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Post by abaris on Aug 21, 2017 18:23:01 GMT
When Obsidian was not living off the kickstarter, it had no problem telling the fans where to go, lol. Not to mention they are still doing it, at least with Tyranny as far as I can tell. Pillars was a model approach. Can't speak for Tyranny. I own it, but it didn't fascinate me half as much as Pillars of Eternity did.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 18:23:26 GMT
When I start thinking back on the announcement and release of Andromeda, I can't stop thinking that the release was basically to drop the asset that was considered a resource sink and to free staff up. That is why both the SP and MP have the feel of missing pieces that would have come with post- release content to fill in those gaps and entice players to revisit, replay, try new things. In other words, Andromeda was being built to be filled out, but at a certain point, prior to release, the direction changed, and they decided to recoup as much cost as they could and not keep the investment up. I dunno, that what it is starting to look to me now. And, I think it's not the MP specifically, not just Anthem. It's also the DA juggernaut that benefitted from canibalizing the Andromeda and the staff & resources redistribution. In short, they had one project too many, and instead of canning it, they released it. But then why not cut the Quarian ark distress call? Why leave so many loose threads? I can't help but feel that they intended to do more, or at least the devs did. To make DLCs and then a second game, but then suddenly the plug was pulled due to the bad reaction and sales.
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Post by rras1994 on Aug 21, 2017 18:25:05 GMT
They are either allowing the fan base to wither because they aren't going to make another ME game so it doesn't matter, or they're just dumb assholes. I don't know which. Or they have other games and can't afford to sacrifice additional resources on it? I keep seeing people saying that Mass Effect has been sacrificed for Anthem and DA but from the way events unfolded, to me, it looks the other way round. Edmonton had to step in to help get MEA finished: this likely cost them resources from their projects. Afterall, Anthem got delayed and DA hasn't been announced yet, despite DAI coming out in 2014. EA already gave MEA an extra 6 months as well. They p;robably just didn't have extra resources to spare to produce dlc, specially when they already used resources from Edmonton and Austin (Austin made Kadara and other things). Personally, I don't feel screwed. I enjoyed the game I got and think I got my money's worth. They knew going in that the project wasn't going to have dlc (the merger of Montreal and the books would have taken months to plan) so those threads they left were left in with future installments in mind. The Dragon Age series has always done this with their games too so it's not like that's a new Bioware thing either. Yes, I would hace liked to have DLC but that's only cus I'm impatient and waiting for a new full game is annoying
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Post by abaris on Aug 21, 2017 18:27:05 GMT
But then why not cut the Quarian ark distress call? Why leave so many loose threads? I can't help but feel that they intended to do more, or at least the devs did. To make DLCs and then a second game, but then suddenly the plug was pulled due to the bad reaction and sales. Didn't they already say they would tie them up with their cherished comics and MP content? Don't get me wrong, I don't defend that, since I was under the impression of buying a complete game, but it may have been their strategy from the get go.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 18:28:26 GMT
When Obsidian was not living off the kickstarter, it had no problem telling the fans where to go, lol. Not to mention they are still doing it, at least with Tyranny as far as I can tell. Pillars was a model approach. Can't speak for Tyranny. I own it, but it didn't fascinate me half as much as Pillars of Eternity did. Heh, I am still waiting on the promised expansions to the last Act and DLC to even purchase it. TBH Obsidian is doing exactly the same thing as what is now being placed at BioWare's door, putting it all in Pillars, while releasing not quite finished, not quite supported Tyranny and Tides, and now announcing a 4th project on the go. I have zero interest in Pillars, so I feel it more than those who like that game. And, well, frankly, Obsidian was the first to pioneer the "just release what's done!" approach back when Bio polished games, and DLC was not even a word.
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Post by Uchimura on Aug 21, 2017 18:28:36 GMT
The corporate games industry is turning away from SP. They'd rather churn out the 25th Overwatch clone and make bank on virtual goods. Or try rather. I don't know how anyone could be interested in 'me toos'.
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Post by bossattack on Aug 21, 2017 18:30:12 GMT
Yep, showing middle finger to their fanbase IS a huge mistake. You mean the same fanbase that didn't buy the game? Ya'll need to get over this. The took five years of troubled development to make and barely made back its investment. EA has no obligation to sink more money into what they believed was a failed studio to generate a sequel to a poorly received game. When the time is right they'll bring Mass Effect back again.
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Post by abaris on Aug 21, 2017 18:30:46 GMT
Heh, I am still waiting on the promised expansions to the last Act and DLC to even purchase it. What? They published the two DLCs they promised and I wouldn't know what's missing from the last act. It was a complete game right from the start, with the DLCs adding additional content.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 18:31:33 GMT
When I start thinking back on the announcement and release of Andromeda, I can't stop thinking that the release was basically to drop the asset that was considered a resource sink and to free staff up. That is why both the SP and MP have the feel of missing pieces that would have come with post- release content to fill in those gaps and entice players to revisit, replay, try new things. In other words, Andromeda was being built to be filled out, but at a certain point, prior to release, the direction changed, and they decided to recoup as much cost as they could and not keep the investment up. I dunno, that what it is starting to look to me now. And, I think it's not the MP specifically, not just Anthem. It's also the DA juggernaut that benefitted from canibalizing the Andromeda and the staff & resources redistribution. In short, they had one project too many, and instead of canning it, they released it. But then why not cut the Quarian ark distress call? Why leave so many loose threads? I can't help but feel that they intended to do more, or at least the devs did. To make DLCs and then a second game, but then suddenly the plug was pulled due to the bad reaction and sales. I don't know. Maybe it was a hope for a miracle, the "what the heck" thing? Maybe it was intended as a hook to hang that wonderful novel on. overall, I can't complain about the SP, as I actually got far, far more out of it than I have expected. It's MP being now left as is (or as near as doesn't matter) that did not raise to my expectations.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 18:33:01 GMT
Heh, I am still waiting on the promised expansions to the last Act and DLC to even purchase it. What? They published the two DLCs they promised and I wouldn't know what's missing from the last act. It was a complete game right from the start, with the DLCs adding additional content. Hold on, the Bastard Wound/the Act 3 additions they announced on June 13th are out? That's what I am waiting on.
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Post by abaris on Aug 21, 2017 18:34:51 GMT
Hold on, the Bastard Wound/the Act 3 additions they announced are out? That's what I am waiting on. What game are you talking about? I meant Pillars of Eternity, not Tyranny.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 18:35:50 GMT
Hold on, the Bastard Wound/the Act 3 additions they announced are out? That's what I am waiting on. What game are you talking about? I meant Pillars of Eternity, not Tyranny. Tyranny, I have no interest whatsoever in PoE.
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Post by abaris on Aug 21, 2017 18:38:09 GMT
Tyranny, I have no interest whatsoever in PoE. I said, I can't speak about it, since I didn't like it half as much as POE. So I'm rather surprised you're quoting me on that.
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Post by rolenka on Aug 21, 2017 18:43:05 GMT
Or they have other games and can't afford to sacrifice additional resources on it? I keep seeing people saying that Mass Effect has been sacrificed for Anthem and DA but from the way events unfolded, to me, it looks the other way round. Edmonton had to step in to help get MEA finished: this likely cost them resources from their projects. Afterall, Anthem got delayed and DA hasn't been announced yet, despite DAI coming out in 2014. EA already gave MEA an extra 6 months as well. They p;robably just didn't have extra resources to spare to produce dlc, specially when they already used resources from Edmonton and Austin (Austin made Kadara and other things). Personally, I don't feel screwed. I enjoyed the game I got and think I got my money's worth. BW Montreal was available to do it. They got moved to work on Star Wars and a new IP, not DA or Anthem to help them catch up. They knew going in that the project wasn't going to have dlc (the merger of Montreal and the books would have taken months to plan) so those threads they left were left in with future installments in mind. The Dragon Age series has always done this with their games too so it's not like that's a new Bioware thing either. Yes, I would hace liked to have DLC but that's only cus I'm impatient and waiting for a new full game is annoying I don't think so. The reporting was that the staff was expecting to immediately start working on DLC and a sequel. Someone here said Cora Harper's actress said she had started recording for it. It's not important enough to me to go try to verify that, but there it is, FWIW. I don't think the merger would have taken months to plan, but even if it did, it came more than 4 months after MEA's release.
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Post by Ogred on Aug 21, 2017 18:44:07 GMT
Why is this such a big deal? I liked the game, I enjoyed a lot of the characters and moments it had. I wanted more, but not getting it doesn't make me angry nor anything really, I feel nothing. It's just a game ffs not a first necesity product, what are you, a bunch of rich kids or something ?
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Post by naytnavare on Aug 21, 2017 18:44:32 GMT
In the end, I believe this will cause more damage than the MEA release. MEA upset some fans, some casuals, some media.
Dropping the game alienates remaining fans, lets casuals forget, and gives the media something to mock.
They were still in the game until this. I can't even look at my MEA pop figures right now. I feel like Bioware is just making too many bad calls, and it can't all be EA's fault.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 18:44:59 GMT
Tyranny, I have no interest whatsoever in PoE. I said, I can't speak about it, since I didn't like it half as much as POE. So I'm rather surprised you're quoting me on that. I quoted you because I was making a comparison of Obsidian's behavor managing multiple projects with that of BioWare's. In other words, PoE gets the preferred treatment and resource allocation vs Tyranny and Tides, which might be exactly the same as BioWare cannibalizing Andromeda and releasing it without enough resources backing it vs Dragon Age Inquisition and (presumably) Anthem.
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Post by rras1994 on Aug 21, 2017 18:52:22 GMT
I said, I can't speak about it, since I didn't like it half as much as POE. So I'm rather surprised you're quoting me on that. I quoted you because I was making a comparison of Obsidian's behavor managing multiple projects with that of BioWare's. In other words, PoE gets the preferred treatment and resource allocation vs Tyranny and Tides, which might be exactly the same as BioWare cannibalizing Andromeda and releasing it without enough resources backing it vs Dragon Age Inquisition and (presumably) Anthem. Except MEA DID get resources. They had the whole of Montreal working on it for five years. When they screwed up (wasting that long on No Man's Sky was pretty screwy) they had to take resources from Edmonton and Austin in order to release the game. That would have meant they'd have had to divert resources away from other projects like DA and Anthem which would therefore be affected. They also get a 6 month extension from EA. It wasn't like Bioware didn't try to fix the game and get a good experience for us (I thought they succeeded btw) but there is a limit to what they can do and how many resources they can spare. hence dlc got the chop. But Bioware and EA did put alot of resouces into MEA they were just mismanaged hence why Montreal is no more
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 18:55:56 GMT
I quoted you because I was making a comparison of Obsidian's behavor managing multiple projects with that of BioWare's. In other words, PoE gets the preferred treatment and resource allocation vs Tyranny and Tides, which might be exactly the same as BioWare cannibalizing Andromeda and releasing it without enough resources backing it vs Dragon Age Inquisition and (presumably) Anthem. Except MEA DID get resources. They had the whole of Montreal working on it for five years. When they screwed up (wasting that long on No Man's Sky was pretty screwy) they had to take resources from Edmonton and Austin in order to release the game. That would have meant they'd have had to divert resources away from other projects like DA and Anthem which would therefore be affected. They also get a 6 month extension from EA. It wasn't like Bioware didn't try to fix the game and get a good experience for us (I thought they succeeded btw) but there is a limit to what they can do and how many resources they can spare. hence dlc got the chop. But Bioware and EA did put alot of resouces into MEA they were just mismanaged hence why Montreal is no more Yes. I do not disagree on any particular point. Obsidian is doing the same, in their niche & it is more visible, as crowdfunding is fairly transparent. It is a common sense approach. As annoying as it is at times when it's your favoured project that gets the shaft or does not gain traction.
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Post by zarmor on Aug 21, 2017 18:59:30 GMT
Yep, showing middle finger to their fanbase IS a huge mistake. You mean the same fanbase that didn't buy the game? Ya'll need to get over this. The took five years of troubled development to make and barely made back its investment. EA has no obligation to sink more money into what they believed was a failed studio to generate a sequel to a poorly received game. When the time is right they'll bring Mass Effect back again. Yep, you're quite right from an immediate and direct financial point of view, EA didn't want to invest more money without knowing they will have a good immediate payback.
However I have seen that type of situation before in other businesses. The short term financial interest is not always the best strategy for a long term profitable business.
Pissing off the fans ( customers ) by not providing them with some content( products ) that will keep them loyal on the long term, will probably make a subtancial part of their ME fans ( customers ) turning away from their other franchises ( games ) on the long term....
So maybe on the long terme they will loose more money by not investing now to keep their fan base happy
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Post by bossattack on Aug 21, 2017 19:27:54 GMT
You mean the same fanbase that didn't buy the game? Ya'll need to get over this. The took five years of troubled development to make and barely made back its investment. EA has no obligation to sink more money into what they believed was a failed studio to generate a sequel to a poorly received game. When the time is right they'll bring Mass Effect back again. Yep, you're quite right from an immediate and direct financial point of view, EA didn't want to invest more money without knowing they will have a good immediate payback.
However I have seen that type of situation before in other businesses. The short term financial interest is not always the best strategy for a long term profitable business.
Pissing off the fans ( customers ) by not providing them with some content( products ) that will keep them loyal on the long term, will probably make a subtancial part of their ME fans ( customers ) turning away from their other franchises ( games ) on the long term....
So maybe on the long terme they will loose more money by not investing now to keep their fan base happy
Everyone here keeps overstating the situation and spouting nonsense about what the "fans" will accept. First, EA is looking at things long term. I've said it before, but I'm pretty sure they planned to close Montreal down regardless of the reception Andromeda received. They took five years, a large amount of resources, and outside help to push out what turned out to be a mediocre title in a franchise that was never a mega seller. The studio was simply too poorly mismanaged to be allowed to continue and the last thing EA was going to do was trust them with a large amount of money and time to push out another lackluster sequel. EA is focused on Anthem and DA4 as their big AAA RPG type experiences, games that aren't coming out for a while. They simply don't have the resources to start developing MEA2 or even MEA DLC. Every BioWare studio is already working on something, the only ones that weren't was Montreal and we already noted how poorly managed they were. Second, the "fans" will always be ready for more Mass Effect whenever they decide to bring it back. A lot of people talk about how the "fans" will be pissed at this abandonment of MEA, but the reality is most fans were already pissed at the release of MEA. And, most of them were happy to see the series taken away from Montreal and likely given back to Edmonton. When (and if) EA decides to bring the series back everyone will have forgotten Andromeda and be foaming at the mouth for another Mass Effect, especially one developed by BioWare proper. Everyone here can talk about how they feel "betrayed" and will "boycott EA" but we all know that in four years when they announce that Edmonton or Austin is working on a new Mass Effect you'll be ready that day to put down a pre-order. Hell, look how long it took them to bring back Star Wars: Battlefront, yet despite all the complaining prior everyone bought the game even if it was a shell of its former self. EA is a business, they have to do what's right to generate profit for their shareholders and they also only have a finite amount of resources. They aren't going to sink more money into a failing studio to produce another possible failure in a series that has never been the mega seller they'd like. Hopefully, if Anthem sells REALLY well, they'll be ready to give Mass Effect another go.
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Post by armass81 on Aug 21, 2017 19:35:10 GMT
Let them go to Anthem then... fuck Anthem.. I hope it gets what Destiny did, and slowly fades off its potential... So fuck them both. And Fuck you too EA, you greedy, bloated, festering, worm infested, shit brained destroyer of game companies and dreams.
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Post by Garo on Aug 21, 2017 19:37:09 GMT
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Post by abaris on Aug 21, 2017 19:39:43 GMT
I love how they released literally 1 outfit for people that bought deluxe edition. And that being basically the same outfit as the others with some alpha channel editing and retexturing. Something an intern could have done in two hours tops.
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Post by bossattack on Aug 21, 2017 19:50:01 GMT
Let them go to Anthem then... fuck Anthem.. I hope it gets what Destiny did, and slowly fades off its potential... So fuck them both. And Fuck you too EA, you greedy, bloated, festering, worm infested, shit brained destroyer of game companies and dreams. Destiny was a MASSIVE success for Activision/Bungie. So, are you saying that is what you want for Anthem?
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