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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 12:42:01 GMT
You claim to want "options for everyone"... but that simply cannot be done without "every range of personality" because everyone wants to play a different personality. You're staking claim to the "emotional response" as being sadness... but what about anger? what about just collapsing and passing out? what about denial? - all are common emotional responses to news of a death. What about the player who wants to play an emotional Ryder who hated his dad... who might instead lash out angrily with "What, you think I cared about that a-hole?" TBH, I've seen a lot of people have the emotional response to hearing of a death as being "shock" (deer in the headlights)... detached and seemingly unemotional... particularly when surrounded by strangers (it's called maintaining a public face). They can break down later or become angry later... when they are left alone with their thoughts. My own mother reacted to the death of my father precisely that way. She spent two days robotically going through making all the arrangements and only broke down after the funeral was over... and she cared about my dad very, very much... never went out with anyone else for 40 years. Also, regardless of how you feel about Witcher games... TW3 is very commonly held up as the current gold standard for RPGs. That's why I used it as an example (personally, you know I don't like TW3 either... haven't played the other 2). I accept that we can't have every possible reaction. But why can't we have 3-4? Why only one? Why is wanting a choice the same as wanting everything? Why is wanting to role play as anything but a wise-cracking action hero being unreasonable? I posted earlier four very different reactions to the same emotional event in a recent Bioware game. It can be done. As I said, for that particular part they chose to go with a neutral and one scene (scrimped on the resources). It probably meant that elsewhere in the game there was an option. Sure, maybe they could have made a better choice... we don't know because we don't know what would have been sacrificed to make way for 3 or 4 difference scenes to reflect the level of emotions you want to see. It would be nice if they could do them all. In this case... the neutral is based on a plausible reaction by a Ryder who cares and a Ryder who does not care. The time alone "with your own thoughts" is also left open for you to imagine stronger emotions. It's not that in can't be done the way you want... it's that the overall game had a budget... so choices by the developers get made... and people are going to disagree with some... I think though, in this case, the reaction by the fans has been over the top. It's not that serious an issue. People can go into shock upon hearing about a death and not reaction emotionally until they are left alone. It's not an unreasonable lack of reaction. At any rate... nothing is changing it now... game is no longer supported. The budget for the next installment is probably going to be even tighter than this one... if we get a next installment at all. You may get your wish... unvoiced PC (and I'm willing to bet they'll be complaints aplenty if they make that choice).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 14:26:19 GMT
Here's an improvement I would like to see:
Why can't we buy every type of item in the game from the store on Tempest rather than trotting all over the place to get weapons from this one, armor from that one, augments and mods from that one, but only mods from this one.
Most games try to make an art of making shopping as inconvenient and as time consuming as possible. Bioware is really just following along with the crowd on this... but it's something that I'd like to see changed.
Also, more consideration as to where fast travel points are placed so I can instantly go where I actually need to go instead of jumping to a fast travel point in the middle of nowhere and still having to drive or walk to get my business done. For example, why can't Clancy be standing right by the Forward Station at Site 1? (so I can unload salvage and buy what I need from him without having to walk around the corner each time). Why can't the merchant in Podromos be located closer to that forward station? Why is one merchant on Kadara not in the port out in the boonies and not near a forward station at all?
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Post by kalasaurus on Oct 11, 2017 16:42:09 GMT
@op, I don't know. I've read through the thread (been mostly lurking here lately), and I agree with some of the criticisms here even though I mostly had fun playing MEA. Bioware's version of open worlds feel static and empty, I never cared for the zoom-in camera conversations, and the autodialogue can take away the player agency over the PC's personality (which also happened quite a bit in ME3). I was also pretty disappointed over the news of them pulling the plug on MEA support and no DLC, since I generally enjoy what Bioware has to offer in DLC I do hope that this doesn't mean the end of Bioware's SP RPGs. I'm still rooting for DA4 and the future of Mass Effect. I don't want to see them tank because Bioware's style of RPG, their custom characterizations of the player character (the ability to play as a female is a big one for me), and of course the characters/companions and the ability to build relationships with them; have always been a highlight for me, and they are my favorite games.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 11, 2017 17:30:00 GMT
I've never really got this "spineless" meme.If anything, I kind of liked getting away from Shepard's bombast. Especially since renegade Shepard doesn’t seem to recieve consequences for his actions.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 11, 2017 17:41:06 GMT
It's not a bad idea, although the actual EC isn't very different from, say, the DA:O epilogue slides. Seems a bit expensive for a free DLC. I'm also not a huge fan of Shepard delivering a speech without player input, although arguably Shepard isn't the PC anymore in this epilogue. Again, the slides didn't match up with the narration in many instances, leaving them ambiguous and without context, in my eyes they don't feel appropriate to conclude a trilogy people invested so many hours in. Worrying about whether the images and narration "match up" is a category mistake. The two channels are independent, and aren't supposed to match. As for the substance, which ambiguities do you wish had been cleared up? This is still going to be more expensive than the existing EC. More dialogue, animations to go on with it, staging, camera work. Exactly how much more expensive depends on how much content you're asking for. (We get some of the cost back by not doing the Normandy pickup scene, though; we don't need the pickup since the Normandy memorial scene is going away.) Ah... Shepard isn't telling us anything that we don't already know, then? OK. I don't see the point of it, but at least this doesn't make things worse.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 18:26:18 GMT
Worrying about whether the images and narration "match up" is a category mistake. The two channels are independent, and aren't supposed to match. That's exactly the problem, the narration and the visuals should not be so disconnected from eachother, this was inherent of the format the Extended cut chose to go with. As I pointed out in my first post, the narration takes place in the present, while the slides take place in an unspecified future, I'm not even sure whether the slides are supposed to depict the actual future or if they are just 'could happen' events. As for the substance, which ambiguities do you wish had been cleared up? Pretty much every slide lacks proper context, if for example the slides about the Tuchanka had been accompanied by a narration on the future of the krogan I'd be okay with it despite not lacking the format. Another example would be to add short narration for each character and what they're up to in post-reaper galaxy rather than leave us with pretty meaningless images. This is still going to be more expensive than the existing EC. More dialogue, animations to go on with it, staging, camera work. Exactly how much more expensive depends on how much content you're asking for. (We get some of the cost back by not doing the Normandy pickup scene, though; we don't need the pickup since the Normandy memorial scene is going away.) I don't think we have to go here, my proposal was merely meant to illustrate how I personally would have liked seen the trilogy conclude in a way that does not require the usage of slides, but rather through a continuous scene that affirms most of the player's decisions. Again it's mostly Andromeda where I'm taking these ideas from.
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Post by brfritos on Oct 11, 2017 22:19:50 GMT
Here's an improvement I would like to see: Why can't we buy every type of item in the game from the store on Tempest rather than trotting all over the place to get weapons from this one, armor from that one, augments and mods from that one, but only mods from this one. Most games try to make an art of making shopping as inconvenient and as time consuming as possible. Bioware is really just following along with the crowd on this... but it's something that I'd like to see changed. ME1 was more like this, you have four main vendors and every one of them is specialized in something . The best armor for Wrex, the Krogan Battlemaster, is always encountered with Morlan; the high specs asari mods with Delan and the spectre weapons with the C-Sec Requisitions Officer. I would've like to see more variety from merchants. It doesn't matter if you are in Kadara or the Nexus, the equipment is almost always the same. There isn't a single incentive to expend cryo pods regarding merchants prices and related or even acumulating credits. The only time you need credits is when buying upgrades for the Nomad. Regarding fast-travel... Who was the friggin GENIUS whom think that entering the Tempest is equivalent to actually leave the location?! There's a door on the ship, you know. You just enter and THEN you fly the ship, not the other way around. So for reading a simply e-mail you have to enter the ship, leave the planet, read the e-mail and then... sometimes return to the same planet. Maybe is like the "pre-board" thing on planes? You get on before you get on?
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 11, 2017 23:26:38 GMT
Here's an improvement I would like to see: Why can't we buy every type of item in the game from the store on Tempest rather than trotting all over the place to get weapons from this one, armor from that one, augments and mods from that one, but only mods from this one. Most games try to make an art of making shopping as inconvenient and as time consuming as possible. Bioware is really just following along with the crowd on this... but it's something that I'd like to see changed. ME1 was more like this, you have four main vendors and every one of them is specialized in something . The best armor for Wrex, the Krogan Battlemaster, is always encountered with Morlan; the high specs asari mods with Delan and the spectre weapons with the C-Sec Requisitions Officer. Except for Spectre weapons -- also available on the Normandy -- there's so much randomness in the ME1 shop inventories that I'm not sure this is really true. I found that you were better off just proceeding with the next main mission. You're depending on the RNG anyway, and you get more swings faster at it by killing and looting than by visiting shops. The weird thing is that ME:A takes ME1's awful economy and then makes it even worse with crafting. Sometimes buying materials can be useful, depending on what you've got Ryder wearing. Then they'd have needed to do individual planetside views out the windows. Technically doable, of course -- you see the Nexus before launching the first time. I guess it could have failed some ROI check and been cut.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 11, 2017 23:43:25 GMT
Worrying about whether the images and narration "match up" is a category mistake. The two channels are independent, and aren't supposed to match. That's exactly the problem, the narration and the visuals should not be so disconnected from eachother, this was inherent of the format the Extended cut chose to go with. As I pointed out in my first post, the narration takes place in the present, while the slides take place in an unspecified future, I'm not even sure whether the slides are supposed to depict the actual future or if they are just 'could happen' events. I don't see an actual problem here. This may be one of those personal taste issues which can't be usefully discussed. Worrying that the scenes are only possibly true is pretty silly. Narration wouldn't change that; the narration could just be from the same possible future too. This is definitely a taste thing. I'm fine with leaving more headcanon space for what the NPCs actually got up to.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 2:15:38 GMT
Here's an improvement I would like to see: Why can't we buy every type of item in the game from the store on Tempest rather than trotting all over the place to get weapons from this one, armor from that one, augments and mods from that one, but only mods from this one. Most games try to make an art of making shopping as inconvenient and as time consuming as possible. Bioware is really just following along with the crowd on this... but it's something that I'd like to see changed. ME1 was more like this, you have four main vendors and every one of them is specialized in something . The best armor for Wrex, the Krogan Battlemaster, is always encountered with Morlan; the high specs asari mods with Delan and the spectre weapons with the C-Sec Requisitions Officer. I would've like to see more variety from merchants. It doesn't matter if you are in Kadara or the Nexus, the equipment is almost always the same. There isn't a single incentive to expend cryo pods regarding merchants prices and related or even acumulating credits. The only time you need credits is when buying upgrades for the Nomad. Regarding fast-travel... Who was the friggin GENIUS whom think that entering the Tempest is equivalent to actually leave the location?! There's a door on the ship, you know. You just enter and THEN you fly the ship, not the other way around. So for reading a simply e-mail you have to enter the ship, leave the planet, read the e-mail and then... sometimes return to the same planet. Maybe is like the "pre-board" thing on planes? You get on before you get on? I completely agree with the last part. You should be able to board the Tempest without taking off each time. ETA: ME1's vendors were not really specialized... all of them sold armor, weapons, and mods (well, I get only one sold the mods - the hanor located in the financial district - farthest away from everyone else, of course). Their inventories were pretty random except for the initial ones. ME:A's vendors are specialized... the weapons vendors won't ever sell mods. The armor vendors only sell armor... and even only specific brands of armor. You'll never see the vendor on the Nexus selling the Angara line of armor. I can understand this fits the lore better... still, combined with the way they've located them on the map (i.e. not near FT points)... it's a real PITA that serves no real function story-wise. I really don't understand why most games deliberately do this - placing the things the player really needs to repeatedly access during the game a distance away from the FT points - is it a loading thing???? Also, Vetra is supposed to be the Queen Quartermaster... so I really do think everything (all types of weapons, armor, augments, mods, and minerals, etc.) should eventually be available on Tempest.
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Post by brfritos on Oct 12, 2017 2:56:01 GMT
The only time you need credits is when buying upgrades for the Nomad. Sometimes buying materials can be useful, depending on what you've got Ryder wearing. Oh yes, buying materials is good when creating augmentations to Ryder's armor and weapons. I just wish they did something more... don't know, evolved. Like for example allowing the player to explore, mine and use materials to craft what they want. Or if the player didn't wanna waste time with this, only mine the minerals and buy the rest by acquiring credits. Except you don't have too much choice in weapons when visiting merchants. But this is the so criticized meddling between SP and MP mechanics. I didn't like it to be honest. Don't know, I think is the devs way to forces us to see the cutscenes. This happened too in ME1 and in the beginning of ME2. And man, the intro of ME2 is long and you can't bypass a single cutscene on it. In ME3 they listened to players and you can skip any cutscene in the game apart from the beginning. But if you start a NG+ you can skipp even the beginning. I'm finishing my first Ryder, I can only imagine the suffering of players when they couldn't skip the travelling around the galaxy map. I think it was implemented in patch 1.05, but I'm not sure.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 12:25:48 GMT
Sometimes buying materials can be useful, depending on what you've got Ryder wearing. Oh yes, buying materials is good when creating augmentations to Ryder's armor and weapons. I just wish they did something more... don't know, evolved. Like for example allowing the player to explore, mine and use materials to craft what they want. Or if the player didn't wanna waste time with this, only mine the minerals and buy the rest by acquiring credits. Except you don't have too much choice in weapons when visiting merchants. But this is the so criticized meddling between SP and MP mechanics. I didn't like it to be honest. Don't know, I think is the devs way to forces us to see the cutscenes. This happened too in ME1 and in the beginning of ME2. And man, the intro of ME2 is long and you can't bypass a single cutscene on it. In ME3 they listened to players and you can skip any cutscene in the game apart from the beginning. But if you start a NG+ you can skipp even the beginning. I'm finishing my first Ryder, I can only imagine the suffering of players when they couldn't skip the travelling around the galaxy m and ap. I think it was implemented in patch 1.05, but I'm not sure. They still could have had the same cutscene play when you actually triggered launch from a planet... we all would have seen each one a few times anyways since you can't just stay on a single planet the whole game. Not allowing us to board Tempest without leaving a planet just made no sense. Surely Ryder would have returned to his ship periodically to restock and rest from combat without lifting off each time. Really, any of the games out there would be shorter and more enjoyable if the devs just put more thought into player convenience. Exploration is not repeatedly running over the same old ground between a vendor and an FT point. It's just a time waster... and, as I said, they all do it to some degree. I had less issue with the planet to planet travel scenes because they were most frequently unlocking new planets and I wanted to see how they had drawn each one and what the descriptions were. I didn't scanning everything the moment it unlocked, but did little bits each time I moved from hub to hub. That way, it only became a problem when I ran out of new routes to get between major points... but by then they had patched that and I could skip the repeating ones. Still, they could have organized their GM differently. Lorewise, it would make more sense if the initial exploration worked it's way out from close to Nexus to farther away in concentric circles. I really doubt that Ryder would just bound off to a far corner of the cluster before exploring the stuff closest in nor do I think he/she would have been bounding thoughtlessly back and forth from one end of the cluster to the other... they had no Mass Relays and limited fuel, so this sort of travel had to have taken some time. Jaal would not have logically been simultaneously assigned to explore situations on two planets that were not even remotely close to each other. As far as being able to just, say, mine the minerals and buy the rest (although you might have to travel quite a distance to find a vendor that sells just the right item)... You could. You could also just kill the animals and buy the minerals. You could also collect any of the materials you needed via Strike Teams and AVP (Cryo Pod) rewards and not mine or kill at all. It would, of course, be much slower to do it that way... but not impossible. The only thing "lacking" on that front is an alternate ability to gain research points other than Milky Way ones. To do that without scanning, you would have to run strike teams since the cryo pod rewards only involve Milky Way points.
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Post by brfritos on Oct 12, 2017 23:31:00 GMT
They still could have had the same cutscene play when you actually triggered launch from a planet... we all would have seen each one a few times anyways since you can't just stay on a single planet the whole game. Not allowing us to board Tempest without leaving a planet just made no sense. Surely Ryder would have returned to his ship periodically to restock and rest from combat without lifting off each time. Usually when I'm in a planet I tried to do most of the missions available on it, so I don't return to the Tempest very often because of the whole "boarding = leaving the planet" issue. This leads sometimes to ankward situations and sometimes continuity fuck ups. It would be so much better if Ryder just enter the Tempest, then gives the location to travel. Just like in MET. This issue of simply buying things being slow is because the meddling of MP mechanics in the SP game. I learned the hard way that is a waste of time using two cryo pods to increase the size of your inventory, only one is enough. And most of the time I sell almost all weapons I have apart from the ones I use. This would be usefull if you could use the increase in inventory size to carry a lot of salvageble and sold later, but then you have the problem of merchants don't carrying too much good items. Why is that? For micro-transitions? To force the player to play the game the way the devs think it should be played? To force the player to explore the galaxy? I don't know the why of it and all I'm doing is speculating, so is not worth doing it. But the final result is not good. It would be better if we have other options instead of doing menial things like killing bugs for sacs, dinossaurs for plating and other boring stuff. Except we don't the option not to do this. I get it, it's a new galaxy, recovering a place and terraforming planets, it makes sense we don't have everything we want. But the way the game implements is tiresome.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 12, 2017 23:50:47 GMT
It would be so much better if Ryder just enter the Tempest, then gives the location to travel. Just like in MET. Well, ME1, anyway. ME2 works like ME:A, doesn't it? And in ME3 the ship only docks at the Citadel so it never comes up. Which MP mechanics are you talking about? Again, you can buy them. In practice, I can't imagine running out of the animal-generated components since you get attacked by the things so often.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Oct 13, 2017 0:40:40 GMT
I am slightly bewildered... I totally agree with a post from redux.
Well said sir.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 0:52:52 GMT
I am slightly bewildered... I totally agree with a post from redux. Well said sir. Oh my.. we agree. I have to check... did hell just freeze over? (kidding, of course).
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Post by brfritos on Oct 16, 2017 10:52:38 GMT
It would be so much better if Ryder just enter the Tempest, then gives the location to travel. Just like in MET. Well, ME1, anyway. ME2 works like ME:A, doesn't it? And in ME3 the ship only docks at the Citadel so it never comes up. And that's why ME1 is still superior. Jokes aside, you don't have a issue how this works? For reading a simple e-mail the ship leave the planet and sometimes show a lenghty cutscene? Then the e-mail is about something you have to do in the same planet and again for returning to it you have sometimes the same lenghty animation? It wouldn't be a problem if I could skip the cutscene. But I can't. And like you pointed out, the Tempest are always docked at ports. I appreciate the effort and work the devs put in the cutscenes, approaching Elaaden is very awesome (three moons orbiting a gas giant with one of them capable of sustaining life! ). But after the fifth time it really grows old and becomes an annoyance. No, you can't. The only game that put a resemblance of a economy was the first ME (and it was a bad one, since we are talking about it). ME2 scrapped the economy out and in ME3 the only way to gain money is by doing missions. In MEA you don't have ways to buy stuff in the beginning and the only way to acquire materials, components and minerals is by chasing them. The other way is to fight kett or angara and acquiring salvage, but this doesn't defeat the purpose of the matter? Specially because when doing so you always run into wildlife and end with tons of organic components? And usually when doing this you gain tons of common weapons along the salvage and by break them down you have the materials you need, so you actually don't need to buy things. Except for the Nomad of course. Heck, Elaaden has "scavengers"? Ryder and the Ai are scavengers! I really gained more money and resources by picking the cryo pod that shows hidden stashes in the maps, you find tons of good stuff in them
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Post by The Twilight God on Oct 16, 2017 11:12:55 GMT
Bioware never learns. Never admits wrongdoing. They don't have to learn. Biodrones will forever continue to shell out cash and blame EA for all their fuckups. It's a never-ending cycle.
Well... I guess it'll end if EA puts a fork in them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 12:17:14 GMT
No, you can't. The only game that put a resemblance of a economy was the first ME (and it was a bad one, since we are talking about it). ME2 scrapped the economy out and in ME3 the only way to gain money is by doing missions. In MEA you don't have ways to buy stuff in the beginning and the only way to acquire materials, components and minerals is by chasing them. The other way is to fight kett or angara and acquiring salvage, but this doesn't defeat the purpose of the matter? Specially because when doing so you always run into wildlife and end with tons of organic components? And usually when doing this you gain tons of common weapons along the salvage and by break them down you have the materials you need, so you actually don't need to buy things. Except for the Nomad of course. Heck, Elaaden has "scavengers"? Ryder and the Ai are scavengers! I really gained more money and resources by picking the cryo pod that shows hidden stashes in the maps, you find tons of good stuff in them In ME:A, there are lots of things right "in the beginning" that you can't do that you can do later. You acquire these abilities as you work your way through the "tutorials." The first merchant you have access to on the Nexus, sells some basic weapons and, as I recall, some consumables as well. You can't craft anything until you open up the Research Center on Tempest (by talking with Liam), but you can buy minerals and bio materials on Tempest right then (you probably don't have enough money though unless you got really fortunate with drops on Habitat 7). On Eos, the moment you talk to Clancy, you can buy from him. He will "disappear" for a time immediately after that conversation, but reappears at his shuttle after you leave Site 1 and then come back to the area. He sells the consumables including Cobra RPGs. He will restock his inventory each time to save and reload your game. You can also board the Tempest and leave Eos and then re-land on Eos as many times as you like before completing the vault and starting Podromos and, I think, that also causes Clancy to restock his inventory. Yes, you can break down stuff to get materials and not have to buy anything... You can also sell those weapons to get money to buy things. The choices are yours to make. That's what I mean by having options. So, you do have the ability to buy different things early on. In my most recent playthrough, I was having a lot of difficulty getting by the remnant fight at the second monolith (insanity... and I've not got the best reflexes any more), so I did kill a lot of bugs, sold the guts, and bought a Cobra from Clancy... which got me past that fight. However, none of it is really convenient or conveniently located though... and that's my criticism. I don't see what the issue is about placing the merchants away from the FT points. In my mind, I should be able to FT and just turn around and find a merchant who sells everything. My question is, Is this a loading issue or what?
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August 2016
hawkeyegod
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 16, 2017 13:25:29 GMT
Will they learn from this? Yes.
Will the takeaway be what was needed? Probably not.
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6,168
The Hype Himself
Proud Sponsor of Swingin' Seamen Charter Fishing: My Live Bait Will Catch Your Fish Every Time!
4,023
August 2016
hawkeyegod
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 16, 2017 13:28:21 GMT
I've never really got this "spineless" meme.If anything, I kind of liked getting away from Shepard's bombast. Especially since renegade Shepard doesn’t seem to recieve consequences for his actions. What consequence is there to be had?
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Elvis Has Left The Building
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Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,073
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 16, 2017 14:34:38 GMT
Lol. A learning lesson. As opposed to some other kind of lesson.
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Jun 25, 2018 17:28:49 GMT
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stealthfox94
Be yourself
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Jan 14, 2017 17:48:01 GMT
January 2017
stealthfox94
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Post by stealthfox94 on Oct 19, 2017 2:22:51 GMT
Doubt it. EA usually takes 1 step forward and 2 steps back. They might learn something from this debacle but will probably screw up in a different way.
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