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Post by alanc9 on Aug 31, 2017 16:53:03 GMT
Depends on the world, doesn't it? I think Kadara's better than most DAI zones. Not it isn't. Not really. I'm just replaying DAI and Kadara certainly isn't more interesting. Maybe the Hissing wastes come in second, but all the other regions are better. Could you walk me through this? The standard charge against DAI and MEA is that the zones are largely devoid of NPC interaction and sidequests that aren't just blowing up X number of things in a row. What's your metric for "interesting"? What made, say, the Storm Coast or the Exalted Plains more interesting than Kadara?
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Post by abaris on Aug 31, 2017 17:00:10 GMT
Could you walk me through this? The standard charge against DAI and MEA is that the zones are largely devoid of NPC interaction and sidequests that aren't just blowing up X number of things in a row. What's your metric for "interesting"? What made, say, the Storm Coast or the Exalted Plains more interesting than Kadara? They're even more devoid of life in MEA. There's absolutely nothing other than dropped in hordes and critters, whereas in DAI there are actual (not very lively) settlements in some regions. It's pretty obvious that they regressed even behind DAI standards.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 31, 2017 17:16:59 GMT
Perhaps the biggest gaping plothole in the whole game. None of the golden worlds panned out. Except for the exiles who are doing quite well on all of them. So what do we need the pathfinder for? To operate the deus ex machina, of course. It's because the stuff like that I'm open to any option for continuing the Mass Effect franchise other than MEA:2. If you look at how often they strayed from the source, or had issues with concepts from ME1, stuff they either got just wrong or decided to ret-con when they made ME2&3. To think that you could write a more stable plot building on the foundations of sand that is MEA is madness. I don't see how that would be an issue. In an MEA2 the colonization problem would be solved anyway, and the details of how it worked or didn't work would be irrelevant. If that stuff bothers a player even though it never comes up, then it'll bother him regardless of what the devs do and the franchise really is dead for him.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 31, 2017 17:19:51 GMT
Could you walk me through this? The standard charge against DAI and MEA is that the zones are largely devoid of NPC interaction and sidequests that aren't just blowing up X number of things in a row. What's your metric for "interesting"? What made, say, the Storm Coast or the Exalted Plains more interesting than Kadara? They're even more devoid of life in MEA. There's absolutely nothing other than dropped in hordes and critters, whereas in DAI there are actual (not very lively) settlements in some regions. It's pretty obvious that they regressed even behind DAI standards. Huh? That's arguably true for Eos and Elaaden (outside of the colony and outposts), but Kadara has quite a few NPCs outside of Kadara Port, and Voeld has a couple of angaran settlements. Are you sure we're talking about the same planets?
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Post by samhain444 on Aug 31, 2017 17:26:29 GMT
They're even more devoid of life in MEA. There's absolutely nothing other than dropped in hordes and critters, whereas in DAI there are actual (not very lively) settlements in some regions. It's pretty obvious that they regressed even behind DAI standards. Huh? That's arguably true for Eos and Elaaden (outside of the colony and outposts), but Kadara has quite a few NPCs outside of Kadara Port, and Voeld has a couple of angaran settlements. Are you sure we're talking about the same planets? Not to mention some planets are compromised by environmental hazards that are only cleared up by the Pathfinder's activation of the Remnant vault. Not really much of a comparison in terms of circumstance betweem DA:I and ME:A
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Post by abaris on Aug 31, 2017 17:37:23 GMT
Huh? That's arguably true for Eos and Elaaden (outside of the colony and outposts), but Kadara has quite a few NPCs outside of Kadara Port, and Voeld has a couple of angaran settlements. Are you sure we're talking about the same planets? Yeah, I'm sure. The static Angarans or whatever standing around besides dropped in hordes don't count towards settlements. I stand by what I said. They took the rather liveless open worlds and worsened them between games. DAI at least tries to provide some movement within these settlements, even some select reactions by certain NPCs. MEA did nothing like that. As far as open world content is concerned, MEA is on the same lines as Morrowind, 25 years ago. And even that's stretching it to the limits of goodwill, since Morrowind at least had reactive guards.
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Post by abaris on Aug 31, 2017 17:42:02 GMT
Not to mention some planets are compromised by environmental hazards that are only cleared up by the Pathfinder's activation of the Remnant vault. Not really much of a comparison in terms of circumstance betweem DA:I and ME:A And? Does that prevent the so called outlaws from having a party on Kadara? Does the heat do anything to the Krogans or the cold to the Angarans? Obviously there for quite some time. And I'm not even talking about bullshit like Advent and a bunch of outlaws winning the envrionmental lottery, which still doesn't say how they could brave the radition to show up near your outpost. It's plothole bull - all of it.
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Post by ozzie on Aug 31, 2017 17:58:59 GMT
It's because the stuff like that I'm open to any option for continuing the Mass Effect franchise other than MEA:2. If you look at how often they strayed from the source, or had issues with concepts from ME1, stuff they either got just wrong or decided to ret-con when they made ME2&3. To think that you could write a more stable plot building on the foundations of sand that is MEA is madness. I don't see how that would be an issue. In an MEA2 the colonization problem would be solved anyway, and the details of how it worked or didn't work would be irrelevant. If that stuff bothers a player even though it never comes up, then it'll bother him regardless of what the devs do and the franchise really is dead for him. Well that's kinda my point. For me and a lot of people the Andromeda opening is so botched, it is a dead arm of the franchise. It's not that these people don't want another Mass Effect game, but your going to have a lot of difficulty selling a sequel to people who never bought into Andromeda. Mass Effect works because the universe that was built in ME1 is believable and invites scrutiny, you want to learn more about it. Telling me to just ignore the gaping plot holes and pretend that MEA makes sense so I can continue the tale in MEA2 is just not the same. The devs have plenty options available to them, a near infinite number of Mass Effect stories they can sell me, but one based on the nonsense that is the AI is not one of them.
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Post by samhain444 on Aug 31, 2017 18:03:06 GMT
Not to mention some planets are compromised by environmental hazards that are only cleared up by the Pathfinder's activation of the Remnant vault. Not really much of a comparison in terms of circumstance betweem DA:I and ME:A And? Does that prevent the so called outlaws from having a party on Kadara? Does the heat do anything to the Krogans or the cold to the Angarans? Obviously there for quite some time. And I'm not even talking about bullshit like Advent and a bunch of outlaws winning the envrionmental lottery, which still doesn't say how they could brave the radition to show up near your outpost. It's plothole bull - all of it. OK, it clearly bothered you
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Post by clips7 on Aug 31, 2017 19:36:43 GMT
"For the last time Bob, I don't know where the exiles got the resources from to set up this massive shielded complex here, nor do I have any idea what we are doing with the stuff we are mining... now stop gawping at the kilometre and a half long plot hole floating overhead and get back to work" Perhaps the biggest gaping plothole in the whole game. None of the golden worlds panned out. Except for the exiles who are doing quite well on all of them. So what do we need the pathfinder for? To operate the deus ex machina, of course. Haha...i've always wondered how Sloane just practically owned the Kett on Kadara and never allowed them to come back......but the Kett are establishing bases and headquarters on other planets with ease.... ....it didn't bother me tho, because eh, they was trying to tell a story..... Sheeit Sloane kicked ass and took names....what the hell we needed Ryder for?....
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Post by Iakus on Aug 31, 2017 20:40:28 GMT
Perhaps the biggest gaping plothole in the whole game. None of the golden worlds panned out. Except for the exiles who are doing quite well on all of them. So what do we need the pathfinder for? To operate the deus ex machina, of course. Haha...i've always wondered how Sloane just practically owned the Kett on Kadara and never allowed them to come back......but the Kett are establishing bases on headquarters on other planets with ease.... ....it didn't bother me tho, because eh, they was trying to tell a story..... Sheeit Sloane kicked ass and took names....what the hell we needed Ryder for?.... Ryder? Shoulda put her in charge of the whole Andromeda Initiative!
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Post by ssanyesz on Sept 6, 2017 9:42:14 GMT
People can't take a character that is accountable to any authority figure and is not in a full control of the world and spits in the face of anyone with any seniority. Any small time character in the world is not going fly. Peeps hated Ryder, Smuggler, Trooper, Hawke... they want grandeur, in their thirties that totally controls the shit and doesn't give a shit. This is so not true at all. It's about charisma. Having actual leadership skills and a backbone. Hawke is actually a lot like Shepard. The problem with Ryder is that s/he's some sheltered spoiled kid who gets the job handed to them and only succeeds because SAM babysits them the entire game. Hawke went through hell and built a life from scratch. No magical AI or glowing hand that gives them special abilities. Both Shepard and Hawke earned their reputation. So actually, it's Ryder and the inquisitor who are the special snowflakes with godlike abilities that they just received. And the regular people are Shepard and Hawke who got ahead in life through hard work. And yes, I know Shepard is space Jesus. But the beacon isn't what made Shep special, it was an extraordinary inspiring personality. You can play Hawke as an authority mocking asshole. Just like renegade Shepard. So by your definition, they should be in the same category. You can't be assertive with Ryder. Ryder is a spineless boy scout. Nobody minds the warden who is also just some regular person who gets sucked into the archdemon business. The problem with Ryder and also the inquisitor is that they are bland and uncharismatic. At least to me. I feel the same way, didnt or couldnt like Ryder and Inquisitor that much, not just the characters but the dialogs they had too. Or their style was restrained by the game or dont know how to put it all bioware games were better before Inquisition maybe because they were were smaller and the most of dialoges got more distinctive options.
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Post by mmoblitz on Sept 6, 2017 10:10:45 GMT
Wrong. It was doomed to fail from the people who couldn't get over the endings and were begging for it to fail. Wrong, It was doomed to fail because of all the bugs at launch, crap animations, poor story, poor characters and poorly written dialogue. The bugs and poor animations didn't really bother me that much, it's pretty much a given with a Bioware game, but the story, characters, and dialogue are what gave the OT it's fame. It certainly wasn't the combat. With MEA those core features were put on life support so they could work on open worlds and combat. Then when they couldn't get it to work right, they scrapped it and put it out the door anyway. But yes, it's the fans fault for expecting a game with Mass Effect in the title to be a Mass Effect game....
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 6, 2017 18:18:38 GMT
Huh? That's arguably true for Eos and Elaaden (outside of the colony and outposts), but Kadara has quite a few NPCs outside of Kadara Port, and Voeld has a couple of angaran settlements. Are you sure we're talking about the same planets? Yeah, I'm sure. The static Angarans or whatever standing around besides dropped in hordes don't count towards settlements. I stand by what I said. They took the rather liveless open worlds and worsened them between games. DAI at least tries to provide some movement within these settlements, even some select reactions by certain NPCs. MEA did nothing like that. As far as open world content is concerned, MEA is on the same lines as Morrowind, 25 years ago. And even that's stretching it to the limits of goodwill, since Morrowind at least had reactive guards. I don't follow your standards for settlements. If the DAI settlements count in its favor for you -- and you just cited them -- then they have to be superior to ME:A settlements, which don't count. How are the DAI settlements superior? And, again, you really didn't notice that Kadara is better than the average ME:A world? Also, are you saying that Morrowind was bad? I think it's better than Skyrim, which is a bit frantic and junky.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 6, 2017 18:52:30 GMT
Wrong, It was doomed to fail because of all the bugs at launch, crap animations, poor story, poor characters and poorly written dialogue. The bugs and poor animations didn't really bother me that much, it's pretty much a given with a Bioware game, but the story, characters, and dialogue are what gave the OT it's fame. It certainly wasn't the combat. With MEA those core features were put on life support so they could work on open worlds and combat. Then when they couldn't get it to work right, they scrapped it and put it out the door anyway. But yes, it's the fans fault for expecting a game with Mass Effect in the title to be a Mass Effect game.... That's what I got though I also knew what I was getting.
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Post by Ameridan on Sept 8, 2017 23:00:19 GMT
This is good news, hopefully, we will get some solid bit of info on the future of the franchise, As for those who want to go back to the milky way I'd rather not regardless of animations or reviews, at the end of Andromeda the Nexus lot in my mind have a solid foundation from which they can carry on into the Andromeda galaxy and expand in the heleus cluster. I just hope we don't have to wait 10 years plus for the next game. Bioware without mass effect is a bit depressing. Ialso look forward to the Novels, and think casey hudson the right man for the job
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Post by Guts on Sept 8, 2017 23:12:56 GMT
Yeah, I'm sure. The static Angarans or whatever standing around besides dropped in hordes don't count towards settlements. I stand by what I said. They took the rather liveless open worlds and worsened them between games. DAI at least tries to provide some movement within these settlements, even some select reactions by certain NPCs. MEA did nothing like that. As far as open world content is concerned, MEA is on the same lines as Morrowind, 25 years ago. And even that's stretching it to the limits of goodwill, since Morrowind at least had reactive guards. I don't follow your standards for settlements. If the DAI settlements count in its favor for you -- and you just cited them -- then they have to be superior to ME:A settlements, which don't count. How are the DAI settlements superior? And, again, you really didn't notice that Kadara is better than the average ME:A world? Also, are you saying that Morrowind was bad? I think it's better than Skyrim, which is a bit frantic and junky. I Morrowind not long ago, I hate the combat though, so I had to download a mod.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 9, 2017 0:26:59 GMT
Yeah, TES combat generally sucks, but Morrowind was particularly bad.
Fortunately, vanilla Morrowind is very exploitable. One of the mods on Bio's old board -- Syrsuro, or maybe Torias -- sold me on the idea that the best way to enjoy the game was to go straight for the exploits and curbstomp everything.
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Post by abaris on Sept 9, 2017 10:28:28 GMT
Yeah, TES combat generally sucks, but Morrowind was particularly bad. Fortunately, vanilla Morrowind is very exploitable. One of the mods on Bio's old board -- Syrsuro, or maybe Torias -- sold me on the idea that the best way to enjoy the game was to go straight for the exploits and curbstomp everything. As far as Morrowind is concerned, you also have to look at the time it came out. The concept was pretty novel back then and I can remember how positivily overwhelmed I was by the world that unfolded before my eyes. The weather, the day/night cycle, the vastness of the landscape. It's easy to see the weaknesses of it today, with todays knowledge and technology. The combat, the skillsets that were easily exploited. The largely static NPCs that had no life cycle. Btw, one of my major points of criticism as far as Bioware open worlds are concerned. They're still stuck with that concept that was acceptable in 2002 but not really in this day and age.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 9, 2017 15:00:39 GMT
None of that stuff bothers me. I still like Morrowind more than Skyrim. Of course, some of the things I don't like about Skyrim are exactly what made it popular.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 17:54:28 GMT
I don't see how that would be an issue. In an MEA2 the colonization problem would be solved anyway, and the details of how it worked or didn't work would be irrelevant. If that stuff bothers a player even though it never comes up, then it'll bother him regardless of what the devs do and the franchise really is dead for him. Well that's kinda my point. For me and a lot of people the Andromeda opening is so botched, it is a dead arm of the franchise. It's not that these people don't want another Mass Effect game, but your going to have a lot of difficulty selling a sequel to people who never bought into Andromeda. Mass Effect works because the universe that was built in ME1 is believable and invites scrutiny, you want to learn more about it. I'm trying to figure out how these (ostensibly) rational, discerning folks ever bought into ME in the first place. In the first five minutes of the very first game, I was presented with a background so preposterous that I had to step away for a bit to try to talk myself into accepting it. I very nearly shut it down and walked away permanently, and likely would have were it not for the fact that I'd just purchased the entire trilogy. This is what I was expected to buy into: 2147: Trace amounts of element zero are discovered on Mars 2148: Humanity discovers a cache of Prothean technology on Mars, quickly explores the science of mass effect fields, invents FTL travel, and starts detailed exploration of the Sol system. My, those humans are not only extraordinarily clever, but also have some pretty amazing manufacturing/production facilities! 2149: Humans discover that one of Pluto's moons (Charon) is actually dormant technology encased in ice. They thaw the bugger out, figure out how to activate and use it, and launch a team of explorers through it to the Arcturus relay. They conclude that these relays are actually part of a much bigger network. Also that year: The Systems Alliance charter is signed by the 18 largest nations on earth, which will is to be the military and exploratory spearhead for humanity. How things have changed - it takes longer than that for Congress to pass a bill or lawsuits to make their way through court systems. 2150: Humanity begins the first surveys for colonization prospects outside the Sol system, and discovers Terra Nova. 2151: Humanity begins constructing a massive military fleet and space station at Arcturus, the nexus of several key mass relays, even though they have yet to encounter another intelligent spacefaring race. Apparently, they'd found adequate sources for eezo and figured out how to extract it by then. Also that year: An accident at Singapore International Spaceport exposes hundreds of humans to dust-form element zero. Roughly 30% of the children born in Singapore after element zero exposure suffer from cancerous growths. Some of them will become the first human biotics. 2152: Colonies are established on Demeter, Eden Prime, and Terra Nova. I wonder how much of the fleet they started constructing last year are completed, staffed, and deployed to protect these new colonies... 2154: Shepard is born. Also, another accident exposing humans to eezo occurs in an unspecified location, probably to support a biotic Shepard. 2155: The Systems Alliance moves into completed parts of Arcturus Station. It took 4 years from the time construction started until they could occupy completed portions. I wonder how they're coming along with the fleet buildout? 2156: Arcturus Station is formally inaugurated. Also, some eezo exposed 5-year-olds start to exhibit telekinetic powers. 2157: First Contact War - I hope that fleet they started building 6 years ago is fully operational. Humanity introduced to the Citadel Council and greater galactic community. Also, Cerberus is founded and publishes its manifesto. 2162: Arcturus Station is complete. What I find so sad about the ludicrous timeline they established is that it was so completely unnecessary. They could have made the dates anything else more reasonable, and it would have been much easier to accept. They did do a pretty good job of signaling how much suspension of disbelief would be required to make it through the series, however. I won't mention the beacon other than to say that that scene is when I realized that Shepard isn't really my character, but BioWare's. I will mention that I found it ridiculous that my squad was able to walk onto the Citadel fully armed. They have scanning technology that can identify individuals, but allow anyone (including criminals) to walk onto the Citadel with large amounts of firepower? Yeah, it's a shooter after all, and - gameplay. Oh, and there's a 50,000+ year old plant on Feros capable of controlling people and spitting out fully armed asari clones that managed to absorb the cultural code (cipher) of the ancient protheans through its roots from their decomposing bodies. This cipher was somehow transmitted to the original asari the thorian had swallowed (yet she somehow survived) who can now mentally transfer it to Shepard. Alrighty then. Want to talk plotholes? Okay, let's go. The Citadel Council convicts Saren and identifies Benezia based on a recorded message supposedly captured from a geth, while rejecting info about reapers from the same source. Saren goes through this multi-step process that looks like this: - Obtain intel from multiple beacons. (Somehow he knew where they were. He did not get their location from Sovereign; if the reapers knew of them, they would have been destroyed.)
- Obtain cipher from thorian to interpret beacons. (Again, how could Saren have known the thorian had the cipher?)
- Extract location of Mu relay from (extinct) rachni. (Why didn't Sovereign tell him what he needed to know about the relay system and location of Ilos?)
- Develop genophage cure which somehow gives him an army of full grown krogan (Later we learn that it had to be Mordin - someone else might have gotten it wrong.)
- Why Saren ever needed an army or the conduit is pretty sketchy. As a Spectre, he could have walked onto the Citadel to operate the console at any time - though I can see a use for the geth fleet as fodder to protect Sovereign.
My point is not to tear down the trilogy - it was an amazing ride and incredibly fun - but it always stretched the boundaries of disbelief, made plentiful use of mcguffins and deus ex machinas, and asked players to swallow plotholes galore. I see no legitimate reason why Andromeda should be expected to meet more stringent standards.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 9, 2017 17:56:31 GMT
I kinda wished humanity wasn't so new to the citadel council. Their fast rise just made them into the humans are special storyline.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 9, 2017 17:59:40 GMT
I kinda wished humanity wasn't so new to the citadel council. Their fast rise just made them into the humans are special storyline. But humanity is special, regardless of how long they've been part of the galactic community. humanity #1
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Post by Serza on Sept 10, 2017 8:19:54 GMT
"The tech on Mars was plug-and-go. The tech here... thinks differently?"
...that's the description of why it takes so much longer to implement RemTech.
Now walk away. Go on. Feel free. I won't hold you.
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Post by dawnold on Sept 10, 2017 13:35:56 GMT
"For the last time Bob, I don't know where the exiles got the resources from to set up this massive shielded complex here, nor do I have any idea what we are doing with the stuff we are mining... now stop gawping at the kilometre and a half long plot hole floating overhead and get back to work" Perhaps the biggest gaping plothole in the whole game. None of the golden worlds panned out. Except for the exiles who are doing quite well on all of them. So what do we need the pathfinder for? To operate the deus ex machina, of course. You mean H-047c? Didn't Sid and Sam say that the mining operation belonged to the Angarrans (not sure if Jaal chimes in if you bring him on the nomad)? I can't remember if it was abandoned or if the exiles took it by force... but they probably learned about it the same way they found Kadara: from Angarrans. As for the shields that protect against radiation, they're either originally made by Angarrans or reveresed engineered from Kett tech (similar to those on Voeld). They're mining helium-3, if I remember. Which can be used as fuel... or as catalyst for explosives. I believe the exiles were mining it for Elora, an Asari we can find on Kadara, who wants to use it to attack the Nexus and other exiles.
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