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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 30, 2017 13:19:02 GMT
....and bugs were the only things wrong with the game? This has been a theme way before no dlc was confirmed. A number of people here (and I am sure there are many others outside of BSN) acts like if MEA was launched in the v1.10 state, then there would be little criticism of the game.
To me that is just simply being in denial that the overall quality of MEA was NOT on par with what you'd expect from Bioware. Yes, bugs and animations were the most visible and thus the easiest to make videos, gifs, and memes about, but those were NOT the only things wrong with MEA. Myself and many people had a problem with:
- Story
- Story pacing/narrative
- Uninteresting characters (watch part 3 of Boss Attacks video)
- Dull open world
- Bad side quest design
- Cant control squadmates combat abilities
- Ryder not as interesting and couldnt roleplay as Ryder the same way you could with all other Bioware heros. (watch part 3 of Boss Attacks video)
- Villain
- Over use of jokes/humor in serious situations
- The Asari clone army
- Only 2 Andromeda races vs 5 MW races. Andromeda should have felt more alien.
- And much more that I know I am probably forgetting about
Point is, MEA had a lot of problems than just animations and even in 1.10, all of the above problems still exist. But yet some people refuse to see that. They want to believe that:
#1 Nothing wad wrong with the launch outside of Bioware haters yelling and making a big deal about animations.
#2 By 1.10, all of the problems with MEA were fixed and people should give the game another chance.
I accept that for many people MEA was a great experience and not much wad wrong with the game. I can accept that. However, they need to accept that for many others, outside of animations, the game was not fun and not the quality expected from Bioware. No patches could have fixed that.
So I say again, for the people that didnt enjoy MEA, bugs and animations were one thing but there were a slew of other non-patchable problems with the game. Many of the reviews even mentioned this. So why is there still people claiming that 1.10 fixed everything?
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Post by henkiedepost on Aug 30, 2017 13:24:12 GMT
I have the feeling that this is going to be a great discussion.... ;p
Even though I agree that there is much more wrong with the game than solely the animations. My biggest gripe still lies with the way Bio handles Open Worlds. It just isn't their strong suit, just like narrative isn't Bethesda's.
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Post by mannyray on Aug 30, 2017 13:34:24 GMT
Well, to watch all the clickbait youtube screaming, you'd think it was at least one of the three most important. And given the childlike reverence given these clickbait mongers and the fact at times it drowned out the valid harsh criticisms about the game at launch, among other flaws, it's not surprising.
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Post by Sondergaard on Aug 30, 2017 13:37:28 GMT
So I say again, for the people that didnt enjoy MEA, bugs and animations were one thing but there were a slew of other non-patchable problems with the game. Many of the reviews even mentioned this. So why is there still people claiming that 1.10 fixed everything? I agree with you completely but much of what you say is subjective. Some people loved Ryder, the story, the companions, the combat etc. I didn't (they were bland, formulaic pap) but others did and that's fair enough. What's irritating is when you disagree with them and state that you didn't, for example, find the companions engaging or interesting and are immediately labelled a 'hater' rather than someone with a different point of view. What is doubly irritating is when these people claim to love the OT AND Andromeda. Personally I don't see how both can be true but, again, that's subjective. The asari clone army isn't subjective though. It's a fucking disgrace but you still get people coming out and defending it, including someone who claimed it was deliberate and all would be revealed at some undetermined point in the future. |
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Post by Sondergaard on Aug 30, 2017 13:42:52 GMT
And just to add that I found the animations irritating but I've never played a BioWare game for the animations. If I'd found the characters and story engaging I wouldn't have given a toss about them.
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 30, 2017 13:52:59 GMT
Well, to watch all the clickbait youtube screaming, you'd think it was at least one of the three most important. And given the childlike reverence given these clickbait mongers and the fact at times it drowned out the valid harsh criticisms about the game at launch, among other flaws, it's not surprising. But that still does not mean that animations and bugs were the end all be all for MEA. Like I said, read the reviews and many of them point to other problems as to why they reviewed the game so low. |
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 30, 2017 13:55:52 GMT
So I say again, for the people that didnt enjoy MEA, bugs and animations were one thing but there were a slew of other non-patchable problems with the game. Many of the reviews even mentioned this. So why is there still people claiming that 1.10 fixed everything? I agree with you completely but much of what you say is subjective. Some people loved Ryder, the story, the companions, the combat etc. I didn't (they were bland, formulaic pap) but others did and that's fair enough. What's irritating is when you disagree with them and state that you didn't, for example, find the companions engaging or interesting and are immediately labelled a 'hater' rather than someone with a different point of view. What is doubly irritating is when these people claim to love the OT AND Andromeda. Personally I don't see how both can be true but, again, that's subjective. The asari clone army isn't subjective though. It's a fucking disgrace but you still get people coming out and defending it, including someone who claimed it was deliberate and all would be revealed at some undetermined point in the future. I agree 100% that my gripes with MEA is subjective. My point is that while our gripes are subjective, they are still gripes that shows that 1.10 still would not have solved our problems, which is the very basis of this thread. |
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Post by mannyray on Aug 30, 2017 14:02:49 GMT
Well, to watch all the clickbait youtube screaming, you'd think it was at least one of the three most important. And given the childlike reverence given these clickbait mongers and the fact at times it drowned out the valid harsh criticisms about the game at launch, among other flaws, it's not surprising. But that still does not mean that animations and bugs were the end all be all for MEA. Like I said, read the reviews and many of them point to other problems as to why they reviewed the game so low. Yeah but who screamed the loudest and about what? |
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Post by Sondergaard on Aug 30, 2017 14:14:11 GMT
I agree 100% that my gripes with MEA is subjective. My point is that while our gripes are subjective, they are still gripes that shows that 1.10 still would not have solved our problems, which is the very basis of this thread. Yeah, I know. I'm agreeing with you and trying to explain the attitude of those that think Andromeda v1.10 is the dog's bollocks. I think they're wrong but, apart from the asari, I can't objectively say that's the case. They just have different standards. Hopefully they're in a minority and the next BW game will be more to my liking (excluding Anthem). If not, DA4 is going to be light hearted romp around Thedas with a group of extremely irritating millennials. |
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Post by Sondergaard on Aug 30, 2017 14:15:54 GMT
But that still does not mean that animations and bugs were the end all be all for MEA. Like I said, read the reviews and many of them point to other problems as to why they reviewed the game so low. Yeah but who screamed the loudest and about what? If the story and characters had been any good it would have risen above the animations fiasco. As it is it had nothing to fall back on. |
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Post by ozzie on Aug 30, 2017 14:16:21 GMT
Given how quick the issue was resolved and what we have seen since with EA/Bioware regarding this games support and development, I don't think we can rule out that the animations were intentionally left janky to draw the eye away from the games deeper flaws. Now where did I put my tinfoil hat  |
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 30, 2017 14:18:07 GMT
But that still does not mean that animations and bugs were the end all be all for MEA. Like I said, read the reviews and many of them point to other problems as to why they reviewed the game so low. Yeah but who screamed the loudest and about what? Who screamed the loudest does not matter. I already said that the animations and bugs were the most obvious and easiest to make memes about. But that does not equate to animations/bugs being the only problem. Again, please read some of the reviews and you will be enlightened with the fact that animations and bugs was just one rock in a bag full of rocks of problems with MEA. You know this and so do many others, but I guess it is easier to say that 1.10 fixed everything rather than coming to reality that MEA had many other issues. By using animations and bugs, it sort of gives supporters of MEA silver lining or vindication that nothing was wrong with MEA and thr things that were wrong were all fixed by 1.10. Thus allowing them to believe that any further criticisms of thr game are unjustified. Its like my wife leaving me cause I am an alcoholic and abusive and has no job. After she leaves me I then get a job but that still doesn't take away the fact that I am stilk an alcoholic and abusive. That problem hasnt been addressed. |
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Post by maximusarael020 on Aug 30, 2017 15:06:49 GMT
The better question is: why do some people think that their opinion on story, pacing, humor, quality of squadmates, etc, is fact? The thing about animations and bugs are that they are not subjective. Bugs are bugs. Bad animations are bad. Quality of story and characters is entirely subjective. I thought story, characters, and pacing were good. So does that make me more right than you? Equally as right? Less right? It's none of those, because we are both entitled to our opinion on quality of writing. Some people enjoyed the humor/lighter tone, others didn't. That doesn't make the game inherently good or bad. Just different strokes for different folks. Ya dig?
The reason people say the game would have been criticized far less if it launched at 1.10 state is because 99% of the complaints and memes that were all over YouTube and the like were of animations and bugs. "My face is tired" and the grimacing Sara were everywhere. Those are easy things to make fun of. It's a lot harder to get a hate campaign going based on "I didn't like the story."
Would there still have been criticisms of Andromeda? Assuredly. Would they have set the internet on fire like the animations and bugs did? No.
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Post by sageoflife on Aug 30, 2017 15:12:00 GMT
Maybe because everything you listed is much more subjective.
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Post by ozzie on Aug 30, 2017 15:17:27 GMT
The better question is: why do some people think that their opinion on story, pacing, humor, quality of squadmates, etc, is fact? The thing about animations and bugs are that they are not subjective. Bugs are bugs. Bad animations are bad. Quality of story and characters is entirely subjective. Problems with a story can be both subjective and objective. The problems you list are subjective ones, however there are many topics on this forum that go into the objective problems with the stories logic and consistency. |
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 30, 2017 15:21:49 GMT
The better question is: why do some people think that their opinion on story, pacing, humor, quality of squadmates, etc, is fact? The thing about animations and bugs are that they are not subjective. Bugs are bugs. Bad animations are bad. Quality of story and characters is entirely subjective. I thought story, characters, and pacing were good. So does that make me more right than you? Equally as right? Less right? It's none of those, because we are both entitled to our opinion on quality of writing. Some people enjoyed the humor/lighter tone, others didn't. That doesn't make the game inherently good or bad. Just different strokes for different folks. Ya dig? The reason people say the game would have been criticized far less if it launched at 1.10 state is because 99% of the complaints and memes that were all over YouTube and the like were of animations and bugs. "My face is tired" and the grimacing Sara were everywhere. Those are easy things to make fun of. It's a lot harder to get a hate campaign going based on "I didn't like the story." Would there still have been criticisms of Andromeda? Assuredly. Would they have set the internet on fire like the animations and bugs did? No. 1) I never said it was universial fact, I said that for many, the story and other items sucked. This is a consumer driven industry and if their opinions is that they dont like the product, who cares if it is fact or not, their opinion is driving their decision making which effects sales and product perception. 2) As was pointed out earlier, if the other areas of MEA were on point, it would have been able to weather the storm. Take myself for example, I didnt play the game until around a week after launch. By then I seen the memes and gifs but I didnt care cause I know Bioware excels at story and characters. Sadly for myself and many others, even the story and characters were lacking and 1.10 is thus irrelevant. 3) EA and Bioware probably knows this. They probably know that there were more problems besides bugs and animations which they knew could not be fixed with patches. I mean, why else would they jump ship? MEA was a sinking Titanic and had many problems beyond animations. |
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Post by samhain444 on Aug 30, 2017 15:23:50 GMT
Ahhh, a fresh topic...
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 30, 2017 15:28:04 GMT
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 30, 2017 15:29:39 GMT
Maybe because everything you listed is much more subjective. True, but it becomes a problem for EA and Bioware if a large chunk of their player base shares those same subjective opinions. I wouldnt say the customer is always right, but if many people share a certain view of a product, it would be unwise for the salesperson to simply say, "your complaint is subjective. Move along..." |
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Post by sageoflife on Aug 30, 2017 15:37:04 GMT
Maybe because everything you listed is much more subjective. True, but it becomes a problem for EA and Bioware if a large chunk of their player base shares those same subjective opinions. I wouldnt say the customer is always right, but if many people share a certain view of a product, it would be unwise for the salesperson to simply say, "your complaint is subjective. Move along..." But do a large chunk of the players think that? You said yourself that everyone is acting like the animations were the biggest problem. |
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Post by samhain444 on Aug 30, 2017 15:37:08 GMT
I have in the past...nothing has changed either way. It's been 5 months but I guess we have to talk about something. The time I spend focused on this game is on my console playing it...you spend an equivalent amount of time on message board about a game you claim sucks and isn't worth your time. Seems like there would be better use of time but to each his own. Now, back to Meridian... |
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 30, 2017 15:46:55 GMT
True, but it becomes a problem for EA and Bioware if a large chunk of their player base shares those same subjective opinions. I wouldnt say the customer is always right, but if many people share a certain view of a product, it would be unwise for the salesperson to simply say, "your complaint is subjective. Move along..." But do a large chunk of the players think that? You said yourself that everyone is acting like the animations were the biggest problem. No, I said that many of the MEA supporters were acting like animations were the only problem. |
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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 30, 2017 15:48:27 GMT
I have in the past...nothing has changed either way. It's been 5 months but I guess we have to talk about something. The time I spend focused on this game is on my console playing it...you spend an equivalent amount of time on message board about a game you claim sucks and isn't worth your time. Seems like there would be better use of time but to each his own. Now, back to Meridian... Actually I spend more time playing Gwent. |
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Post by samhain444 on Aug 30, 2017 15:51:06 GMT
I have in the past...nothing has changed either way. It's been 5 months but I guess we have to talk about something. The time I spend focused on this game is on my console playing it...you spend an equivalent amount of time on message board about a game you claim sucks and isn't worth your time. Seems like there would be better use of time but to each his own. Now, back to Meridian... Actually I spend more time playing Gwent. Well, that's good to hear, healthier at least. |
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Post by maximusarael020 on Aug 30, 2017 15:54:28 GMT
The better question is: why do some people think that their opinion on story, pacing, humor, quality of squadmates, etc, is fact? The thing about animations and bugs are that they are not subjective. Bugs are bugs. Bad animations are bad. Quality of story and characters is entirely subjective. I thought story, characters, and pacing were good. So does that make me more right than you? Equally as right? Less right? It's none of those, because we are both entitled to our opinion on quality of writing. Some people enjoyed the humor/lighter tone, others didn't. That doesn't make the game inherently good or bad. Just different strokes for different folks. Ya dig? The reason people say the game would have been criticized far less if it launched at 1.10 state is because 99% of the complaints and memes that were all over YouTube and the like were of animations and bugs. "My face is tired" and the grimacing Sara were everywhere. Those are easy things to make fun of. It's a lot harder to get a hate campaign going based on "I didn't like the story." Would there still have been criticisms of Andromeda? Assuredly. Would they have set the internet on fire like the animations and bugs did? No. 1) I never said it was universial fact, I said that for many, the story and other items sucked. This is a consumer driven industry and if their opinions is that they dont like the product, who cares if it is fact or not, their opinion is driving their decision making which effects sales and product perception. 2) As was pointed out earlier, if the other areas of MEA were on point, it would have been able to weather the storm. Take myself for example, I didnt play the game until around a week after launch. By then I seen the memes and gifs but I didnt care cause I know Bioware excels at story and characters. Sadly for myself and many others, even the story and characters were lacking and 1.10 is thus irrelevant. 3) EA and Bioware probably knows this. They probably know that there were more problems besides bugs and animations which they knew could not be fixed with patches. I mean, why else would they jump ship? MEA was a sinking Titanic and had many problems beyond animations. I don't think anyone here has ever said that animations are the only problem. But they were the most visual and readily apparent. Without bugs and animation issues, the game probably would have got that 8.5 or so rating that the groups tested before launch. Still lower than the OT, but very respectable. Some reviewers said story and charters were meh. Some said they were good. Basically ALL called out animations and glitches as issues. So at 1.10 would it have sold better? Almost assuredly. Scored higher? Of course. Would it be perfect? No, of course not. There are always issues. But the reception would have been a lot better. Now if you are just arguing against those who said bugs and animations were the ONLY issues, well I guess that's not me, or really anyone I've seen post on the forums. From what I've seen everyone has been able to list some faults with the game, so you might be arguing against an imaginary audience. |
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