effect game, surely some blame has to go to so-called "fans", because death threats after ME3 or in general blind hate after the release of MEA instead of constructive criticism just might not be worth it for a developer to continue the franchise.I hope they can black the unnecessary stuff out and listen to the warranted criticism and return to the series with a bang, but who knows that right now? Maybe if the ongoing support of Anthem goes over to Austin to replace SWTOR at some point, Edmonton can return to make DA and ME games, but if not: where do the resources come from to make a new ME game if a loud web mob lets it sound as if the series isn't well received anymore? I keep seeing people say this, but then Dragon Age 2 immediately comes to mind. That game got a ton of criticism and hate and yet it still got DLC and a sequel. No Man's Sky released in an even worse state than Andromeda and got tons of criticism, hate, and death threats no doubt, and yet they are still supporting their game. Why is MEA different that people think that fan reactions are what determines whether or not a game gets DLC or a sequel. I mean, this is EA. I'd imagine if the game made boatloads of cash, they'd make DLC regardless of what people on the Internet said. So first of all: just because developers have overcome hate tirades in the past, it makes it OK to go on such tirades? Very weak argument. But you should follow the full argument before even countering it with such a weak one. Mass Effect is not at the same point, No Man's Sky or Dragon Age 2 were. We are not talking about the first or second game in a grand scheme, we are talking here about a fourth game after one of the biggest outcries the gaming industry has seen with Mass Effect 3s endings. So ME as a franchise is at a boiling point right now. If then an internet overreaction leads to another outcry, which in turn leads to less sales, which in turn leads to people losing their jobs and a whole BioWare studio being merged with another EA studio, it doesn't make any sense to say: well, other games have overcome overreactions of an idiot crowd. As I said before in this thread: this time there is reason to worry about BioWare and Casey Hudson being able to talk EA into another Mass Effect game. Why should a publisher make resources and funds available if the atmosphere around a franchise is toxic? An overreaction in this case is not something to just be whatever about. In this case it makes it extremely hard for BioWare to keep Mass Effect going.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 22:39:33 GMT
Hmm, given that the ending to ME:3 ignited an unprecedented shitstorm from which the IP may never recover, I wouldn't be so confident in describing those noisy naysayers as being a 'minority'. True enough, but after 5 years and the Citadel dlc, I think most were willing to give MEA a shot. Undoubtedly some were going to hate no matter what, though Nope. Would not have bought the game regardless.
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Post by dazzarlok on Aug 22, 2017 22:46:22 GMT
I keep seeing people say this, but then Dragon Age 2 immediately comes to mind. That game got a ton of criticism and hate and yet it still got DLC and a sequel. No Man's Sky released in an even worse state than Andromeda and got tons of criticism, hate, and death threats no doubt, and yet they are still supporting their game. Why is MEA different that people think that fan reactions are what determines whether or not a game gets DLC or a sequel. I mean, this is EA. I'd imagine if the game made boatloads of cash, they'd make DLC regardless of what people on the Internet said. So first of all: just because developers have overcome hate tirades in the past, it makes it OK to go on such tirades? Very weak argument.But you should follow the full argument before even countering it with such a weak one. Mass Effect is not at the same point, No Man's Sky or Dragon Age 2 were. We are not talking about the first or second game in a grand scheme, we are talking here about a fourth game after one of the biggest outcries the gaming industry has seen with Mass Effect 3s endings. So ME as a franchise is at a boiling point right now. If then an internet overreaction leads to another outcry, which in turn leads to less sales, which in turn leads to people losing their jobs and a whole BioWare studio being merged with another EA studio, it doesn't make any sense to say: well, other games have overcome overreactions of an idiot crowd. As I said before in this thread: this time there is reason to worry about BioWare and Casey Hudson being able to talk EA into another Mass Effect game. Why should a publisher make resources and funds available if the atmosphere around a franchise is toxic? An overreaction in this case is not something to just be whatever about. In this case it makes it extremely hard for BioWare to keep Mass Effect going. Ok, first off, I'm gonna stop you right there. Did I EVER say that tirades or anything like that were ok? No, I didn't! Not even close. I'm not sure where the heck you got that idea from. All I'm saying is that this is not the first time in EA's or other video game developers history that their games were subject to hate, memes, etc, yet the game developers continued to support their games despite all that, especially if said game made money.
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Post by traks on Aug 22, 2017 22:56:22 GMT
So first of all: just because developers have overcome hate tirades in the past, it makes it OK to go on such tirades? Very weak argument.But you should follow the full argument before even countering it with such a weak one. Mass Effect is not at the same point, No Man's Sky or Dragon Age 2 were. We are not talking about the first or second game in a grand scheme, we are talking here about a fourth game after one of the biggest outcries the gaming industry has seen with Mass Effect 3s endings. So ME as a franchise is at a boiling point right now. If then an internet overreaction leads to another outcry, which in turn leads to less sales, which in turn leads to people losing their jobs and a whole BioWare studio being merged with another EA studio, it doesn't make any sense to say: well, other games have overcome overreactions of an idiot crowd. As I said before in this thread: this time there is reason to worry about BioWare and Casey Hudson being able to talk EA into another Mass Effect game. Why should a publisher make resources and funds available if the atmosphere around a franchise is toxic? An overreaction in this case is not something to just be whatever about. In this case it makes it extremely hard for BioWare to keep Mass Effect going. Ok, first off, I'm gonna stop you right there. Did I EVER say that tirades or anything like that were ok? No, I didn't! Not even close. I'm not sure where the heck you got that idea from. All I'm saying is that this is not the first time in EA's or other video game developers history that their games were subject to hate, memes, etc, yet the game developers continued to support their games despite all that, especially if said game made money. That's good to know that we agree, that hate tirades aren't OK. Secondly: you say "especially if said game made money". That's exactly the point here. An overreaction to the game likely has hurt sales, which is the reason for BioWare Montreal not belonging to BioWare anymore and the decision not to make any DLCs. The game didn't sell well enough and I'm saying part of the reason is a toxic atmosphere around ME. Doesn't mean that BioWare shouldn't have been extra careful with this game in its development - which they haven't been - but it also doesn't mean that if we never get another ME game that we don't have to thank the mob mentality partly for this with its bashing of ME since 2012. Just because it is the Internet people are still responsible for what they say and too much of an unwarranted bad rap definitely can kill a franchise.
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Post by dazzarlok on Aug 22, 2017 23:05:55 GMT
Ok, first off, I'm gonna stop you right there. Did I EVER say that tirades or anything like that were ok? No, I didn't! Not even close. I'm not sure where the heck you got that idea from. All I'm saying is that this is not the first time in EA's or other video game developers history that their games were subject to hate, memes, etc, yet the game developers continued to support their games despite all that, especially if said game made money. That's good to know that we agree, that hate tirades aren't OK. Secondly: you say "especially if said game made money". That's exactly the point here. An overreaction to the game likely has hurt sales, which is the reason for BioWare Montreal not belonging to BioWare anymore and the decision not to make any DLCs. The game didn't sell well enough and I'm saying part of the reason is a toxic atmosphere around ME. Doesn't mean that BioWare shouldn't have been extra careful with this game in its development - which they haven't been - but it also doesn't mean that if we never get another ME game that we don't have to thank the mob mentality partly for this with its bashing of ME since 2012. Just because it is the Internet people are still responsible for what they say and too much of an unwarranted bad rap definitely can kill a franchise. I don't think anyone here said that hate tirades are ok, so why you would think that that's what I was saying in my first post just boggles my mind, I'm still confused as to how you came to that conclusion. Also, I hope you know there's a difference between hate tirades and criticism though. And you're saying the game didn't sell well enough, but that's not true according to EA, as many people on this very forum are so keen to point out when someone comes along and says the game is a failure.
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Post by traks on Aug 22, 2017 23:22:45 GMT
That's good to know that we agree, that hate tirades aren't OK. Secondly: you say "especially if said game made money". That's exactly the point here. An overreaction to the game likely has hurt sales, which is the reason for BioWare Montreal not belonging to BioWare anymore and the decision not to make any DLCs. The game didn't sell well enough and I'm saying part of the reason is a toxic atmosphere around ME. Doesn't mean that BioWare shouldn't have been extra careful with this game in its development - which they haven't been - but it also doesn't mean that if we never get another ME game that we don't have to thank the mob mentality partly for this with its bashing of ME since 2012. Just because it is the Internet people are still responsible for what they say and too much of an unwarranted bad rap definitely can kill a franchise. I don't think anyone here said that hate tirades are ok, so why you would think that that's what I was saying in my first post just boggles my mind, I'm still confused as to how you came to that conclusion. Also, I hope you know there's a difference between hate tirades and criticism though. And you're saying the game didn't sell well enough, but that's not true according to EA, as many people on this very forum are so keen to point out when someone comes along and says the game is a failure. 1) I took your sentence - "No Man's Sky released in an even worse state than Andromeda and got tons of criticism, hate, and death threats no doubt, and yet they are still supporting their game." - and came to the wrong conclusion. To me it sounded like: "it's not that bad, it's just the Internet". My mistake, but no biggie - I hope. Mistake understood. 2) The very post of mine you quoted, states that "I hope they can black the unnecessary stuff out and listen to the warranted criticism." So I do exactly know the difference. Why do you ask? 3) The studio that made the game doesn't belong to BioWare anymore, people lost their BioWare jobs over MEA and there is no DLC. Simple math says: the game didn't sell as well as it should have (in EAs eyes) to develop more of ME now.
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Post by Guts on Aug 22, 2017 23:31:47 GMT
I don't think anyone here said that hate tirades are ok, so why you would think that that's what I was saying in my first post just boggles my mind, I'm still confused as to how you came to that conclusion. Also, I hope you know there's a difference between hate tirades and criticism though. And you're saying the game didn't sell well enough, but that's not true according to EA, as many people on this very forum are so keen to point out when someone comes along and says the game is a failure. 1) I took your sentence - "No Man's Sky released in an even worse state than Andromeda and got tons of criticism, hate, and death threats no doubt, and yet they are still supporting their game." - and came to the wrong conclusion. To me it sounded like: "it's not that bad, it's just the Internet". My mistake, but no biggie - I hope. Mistake understood. 2) The very post of mine you quoted, states that "I hope they can black the unnecessary stuff out and listen to the warranted criticism." So I do exactly know the difference. Why do you ask? 3) The studio that made the game doesn't belong to BioWare anymore, people lost their BioWare jobs over MEA and there is no DLC. Simple math says: the game didn't sell as well as it should have (in EAs eyes) to develop more of ME now. I for one, applaud Hello Games for continuing to work on their game despite the fact that it was one of the biggest disappointments of 2016, perhaps of all video game history, as well as all the broken promises. The bad news is, for a lot of people, the damage has already been done, and there's nothing anyone can do about that.
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Post by clips7 on Aug 22, 2017 23:36:04 GMT
I didn't read through the first seven pages, so I will probably just end up saying something that reflects other member's thought patterns. We all know about the memes that came out during the early launch of the game....that hurt, but again if the story and characters was compelling, that would not have been an issue. I look at a game like Fallout 3, that game has horrible frame rates and animations, but the story and journey was interesting...even with the crashing that occurs at certain parts of the game...and i'm speaking from experience with the PS3.
So idk....you had folks on youtube that was just being jerks about it on some level, but most respected review sites all pointed to the characters and story lacking....so idk...EA stated that game sold well and i'm assuming it sold well enough for them to state it in their fiscal report, because I assume they wouldn't lie to their shareholders about how the game performed, so maybe the game did sell well but it did not meet it's projected numbers...
Nobody should be blaming the fans for the outcome of Andromeda....the game should not have been released in the state it was in, and there was other pressing issues other than the animation and glitching issues.
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Post by dazzarlok on Aug 22, 2017 23:40:21 GMT
I don't think anyone here said that hate tirades are ok, so why you would think that that's what I was saying in my first post just boggles my mind, I'm still confused as to how you came to that conclusion. Also, I hope you know there's a difference between hate tirades and criticism though. And you're saying the game didn't sell well enough, but that's not true according to EA, as many people on this very forum are so keen to point out when someone comes along and says the game is a failure. 1) I took your sentence - "No Man's Sky released in an even worse state than Andromeda and got tons of criticism, hate, and death threats no doubt, and yet they are still supporting their game." - and came to the wrong conclusion. To me it sounded like: "it's not that bad, it's just the Internet". My mistake, but no biggie - I hope. Mistake understood. 2) The very post of mine you quoted, states that "I hope they can black the unnecessary stuff out and listen to the warranted criticism." So I do exactly know the difference. Why do you ask? 3) The studio that made the game doesn't belong to BioWare anymore, people lost their BioWare jobs over MEA and there is no DLC. Simple math says: the game didn't sell as well as it should have (in EAs eyes) to develop more of ME now. We'll just have to agree to disagree, because if the game didn't make as much of a profit as EA wanted, then the biggest blame goes to Bioware/EA for spending most of ME:A's development time trying to make No Man's Sky 2.0 only to scrap the idea at the last minute because they couldn't get it to work right. That's money, resources, and time that could have been spent on far more important things in the game, like getting rid of game-breaking bugs that cause the player to lose hours of gameplay (yes, I am speaking from experience, this happened far more times than I'd like.)
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Post by river82 on Aug 22, 2017 23:59:58 GMT
The business model is incredibly simple. If you, as a developer, release a game that can bring in enough money to make a reasonable profit[1], then you, as a developer, win. If you don't, then you lose. There are many ways to go about this. You could go small and make a cheap game that small number of people love. You could go big and make an average game that a large number of people like. But if Bioware chooses to intentionally piss off a section of their fanbase, and they have chosen to intentionally piss off sections of their fanbase for years because of the view they weren't needed. Otherwise their white hating developer wouldn't have been supported as he was. If Bioware chooses to piss off a section of their fanbase, to then turn around and blame that section of their fanbase for being pissed off is absurd. If Bioware is of the view that this section of the fanbase wasn't needed then it shouldn't concern themselves with what that section is doing, but rather their new target audience who they're looking to bring in. When Bethesda released Oblivion they made the conscious decision to cut out their hardcore fanbase that supported them for years. For a year their forums exploded in anger resulting in many bans and purges. But, because Bethesda brought in a larger, bigger audience it didn't matter. Because Skyrim blew everybody away (even though Morrowind is the best ) The problem with Bioware is that they're pissing their old fanbase off without bringing in a newer audience. Why? Because they're building a game based on exploration when their exploration sucks. Do you think Bethesda cares that people have been mocking the running actions of their characters for years? No. Because the exploration in an exploration game is great. Bioware chose to make a game based on exploration, ala Dragon Age Inquisition, and this was again their downfall like in Inquisition. This is because ever since Baldur's Gate Bioware have made linear experiences with great stories. They don't do the exploration model well, and this is the reason they failed. In a game meant to be exploration based, it WAS A CHORE. The fans had nothing to do with Bioware's failure. Bioware were cutting a section off and they were willing to deal with their angst. The reason Bioware failed is they again targeted an exploration based game which they are shit at. And they got hammered, and deservedly so. [1] Reasonable being subject to EA these days EDIT: Oblivion, not Obsidian xD
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